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I understand the move away from a gishy necromancer, but osteo armaments is one of my favorite feats ever. Having a scaling, disposable weapon you can create with an action is extremely cool and I really hope it finds a home somewhere. It is what I hoped for in things like mindsmith, soulforger, etc.
I say this in every thread like this that comes up, but a kind of body modification book would be great. Paizo has been knocking it out of the park with the more focused caster (or at least casterish) classes like psychic, necromancer, and kineticist if it qualifies as such. To me, a transmutation/polymorph specialist makes perfect sense to be made at some point soon. Throw in more prosthetics, mutagens, tattoos, etc and it's plenty of content to fill a book and be awesome. I would also take anything that gets us more kineticist impulses, hopefully for existing elements, but I don't really have a whole book idea for that to fit in.
Gotcha. But at 20 when kinetic pinnacle comes into play retch rust should be fine to use, since in either scenario you're going to sustain 2x, blast, and 2 action impulse. Before 20, shard strike wins out in pure dpr. Makes sense.
Thank you, that's very cool. I'll mess around with the calculator myself and see if I can figure it out. I'm definitely not one of those people who focus on dpr and calcs usually, it's just that whenever damage does come up, fire is all anyone talks about and I was curious to see how far behind other elements were. I don't really understand how sustain sphere, sustain grindstone, blast and shard strike does more damage than sustain sphere, sustain grindstone, retch rust, blast. But I'll trust the calc on that I guess. Or is it that it only becomes stronger when you get kinetic pinnacle for the quickened blast?
I mean I understand the averages of damage (half a damage dice +.5 for the average of damage) but the specifics of how often an attack hits/Crits/saves/Crit saves etc are too much for my pea brain. The most common combos for each element at 20 would probably be blast, effortless concentration effect, impulse, maybe second blast depending on impulse.
I never could figure out how to get damage calculators to work so I'll just ask; most of the calcs done here are for fire kin, would anyone mind trying out some other elements? Or point me to somewhere it's already been done? I don't think any element will come close to fire but I am curious.
Honestly fire is a really cool element but I could never see myself going mono fire. I'm the type of player who likes to be better prepared for multiple situations than being amazing in a few. Fire being only able to target reflex and nearly all their damage be fire is just not enough to cut the mustard for me. Especially when fire is the most resisted/immune damage type? I know they can have their blasts and thermal nimbus deal cold damage, but that's really paltry damage. I would love to see some options to target will/fort/AC and other damage types as well. Wouldn't even be too broken imo, since so much if a fire kins extra damage comes from their aura giving fire weakness.
Personally I hope we get more impulses soon. With kineticists sharing a lot of issues casters have, it can feel a little poopy when casters get more toys in the form of spells with nearly every book (in addition to other features on occasion). Kineticists also don't interact a ton with items (personally I love that) so even books that come with new weapons for martials don't help kineticists either.
I feel kineticist power level is mostly in line with most of the game considering the at will nature of the class. The stronger damage options (~1d10 per level impulses) are around the power level of a spell 2 levels lower than a characters current rank. Ish. More of those options across the board would be welcome. I also think that since so much of the caster discourse seems to take into account being able to target multiple defenses of an opponent, some impulses should get variety in targeting different defenses as well. Not that every element should be able to target ref/fort/will and AC, but having strong options for at least two of them is fair, I think.
I think the free positioning that construct provides may be gone? Unless I'm not reading this properly; If you have a minion
To me, it looks like you command you construct and it uses its two actions to explode or what have you.
My main hope for inventor was an option to somehow make their innovation (not construct) into a precious material, but it seems like that didn't happen. Precious materials can be so important for an item, and for a class that revolves around said item, it feels silly to me that they don't interact with precious materials at all. Edit - and I don't think the modification for precious materials really counts, in my eyes anyway. It only counts for weakness, takes up a mod slot that anyone could pay money for, doesn't get extra effects of the precious material, and doesn't increase the HP/hardness of the item.
I imagine (/hope?) we'll get a good chunk of variety in the jotunborn heritages to represent many takes on a giant ancestry. Who knows though, maybe they will be only slight variations on what we see, for the record I love the way they look from all the art in the article.
