Thaumaturge isn't a caster... but they fit the thematics of Occult incredibly tightly.
Thauamturges are explicitly nontraditional and have various feats with different tradition keys associated to them. They're not occult, they pull from whatever pool they can get away with.
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Thauamturges are explicitly nontraditional and have various feats with different tradition keys associated to them. They're not occult, they pull from whatever pool they can get away with.
Thaumaturge isn't a caster... but they fit the thematics of Occult incredibly tightly.
You're not reading the thing that I'm actually saying. It's possible that this sort of thematic analysis is alien to your experience. Believe or disbelieve as you see fit. Still, I'm telling it like it is. There is a strong thematic connection there... just like there's a somewhat weaker one from the Arcane to Secrets of Magic. If you can't see it for yourself based on what I've said already, I'm not going to put in the work to try to convince you.
By this point, books that are strongly themed to one magic type is not particularly unusual for PF2. I wouldn't be shocked to see another.
/************/
Edit: I'm about to make myself a liar.
Look. The Thaumaturge is all about grabbing little scrips and scraps of strange lore from basically everywhere they can find and cobbling them together into something effective. That's why they have feats that grab from every magical tradition - because that's yet more places to grab scraps from. It's also an incredibly Occult way to approach things. Like, yeah, they might wind up with some primal magic, but they do it by treating it in exactly the same way that scholars of the Occult treat everything.
Does that maybe help it make more sense?
A liar and a double-poster. Truly, my perfidy knows no bounds.
Okay... so now I also find myself looking back at this. Feb 28.
As excited I am about the next wave of product announcements, it's what's coming after these, next summer, that I'm MOST excited about. Boy howdy are people going to go nuts.
- "The Next Wave" was Tian Xia, at bare minimum. Cool. The Tian Xia books had every bit of the awesome that the pre-hype led us to expect.
- It's not the new PF2 video games. Those were announced in Spring.- It's not the remaster. This is April. It's still spring.
- It's not whatever rulebook we're going to have teased at paizocon. Summer starts June 21. Paizocon is late May. That's still Spring.
So, compared to all that? What is it that's so impressive that in the mind of the Director of Brand Strategy it overshadows all of that? What kind of madness is getting announced this Summer?
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A liar and a double-poster. Truly, my perfidy knows no bounds.
Okay... so now I also find myself looking back at this. Feb 28.
As excited I am about the next wave of product announcements, it's what's coming after these, next summer, that I'm MOST excited about. Boy howdy are people going to go nuts.- "The Next Wave" was Tian Xia, at bare minimum. Cool. The Tian Xia books had every bit of the awesome that the pre-hype led us to expect.
- It's not the new PF2 video games. Those were announced in Spring.
- It's not the remaster. This is April. It's still spring.
- It's not whatever rulebook we're going to have teased at paizocon. Summer starts June 21. Paizocon is late May. That's still Spring.So, compared to all that? What is it that's so impressive that in the mind of the Director of Brand Strategy it overshadows all of that? What kind of madness is getting announced this Summer?
Secrets of Purepurin.
- It's not the new PF2 video games. Those were announced in Spring.
Say what? Where was this?
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A liar and a double-poster. Truly, my perfidy knows no bounds.
Okay... so now I also find myself looking back at this. Feb 28.
As excited I am about the next wave of product announcements, it's what's coming after these, next summer, that I'm MOST excited about. Boy howdy are people going to go nuts.- "The Next Wave" was Tian Xia, at bare minimum. Cool. The Tian Xia books had every bit of the awesome that the pre-hype led us to expect.
- It's not the new PF2 video games. Those were announced in Spring.
- It's not the remaster. This is April. It's still spring.
- It's not whatever rulebook we're going to have teased at paizocon. Summer starts June 21. Paizocon is late May. That's still Spring.So, compared to all that? What is it that's so impressive that in the mind of the Director of Brand Strategy it overshadows all of that? What kind of madness is getting announced this Summer?
In my wildest dreams, this is a Divine book (full new Shaman class, some kind of less-than-a-class option(s) to scratch the Inquisitor itch, maybe even some new Champion toys) alongside an Arcadia push in Lost Omens.
Say what? Where was this?
- It's not the new PF2 video games. Those were announced in Spring.
