I have read both of those, great stuff. I'm mostly looking for an easy way to do it with events already in the story though, largely to prevent me from having to burden a GM with an excessive amount of extra work (and thus making it less likely to be accepted).
Andre Roy wrote:
Carrion Crown ran from February to July 2011, Strange Aeons August 2016 to February 2017. That a 5.5 years gap that we could transpose in universe and go from there. So what was Count Lowls up to, 5.5 years before Strange Aeons?
Based on the Thrushmoor Terror, that would have been just before he acquired the PCs (which was 5 years before the AP starts). So probably that would have been when Lowls got tired of being ridiculed in Ustalav's academic circles and started becoming obsessed with his occult research and the Star Stelae.
David knott 242 wrote:
Correct. IC (in character) is used to denote things as perceived by the inhabitants of Golarion (so for example the transcripts from Golarion books) and OOC (out of character) is used to denote things as perceived by us (such as the mechanical rules).
I am also now realizing how incredibly off topic this has become. I apologize for derailing the thread.
Why? The other deities can also do it. It still would have happened, just differently. All his power and influence comes from the fact that he is older than everyone else. The multiverse would function largely the same with or without him.
Almost every ooc reference to Asmodeus that I have ever seen (see the books I read through above) directly says that he is one of the oldest and wisest beings in existence. Since the gods don't have stat blocks, nothing ever explicitly says anything about how powerful he is in comparison to other deities, but given the fact that he is the only full-deity devil and is opposed by the entirety of the celestial planes (which are chock full of true deities) without losing or dying, it can be presumed that he is something of a heavyweight. I agree that nothing ooc says that Ihys created the cycle of souls, but the cycle of souls is almost never ooc discussed to the best of my knowledge.
Not sure what you mean by the timeline problem given Asmodeus character...?
Other than that I seem to agree with you, just don't find most of it to be as important as you do. I think our different perspectives are largely procedural in nature. You are looking for IC and OOC references to explicitly support each other, thus holding the lore to a higher degree of rigor than I, who am content with a lack of explicit contradictions or mutual exclusiveness, am.
Ah. I guess that's a difference in perspective then, I don't see that as being as important as you seem to.
Read the Cycle of Souls excerpt on page 22 of CoR. It states exactly that they were the first, the strongest, and that they (or really Ihys) created the Cycle of Souls.
Well, we know that there's no real timeline, but the above-referenced page indicates that mortals predate Heaven itself. So it seems the timeline is:
1) Asmodeus and Ihys (and later the other deities) create life
You're right in that CoR and BotD both seem to gloss over the intervening time between each event, but they do not give any span of time at all, so it's not really contradictory, just misleading. My take is that that's simply due to the face that Tabris is an immortal and thus has a very different concept/perception of time than we would (and ooc, that would drastically increase the page count if they tried to include too much of the intervening time for something that is relatively unimportant).
That's not what I got from reading it. BotD specifically says that the other "motes" learned how to use the power of the Seal the same way Asmodeus and Ihys did, Asmodeus and Ihys were just the first to do so. As you said, other than that they were the first and strongest, there's nothing particularly cosmologically important about them.
Book of the Damned pg. 260 wrote:
The First were not alone during this age, though, for while they were the first, others followed their paths. From the ranks of the younger motes grew vital forces synchronous to the things Ihys and Asmodeus created, majestic and wild beast spirits, and new personalities akin to the First. These beings gathered upon the islands the brothers created, the greatest of them even learning to shape the power of the Seal themselves.
CoR goes into a bit more detail about how the planes and outsiders were created (and has a more detailed, but still incredibly vague timeline), but other than that they appear to be the same.
The timeline still doesn't seem to quite work out because the rebellion against Heaven seems to have occurred long after free will was a thing (Moloch was explicitly an Archon who ran the Heresy Ovens immediately prior to the rebellion...that seems like something that is unlikely to predate mortals), but it's a lot closer than the BotD version.
I agree that the rebellion happened after Ihys created free will, but am not sure how that's a discrepancy? That's the catalyst that started the war/rebellion.
Ok, so I finally finished reading through all the books I had access to (Book of the Damned, Chronicle of the Righteous, Concordance of Rivals, and the Bestiary 6 entries for the archfiends). Books that might be pertinent but I don't have access to are Faiths of Corruption, Gods and Magic, and that one article about Asmodeus from Mother of Flies (Council of Thieves part 5).
From everything I've read, the rebellion against Heaven/the Exodus and the war against Ihys are the same thing. They are explicitly called out as the same thing in several out of character text descriptions. There's also not really a timeline, but what vague one we have doesn't seem to contradict itself that I can find.
