Ok, I made my bonus feat Orc slayer. I think it goes well with the background.
I went ahead and stuck with forest for my favored terrain, I like the fit, it hampers the bonus's on the skills a bit but it adds flavor nicely.
and I will happily work toward the 12 hp deficit the dice have set up for me. are the months ooc or Ic?
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Ok, I made my bonus feat Orc slayer. I think it goes well with the background.
I went ahead and stuck with forest for my favored terrain, I like the fit, it hampers the bonus's on the skills a bit but it adds flavor nicely.
and I will happily work toward the 12 hp deficit the dice have set up for me. are the months ooc or Ic?
Months in game time. That means that your character had more than enough time to train for hps and reach maximum.
I knew eating those Wheaties would pay off!...you know that or cannibalizing my foes to gain their strength.
Exactly.I think he was referring to Chops' unarmed attacks. That's what I was thinking of. If a character with armored spikes can knee an opponent while wielding a weapon two handed, I don't see why one with Improved Unarmed strike couldn't.
nightflier, I was wondering if you could address this since the subject has creeped back up while you and Kiron are working out his character. I haven't envisioned this as Chops fighting style, so I don't care that much, but it seems to me that the mechanics are the same so it might be a nice thing to utilize.
actually I was wondering if I could go with my bite for my secondary attack and the two handed V for my first. I took quickdraw for the first combat feat. that bite is nasty with Kiron's str in the mix 1d4+7.
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as far as sharing styles and what not, I'm not one to mind some overlap, In fact I think it makes sense to a certain extent ecspecially as a group bonds. why wouldn't a pair of fighters take tips off of one another?
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nightflier, I was wondering if you could address this since the subject has creeped back up while you and Kiron are working out his character. I haven't envisioned this as Chops fighting style, so I don't care that much, but it seems to me that the mechanics are the same so it might be a nice thing to utilize.Exactly.I think he was referring to Chops' unarmed attacks. That's what I was thinking of. If a character with armored spikes can knee an opponent while wielding a weapon two handed, I don't see why one with Improved Unarmed strike couldn't.
Sure. But it's 2.15 AM here and I'm going to bed. Tomorrow.
Sure. But it's 2.15 AM here and I'm going to bed. Tomorrow.
Dude. You must work some late hours. Sleep well.
I work a 12 hour shift from 6p to 6a. so I feel your pain.
I used to work some hellish hours in the Marines and vowed to find a career with good hours. As a teacher, I have some hella good hours. I bust my ass the whole time; but I make sure my work is done, go home at about 3:30 on average, and have the rest of the afternoon and evening to enjoy myself.
its not so bad, its a panama schedule so I only work 7 out of 14 days in two weeks.
I started a journal for Kiron's history and the story that brings him current to where you guys are. the first post is up.
A stir in the Shadows- Whitemoon's Revenge
there is the link if any of you are interested.
its not so bad, its a panama schedule so I only work 7 out of 14 days in two weeks.
I started a journal for Kiron's history and the story that brings him current to where you guys are. the first post is up.
A stir in the Shadows- Whitemoon's Revenge
there is the link if any of you are interested.
put the link in your character sheet so we can find it easy as the game progresses.
good Idea. the link will be there in a moment.
actually I was wondering if I could go with my bite for my secondary attack and the two handed V for my first. I took quickdraw for the first combat feat. that bite is nasty with Kiron's str in the mix 1d4+7.
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as far as sharing styles and what not, I'm not one to mind some overlap, In fact I think it makes sense to a certain extent ecspecially as a group bonds. why wouldn't a pair of fighters take tips off of one another?
Technically, I think that's part of the multi-attack tree (which is for natural weapons what two weapon fighting is to manufactured ones.)
But, the multi-attack rules have always been both confusing and a little stupid. My 2vp is that if the armor spikes-2-w fighting trick is allowed, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to sub it for a bite too.
On the other hand, we exacerbate the balance issue.
Normal 2-w fighting is balanced against 2-h weapons by giving full strength damage on one hand and 1/2 str damage on the other. (feats fix this). 2-h weapons just do strx1.5 statistically it's about the same. A 2-w fighter is going to have more chances to hit, but do less average damage.
With the 2-h weapon/armor spikes (or whatever natural weapon you happen to have), the balance gets weighted. Your main attack gets strx1.5, and your "offhand attack" gets full str.
