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And now my watch begins.


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Welcome back!


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We'll either get Eye of Dread very soon (next meta-region book or the one after), or at the end. If it's at the end, it will be for the reasons stated. If it's soon, it's because we haven't had anything to do with him or his minions in the APs yet. That is very odd. The 3.5 APs kicked off that plot, and Shattered Star happened three years in to 1E. 2E will be four years old in July/August.


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Sober!NoNat is best NoNat, especially when he reads things that are this fun. (And OH ME OH MY, the items are fun!)


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logic_poet wrote:
keftiu wrote:

I just realized: barring drastic changes to Paizo and Pathfinder 2e, a year from this will be AP #200. That's incredible!

The backmatter article in #100 of extra NPCs for every single prior AP is one of my favorites they've ever done.

Maybe we can get a hologram on the cover?

That would be outrageous. Truly, truly, truly outrageous.


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DomHeroEllis wrote:
Ooh, I wonder what a Skysage is.

An Oatia Skysage is...:
an astrologer who gains divination spells from all traditions (up to 9th level, cast as Occult spells), as well as night/star focus spells and special abilities mostly related to the stars.

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keftiu wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:


My copy just shipped, so I have the PDF. Does anyone have any questions for me?
I don't dare ask for proper spoilers, so instead - how do you like it, at least from an initial skim?

It gives Gatewalkers a strong start. If the rest is this strong, it will be my favourite 1-10 to date, and one of the best of the edition period. Also, it being a 1-10 is interesting, but I won't go into that because it is definitely spoilery.


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Reading through the adventure now. I just got through the intro, and I have a few thoughts.

Please don't read this until you've at least read the intro:
Powerful, desperate people doing things that cause varying degrees of genocide to people who have done them no wrong seems to be A Thing in this edition. You have Aroden and the xulgaths, the dwarves and the orcs, and now the leadership of Sovyrian and the saumen-kar. Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, and thrice is a pattern. I also appreciate the twist on Strange Aeons. The PCs there were horrible people in their previous lives, but here the PCs are victims who could be any sort of person.


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And now my watch has ended.


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CorvusMask wrote:
It does kinda make it sound like Wood and Metal elemental lords should be LN/CN instead .-. I wonder if that will be the case though

It would (at least partially) explain why the elemental lords of these planes didn't get mixed up in the whole "binding the good elemental lords" mess. It would also provide an interesting contrast. The LN lord of one plane would be villain (for lack of a better term) on the Plane of Metal, but the hero on the Plane of Wood (reversed for the CN lords).


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And now my watch begins!


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IMO, it's very likely that there are elves all across Golarion. They wouldn't be as relatively common as they are in the Inner Sea or even Tian Xia, but there's no reason for them not to be just about anywhere.


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Okay, who fed the Mogwais after midnight? And who let them get wet?


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Another thing I like about the book is the take on the new planes. Logically, one might assume that the Plane of Metal would be the Lawful one (inflexible, unchanging) and the Plane of Wood would be the Chaotic one (flexible, growing). However: the assumptions are entirely wrong, and it makes complete sense.


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The new class options have me very excited! Dare I hope that there's a Metal Bardic Muse?


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An AP filled with Abyssal post-Ascension intrigue could be very interesting, but I think Abaddon is the likeliest choice of the three. WotR somewhat served as the Abyssal AP, and Hell has consistently popped up in smaller doses. Abaddon hasn't gotten the exposure, so it might be its time to shine. Metaphorically speaking, that is.


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keftiu wrote:

I'd like to see Kyonin creep a little towards CG, if only because it feels much less likely that Jinin is able to break away from being LN... but that's a whole other bag of worms.

I don't envy the team tasked with rehabilitating the entire nation of elven weaboos who are obsessed with honor.

I would hope they'd turn to someone of Japanese heritage for that task. And I would love to see a nation advertised as CG actually be CG.


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If we do, it will likely be next year's last AP. If it's 1-10, it will probably be set in Qadira or Jalmeray (neither of which have hosted an AP yet). If it's 11-20, which I hope it is, we will probably go planar.


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keftiu wrote:
belgrath9344 wrote:
I just want stats for the elemental lords and detailed maps & locations for each plane
Given that they all already have deity statblocks in this edition, I’m skeptical you’ll get those statblocks.