Definitely hope for more impulses. I understand that each element is supposed to have its strengths and weaknesses, but some more variety for each element would help. Water would appreciate a damage impulse or two that isn't dependent on a reflex save. Sooo many early game monsters have high reflex and it sucks. Something that targets fortitude (maybe that deals cold damage? Makes sense to me, some sort of cold snap) or even an attack roll would help a lot. Otherwise water is probably the most balanced element? I have seen people wanting to be more of a cryomancer than hydromancer so maybe more cold impulses than water. Wood is also in a pretty good spot. A decent damage option or two to deal with creatures that don't bleed would be nice, since hail of splinters and sanguivolent roots are the best damage options for kineticist. Support wise I think wood is pretty good, maybe if protector tree gets a cool down there might be room for more good support impulses but as it is the element is very strong support wise, imo. Air has a ton of good utility, again just needs some variety in their damage options, anything but reflex saves. I've seen that people want more electricity options, maybe a 1st level damage option there and a utility option or two? Otherwise wind only has a single damage option in boomerang so could use a couple more. Metal is probably my favorite element. Damage wise they can target reflex, fort and AC with impulses that scale well, they have good defensive options, and some control. A lot of their power does come in later in the game, so spicing up their early options would be nice (maybe their armor doesn't break plz?). Fire is great at what it does. More damage types for it's impulses would be great though, even if they don't benefit from the impulse junction or aura. Just for those times you can't get around a fire immunity. Something like a pure bludgeoning explosion. Earth is thematically my favorite element but maybe my least favorite mechanically. Only three damaging impulses really, tremor can only be used on the ground against grounded enemies (I've always hated tremor like earth abilities, how is shaking ground supposed to hurt, short of a building collapsing), and all of them are overflow. A reliable set of impulses that can be used anywhere, with competitive damage, would be great.
That's very fair. I guess for me I'm just so happy it exists and is reachable via archetyping, albeit get late game, that I'm not going to complain. But yes it would be a better fit on other classes.
Very cool to get an answer, no matter how we get it imo. Thank you, Maya. Man I'm so worried about you already haha, people are going to be hounding you non stop I think. But I love your vibe so far!
Personally I'm fine with the power curve. I don't think it should be in line with a fully property runes up weapon. But all those situations where you wish you had a backup weapon or you ran out of arrows, needed a light weapon, whatever, it's perfect. I've wanted a feat like this forever. To me, being prepared for situations is better than being stronger in some (even most) situations.
Just wanted to say that I really, really hope osteo armaments makes the cut into the final game. It's exactly what I've wanted for options like mind smith. Not only do I hope it stays in the game, but that this kind of feat (easier access to backup weapons) becomes the norm. It's not going to be superior to a fully runed up weapon, but when it comes up you'll be so happy you have the option to create a new weapon right then and there.
It's a slippery slope for developers to start answering questions, I don't blame them in the least for not being active. Answering one question (especially in a text format where meaning doesn't always go through perfectly) can lead to the same tantrum throwers wanting further explanation or just outrage at the answer. The mindset of throwing tantrums every time you can't get an answer to a specific question is crazy to me, especially when it's directed at the people who make the game we love. We've already had developers quit (I don't know for sure but being underpaid and overworked is probably part of why), adding extra workload and stress to the equation is a formula for a revolving door of developers. I hope people take it easy on Maya too. If they do answer a question or two, floodgates are going to open and they might get hounded by people non-stop.
Yeah I'm not much of a debater but as is, I firmly believe the class does too much single target damage. Keeping in mind you can pre-set runes, the action compression options available, and the current damage output of classes, I just don't see 20d6 runes happening. Maybe, maaaybe if the three main damage runes are the only ones we ever get since they only get you three damage types all against the same save, but I doubt it even then. I know developers want to be hands off while the playtest runs, but in this case I do hope a dev intervenes if the damage is a mistake. People get real attached to nuclear builds.
Personally I hope that runesmith single target damage is reined in and class gets more diverse. More damage types, saves to target, area options, less restricting hand issues, etc.
Personally I hope not, I might be in the vocal minority (that's not a thing) but I like kineticist the way it is. Changing kinetic blasts to act as strikes or other impulses to act as spells would be messy in the way it interacts with other feats. I'm glad we haven't gotten any promises to that effect, sounds like just wishful thinking from people as of now.
