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Not much announced, but Michael Sayre mentioned:
-Playtest starting Sept 1 with 2 brand new classes
—Neither class has been in Pathfinder before
-It will be a part of a game spanning event that will involve LO, novels, rulebook, the AP line, and I think even the society.
-It will involve a fight among the deities. At least 1 of the core 20 deities will not survive the event
Edit: oh, one more clue. James Caase and Michael Sayre designed the classes, and Sayre promised that we would see a lot of them in the classes. Make of that what you will.
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Oh god they're gonna murder Aroden! Again!
So we will get another Eye of Abendego or another similar disaster in some other place of Golarion?
This is absolutely insane
Well. We certainly didn't see that coming.
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Oh we will get a Starfinder second edition using same (or similar) rules!!!
Oh we will get a Starfinder second edition using same (or similar) rules!!!
Oh, now that's shiny. A bit surprising to have it come this quickly on the tail of drift crisis, but very shiny.
...if only I could find a group to play it with.
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Really concerned about Lamashtu lol. She's my favourite, but likely the most vulnerable to being stabbed to death due to all the evil. In brighter news, Starfinder 2e is fully compatible with PF2e! You could take the aliens and technology from there and use for something like Numeria or a planet-hopping campaign!
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Alright if we're going with theorizing : Urgathoa is gonna get extra murder shanked, and then Arazni is gonna take her place in becoming the new goddess of undead, but being less awful about it.
Really concerned about Lamashtu lol. She's my favourite, but likely the most vulnerable to being stabbed to death due to all the evil. In brighter news, Starfinder 2e is fully compatible with PF2e! You could take the aliens and technology from there and use for something like Numeria or a planet-hopping campaign!Actually, new guess!
Zon-Kuthon has been...sketchy...for a while. I can see them trying to resolve his plot with Shelyn by removing both of them, and giving Shelyn a nonbinary replacement. Which would fit several goals (such as making the setting less edgy) as well as increasing divine gender diversity.
I don't know, I feel Zon-Kuthon's story has plenty of room to be expanded, and if they want to make the setting less edgy... well, Lamashtu has done some pretty sketchy stuff. But I'd love you to be right so that I can keep the mother of monsters lol.
Oh we will get a Starfinder second edition using same (or similar) rules!!!
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One thing they mentioned (I have it playing right now) is that the Starfinder and Pathfinder 2E editions will be more compatible. They mentioned that you could easily slot a Starfinder monster into a Pathfinder game and vice versa.
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One thing they mentioned (I have it playing right now) is that the Starfinder and Pathfinder 2E editions will be more compatible. They mentioned that you could easily slot a Starfinder monster into a Pathfinder game and vice versa.
Not just more, but fully compatible. You can use PF2e classes & ancestries in SF2e and vice versa, specifically mentioning a Solarian with Red Mantis dedication in a Highhelm campaign as an example.
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I wonder if this will help an Iron Gods sequel along.
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I'm glad for two new classes but not telling us what they are is painful T.T
As someone who loves starfinder as it is I'm a little nervous about a 2e, but I can see the potential in it too. Depends on what aspects survive the transition.
One thing they mentioned (I have it playing right now) is that the Starfinder and Pathfinder 2E editions will be more compatible. They mentioned that you could easily slot a Starfinder monster into a Pathfinder game and vice versa.Not just more, but fully compatible. You can use PF2e classes & ancestries in SF2e and vice versa, specifically mentioning a Solarian with Red Mantis dedication in a Highhelm campaign as an example.
Huh.
That's going to dramatically expand the pool of player options, for those campaigns that are suited for it.
"and for all of you out there who really wanted a Solarian class for PF2... well, now you can just play a Solarian in PF2."
For many homebrew tables this can be a lot interesting because if the rules really was the same it's just depends from your GM to allows it.
But for lore content this could be a little tricky. You need to explain how a starfinder character is in golarion and vice versa, you also may have some unexpected interactions with weapons but depending from the compatibility this could be fun (like a Soldier using the old magical PF2 weapons). But outside this probably will be way more fun than complicated.
As term of comparison the link I posted above have a little of Soldier class preview.
The other good point is that this diminishes a lot the number of rules to be learn. If you already play PF2 you probably can play SF2 without re-read everything again, just some specifics of your class.