While they weren't explicitly said to be Pathfinder 2e, they are assumed to be so by many. More info here.
In my wildest dreams, this is a Divine book (full new Shaman class, some kind of less-than-a-class option(s) to scratch the Inquisitor itch, maybe even some new Champion toys) alongside an Arcadia push in Lost Omens.
The Divine Book is a real possibility for the rulebook that gets announced at Paizocon... but they're not going to announce two rulebooks back to back like that, right?
Design Manager
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In my wildest dreams, this is a Divine book (full new Shaman class, some kind of less-than-a-class option(s) to scratch the Inquisitor itch, maybe even some new Champion toys) alongside an Arcadia push in Lost Omens.The Divine Book is a real possibility for the rulebook that gets announced at Paizocon... but they're not going to announce two rulebooks back to back like that, right?
If I worked at Paizo, I'd probably announce one new big sexy rulebook not directly related to the remaster at or around PaizoCon, and then announce another, equally sexy rulebook at GenCon, just so people spend as much of the year going "Holy crap Paizo, you all actually listen and have amazing ideas for new ways to grow the game that we didn't even realize we wanted? When does this deluge of goodies stop?!? When do you sleep?"
To which my answers would probably be "Yes, hopefully never, and maybe in August."
Assuming I were a Paizo employee.
In my wildest dreams, this is a Divine book (full new Shaman class, some kind of less-than-a-class option(s) to scratch the Inquisitor itch, maybe even some new Champion toys) alongside an Arcadia push in Lost Omens.The Divine Book is a real possibility for the rulebook that gets announced at Paizocon... but they're not going to announce two rulebooks back to back like that, right?
We’ll see! I’m very curious what the shape of the release year looks like with the hiccup of Remastered happening.
Keep the faith :p
As a player of the game, and former librarian page(who one day wants to go back and get their masters degree in library science) i very much like the concept of these hypothethical sexy rulebooks.
In my wildest dreams, this is a Divine book (full new Shaman class, some kind of less-than-a-class option(s) to scratch the Inquisitor itch, maybe even some new Champion toys) alongside an Arcadia push in Lost Omens.The Divine Book is a real possibility for the rulebook that gets announced at Paizocon... but they're not going to announce two rulebooks back to back like that, right?
Even if Michael didn't already address this, I'm a little curious why you'd think that in the first place. They normally announce a rulebook around PaizoCon and another around GenCon. Treasure Vault, Bestiary 3, and Book of the Dead were all announced at PaizoCon if I'm remembering correctly.
I'm not really criticizing, I'm just sort of curious where this comes from, because you're not the first person I've encountered that underestimated Paizo's output.
Edit: Though if this is a factor, and it may be more wishing good vibes and pleasant rest to Paizo's staff, then okay.
"When do you sleep?"
" maybe in August."
In my wildest dreams, this is a Divine book (full new Shaman class, some kind of less-than-a-class option(s) to scratch the Inquisitor itch, maybe even some new Champion toys) alongside an Arcadia push in Lost Omens.The Divine Book is a real possibility for the rulebook that gets announced at Paizocon... but they're not going to announce two rulebooks back to back like that, right?"... When do you sleep?"
To which my answers would probably be "... maybe in August."
I am as we speak summoning some sprites with sleep arrows to send to the Paizo offices. What's the sprite vs. goblin matchup look like?
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In my wildest dreams, this is a Divine book (full new Shaman class, some kind of less-than-a-class option(s) to scratch the Inquisitor itch, maybe even some new Champion toys) alongside an Arcadia push in Lost Omens.The Divine Book is a real possibility for the rulebook that gets announced at Paizocon... but they're not going to announce two rulebooks back to back like that, right?If I worked at Paizo, I'd probably announce one new big sexy rulebook not directly related to the remaster at or around PaizoCon, and then announce another, equally sexy rulebook at GenCon, just so people spend as much of the year going "Holy crap Paizo, you all actually listen and have amazing ideas for new ways to grow the game that we didn't even realize we wanted? When does this deluge of goodies stop?!? When do you sleep?"
To which my answers would probably be "Yes, hopefully never, and maybe in August."
Assuming I were a Paizo employee.
That sounds pretty cool they should think about hiring you.
stuff
Ignore that post. I had a bad headache earlier and I think I came across a LOT more aggressive than intended.
