For those who enjoy guessing the future of Paizo products...


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

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Michael J. Sayre just had some really interesting things to say on his twitter the other day.

https://mobile.twitter.com/MichaelJSayre1/status/1593256222966550528

We've noticed that Paizo books tend to cluster... and this sort of gives us some insight into the why of it... and, by extension, into the how.

So, given this context... what does Rage of the Elements help unlock?

To my mind...

- It's an important step to any sort of planar travel books.
- It's important for any lands that are heavy on Kineticists. I don't know enough about the various places to know what those would be, but... Tian Xia? I seem to recall something about kineticists being important to Tian Xia. I believe they also have a notable nagaji populace, so that's a bit of support pitched in by Impossible Lands.
- If there's anywhere that's really seriously wracked by elemental forces, it would be an unlock for that too.


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I'm leaning to something big viz Impossible Lands myself. They got a regional book, and elementals and genies are well-known in Jalmeray, and on top of that we've been getting hints dropped that Geb and Nex--the countries, but also possibly the arcanists--are gearing up for something big.
My guess is this will all culminate in an adventure path of some description, though I'm not sure what'll happen in it. A Nex/Geb conflict with elemental overtones maybe?

I'd personally love a planar hopping AP myself, one that spans across multiple extraplanar metropolises, or perhaps runs through each elemental plane.


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I'm generally pretty terrible at these predictions, but it's fun to wind myself up with rampant speculation!

My current working theory is a big Tian Xia book next year, with it being the "theme" of 2023 in the way that the Impossible Lands was there year. Some of the evidence I've got is good, a lot of it is shaky.
-Rage of Elements adds two Wuxing elements to the planes and kept our Tian Iconic for the Kineticist class, pointing to East Asian inspirations being on the team's mind broadly.
-Nagaji were a Tian ancestry in 1e, via Nagajor, and the Jalmeri group we see in the Impossible Lands book are explicitly a non-standard "heretical" branch of the culture. LOIL also has a few mentions in the text of Locathah and Wayangs, two ancestries I expect to see in a Tian release, potentially hinting at them the way the Mwangi ancestries and Kashrishis previously were.
-Both of the 3-volume Adventure Paths for next year are "travel" APs, bouncing across the setting, with Gen Con hints suggesting Stolen Fate goes to multiple continents beyond the Inner Sea.
-Treasure Vault's framing device is the hoard of an Underworld (Imperial/"Asian") Dragon, which may well set it in/beneath Tian Xia.
-Fists of the Ruby Phoenix, a Tian AP, gets a hardcover re-rerelease next year.

There's a chance that's a little too ambitious, and Rage of Elements' elemental ties instead help launch the elemental-rich Golden Road into the spotlight, continuing to Garundi focus of the Mwangi Expanse and Impossible Lands, but I'm less sure of that happening. A few 2e sources seem to hint at playable Maftets coming someday, and Katapesh ditching slavery in recent books does make the region a lot less sensitive to feature now... we'll see. The Enmity Cycle being set in Thuvia helps, but I don't think a single 2e Adventure has matched the Lost Omens setting release for the year it dropped in.

The Firebrands and Highhelm books really threw off any certainty I had for next year, and my big theory before Gen Con was that it was the Broken Lands' time to shine (it is not). I imagine the announcement of the 1-20 AP for next year at the month's end should prove deeply clarifying!


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Gourmets of Golarion! Famous cooks and the dishes that made them such


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We got some interesting insights on a potential plan for a Shaman class a while back.

Liberty's Edge

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WWHsmackdown wrote:
Gourmets of Golarion! Famous cooks and the dishes that made them such

Unironically, if they hired a handful of real culinary artists to make a shorter Cookbook (with REAL recipes, ingredients, instructions, the whole 9 yards) utilizing foods that are comparable to those that would be found in the incredibly diverse setting from real Earth dishes that would be awesome. This whole idea is decidedly off-topic so I'll drop it but for a fun one-off, I think it would be neat.