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But for lore content this could be a little tricky. You need to explain how a starfinder character is in golarion and vice versa, you also may have some unexpected interactions with weapons but depending from the compatibility this could be fun (like a Soldier using the old magical PF2 weapons). But outside this probably will be way more fun than complicated.
By the look of the class preview, it should be entirely possible to, for example, enable classes and ancestries from the other system while not enabling gear... or vice versa. They have clear rules in place about the relationship between PF2 ("archaic") gear and SF2 gear.
Allowing tech armor into a standard PF2 game is probably going to wind up a bit OP, though. You might not want to do that.
Still, reflavoring is a thing. There's all sorts of ways to justify "include person with this powerset or that odd ancestry" that don't require "came from outer space/came from Lost Golarion".
I wonder if that whole divine war event and the ramifications of it might eventually lead to us getting Mythic or whatever its new form would be in 2e. Certainly sounds like a nice time to take on an Infernal Duke or something.
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One thing they mentioned (I have it playing right now) is that the Starfinder and Pathfinder 2E editions will be more compatible. They mentioned that you could easily slot a Starfinder monster into a Pathfinder game and vice versa.Not just more, but fully compatible. You can use PF2e classes & ancestries in SF2e and vice versa, specifically mentioning a Solarian with Red Mantis dedication in a Highhelm campaign as an example.Huh.
That's going to dramatically expand the pool of player options, for those campaigns that are suited for it.
"and for all of you out there who really wanted a Solarian class for PF2... well, now you can just play a Solarian in PF2."
My tinfoil hat is that Solarian is one of the upcoming playtest classes. Michael used the phrasing "neither of which has ever appeared in the Pathfinder RPG before". In a later bit, he also says that neither have appeared on the world of Golarion before. Could just mean that they are entirely net-new to Paizo's IP but I think it is fun to imagine this as a clever play on words since SF isn't PF and Golarion is missing as of Starfinder.
Otherwise, I'm not sure what we could be introducing that has never been present before. Tightly-themed classes that fill narrative gaps (like the necromancer thread) could be a neat option.
Michael also teased that he and James Case's personalities come out in the classes and iconics, so we might be able to figure some stuff out based on what they've beat the drum for in the past.
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One thing they mentioned (I have it playing right now) is that the Starfinder and Pathfinder 2E editions will be more compatible. They mentioned that you could easily slot a Starfinder monster into a Pathfinder game and vice versa.Not just more, but fully compatible. You can use PF2e classes & ancestries in SF2e and vice versa, specifically mentioning a Solarian with Red Mantis dedication in a Highhelm campaign as an example.Huh.
That's going to dramatically expand the pool of player options, for those campaigns that are suited for it.
"and for all of you out there who really wanted a Solarian class for PF2... well, now you can just play a Solarian in PF2."
My tinfoil hat is that Solarian is one of the upcoming playtest classes. Michael used the phrasing "neither of which has ever appeared in the Pathfinder RPG before". In a later bit, he also says that neither have appeared on the world of Golarion before. Could just mean that they are entirely net-new to Paizo's IP but I think it is fun to imagine this as a clever play on words since SF isn't PF and Golarion is missing as of Starfinder.
Otherwise, I'm not sure what we could be introducing that has never been present before. Tightly-themed classes that fill narrative gaps (like the necromancer thread) could be a neat option.
Michael also teased that he and James Case's personalities come out in the classes and iconics, so we might be able to figure some stuff out based on what they've beat the drum for in the past.
I believe someone at the 2e discord server (either Michael or James, I can't remember) confirmed neither of the new classes are from Starfinder. It's a separate thing from Starfinder 2e.
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I would be very sad to lose The Devil With Whom One Makes Deals.
Honestly, I use Cheliax, Geb, and Nidal when talking with my friends as examples of one of the things that makes Golarion awesome. Like, they're legit obviously evil countries that manage to be functional and make sense and even maintain decent foreign relations with at least a few of their neighbors. Nidal is literally a case of "We sold the soul of our nation to a Dark God in return for salvation from a coming apocalypse and it worked." How cool is that?
You... basically don't see that kind of stuff in other fantasy worlds.
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If it is Asmodeus, there's no shortage of candidates to take his place as ruler of Hell. Twelve stand out. Four of them have allied out of necessity, but who's to say that would last when the throne's at stake? Mephistopheles is the logical candidate, but that makes him Target #1 (Though he might be happier with being the power behind the throne anyway...) Dispatch is less evil than any other Infernal power, but that arguably makes him more dangerous. It's potentially easier to justify going to him because he's "not as bad." If the alliance between the Queens does hold, then they could play the archdevils off of each other and install one of their own. And replacing the setting's misogynist-in-chief with a woman would be delicious.