With 2-h weapon/Bite, it gets even worse. Bites (most of them, including the Kiron's) give Strx1.5 damage. Both attacks get t-h weapon damage, which makes it statistically twice as good as a normal fighting style.
Nightflier, My recommendation would be that we make up a feat for Kiron to take that would allow him to gain his full bite damage when it's used as a secondary attack form. That pulls things a bit back towards sanity (he's still going to be far and away the highest damage dealer in the party, but given what he is, that makes some sense. Interestingly, Pete, at about a tenth his size, will be just about keeping up with him, and will probably have the same attack bonus.)
On a related note, Kiron, if you're looking at making yourself a 2-h fighter-type, you don't want a Crafted Vardatch. They sacrifice damage for crit-range, which won't pay off statistically until you have access to Improved Crit.
What you want is a Greater Vardatch. It's the 2-handed version of the regular vardatch. All the stats are the same, except it deals 2d8 damage.
Yup, I acctually grabbed that in my gear section. I am cool with augmenting my attack's however nessacary, to be perfectly honest I'd be ok with going the ranged route and just fighting with the Greater V. I just think it would be nice to get some use out of the bite beyond...ah poop my sword isn't in my hands.
I am going the great cleave route with Feats, and I am going the evasion route with the wildlander traits.
Yup, I acctually grabbed that in my gear section. I am cool with augmenting my attack's however nessacary, to be perfectly honest I'd be ok with going the ranged route and just fighting with the Greater V. I just think it would be nice to get some use out of the bite beyond...ah poop my sword isn't in my hands.
I am going the great cleave route with Feats, and I am going the evasion route with the wildlander traits.
Yup, I acctually grabbed that in my gear section. I am cool with augmenting my attack's however nessacary, to be perfectly honest I'd be ok with going the ranged route and just fighting with the Greater V. I just think it would be nice to get some use out of the bite beyond...ah poop my sword isn't in my hands.
I am going the great cleave route with Feats, and I am going the evasion route with the wildlander traits.
Regardless of how the two-weapon thing works out, If you're liking the Cleave tree, you might like This Prestige Class
LoL! Adam Sandler is good stuff particularly the early stuff.
and my goodness supreme cleave is amazing!
I like it, but we shall have to wait and see if that is the route I end up going, I might stick to wildlander all the way.
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Regardless of how the two-weapon thing works out, If you're liking the Cleave tree, you might like This Prestige ClassYup, I acctually grabbed that in my gear section. I am cool with augmenting my attack's however nessacary, to be perfectly honest I'd be ok with going the ranged route and just fighting with the Greater V. I just think it would be nice to get some use out of the bite beyond...ah poop my sword isn't in my hands.
I am going the great cleave route with Feats, and I am going the evasion route with the wildlander traits.
That's some sessy orcness
oh you!
LoL! Adam Sandler is good stuff particularly the early stuff.
and my goodness supreme cleave is amazing!
I like it, but we shall have to wait and see if that is the route I end up going, I might stick to wildlander all the way.
another sound argument for!
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its not so bad, its a panama schedule so I only work 7 out of 14 days in two weeks.
I started a journal for Kiron's history and the story that brings him current to where you guys are. the first post is up.
A stir in the Shadows- Whitemoon's Revenge
there is the link if any of you are interested.
You get 1 Fate Point for starting a journal.
*puts his point in his pocket* Thanks!
I work as translator, so I work from home. That way I can keep my own hours. Nice, right?Dude. You must work some late hours. Sleep well.
Sure. But it's 2.15 AM here and I'm going to bed. Tomorrow.
That sounds perfect actually.
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nightflier, I was wondering if you could address this since the subject has creeped back up while you and Kiron are working out his character. I haven't envisioned this as Chops fighting style, so I don't care that much, but it seems to me that the mechanics are the same so it might be a nice thing to utilize.Exactly.I think he was referring to Chops' unarmed attacks. That's what I was thinking of. If a character with armored spikes can knee an opponent while wielding a weapon two handed, I don't see why one with Improved Unarmed strike couldn't.
So, you essentially want to use one weapon two handed as your primary and unarmed attack as your off hand attack? Right? I don't see why not.
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actually I was wondering if I could go with my bite for my secondary attack and the two handed V for my first. I took quickdraw for the first combat feat. that bite is nasty with Kiron's str in the mix 1d4+7.