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To avoid link-rot in case Twitter doesn't make it too far into the future

Twitter Post:

2022 11 17
Michael J Sayre
@MichaelJSayre1
#pathfinder2e Design: The Long Game.
1/ With the release of #ImpossibleLands , I thought it'd be a good time to talk about the way a game is built over the course of an edition cycle. Impossible Lands is, IMO, a phenomenal book. It's also a book that couldn't happen-
2/ until we'd first done Secrets of Magic, Guns & Gears, and Dark Archive. Those books paved the road to Impossible Lands by laying out the core architecture that would serve as the foundation for much of the Impossible Lands' delicious weirdness.
3/ Each book is this Lego piece that plugs into a broader tapestry being written off-screen (oh! I forgot Book of the Dead earlier as yet another of the books that needed to be done so Impossible Lands would have the tools it needed!)
4/ Anyways, all these pieces are planned out and consideration is put into how they'll support each other and open the door to the next thing. To go to Y, we need X. Once we've reached Y, we can see Z from the mountaintop and may or may not need a new tool to go there.
5/ So if Impossible Lands is our current mountaintop, then guessing what Z might be isn't necessarily as hard as you might think! You can see the exploration tools we're laying out for ourselves by looking at the products we've announced, all of which hold hints about-
6/ where we might be headed next! If you think about a product schedule like packing a bag for a trip, you can look at what we've packed so far and make some guesses about our destination. If Rage of Elements is the set of crampons we've placed on top of the bag and the products-
7/7 we've put out so far represent the rest of our hiking and climbing gear, what mountain do you think we're looking at for the next climb? What destinations in our setting have we given ourselves the tools to visit?

[some concepts and ideas Impossible Lands built upon?]
Sure! The nation of Alkenstar and the supporting content like the Shieldmarshal and the Way of the Triggerbrand build upon lore and mechanics introduced in Guns & Gears (namely, guns and clockwork technology, but also some immediately adjacent concepts).


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So maybe some disturbance down south as grand as the Eye, Tar-Baphon, or the Worldwound? Perhaps tied to elemental forces, immortal mages at war, and clockwork tech?

Sounds like Paizo's making use of the areas before destroying them, or maybe introducing the cast & setting before the epic play begins.

I picture an invasion, or perhaps a Rovagug hiccup.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Themetricsystem wrote:
WWHsmackdown wrote:
Gourmets of Golarion! Famous cooks and the dishes that made them such
Unironically, if they hired a handful of real culinary artists to make a shorter Cookbook (with REAL recipes, ingredients, instructions, the whole 9 yards) utilizing foods that are comparable to those that would be found in the incredibly diverse setting from real Earth dishes that would be awesome. This whole idea is decidedly off-topic so I'll drop it but for a fun one-off, I think it would be neat.

That's where they could introduce a chef class, and no I'm not joking.


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Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

How about a full Vudra book? One of the APs had a major article on Vudra, but that region is actually bigger than the Mwangi Expanse and thus demands a fuller treatment.


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David knott 242 wrote:


How about a full Vudra book? One of the APs had a major article on Vudra, but that region is actually bigger than the Mwangi Expanse and thus demands a fuller treatment.

Hm.

Well, we do have an Impossible Lands intro to there by way of Jalmeray, and a bit more support with the Rakshasas... but I'm not sure what building blocks it requires. Like, having a bit of an intro in some ways is nice, but it's not in any way necessary. What pieces would have to be in place to give us Vudra? Have we seen any of those pieces?

Well, looking at the Vudran history on the wiki, it looks like occultists and psychics are perhaps important, so that's a notch in favor as well, I suppose.

I'll admit, on further inspection the idea is a bit shiny to me, if only because it looks like one of the other building blocks that it would really want would be a deeper dive on aberrations.

So... hints, perhaps. I'd expect Tian Xia first, though, if only because the aberration book hasn't even been teased yet.


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Mechanically, pretty much everything you need for Vudra is in PF2 already except for Mythic (for hero-gods); all the Ancestries are playable save for Ratajins, Kineticists and Psychics cover the unique local magical traditions, and a surprising number of Vudrani gods are available to Clerics. The only big absence I can think of is Neutral Champions, as a number of Vudrani deities are LN.