We're not getting those stats until/unless we get Mythic. Honestly, that is as it should be.


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Zoomba wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:

The 2nd adventure path beyond that has not had any teases yet other than that it's one I'm excited about and, for those who are following the numbers, will certainly include the 200th volume of Pathfinder Adventure Path, which seems like a good excuse for doing something special.

Since the Sky King’s Tomb would be 193-195, looks like another 3-part AP will follow that if that’s the case. Curious if it’ll be another low-level or continue the more common ‘1-10, then 11-20 trend’ :)

There have been more 1-10s than 11-20s. I'd love it if we had two of them in one year, and my gut says it probably will be so as to tie in with Rage of Elements, but we'll have to wait for the end of February to know for sure.


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James Jacobs wrote:
Patrickthekid wrote:
Archpaladin Zousha wrote:

It's gonna be the Stolen Fate adventure path, an 11-20 level AP centered around an artifact Harrow deck called The Deck of Destiny!

190: The Choosing

191: The Destiny War

192: The Worst of All Possible Worlds

Followed by Sky King's Tomb, a 1-10 AP with a dwarf focus to coincide with the upcoming Lost Omens: Highhelm book!

There was an AP project Jacobs was excited to reveal. Is that one after the Sky King's Tomb AP?
It's the next two after Sky King's Tomb, in fact, that I'm working on in one way or another and am excited to chat about but that's for later.

Are those the "rusts" and "spiders" APs you mentioned?


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keftiu wrote:
Ha, Gatewalkers has me excited because it's doing weird alien stuff and going to out-there locales. Glad we can all get what we want :)

I'm glad they keeping their focus on alternating between classic and weird APs.


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He is immortal, so the thought of building something to justify that would be pretty tempting.


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PossibleCabbage wrote:

Perpetual Stews are a real thing, I think the earliest reference I could find for them is 14th century Poland. The thing that keeps you safe, microbiologically speaking, is that under proper conditions these things ferment (like sauerkraut or kimchi) and the friendly bacteria that are fermenting outcompete any pathogens.

Normally the way this is done is that the pot contains what is essentially that is regularly skimmed, and then you dump in the stuff that you want in your stew (tubers, meat, whatever) to cook in the broth then ladle out the cooked things with some of the broth to have a stew.

Hypothetically, if you were to cool this down quickly enough you could safely freeze your broth and then reheat it later, but then your stew is less perpetual.

It seems to me that dumping preserved goods and dry grains to your tangy, salty broth would make a good winter meal.

So basically a Stew of Theseus? (Also, sourdough starters are much the same, but I had to make the reference)


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keftiu wrote:
keftiu wrote:

The AMA has convinced me a Tian Xia book is imminent.

Excited to see how plausible that seems once that new store page goes up. Hoping it’s today!

Not even close.

Happy for all the dwarf fans! Highhelm isn't so standalone after all, and 2023 seems to be the first year without a 6-part AP. Super excited to see where this one goes, and what those final three books will be! It does seemingly suggest that big LO setting book slot might be nonstandard next year.

My thoughts as well. We've had too many Tian Xia hints for it not to coming soon. James mentions nostalgia for #200 later on in this thread. I'd like to point out that Ameiko is one of the first NPCs we ever met, and also one of the first to feature in multiple APs, and she's the empress of Minkai. Catching up with her could be pretty nostalgic.


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And now my watch has ended.


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For me, whether an AP should be a 3-parter or a 6-parter depends on the nature and scope of the story. Age of Ashes, Strength of Thousands, and Blood Lords are definite 6-part APs. The stories of each don't just warrant that, but rather demand it. I don't want those stories to go away. *gestures at APs all the way back to Shackled City* Breathtaking. More variety is good, so I have no objections whatsoever to 3-parters. More 11-20s would be nice, though.

Back on to the topic of Sky King's Tomb: this could be a game-changer for the Whispering Tyrant meta-plot. Ardax is reaching out to Tar-Baphon's other foes, but this could hasten the alliance process. If the orcs* can reach an understanding with the dwarves*, they can make peace with anyone.

*-- of Avistan; the orcs and dwarves of Garund have presumably peacefully coexisted for millennia.


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keftiu wrote:
The Land of the Linnorm Kings has never properly hosted an AP unto itself, and it's got me curious - what Viking-adjacent stories do people want to spend 3 or 6 books with?