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as far as sharing styles and what not, I'm not one to mind some overlap, In fact I think it makes sense to a certain extent ecspecially as a group bonds. why wouldn't a pair of fighters take tips off of one another?
You can use your bite as secondary attack, but you can not choose worg as your bonded animal, since worgs are magical beasts. Replace it with a wolf.
So, you essentially want to use one weapon two handed as your primary and unarmed attack as your off hand attack? Right? I don't see why not.nightflier, I was wondering if you could address this since the subject has creeped back up while you and Kiron are working out his character. I haven't envisioned this as Chops fighting style, so I don't care that much, but it seems to me that the mechanics are the same so it might be a nice thing to utilize.Exactly.I think he was referring to Chops' unarmed attacks. That's what I was thinking of. If a character with armored spikes can knee an opponent while wielding a weapon two handed, I don't see why one with Improved Unarmed strike couldn't.
Honestly, although I can't find the thread that this was discussed in, I would put myself in the camp of "this is too powerful." But, in this campaign where we are all more powerful and an orc with a 21 strength might be using it I figure I would raise my hand and say, "Me too."
So thanks, I will adjust my sheet.
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Well, I must say that I don't really get all that "too powerful" business. No matter how powerful characters are, GM is more powerful still. And the luck of the roll always plays its part. For instance, when you were fighting that bear-rat it was a hair away from TPK and two characters died. Sky really died - I rolled attacks on him with my dice since for some reason Paizo's roller was not working. And this is Midnight and the bad guys don't play fair. You will always be outnumbered and outgunned, so to speak, and death will always be just a breath away, so I don't really mind powerful characters.
Well, I must say that I don't really get all that "too powerful" business. No matter how powerful characters are, GM is more powerful still. And the luck of the roll always plays its part. For instance, when you were fighting that bear-rat it was a hair away from TPK and two characters died. Sky really died - I rolled attacks on him with my dice since for some reason Paizo's roller was not working. And this is Midnight and the bad guys don't play fair. You will always be outnumbered and outgunned, so to speak, and death will always be just a breath away, so I don't really mind powerful characters.
I concur, on all counts.
I bring it up because I have a fairly good handle on the mechanics behind the why's and hows of the game. The fact is, using a bite/two-handed weapon combo is more powerful. I don't mind that, but some people really have problems with the idea of power balance. We've already lost one player to that, and I feel that it was my fault. I'm probably just being gun-shy these days, and trying to head off possible conflicts at the pass.
Why I love midnight:
When I first ran midnight it was with a bunch of really hard-core powergamers. I encouraged them to try out all the broken loopholes that any sane GM vetoes. They were ecstatic. I spent 4 sessions delving really deep into their backgrounds and forcing some tough Role Play decisions out of them. No combat at all. barely any roles. I made them really, really care about the characters as more than an impressive stack of numbers.
Then a Legate showed up with 6 orcs to investigate what was going on in the town.
They tried to hide, so the Legate started publicly executing people. (He just used Augery to find out if That Guy had contact with the resistance.)
Predictably, the PC's intervened.
And all died.
I'll never forget the look on the fighters face when I told him his attack total of 18 against one of the orcs missed, and that the orc did 15 points of damage with a one-handed weapon.
The rogue, who survived and ran, couldn't figure out how they tracked him so unerringly (eagle astirax, keeping watch from above), and when he went to his safehouse to try to get help, he was killed by one of the people I'd built up as his oldest friend. Not because he was a traitor, but because the friend wouldn't risk the collapse of the entire local resistance to save one idiot who openly fought against an investigator.
So they made new characters. I told them that I hadn't even increased the challenge rating of the base "legate with guards" encounter, but that I played mean because of how they had made their characters.
They deliberately held back this time, thinking that I would cut them some slack.
Their new characters were resistance fighters sent to investigate what had happened with their previous characters.
They managed to do things the smart way. They poisoned the orcs, and killed the legate while he slept.
Then left town.
The legate's superior showed up a week later, brought by his underling's astirax. He raised the first legate from the dead, got the full report, then raised the entire original party from the dead as well.
The overpowered original PC's became the most hated and feared recurring NPC's of that game.
As long as all characters are powerful, then I don't see a problem. It is when one player character is clearly more dominant than another. The THW + Armor spikes/bite/unarmed strike is fine here. In general though, it pretty much makes the Weapon Finesse/TWF wielding light weapons irrelevant.