What’s missing is lore: further detail on the Vudrani (and ideally, Sunghari) cultures is a must, as we don’t really know things like their caste system, as is profiling any Vudran cities other than the one in Distant Shores. There’s a ton of blank space… I’m sure it’ll be filled in eventually, but I do think Tian Xia, Arcadia, and maybe a few more bits of the Inner Sea are coming first.


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keftiu wrote:

Mechanically, pretty much everything you need for Vudra is in PF2 already except for Mythic (for hero-gods); all the Ancestries are playable save for Ratajins, Kineticists and Psychics cover the unique local magical traditions, and a surprising number of Vudrani gods are available to Clerics. The only big absence I can think of is Neutral Champions, as a number of Vudrani deities are LN.

What’s missing is lore: further detail on the Vudrani (and ideally, Sunghari) cultures is a must, as we don’t really know things like their caste system, as is profiling any Vudran cities other than the one in Distant Shores. There’s a ton of blank space… I’m sure it’ll be filled in eventually, but I do think Tian Xia, Arcadia, and maybe a few more bits of the Inner Sea are coming first.

Sounds like an interesting area to explore the Law/Chaos divide deeper.

The area may need some more oomph or turmoil, a dynamic spin to its intriguing baseline. Might need an AP to stir that up.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
keftiu wrote:
The Enmity Cycle being set in Thuvia helps, but I don't think a single 2e Adventure has matched the Lost Omens setting release for the year it dropped in.

Recall though, Absolom and Dead God's Hand threw the schedule off a lot. It should have kicked off the Fifteen Months of Starstone Isle. Troubles in Otari sort of bookended it, and led into Abomination Vaults. I can't recall exactly where Slithering was supposed to be; I have a hard time imagining they yanked it up a full year, so maybe it was always where it was intended, but putting it where Malevolence landed would have put it close to Strength of Thousands and Mwangi Expanse. Not to mention Fall of Plaguestone takes place near the start and central locale of Ages of Ashes.

Not all of them fit this kind of pattern of course. Night of Grey Death, Shadows at Sunset, and Malevolence have little to do with nearby releases, except in the most general sense. But enough do (or should have) that there might be something there.


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Castilliano wrote:

Sounds like an interesting area to explore the Law/Chaos divide deeper.

The area may need some more oomph or turmoil, a dynamic spin to its intriguing baseline. Might need an AP to stir that up.

The most interesting part of Vudra for me is the Open Bridge region, where the forces of Nayapul rally to protect their homes from an endless tide of aberrations. It seems like their version of the Worldwound, but with squamous horrors instead of demons, and further complicated by local Sahuagin and Sekmin.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

I think there's a whole thread of things that could be on the table, pretty much going through a lot of the suggestions that have been stated in this thread. Either we're getting Golden Road, or not just Qadira and Vudra, but a proper full look at the Kelesh empire, or we're getting a fresh look at Tian Xia.

Of those three, I think the order of them in descending likelihood is: Tian Xia, Golden Road, Kelesh empire.

Sad for me to say, because I'm honestly clamoring for more concrete info on the areas that don't already have entire books devoted to them, such as Casmaron, southern Garund, and Arcadia. So by that measurement, count me in for being very intrigued by a better look at the full Kelesh empire, but I don't think it's as likely.

And no that's not just the map-maker part of me, lol. Genuinely curious to see better looks at parts of the world that haven't been explored nearly as much.

Themetricsystem wrote:
WWHsmackdown wrote:
Gourmets of Golarion! Famous cooks and the dishes that made them such
Unironically, if they hired a handful of real culinary artists to make a shorter Cookbook (with REAL recipes, ingredients, instructions, the whole 9 yards) utilizing foods that are comparable to those that would be found in the incredibly diverse setting from real Earth dishes that would be awesome. This whole idea is decidedly off-topic so I'll drop it but for a fun one-off, I think it would be neat.

Legit, I came across a new-ish D&D cookbook recently, and am surprised by how good it is from trying a few of the recipes. Would love a Golarion book like that.


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VestOfHolding wrote:

I think there's a whole thread of things that could be on the table, pretty much going through a lot of the suggestions that have been stated in this thread. Either we're getting Golden Road, or not just Qadira and Vudra, but a proper full look at the Kelesh empire, or we're getting a fresh look at Tian Xia.