Fafnheir.


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Tyrant's Grasp was bold because it actually played through what is normally backstory material. "The great heroes sacrificed their lives for an incomplete win" is what players usually hear at a table when their purpose is to finish the job. This time, it's the prologue. I understand why it's not to everyone's tastes, especially because the PCs in that story are canonically DEAD in ways that usually don't/can't happen in TTRPGs, but I love it. I certainly wouldn't want it for every story, yet for that story it worked perfectly. Closing out an edition on that note? Brilliant.

Tl;dr: it was the Rogue One to the inevitable A New Hope, only it came out first.


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And now my watch begins.


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Squiggit wrote:

I don't see him doing the Starstone tbh. If it kills him, it's kind of a cheap way out for one of the setting's more prominent and interesting villains... and if he wins he's a god and the things that make him an interesting character are mostly gone, because gods are largely untouchable.

Maybe a story where he takes the test, fails, but survives and there's fallout in terms of a negative impact on his legitimacy or accusations of the test being tampered with by outside forces or something along those lines.

"What does God need with a Starstone?"


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keftiu wrote:

A terrible little voice is trying to make me throw together an Arcadian party out of the scraps we know about that continent - but what kind of epic quest would bring them to the "exotic" shores of the Inner Sea?

I think it might be good fun to have these heroes be gawking at all of the things we find so familiar... while also saving the day and having cool powers.

Hmm. A group of (mostly?) gun wielders who have heard about Alkenstar and want to see it for themselves. The route determines how long the trip is, and how fun it could be. For a given ue of fun, anyway.


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For me, what makes a story Mythic isn't so much mechanical (though it definitely plays a role!) as it is about stakes and tone. A 1-10 AP should have the PCs be very aware that they are a small group of people in a big world. Their stories should be about nipping problems in the bud before they become too big (Outlaws of Alkenstar) or have them becoming big fish in a small pond (Quest for the Frozen Flame). 11-20 APs are quite different. They are powerful and renowned, and this is where they show the world what they're made of (Fists of the Ruby Phoenix). Or sometimes not (there's plenty of room for "the Greatest Story Never Told" APs, and I have a sneaking suspicion that Stolen Fate may be one of them). A 1-20 AP combines both. Those are all about the journey from the bottom to the top. Strength of Thousands is all about this, and Blood Lords also captures it really well (incidentally, that's a huge part of why I'm enjoying Blood Lords even though it's more evil-friendly than I normally like).

So what does any of this have to do with Mythic? The tone of a Mythic adventure should be grand in scope. Saving the world? All in a day's work. Beating up a (demi)god and making them cry? That's more like it. A Mythic story should be, oh I don't know, something like this: first, the PCs boot Treerazer out of Tanglebriar. Then, they follow him back to the Abyss and feed him his own axe. Finally, they have a strongly worded conversation with Cyth'V'sug over his lousy parenting. Maybe even two strongly worded conversations. A 20th level party could accomplish the first. They could even have a shot at the second if they were careful and lucky. They couldn't do the third. That's what separates Mythic from even high level play.


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keftiu wrote:

…y’know, if I’m feeling conspiratorial, I might say Nalinivati’s absence here would make a lot of sense if we were seeing Vudra or Nagajor/Tian Xia relatively soon.

Just a thought.

They've been hinting at Tian Xia for a while now. An AP set there would coincide nicely with Rage of Elements.


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keftiu wrote:
Evan Tarlton wrote:

Okay, so I can't possibly be the only person who thinks that the person pictured on page 13 is really ** spoiler omitted **

I mean, the picture and the write-up track much too well for them to be anybody else.

That character sounds much more like a very powerful Urgathoan than the goddess herself, especially considering that she was allegedly defeated by pharaohs and bound under the Mana Wastes.

I had considered that, but the use of allegedly and their not mentioning that she was an Urgathoan makes me suspicious. It's probably one of those things they're leaving to us, but still.


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Okay, so I can't possibly be the only person who thinks that the person pictured on page 13 is really

this person, right?:
Urgathoa

I mean, the picture and the write-up track much too well for them to be anybody else.


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And now my watch has ended.


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Hmm. Monk, psychic, sorcerer, swashbuckler, or thaumaturge. I could make a cool drow as any class, but those are the ones I would have the most fun with.