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What framework might a Divine Book use, compared to an elemental lens on primal-adjacent themes or the spooky case files of an occult-ish investigator?
I’ll make a called shot and say our next class is Shaman. The clearest IRL parallel for that maps to Tian Xia, where we know the Lost Omens line is going next, while the term has also been (largely misattributed) to spiritual practices of folks we might well see in Arcadia, which has a ton of demand. Perhaps the private notes of a wandering shaman, hoping to learn all the many “spirits” of Golarions countless faiths, could be this book? Breathless accounts of everything from Asmodean cathedrals of sin to the rebellion of the Old Sun Gods… this could be a killer little theological travelogue.
There’s also something to be said for Vudra and its Thousand Gods, but I can’t quite thread the thought right now. A Divine book followed by 2e Mythic is probably the two most bombastic rulebooks I could imagine?
Even if Michael didn't already address this, I'm a little curious why you'd think that in the first place. They normally announce a rulebook around PaizoCon and another around GenCon. Treasure Vault, Bestiary 3, and Book of the Dead were all announced at PaizoCon if I'm remembering correctly.
I'm not really criticizing, I'm just sort of curious where this comes from, because you're not the first person I've encountered that underestimated Paizo's output.
So I was apparently entirely incorrect, and that's cool, but the thought pattern was basically that I don't have any particular memory of Paizo's specific yearly cycles, but I do have some vague concept of roughly how frequently new books come out. I'm pretty sure they're not bringing out 4 new rulebooks a year. (On going back and checking, they brought out three in 2021, which was the first year I was really paying any sort of attention, and I wasn't even aware of Bestiary 3 dropping. They brought out 2 in 2022. They will have brought out 2 in 2023... so it turns out my intuition on this isn't just fabricated out of nothing, which is honestly a bit of a relief.) As such, announcing one in spring, and then turning around and announcing another one in the summer just feels faster than I expect. I hadn't been tracking on "well, first there's Paizocon, and then there's Gencon" which, yes, is a fine reason to rearrange the announcement schedule a bit.
While they weren't explicitly said to be Pathfinder 2e, they are assumed to be so by many. More info here.
Thanks, Fumarole.
I enjoyed the Kingmaker CRPG. Haven't played Wrath of the Righteous yet. I look forward to more. :-)
OT: If anyone were thinking of getting an MLIS, I'd recommend you first get a CS degree (since computers run the library). Pairing the two degrees will open an amazing number of doors for you.
There are a lot of subjects I could wish I had a degree or three in, but at 75 I'd only be starting them if I were Lazarus Long. :-)
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A lot of people have mentioned that it feels like the recent Grandmother's Story posts from Paizo have been teasing a future product, so I'm wondering what everyone's predictions on that are. The two main leads from this are these new Wardens of the Wild they're introducing, and that Baranthet and his grandmother seem to likely be lizardfolk from Droon.
Personally I'm betting on some sort of wilderness themed book with the Wardens tied into it, it feels like there's not been enough buildup for a book featuring Droon in it as of yet. It would be a great opportunity to introduce Shifter and Shaman classes, and if so I wonder if Baranthet might be our future iconic for either of those.
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A lot of people have mentioned that it feels like the recent Grandmother's Story posts from Paizo have been teasing a future product, so I'm wondering what everyone's predictions on that are. The two main leads from this are these new Wardens of the Wild they're introducing, and that Baranthet and his grandmother seem to likely be lizardfolk from Droon.
Personally I'm betting on some sort of wilderness themed book with the Wardens tied into it, it feels like there's not been enough buildup for a book featuring Droon in it as of yet. It would be a great opportunity to introduce Shifter and Shaman classes, and if so I wonder if Baranthet might be our future iconic for either of those.
Huh. Yeah - Shifter/Shaman would make a lot of sense as a class pair... and if we are headed north into the Saga Lands soon, then slapping a wilderness-themed rulebook in place first would also make a lot of sense.
If we do get such a book, I'd be taking it as a near-confirm of @keftiu's Saga Lands -> Arcadia hypothesis.
Ah well. We're pretty much guaranteed to circle back to Vudra at some point, and getting a few more classes out in play and getting comments between now and then will mean that there's a higher weirdness budget for whatever classes they might (please???) fit into the Book of Abberations. I am content.