Of those three, I think the order of them in descending likelihood is: Tian Xia, Golden Road, Kelesh empire.

Sad for me to say, because I'm honestly clamoring for more concrete info on the areas that don't already have entire books devoted to them, such as Casmaron, southern Garund, and Arcadia. So by that measurement, count me in for being very intrigued by a better look at the full Kelesh empire, but I don't think it's as likely.

And no that's not just the map-maker part of me, lol. Genuinely curious to see better looks at parts of the world that haven't been explored nearly as much.

You're on the same line of logic as me: Tian Xia is what I expect, with the Golden Road as a fallback "safe" bet for them to make instead - though like I said, I'm historically terrible at this. The Tian book could add playable Locathah, Samsarans, and Wayangs, while the Golden Road potentially has Maftets and Shabti at a minimum. Both offer unique Tiefling lineages, also, with Oni and Divs, respectively.

Trust me, I'm just as excited for that full labeled map of Arcadia as you, if not more so :p I just don't think next year is the one yet!.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

So, I just reread the entry on Dwarves in the character guide, and there's a lot of fascinating stuff about Surface dwarves. Specifically, there seems to be entire cultures of Dwarves from the Golden Road that we've little touched on yet. High Helm seems to be strongly tied to Mountain Dwarves instead of Surface or Underground, but some of the options might transfer well enough.


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AnimatedPaper wrote:
So, I just reread the entry on Dwarves in the character guide, and there's a lot of fascinating stuff about Surface dwarves. Specifically, there seems to be entire cultures of Dwarves from the Golden Road that we've little touched on yet. High Helm seems to be strongly tied to Mountain Dwarves instead of Surface or Underground, but some of the options might transfer well enough.

Taking about the Pahmet of Osirion, the Paraheen of Qadira, and the Vahird of Rahadoum? I’d quite like to see more of them; I’ve honestly been neutral-to-negative on dwarves, but the work done with other Garundi dwarves (the Donguni, the Kulenett, the Mbe’ke, and the Taralu) has completely won me over.

Old PFS stuff says that many of Jormurdun’s refugees settled among other dwarven populations when that Sky Citadel fell, with the Pahmet taking on many of them; I hope that isn’t forgotten whenever it comes time to see them in detail.

Wayfinders Contributor

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I'm with you, Keftiu. The mwangi expanse dwarves are so charming they keep sparking character ideas for me!


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Hilary Moon Murphy wrote:
I'm with you, Keftiu. The mwangi expanse dwarves are so charming they keep sparking character ideas for me!

I'm really hoping Highhelm has some embassies and/or immigrant districts, to showcase all that dwarven diversity! It'd be nice to have Pahmet working in the local necropolis, or a gossiping swarm of Taralu diplomats blocking the market road...

Wayfinders

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With Highhelm repeatedly described as Fantasy New York With Dwarves, it would feel unwise for it to be an Avistani monolith, but I'm hopeful either way, especially if we get to see dwarves from even further afield.

Also, we're likely due for new store pages next week (with Paizo closed for the long weekend), including the first book of the 3rd AP for next year - which will likely illuminate the direction for 2023's back half! So that's exciting.


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Don't forget rust, spider and worm as hints either.

Rust seems very plane of metal to me.


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Onkonk wrote:

Don't forget rust, spider and worm as hints either.

Rust seems very plane of metal to me.

Okay. This sounds potentially quite interesting, but I have no idea what you're talking about. Could you possibly provide a bit more context?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Back at Gen Con I had to squeeze in as much info I could about all the adventure preview content in a single 1 hour seminar, but also didn't have the green light to announce the next unannounced standalone adventure and the next two unannounced Adventure Paths... so I gave out those three key words. Which one applies to which I haven't said yet.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

The next TWO unannounced adventure paths? Are we getting two more 3-parters in 2023, or is one of those hints about something in 2024?