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And now my watch begins.


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It's very interesting that we're getting this book, which is about people tied to stone and metal, right before Rage of Elements.


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willfromamerica wrote:
CorvusMask wrote:
I still wonder whether I should run War for the Crown in 2e or in 1e...
We'll get back on topic after this, but I just want to say I'm running War for the Crown in 2e right now and it's shaping up to maybe be my favorite adventure path ever.

WftC is an absolute triumph. One of the best APs they've ever done. And to get things back on topic: I can very easily see a 1-10 AP set in Nex where the party works for an Arclord against their biggest rival/s. They would never confront the opposing Arclord directly, but their agents are another story. A shades of grey story with a rival party could be tons of fun, especially if they interacted socially when not actively fighting.


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And now my watch has ended.


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keftiu wrote:
zimmerwald1915 wrote:
snip

It's worth considering that the Bright Lions follow a pantheon with a seemingly Lawful bent; Chohar is LG and Luhar is LN, and even NG Tlehar has LG followers. ** spoiler omitted ** It seems very likely to me that if the Old Sun Gods were to be pegged to a single alignment, it would be Lawful Good - and given their pragmatism, Firebrand braggarts and radicals must look like childish fools.

That said, I imagine the book will gesture at some ties between them (it's hard to imagine Mwangi Firebrands being unaware of the other big struggle for liberty in their homeland), as the Bright Lions are clearly a favorite. I'm glad to see more of them! Here's hoping we help them topple Walkena by the time this edition ends.

The best Firebrand allies the Bright lions could have would be from Vidrian or Ravounel. They wouldn't be any less flashy by inclination, but they would know exactly how those two revolutions went and why they succeeded. They'd probably make up for their early stealth when they time comes for big actions. And yes, please let's deal with the upstart mummy.


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And now my watch begins.


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I got it for the Switch. I have a SwitchLite. Is anybody else having problems? I can't prepare spells or use potions.


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keftiu wrote:

So, the Knights of Lastwall had a whole chapter devoted to the various locales that might host their campaigns: a 12 page gazetteer of the Gravelands, 4 pages on the Eye of Dread microregion, 2 pages each on the Absalom, Broken Lands, and Shining Kingdoms microregions, and then 2 pages on miscellaneous other efforts.

Assuming a similar structure here (one or two regions in considerable depth, three others covered more briefly), where would you want to see the Firebrands focus on?

Given their roots in both Ravounel and Vidrian, both seem like safe bets. Shackles pirates are archetypal for Firebrands, as are abolitionist efforts in Cheliax and the Golden Road... but fighting against tyranny and being a flashy braggart can happen just about anywhere!

I like this list. We'd probably get mention of their actions on the wider High Seas and more in the Mwangi Expanse. The Firebrands and the Bright Lions should be natural allies, but the clash in their methodologies would probably be a deal breaker. We'll probably also find out about ties to the Twilight Talons. I imagine more than a few Firebrand activities have had their support. Ditto the Bellflower Tillers. I strongly suspect a blurb on the Hellknights, as all but the Order of the Torrent should hate them (and even the Torrents would find them unreliable at best).


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James Jacobs wrote:
RatyborGM wrote:
That's strange a bit, to see elves with human eyes
Which elf? (Usually when this happens it's 'cause of one of two things... the image is actually of a half-elf, who have human eyes, or it's an error that slipped through.)

It's in the Player's Guide. I assumed it was the latter error, because the ears are much too long for a half-elf.


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keftiu wrote:
Which of the five coming Ancestries (Ghoran, Kashrishi, Nagaji, Vanara, and Vishkanya) are folks most eager for?

Probably Kashrishi, because they are entirely new. I'm quite excited for the four returning, though.


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The 12 part APs of old were only one adventure in the issue. If we were to get one of those now, they would have to do that again. One 12 parter in half the issue, and any combination of 3 and 6 part adventures or one-shots.


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PossibleCabbage wrote:
But one of Cheliax's most important shipyards lied in Kintargo and Ravounel has a ready supply of tinder. Cheliax and Ravounel are nominally allies due to a treaty of necessity, but Ravounel's values are much more in line with those of Andoran and nothing would test that alliance more than things coming to head between Cheliax and Andoran.

Ravounel would publicly stay out of it unless they were confident Andoran would win. Privately is another matter.

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