Also: something that you've said several times is that Asmodeus is a fallen angel, and while I seem to remember that being the case as well, I cannot find anything that actually says that. Do you know where that is stated, or is that just something we've all collectively just assumed?
The same story is in CoR, which was written before BotD and also doesn’t involve devils.
I don’t understand your reasoning for the timing incompatibility, and I don’t recall enough of the rebellion to comment (I will refresh myself tomorrow).
Tabris wrote BotD, not Asmodeus. And either way, those are not mutually exclusive viewpoints.
Yeah. I’ll probably have it be one of his children or something, sent to scout things out but ultimately expendable. A young adult should be in the cr12 range I think, which is about right.
Thanks for the help.
James Jacobs wrote:
I thought that usually a single Malebranche would be selected to conquer a planet? Sorry if I wasn't clear.
Ooh that's perfect! Any idea of it's name?
I'm looking for a chaotic dragon in Cheliax (so likely red/white or brass/copper) that's in the general vicinity of Citadel Enferac (or at least closer to them than any other Hellknight citadel). Does anybody know of one offhand?
I can of course make my own, but if there's one already described that would make my job easier.
Planar Adventures goes into great detail about planar tuning forks.
Also: it is an excellent book in general.
Ok, so there's a TON of possible ways that this could have gone, so I'm only going to write up what I think are the things you guys most likely would have done.
You manage to rescue a severely damaged and traumatized Ves (CYBORG WIZARD!), escaping from the pitch black nightmare that is Crowhollow by the skin of your teeth. You flee east across the Numeria/Brevoy border, with an enraged Hellion in hot pursuit. As soon as you feel you safely can, you use your scrolls of teleport to travel back to Lord Vezivo's territory.
Once there, you report to Vicarius Torchia, who commends you on your successful mission and promotes you all. As usual of course, with that promotion comes more work. He informs you that Lady Nought (who you suddenly realize you haven't heard from in some time) has hired the Order of the Gate to remove Hellion, in exchange for future services once she controls the Technic League. To that end, he had Imazi (the varisian seer who most of you met on your first mission) capture Zakat, an extremely potent stormborn sorcerer that would be devastatingly effective against the constructs that Hellion prefers. Imazi struggles to train him and reign in his wild nature.
(As you recall, while she's doing that, you were on your fateful trip to Druma to convince the Kalistocrats to let you keep Zakat.)
Now, your job is to return Vespartius to Citadel Enferac, so that the signifers there can hopefully devise a countermeasure to the modifications that Hellion seems to imbue in his slaves.
Before you can return though, Lord Vezivo manages to restore Vespartius's memories, and Ves hurriedly relays to you that Hellion has almost completed construction of a portal to the Machine Armory, a demiplane filled with thousands upon thousands of machines that Hellion could use as his army.
You inform the Vicarius of this new information, and he orders you to find and destroy that portal by any means necessary. Vespartius says he thinks he knows where it is, and after loading up on as much destructive gear and magic as Lord Vezivo can give you, you all once again travel back to Numeria (you're really starting to hate that place).
You re-enter Crowhollow, though this time any pretense of subtlety is gone, and you tear through the dungeon like a wrecking ball. Unfortunately, you get to the room where the portal is, and see that it's already active, and there's no sign of Hellion. Torn, you eventually decide to follow in, as there is no guarantee that destroying the portal on this end would prevent Hellion from constructing another one. Vespartius uses the portal to amplify his magic and manages to get a message sent off to the Vicarius requesting reinforcements before you enter the portal.
Inside, you note with relief that it doesn't seem like Hellion has succeeded yet, as the rows upon rows of machines still stand silently in their ranks. With no leads on where to go, you decide to head towards the tower in the distance. As you get closer, you start seeing flitting clouds of dust your peripheral, and hearing a muted, buzzing whisper. Vespartius seems to be able to understand it more clearly than anyone else, and after some deliberation you decide to communicate with it. It calls itself Iteration 384 and requests your aid in fighting off Hellion. It has managed to keep Hellion from gaining control of the machines by shutting off certain structures, but in the same vein it cannot control the machines itself either. It instructs you on how to physically block off Hellions access, so that it can work on restarting the shut down structures and gaining control of the machines.
So you run around, avoiding Hellion and breaking things. Depending on how long you take and how successful you are, different things could happen (depends more on dice than your choices, so I'll list them).
1) Hellion spots you and you have to fight him. However, if you distract it long enough, this takes Hellions attention away from Iteration 384, who manages to gain control of the machines and helps you fight Hellion.
2) You manage to break enough access points that Hellion cannot take control of the machines. Iteration 384 takes control of the machines and fights Hellion.