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Well, Spider does have a very Drow feel to it... which goes along with another thing that I've been noticing, where we've been covering territory that has ties to the Darklands. Like, Geb literally has trade links with that ghoul city. We've recently heard about Lost Omens: Highhelm, which definitely has ties as well. Like, the entire place was under the dominion of Droskar for a century or two a while back.

Dark Archive and Book of the Dead are pretty obviously important for Darklands stuff too... though I feel like if they are going to give us a full-on Darklands book... well, that hopeful part of me suggests that they'd want a book of aberrations first, yes?

"Worm" sounds pretty aberrationy to me too... though, again, I'm biased.

Reading up on the structure of the Darklands a bit, there's definitely structure there for a campaign that consists of slowly travelling down through the layers until you hit the enormous vaults at the bottom. It's pretty obviously baked-in, really. You'd need a framing device that made ti worth doing, though, and I don't know that we actually know much about the deeper vaults. "Murder and intrigue in the drow lands" seems like a more likely form, at least at the moment. That's *probably* better as an AP than a standalone, though, if only because it seems like it would be harder to weave into a continuing campaign.

I'll agree that "rust" seems like the sort of thing that might have some cool Rage of the Elements tie-in potential... and for that one I'd expect a standalone, unless they want to have rust and corruption be a real ongoing theme for the Plane of Metal, and they're wanting a full AP to really explore it.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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willfromamerica wrote:
The next TWO unannounced adventure paths? Are we getting two more 3-parters in 2023, or is one of those hints about something in 2024?

We've got the next four Adventure Paths after the latest one that's been announced currently being written, developed, and edited (with the fifth one being one that we'll need to lock in to the schedule in about a month, and that we've already got several ideas for). My hint applies to only two of them, and has no bearing on what year they appear in or how long they are.


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A darklands mega dungeon acting as the high level complement to abomination vaults would be pretty neat


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Sanityfaerie wrote:

Well, Spider does have a very Drow feel to it... which goes along with another thing that I've been noticing, where we've been covering territory that has ties to the Darklands. Like, Geb literally has trade links with that ghoul city. We've recently heard about Lost Omens: Highhelm, which definitely has ties as well. Like, the entire place was under the dominion of Droskar for a century or two a while back.

Dark Archive and Book of the Dead are pretty obviously important for Darklands stuff too... though I feel like if they are going to give us a full-on Darklands book... well, that hopeful part of me suggests that they'd want a book of aberrations first, yes?

"Worm" sounds pretty aberrationy to me too... though, again, I'm biased.

Reading up on the structure of the Darklands a bit, there's definitely structure there for a campaign that consists of slowly travelling down through the layers until you hit the enormous vaults at the bottom. It's pretty obviously baked-in, really. You'd need a framing device that made ti worth doing, though, and I don't know that we actually know much about the deeper vaults. "Murder and intrigue in the drow lands" seems like a more likely form, at least at the moment. That's *probably* better as an AP than a standalone, though, if only because it seems like it would be harder to weave into a continuing campaign.

I'll agree that "rust" seems like the sort of thing that might have some cool Rage of the Elements tie-in potential... and for that one I'd expect a standalone, unless they want to have rust and corruption be a real ongoing theme for the Plane of Metal, and they're wanting a full AP to really explore it.

All of this lines up really well with what Michael Sayre tweeted the other day about subtly setting up future stuff.

Edit: Tweet

Liberty's Edge

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Spiders makes me think of Shenmen, likely because of all the current tips about Tian-xia. Which might be subtle misdirection for all we know.

Liberty's Edge

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I still feel we are looking for the clues that go in our preferred direction, rather than ponder what adventures/places could not be described before and are now within reach.


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The Raven Black wrote:
I still feel we are looking for the clues that go in our preferred direction, rather than ponder what adventures/places could not be described before and are now within reach.

As an example, all spider and worm make me think of are the demon lords Mazmez and Yhidothrus, respectively. That in turn makes me imagine some kind of conflict, maybe based around an important resource or location, that the Creeping Queen and Ravager Worm are squabbling over, and that the PCs have to put a stop to. Perhaps there is something in the stygian depths of Orv they desire, or their cults are both racing to find the final peace to some manner of Vermintide ritual to overrun the world with spiders or worms.