There is also the matter of the Key. THE Key. The Key to Rovagug's prison. That Key. There's nothing saying that the eventual winner would have the Key. It would be entirely in character for a dying Asmodues to toss it out into the multiverse in a final act of pure spite. Story opportunities would abound.
What if we're all looking at this the wrong way? What if it isn't one of the active deities that is getting offed, but rather one that's more, confined shall we say? My guess is one of the future APs will cap-off with the adventurers actually perma-killing Rovagug with backup and empowerment from all deities that don't want to become his meal.
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It may be linked to the war to come or not between gods, but in the starfinder 2 news it is said the iconic mystic is a devout follower ot the amalgamate deity Zon-Shelyn…
Right now my main guess for a possible divine death is Torag. Thanks to Highhelm the other dwarven deities got a nice glow up and were all fleshed out, meaning that dwarven PCs haven't got to lean so heavily on Torag any longer.
He's also pretty conspicuously missing from Starfinder's setting, supposedly having disappeared during The Gap. While SF and PF's canons aren't necessarily linked, it would make sense if a deity who is missing from one winds up missing from the other.
The counterpoint is, with us getting so much Dwarven content right now, would they be so quick to to return to that well? I kind of think if Torag was going to bite the big one, we wouldn't be getting the AP that started this month.
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What if we're all looking at this the wrong way? What if it isn't one of the active deities that is getting offed, but rather one that's more, confined shall we say? My guess is one of the future APs will cap-off with the adventurers actually perma-killing Rovagug with backup and empowerment from all deities that don't want to become his meal.
I hope you're right, especially since Starfinder's deity "The Devourer" has explicitly never been confirmed or denied to be Rovagug, but part of me feels like that'd be just too obvious a narrative when most modern audiences expect an announced upcoming character death such as this to twist some sort of knife for the audience.
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Looks like I’m getting my wish for Lashuntas and Solarians in PF2 after all, wow!!
Those two new classes fascinate me. I’m honestly betting of a faux-Inquisitor and a faux-Shaman, to pair with all this divine madness.
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Looks like I’m getting my wish for Lashuntas and Solarians in PF2 after all, wow!!
Those two new classes fascinate me. I’m honestly betting of a faux-Inquisitor and a faux-Shaman, to pair with all this divine madness.
I feel like "faux-inquisitor and faux-shaman" is a bit too much of a bait-and-switch from "never been seen before". Like, they're telling us that we get two all-new ones, and you think that that means that we're getting two long-wished-for favorites with the serial numebrs scratched off?
Also... I can see a number of potential reasons to remix the old inquisitor to the point that it wouldn't really count as the same class, and give the result a different name (Intercessor!). I really can't see any reason to remix the shaman to that degree, or to call the result anything other than "shaman".
As for what they are...? Well, my personal dream combo of a Book of Aberrations, with Living Host and Aberrant Inheritor classes is still technically possible... but I don't see "here's a bunch of aberrant and Darklands stuff" really feeding into a "war between the gods" storyline, and we can be pretty darned sure that the rulebook that contains these two classes is going to be feeding support to the War Between the Gods storyline.
We know that we won't be getting Mythic (yet) so it's not that. On the flip side... well, we wander back to the questions that started this whole thread off. What bricks have they been laying? We just got a bunch of info on the planes, and not just the elemental planes. We've got the remaster bringing the war between the Holy and the Unholy into somewhat sharper relief as well.
I think... I'm going to guess that one of the classes is going to have some Inquisitor lineage. Start with the Inquisitor, carve off the chunks that the Thaumaturge ate, maybe fill it out a little with some of the stuff that people wish the warpriest was, maybe sand off a few of the bits that were a bit too problematic. (I hope it at least keeps the edge, though I wouldn't be too sad to see some of the unfortunate implications go.) That's going to leave you with... maybe a third to a half of a class worth of raw stuff. Then you get your other half from... somewhere. Maybe Marshal/Warlord? The old Inquisitor was pretty into those teamwork feats, after all, and "I lead my rag-tag band to glory in the name of (deity)" starts looking at least reasonably coherent as a concept. This lets us fit that junk in while keeping it well away from the OGL.