3) You manage to stay one step ahead of Hellion, but just barely. Fortunately, Imazi, Zakat, and a squad of Hellknights (the infamous Dread Wing), arrive and help you fight Hellion.
4) Hellion manages to gain access to a point that you haven't been able to break. It succeeds in gaining control of the machines.
4a) You manage to escape and destroy the portal behind you. Now you have to prepare for a possible invasion.
4b) You manage to stay alive inside the Machine Armory long enough that Imazi, Zakat, and a squad of Hellknights arrive to help you fight Hellion. But with this many different hosts to choose from, Hellion is extremely difficult to pin down, and killing it is almost impossible. You retreat, though Zakat is having the time of his life and refuses to go with you. You destroy the portal behind you, hoping that Zakat is powerful enough to take down Hellion, or at least stall it until you can get an army there.
(Of course you could all die at any time, but I'm only including the positive outcomes here)
After the battle, you return to Citadel Enferac to significant acclaim, receiving promotions and some well deserved rest. After a few weeks, you are called into a meeting at Citadel Demain. There you meet the heads of all the major Hellknight orders, as well as finally meeting Lady Nought in the flesh (where she is slightly less intimidating). She has finally taken control of the Technic League, and with your help has eliminated all major opponents to her in Numeria. As part of her agreement, she agrees to allow a Hellknight citadel and order to be constructed in Numeria, and Vicarius Torchia has motioned you all to be head of this new citadel. The rest of the orders agree, and you receive the funding and Hellknights necessary to begin construction.
An enormous enemy of order and lawfulness has been slain, but your work is far from over.
Hey guys. I'm sorry to say but things have finally gotten to the point where I don't think I can continue this game anymore. Work is crazy since we're trying to design several new systems for our show in 2020, and I'm also getting married soon. I just don't really have the time to post even on the incredibly slow schedule we have been doing. I apologize for not being able to finish this out with you. I hope you all managed to enjoy yourselves. If you want I'll post out a generic outline of the way the adventure would wrap up.
You were all great players and I super appreciate you playing with me! Good luck in all your future endeavors!
Knowledge (Religion): You recognize the creature from the book On Spirits and Sufferings, an infernal tome on incorporeal undead. Its name is translated as 'Caller in Darkness'. They are spiritual devourers, a cloud of psychic anguish that seeks to devour the minds of sentient creatures. They live in darkness, and can be warded away by sunlight.
The room is disgusting, blood, rust, and dirt covering the floor, walls, and even ceiling. Standing in stark contrast are the two operating tables, and a workbench. The operating tables are spotless steel, with restraints and trays of tools, small blades, and other unusual implements on them. The workbench contains more and stranger tools, all neatly placed and organized (you presume). Across the room are four doors, with another to your left.
Hovering in the middle of the room is a roiling cloud of darkness. As you watch, you see screaming, ghostly faces flicker throughout the cloud.
Monster Perception: 1d20 + 22 ⇒ (1) + 22 = 23
Kallant Stealth: 1d20 + 7 + 20 ⇒ (20) + 7 + 20 = 47
Peck Disable Device: 1d20 + 18 ⇒ (13) + 18 = 31
Right, sorry. Also remember though that blind characters (specifically Urashu and Morvan) take a -4 penalty on Str and Dex based skill checks, and require an DC 10 Acrobatics check to move at more than half speed (not pertinent yet, but may potentially become so).
As you carefully make your way across the room, Urashu stumbles over some debris and shifts an overturned chair slightly. The nearest zombie cocks its head and wanders over to where the sound came from, but by the time it gets there you have moved on. Peck easily opens the door, and you all quietly shuffle through it.
You find yourselves in a short hallway with two doors, one directly to your right, and one straight ahead at the end of the hall. Nothing else seems to be in the room.
Will update the map eventually.
Balancing atop Kallants broad shoulders, Peck carefully disables the first trap, but the second trap proves more difficult, and something goes wrong. A beam of light fires from it, but unlike previously, this is constant, firing against the far wall and gradually causing it to glow with heat.
"Oh s&. Ummm... we should probably move out of here..." Peck says quickly and nervously.
Morvan Fellis wrote:
GM, how did the trap see we cast light when we are in an Invisibility sphere? Since I'm holding my mace, it shouldn't have been able to see us.
It didn't. According to Invisibility:
...Light, however, never becomes invisible, although a source of light can become so (thus, the effect is that of a light with no visible source)...
Also: map with tokens is up. You still haven't been noticed, so no initiative yet (though if you know you're going to fight them rather than try and stealth around them then you might as well go ahead).