All while I know this is incredibly unlikely because I imagine that, in order to make "AP featuring demon lords" feel more impactful and draw in more players, Paizo would be really well-served by making a rules book or Lost Omens product centered around demons, or at least fiends, and we've had nothing hinting that is the case so far. I just like creepy crawly formerly qlippoth demon lords, and can dream.


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I’m honestly stumped by the hint words. I previously hyped myself up for Numeria and had that pretty conclusively dashed, and my grand old prediction of a Shaman and a Broken Lands book in 2023 book look pretty silly now. I’d throw my weight behind spiders for Shenmen, as part of a wider Tian Xia thing, but I’m afraid of jinxing it!

EDIT: Potentially jumping at shadows again, but Bestiary 3 featured Ghorans, Nagaji, Vanara, and Vishkanya - and, conveniently, is about 18 months before they all became Ancestries in the Impossible Lands book. If we can assume similar hints in it come to fruition over the next year, then I’m *very* curious about the similar statblocks in Bestiary 3 for Locathah, Maftets, Samsarans, Shabti, Wayangs, and Wyrwoods, especially considering that the book also has a both a ton of Asian monsters and both Couatl and Sahkils (the go-to celestials and fiends of Arcadia).


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Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Wow, now that I am looking at things in terms of "what are we building towards", I am confident we are not building towards one thing, but many things. But which of those thing will we get to first?

We definitely needed the Summoner before going to the Broken Lands, but we also need a Technology Guide and Aliens/Dominions of the Black book.

We definitely needed an undead book before going to the Eye of Dread, but we also need that Technology Guide for Stasian tech and we need a Horror/Dark Tapestry book.

If we want to go to the Shining Kingdoms, getting Dwarves sorted out is a step in the right direction, and Night of the Gray Death gave us an update on Galt, but we need and Intrigue/Spycraft book.

An elemental book certainly helps before going to the Golden Road and an undead book helps as well.

Will we see continent books? I sure hope so, but I also recognize those books will be much broader overviews compared to a meta region book. The same would hold true for a Darklands book or an Oceans book.


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keftiu wrote:

I’m honestly stumped by the hint words. I previously hyped myself up for Numeria and had that pretty conclusively dashed, and my grand old prediction of a Shaman and a Broken Lands book in 2023 book look pretty silly now. I’d throw my weight behind spiders for Shenmen, as part of a wider Tian Xia thing, but I’m afraid of jinxing it!

EDIT: Potentially jumping at shadows again, but Bestiary 3 featured Ghorans, Nagaji, Vanara, and Vishkanya - and, conveniently, is about 18 months before they all became Ancestries in the Impossible Lands book. If we can assume similar hints in it come to fruition over the next year, then I’m *very* curious about the similar statblocks in Bestiary 3 for Locathah, Maftets, Samsarans, Shabti, Wayangs, and Wyrwoods, especially considering that the book also has a both a ton of Asian monsters and both Couatl and Sahkils (the go-to celestials and fiends of Arcadia).

That's funny, because "rust" made me immediately think of Numeria, as in what follows Iron Gods? Rust...though what form would that take so as to be worth an AP, I do not know.

Spider seems so obviously Drow that it isn't.
Unless of course it is...

James did suggest it was three clues for two events, so maybe the Drow infiltrate Numeria? Worms could be so many things, but a Cave Worm issue in the Darklands (w/ Drow) would combine two, just add lovecraftian agents behind the whole: fight elder evil with lesser evil (Darklands PCs).

Scarab Sages

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I'm guessing that the next AP will tie closer to Rage of Elements + Impossible Lands rather than Monsters of Myth, Knights of Lastwall, Firebrands, or Travel Guide.

Rust could be a threat to the new Plane of Metal, Jalmeray has lots of elemental stuff. Spiders and worms sounds antagonistic.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Castilliano wrote:

James did suggest it was three clues for two events, so maybe the Drow infiltrate Numeria? Worms could be so many things, but a Cave Worm issue in the Darklands (w/ Drow) would combine two, just add lovecraftian agents behind the whole: fight elder evil with lesser evil (Darklands PCs).