I have very little idea as to the other one. Maybe something themed on demons or devils? I'd love it to be that medium/envoy idea I was tossing around however long ago, but that's more the diplomacy side. It's not really war-themed enough. No real clue for this one, honestly.
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I feel like "faux-inquisitor and faux-shaman" is a bit too much of a bait-and-switch from "never been seen before". Like, they're telling us that we get two all-new ones, and you think that that means that we're getting two long-wished-for favorites with the serial numebrs scratched off?
I mean maybe, the thaumaturge was also advertised as being brand new to Pathfinder even though it has some clear analogs to existing PF1 things. Could see whatever comes next being similar.
Given what we now know about Zon-Shelyn...I admit I'd be shocked if they weren't the ones to go down.
It's such a cool change though. Since it changes the setting without removing anyone's character concept, as devotees can still worship their god.
It can happen isolated to Starfinder lore, though. Shelyn in that game is a distant, rarely heard from god who is off on the fringes of reality searching for a way to heal her brother. Having them merge as part of the SF1 to SF2 swap would make sense and not need to touch the Pathfinder god event.
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I mean maybe, the thaumaturge was also advertised as being brand new to Pathfinder even though it has some clear analogs to existing PF1 things. Could see whatever comes next being similar.
I feel like "faux-inquisitor and faux-shaman" is a bit too much of a bait-and-switch from "never been seen before". Like, they're telling us that we get two all-new ones, and you think that that means that we're getting two long-wished-for favorites with the serial numebrs scratched off?
Yeah, this is what I meant. Michael Sayre has floated ideas for a “Shaman” that had nothing to do with the PF1 class, and between that break and the name’s baggage, I could see a “trade favors with the spirits” class taking on a new name.
The word that one of these two new faces is a Rare option has me wondering what might have flavor that restricted… something like a Binder, or maybe a Demigod?
The word that one of these two new faces is a Rare option has me wondering what might have flavor that restricted… something like a Binder, or maybe a Demigod?
Oh!
That actually makes my nebulous "demon/devil themed" idea quite a lot more plausible. "Class that inherently channels unholy powers" is pretty much exactly the sort of thing you want to put a "Rare" tag on.
The two merging would be the equivalent of removing the Ying-Yang. Yeah okay, but why?
Well, for one thing it means that you have an intersex deity, for those who might want an intersex deity. Past that, the dichotomy is still there. The deity now has both "pain" and "art" in their portfolio, and could quite plausibly have both devout followers who were sympathetic and also devout followers who were horrifying.
I mean, I don't know that they're necessarily going to run it that way, but the possibility exists.
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***Two new classes, Hey I guessed it - two, and both brand new!!! On my second attempt. Oh, first time and all that…
Very happy to see Michael Sayre creating a new class. After his 3rd party publisher work on the Luchador and Battlelord and all the Akashic /veils classes he definitely brings a lot of creativity, has shown mucho chops during his time at Paizo on Guns and Gear and is generally a very moderate person on the boards and intuitive designer. Also he cryptically teased about “broken, destiny, seneschal, weaver” the other day. So there’s that.
I’m not familiar with James Case in the slightest, so I’m not really sure what he is in to.
***As for a godswar, how incredibly…derivative. Especially the concept of a media spanning “event” which feels like an attempt to….compete…with…something. Hopefully the godswar sees them all off themselves. Excpet maybe Pharasma, though I hpe she gets a personality transplant and becomes less stuffy so I can totally play my Skeleton Necromancer and live with her in the Boneyard. I was wondering if this Gen Con announcement would shift the Campaign Setting along in time/scope…
I don’t think a “god’s death” will deal with any OGL problematic gods - the idea with OGL problems is clearly not to highlight them as a way of removing them, but to just stick them in a dark dusty corner called the past and never talk about them again…
***Very happy to see SF2 pulled into the fold. I get where hardened SF players might be worried, but we all made the jump to PF2 largely unscathed….right? Just gonna go and make that new Inquisitor charact…oh…wait….
I'm pretty sure James case was the main developer of the psychic class at least, which I very much like the design of (if not the flavor but I've never liked psychic stuff, I don't think even perfect mechanics could make it my favorite class). Looking forward to seeing what gets cooked up. Not a fan of a rare class but I'm sure I'm in the minority there. I already got my class in kineticist I just want classes my group will love now.