I think it's about how Kineticist interacts, or doesn't, with Mythic rules.I probably shouldn't open this can of worms but you keep mentioning this kineticist errata. What errata are you expecting? As far as I know, there isn't really anything that needs errata Ah so not errata for kineticist but errata for mythic rules. Yeah that would be nice. I didn't see that promised anywhere, I'm glad they're looking into it
I probably shouldn't open this can of worms but you keep mentioning this kineticist errata. What errata are you expecting? As far as I know, there isn't really anything that needs errata
I definitely understand (and like) the class as it is now, with different traditions mixed with runes. But yeah I can't help but feel like arcane needs it, needs more niches. And as others have noted, previous rune stuff has arcanes fingerprints all over it.
I didn't even think about runelords, that's another really good point.
I know that magical traditions are a pretty major talking point for some people, and I am far from an expert. But I was thinking about the traditions today when it dawned on me that the arcane tradition kind of gets the short end of the stick. The least amount of unique spells (while having the most spells in general, I know), dragon got taken away from being a more arcane thing, and just mostly kind of bland, imo. What if runesmith was only arcane? Runes just scream arcane to me, all about the study, the language of magic. It's like magic science in my brain. Am I blaspheming of do others feel the same?
Anyone else get the feeling the damage scaling is supposed to be every 2 spell ranks, not levels? Like there was maybe some mixup when developing the class. Honestly each rune doing 10d6 at level 20 seems sort of okay, to me
It works, but as I said above I don't think it yields anywhere near 'twice the output' of a fighter - not even one just using two actions to strike. Just wanted to note that the invoke rune action just activates the invocation effect of any number of runes within 30 feet. So you could invoke two runes that are on a single creature and one on yourself for one action. I think some people are (imo) exaggerating a bit, but the damage is too high I think.
I definitely like the idea of backup runic enhancement, but once per day is a little meek. Good at first level for sure, but I hope we get a later feat to have it be castable at will on weapons you hold/your body. I mean necromancer, of all classes, can do it at will on any weapon they hold, one at a time. If any class should get that kind of ability, I would hope it would be runesmith. I would also love a mystic armor option as well, for the unarmored runic tattoo trope.
So immediately getting into the class (which is wicked) I was picturing a tattoo laden runesmith. But upon reading some of the feats, there are some issues. It might be intended, but there's no action compression feats for unarmed. It might be intentional, but I would love some kind of compression there. Also there are a few things that are specific to weapons that probably shouldn't be. Runic optimization specifies it only works with weapons (the main reason for this post, really), and elemental revision only works on an unattended item or held by a willing creature, not worn like hand wraps.
I was thinking the other day about a body modification style book. Would be right up my alley. Some brainstorm ideas; Class - shifter (with subclasses for beasts, mutant, and machine stuff) Class archetypes - prosthetic innovation inventor, synthesist summoner Archetypes - mutagenist, polymorph/morph archetype (a là captivator), graftcrafter, mutant, tattoo master, experimental pet (comes with aberration pet subject) Pets - mutants and aberrations Items - grafts, mutagens, tattoos, nectografts, elemental grafts, prosthetics,
I didn't have a lot of interest in shifter until I saw the adaptive shifter archetype in 1e. I hope, if we do get shifter, that we get something closer to morphs like that then full battle forms.
Not going to lie I'm a little salty that the thing I've wanted most in pf2e (being able to apply runes directly to your character to empower unarmed attacks or unarmored ac) is tied to a rare class that I don't really vibe with. The monkeys paw curls. Animist is a really cool class and the class archetypes are great. Bloodrager is an awesome new take on the class. Again a little salty that seneschal witch is the only class archetype that's rare and maybe the one I was most looking forward to playing, but such is the rarity system.
I'm mostly okay with uncommon stuff, with the exception of ap back matter (from a different AP than the one I would be gming). Any common options I'll allow, though some I'll ask if the player wouldn't mind picking something else if it makes a lot of work for me (dubious knowledge, investigator, etc). If they really do want to use the common option, I will allow it. I do tend to see how pfs handles things and adopt that stance in games I run, but also characters I play. It feels a lot safer to me to build and get hyped for a character that should be allowed at any table without having to hope they'll allow a specific option. Personally I would be really annoyed if I built a character using only common options and someone disallowed it because they found it overpowered or something. Feels really stupid that we have this rarity system in place, and then people go out of their way to ban even more than that. Pick one, having both is dumb.