If I did, that was a miscommunication. These are three clues for three different stories that don't really have much connection between the three. The worms and the rust and the spiders are all doing different things.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

We're gonna go wild card and say the Spider hint is actually involving Grandmother Spider. My wild theory is based on 2 facts

1) I really really really like grandmother spider
2) They are releasing a Firebrands book and Grandmother Spider would make sense to show up as an entry there. (Oh hey this might actually have a leg to stand on just need seven more)

Liberty's Edge

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Since APs almost always have a customary tie-in with a setting book, my guess is that this is going to be kicked off by a mining venture in the 5 Kings region since we know we are getting a book set there so my guess is that one mining clan or another pulled a Moria and dug too deep which broke into some underground caverns carved out by giant worms and that themselves connect to the Darklands which kicks off conflict to save the sprawling underground interconnected Dwarven kingdom(s) from an invasion of Darklands baddies.

I'm probably wrong but it would be a great way to get a pseudo-Darklands adventure that doesn't ACTUALLY have to focus on a massive wholly Darklands adventure which, frankly, would be next to impossible to manage since there is just so little about it that's been published on it yet, a toe in the pool kind of approach which gives some limited exploration of them while staying more or less grounded in established setting material that can involve something perhaps a bit more interesting than "go explore this continent-sized area for X reason" while also ensuring Paizo doesn't have to try to make up for decades of ignoring that area all in one setting book. Gods know there have been people banging on the castle doors for more Drow and Darklands content for a long time.

Plus it makes logical sense because we already know Highhelm has at least a partially intact Sky Citadel which was built by the Dwarves who dug upward during their exodus from the Darkland into the 5 Kings region.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

I may be wrong, but my gut feeling is that Highhelm, much like Grand Bazaar or Monsters of Myth, doesn't tie into any AP content we're getting soon. Most Lost Omens books have nothing to do with adventures coming out at the time; it's just the large 300+ page ones that do.


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willfromamerica wrote:
I may be wrong, but my gut feeling is that Highhelm, much like Grand Bazaar or Monsters of Myth, doesn't tie into any AP content we're getting soon. Most Lost Omens books have nothing to do with adventures coming out at the time; it's just the large 300+ page ones that do.

The Knights of Lastwall similarly are not a big deal in the Impossible Lands despite their books sharing 2022, so I think Firebrands isn’t much of a hint either.

I do believe James has explicitly confirmed they don’t have any Numeria on the docket for the next two years.

Liberty's Edge

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Grand Bazaar is an Absalom book released with a TON of information that is incredibly useful for running and Agents of Edgewatch game, and I'd even go so far as to say that ANY group running AoE that even goes a little bit off the rails would greatly benefit from it to the point it may as well be an expanded setting book for that AP for all intents and purposes.

Strength of Thousands was published with The Mwangi Expanse very much in mind as well as heavily supported by Secrets of Magic.

Knights of Lastwall is geographically close to the Worldwound which has a significant splash over in a regional sense with Quest for the frozen flame, this is a rather weak tie-in admittedly, but that's probably due to the fact that Paizo was very much focused on wrapping up the "Core rulebooks" for PF2 at that point and that the adventure was pretty thematically generic compared to most others they make.

Outlaws of Alkenstar is just flat out and hands down supported by G&G and without it, the AP doesn't make pretty much any sense at all. Impossible Lands is also supplementary to this.

Blood lords is supported by THREE setting books, Book of the Dead, Dark Archive, and now Impossible Lands.

Monsters of Myth however is simply a special Bestiary book they created that isn't part of the Bestiary line of products since they're apparently done making Bestiaries and instead are focused on making books that are heavily themed instead of just grab-bag pile of options for your table.

Paizo has been doing this kind of thing for about fifteen years with only a handful of exceptions, big APs with a given regional or type-theming are almost ALWAYS supported by one or more rulebooks that are released within 2-6 months of said AP. There are some exceptions to this but those, if anything, prove the rule rather than refute it. I would even go so far as to say that if you went through line by line since PF1 came out you would find that at LEAST 75% of all APs they've released were done with a DIRECT theme or system tie-in to a Rule or Setting book released within the same quarter, if not within 60 days.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

I don’t disagree with you that the rulebook line pretty much always coincides with adventure paths released around the same time. We saw that with Secrets of Magic and Strength of Thousands, Guns and Gears and Outlaws of Alkenstar, Book of the Dead and Blood Lords, and Dark Archive and Gatewalkers.