Of course, there are also reasons to think it might not be going that way.
- *Are* Shamans supposed to be Primal? If they're running off the Divine list, then they might not work so well for this one.
- If they are, it means that we're getting two Primal books (this and RotE) really pretty close together. They're different kinds of Primal, but it's still a bit of a thing. If they're teasing it now, they're teasing it for Paizocon.
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If we're getting them, I'd hope that Shifter is explicitly not just Primal. Different subclasses based on the different traditions would be nice.
If we're getting them, I hope that Shifter doesn't have any actual spells at all... or in any other way run off of primarily daily resources. Apart from that? I'm prepared to be happy with whatever comes.
Seriously, I'll probably be happy regardless. I got Kineticist coming. Like, having even more classes who can do nifty magic stuff without icky spell slots would certainly be nice, but really? I'm good.
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I hope that Shifter (if we get it) doesn't come with anathema. I'd like it to be primal or arcane, but so long as it isn't locked down by a bunch of restrictions that make it Druid 2, I can work with it.
It would be cool to get different subclasses of shifter for sure. You could have the classic chimera animal version, maybe an alchemy body horror version, an undead or plant version? Lots to play with there, no reason to limit it to nature
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I would have expected the Grandmother's Tales to lead us eventually to Southern Garund, which IMO would be awesome.
I never really liked the first edition Shifter. Or the Shaman for that matter. Hopefully Paizo can do better with these classes in second edition, assuming they do them at all.
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It would be cool to get different subclasses of shifter for sure. You could have the classic chimera animal version, maybe an alchemy body horror version, an undead or plant version? Lots to play with there, no reason to limit it to nature
I missed the "or" between the undead and plant part and now it's making me think of how fun it would be to be able to mix together different subclasses for the shifter.
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A Druid-adjacent Shifter does very little for me, but if such a class had room for aberrant and alchemical flavor, I'd eat it up! One of the many reasons I'm hoping for a 2e Synthesist Sorcerer is that urge to be a messed-up freaky weirdo as my character's defining thing.
So I was apparently entirely incorrect, and that's cool, but the thought pattern was basically that I don't have any particular memory of Paizo's specific yearly cycles, but I do have some vague concept of roughly how frequently new books come out. I'm pretty sure they're not bringing out 4 new rulebooks a year. (On going back and checking, they brought out three in 2021, which was the first year I was really paying any sort of attention, and I wasn't even aware of Bestiary 3 dropping. They brought out 2 in 2022. They will have brought out 2 in 2023... so it turns out my intuition on this isn't just fabricated out of nothing, which is honestly a bit of a relief.) As such, announcing one in spring, and then turning around and announcing another one in the summer just feels faster than I expect. I hadn't been tracking on "well, first there's Paizocon, and then there's Gencon" which, yes, is a fine reason to rearrange the announcement schedule a bit.Even if Michael didn't already address this, I'm a little curious why you'd think that in the first place. They normally announce a rulebook around PaizoCon and another around GenCon. Treasure Vault, Bestiary 3, and Book of the Dead were all announced at PaizoCon if I'm remembering correctly.
I'm not really criticizing, I'm just sort of curious where this comes from, because you're not the first person I've encountered that underestimated Paizo's output.
The rulebook product page specifies they try to do 3 rulebooks a year. Which they have generally done since releasing PF2, with the exception of last year.
2023 will have 4 rulebooks, not 2. You’re forgetting the remasters. Next year also looks like it might have 4 with the two remasters. Possibly 5.
They have announced a rulebook at both Paizocon and Gencon each year since releasing PF2. I don’t think that’ll hold for this year, so to remasters, but who knows?
Lost Omens are the line they try to do 4 a year.
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I'd like to think the grandmother's tales posts are teasing something in Droon as many have predicted. A Shifter/Shaman book similar to Rage of Elements would be amazing, but I think it might be too early to start teasing something like that? Could be wrong, as I don't know how the reveal schedule usually goes.
On another note, we know the Tian Xia books are coming in 2024, right? So unless I've missed something the spot for the big November Lost Omens release like Mwangi and Impossible Lands is still open. This is purely wishful thinking, but what if that's teasing Southern Garund? With nations like Droon, Murraseth and Holomog.