Just wanted to note that being large doesn't automatically give you ten foot reach, I'm pretty sure. So if that's the main reason you wanted to be an awakened animal you might want something else.
I looove the idea for seneschal. Was always weird to me that a witch was always dependent on their patron, even all the way to 20th level. If I ever make a witch (I had no interest before)it will likely be with that archetype.
Personally very happy to see class archetypes come into play. They could be an great implementation for a lot of reasons. Making more and more classes means that extra feats per class get stretched very thin. Look at how many core classes get extra feats from aps, lost omens, or other books compared to more niche classes like inventor or thaumaturge. Adding vindicator to ranger means not only do you have less classes to make specific feat support for, but you also have a pretty hefty backlog of feats already available. It saves space in other ways too, not having to add in all the regular text that have to be added to every class. Just pick the things you want to change up and you're golden. As pf2e matures, concepts people pine for get more and more narrow. Not to overly simplify as I know there are some with pretty radical wishes, but a lot of character concepts people want are simple things like 'magus but primal list' or 'kineticist but Shadow' or what have you. The class archetypes in this upcoming book are perfect examples of that sort of wish coming to fruition, with extra paizo flair to make them stand out even more than just 'ranger but divine'.
Damn, all of these sound wicked. I'm especially happy for my good friend who's favorite 1e class is Inquisitor, both the vindicator and avenger sound right up his alley. And bloodrager sounds perfect; can cast spells while raging and get to add damage to them?! Sign me up. Would anyone remind me (if it's been teased already) what other class archetypes are to come in this book?
I feel like there are a ton of people taking remaster to mean a PC/PC2 style rework of the book. Those people are going to be disappointed I think. I hope people aren't upset when it comes out and few things changed.
Main thing I hope for for inventor is to be able to change the material your innovation is. For an inventory to not be able to make their weapon adamantium is so silly to me, for example.
Aww man that's the same time as gencon keynote isn't it? Dannnng
I do hope that there's a clarification on deadly working with bestial mutagen. Raw you still need hand wraps to increase the number of extra damage dice you deal on a crit since it's dependent on striking runes.
A big part of why people want pc3 is because paizo has done such a good job not only with adapting classes for the remaster, but touching up classes to make them more enjoyable to play. In my mind, that is why people want pc3. Lots of people have their favorite class not in the core/core 2 list, and the idea that the issues they have with their class could possibly be fixed (or they just straight up get new toys) is a big reason to want them updated.
Intercept strike getting a bit of movement was my biggest hope! That's awesome. Very excited for the final version! Thanks you Jason
I cancelled my subscription for this month (timing issues mostly) but I think that's pretty lame we were only told a few minutes ago PDFs weren't going out early with physical copies. I'm sure that's part of the reason some people wanted it
Will PDFs be going out for starfinder playtest when the physical books ship? There's some chatter amongst subs that might not be the case
I liked the old oracle but I also think these new mechanics have a lot of potential. I like it a lot. Cursebound reminds me of burn. Stacking detrimental condition gained by powering up abilities or cheating action economy, some abilities get stronger the higher your cursebound condition is.
Welp I'm out at this point. Whatever works for your game, but I hope I don't get stuck with a GM that doesn't simply use avoid notice out of combat and roll stealth for initiative if there's a potential combatant around. Seems so cut and dry to me, a lot of stuff in his thread is needlessly complicated imo.
So is this disagreement about searching and avoiding notice, who is the active roller and what goes against whos DC? And are we in an encounter just because this moment of tension happened? Somewhat, yes. The thread has evolved a bit since it's beginning, but the main question was if I hide out of combat with no enemies around, and an enemy passes by, what happens. If the enemy doesn't search, is there no roll involved at all? And personally I think that rai if potential combatants meet, initiative should be rolled. If the hider wins initiative (and beat the enemies perception dc) they're hidden, so you're free to sneak away, continue hiding until the guard leaves, whatever. Otherwise things get complicated and house ruley.
I'm saying there is no text for searching for creatures because you're always looking for creatures. It's represented by rolling perception for initiative. If the only way to find stealther creatures is the search exploration activity, that's way better than any other option (especially since it includes looking for traps and secret stuff).
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