I also agree that the big 300+ page books in the Lost Omens line always correspond with an adventure path as well. Absalom was supposed to be released in tandem with Agents of Edgewatch, and Mwangi Expanse and Impossible Lands obviously coincided with APs around the same time.

But outside of those regional Lost Omens books, the rest of the Lost Omens line doesn’t tend to have any bearing on what we see in Adventure Paths released around the same time. From what I’ve discerned from Luis Loza, they serve more to fill other holes.

Let’s take a look at all the 128ish-page Lost Omens books, as they’re the ones I’m talking about here.

World Guide, Character Guide, Gods & Magic, Legends, and Ancestry Guide all served to set up the lore of the new edition, and obviously didn’t tie into anything directly.

Pathfinder Society Guide, Knights of Lastwall, and Firebrands have come out as a roughly yearly series of books on the different Golarion factions touched on in the core rulebook. I think the KoL -> QftFF connection is nice, but it’s a very weak one. PFS Guide and Firebrands (at least based on the APs coming out in the first half of 2023) have no AP tie-ins.

Grand Bazaar came out 10 months after the last book in Agents of Edgewatch, and I don’t think any synergy was intended there. From my POV, Grand Bazaar served more as a way to introduce a ton of new equipment into the game while also providing GMs with interesting shopkeeper NPCs they can use anywhere. It’s very much not tied to Absalom.

After that was Monsters of Myth and the Travel Guide, which obviously have no AP connections but instead serve other purposes.

From what Luis Loza has said in interviews, Highhelm is an attempt to bring the current edition up to date on what dwarves are doing in the world right now. Therefore, I’d consider it much more likely that Rage of Elements and the yet unannounced fall Lost Omens release will be what ties in most heavily with the 6-part AP coming in the second half of 2023. I’m happy to be proven wrong, because I’d love to see more stuff in the Five Kings Mountains! But given that Highhelm is a shorter book and not one of the big ones, I think it’s unlikely.


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I expect Highhelm's synchronicity to mostly come via elemental Earth, Fire, and Metal stuff (the volcano, the Azer refugees, generally being underground, potentially even Rivethun shamans dealing with elemental spirits) coinciding broadly with Rage of Elements, in the same way that Knights of Lastwall benefited from their undead foes getting Book of the Dead.

EDIT: Earth, Fire, and Metal is, of course, Highhelm's most acclaimed funk cover band.

Liberty's Edge

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I wonder if maybe we should focus on what the books that seem unrelated to everything else actually bring to the table and how that could combine.

What does the Travel Guide brings that is new and necessary ?


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Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
The Raven Black wrote:

I wonder if maybe we should focus on what the books that seem unrelated to everything else actually bring to the table and how that could combine.

What does the Travel Guide brings that is new and necessary ?

Personally, for something like the Travel Guide I would be surprised if it is a one for one building block towards a specific region. For me, it did a great job of setting up background elements for several regions, elements that can then be referenced later as we explore those regions.

But, if I were to call out one tell, I would say the stuff on the moon, stars, and Cosmic Caravan is definitely a building block for building towards the Saga Lands. And, correct me if I am wrong, but I thought I saw mention of a book exploring the Harrow. Which would definitely be another step in that direction. Although, I suspect a Saga Lands book would be 2-3 years out.


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New store pages potentially go up as soon as tomorrow - any heroic final guesses for what and where the 6-part AP is?

I think I'm locked into my Tian Xia theory, but am very ready to be surprised.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Not a guess but continuing to try to psychically will Vudra content into existence.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
keftiu wrote:

New store pages potentially go up as soon as tomorrow - any heroic final guesses for what and where the 6-part AP is?

I think I'm locked into my Tian Xia theory, but am very ready to be surprised.

6 books, 6 elements covered in Rage of Elements… coincidence?

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