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As long as all characters are powerful, then I don't see a problem. It is when one player character is clearly more dominant than another. The THW + Armor spikes/bite/unarmed strike is fine here. In general though, it pretty much makes the Weapon Finesse/TWF wielding light weapons irrelevant.
Unless you have Weapon Bond trait combined with Dexterity.
As long as all characters are powerful, then I don't see a problem. It is when one player character is clearly more dominant than another. The THW + Armor spikes/bite/unarmed strike is fine here. In general though, it pretty much makes the Weapon Finesse/TWF wielding light weapons irrelevant.Unless you have Weapon Bond trait combined with Dexterity.
Yep.
Ok,no biggy, I don't want to come in as show stealer or anything. I just keep hearing how deadly the game is and figure the more stuff we kill, the less stuff that kills us. So I'll just go the ranged route. Making the g vardatch my attack. And the ranged improving on an areahe lacks.
Ok,no biggy, I don't want to come in as show stealer or anything. I just keep hearing how deadly the game is and figure the more stuff we kill, the less stuff that kills us. So I'll just go the ranged route. Making the g vardatch my attack. And the ranged improving on an areahe lacks.
Dude, I hope I didn't say anything to sway anything. As far as I'm concerned, we were just talking about feats and mechanics. I used the Kiron's Strength merely as an example, and judging from that last encounter, we really could have used a big ole orc with a big ole sword and some big ole teeth.
Nah, I just want to avoid what could become an issue, In all honestly I'm good either way. I just want to Rp. I don't mind being min max of doom, or bottom of the barrel under dog. what I don't want is to cause descent in the party or trouble. so I will go a little bit more towards the middle and have him work on a path that he could use the practice in. it could come in handy and makes him a bit more well rounded.
so, I'm going to swap out quick draw for precise shot.
as far as the bite for the armor spikes goes, I didn't want to do exactly the same thing and didn't really see him using spiked armor, but as I said no biggy at all.
now if I can just stop rocking back and forth, waiting to get into the game.
Well, this is my first pbp, and only third campaign...ever. The RP aspect of this game has been great. I have tried other pbp's on here, but none of them have been as good as this one. It seems that if there are issues, we get them out in the open, and then figure them out, and then continue on better for it. Only one guy had any real problems, and I thought his character was awesome so I don't see where he was coming from.
Besides, I imagine if any of us were "over-powerful", based on nightflier's posts, I believe he would knock that character down a peg somehow.
Cool, and I trust that nightflier woould settle it if it needed settling, but if it is coming up before I am even in the game, might as well stem it now.
=D
Kiron, you can freely chose your weapon style. Don't concern yourself with power issues. If you want to go with melee type character, than do so. Anyway, that fits your character better than the ranged combat.
I agree. What kind of slavering monstrous beast uses a bow and arrow? ;)
I dunno, I have never favored the two weapon track and if I am going the cleave route then once I hit great cleave it'd actually be worse to drop the to hit in favor of a second attack. quick draw is nice but the rest of the path is kind of pointless unless you are keeping the two weapons in your hands all the time. now, if I went with two vardatches it would make more sense.
*shrugs*
I think I'll stick with ranged.
Kiron, you can freely chose your weapon style. Don't concern yourself with power issues. If you want to go with melee type character, than do so. Anyway, that fits your character better than the ranged combat.I agree. What kind of slavering monstrous beast uses a bow and arrow? ;)
lol, he is still a ranger after all
touche' sir.
Gilian, I noticed you didn't have cure minor wounds on your spell list. Because you're the party healer I think it would be a good idea to ask Nightflier if you could switch one of your spells. If he says no or you don't want to that's fine, you could always learn it from Anvinder.
Also if you want to continue being an awesome healer there is a feat in the Complete Divine called Augment Healing. Prereq: heal 4 ranks, this was back in 3.5 edition so 1 rank now. Benefit: Any healing spell you cast gets a +2 bonus.
Cure Minor Wounds isn't a Pathfinder spell, though. Can we still take it?
Cure Minor Wounds isn't a Pathfinder spell, though. Can we still take it?
I'ts not a pathfinder spell, but it is a Midnight spell. Plus both Solvistania and Anvinder have it so I would say yes.
nightflier
Eirik Baldur
