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The next round of store pages should offer some neat insight into where the setting is headed. I’m eager to find out!
My bet remains Tian Xia, but I’m very good at being wrong.
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James has said that #200 will be somewhat nostalgic. My money is either on a trip to Sandpoint, or a check in with Ameiko. That would almost certainly mean a trip to Minkai, so Tian Xia is a definite possibility.
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James has said that #200 will be somewhat nostalgic...Yup. But swap out "somewhat" for "very."
Hell's Rebels was amazing regardless, but the special issue 100 was even better. Can't wait to see what AP brings in issue 200.
I was also interested that Sky King's Tomb is the third 3-issue AP in a row. But now it makes sense if Issue 200 is meant to be the 5th of a 6-issue AP instead of the 2nd of a 3- or 6-issue AP.
James has said that #200 will be somewhat nostalgic...Yup. But swap out "somewhat" for "very."
So... maybe another in the Rise of the Runelords series... although that would be hard since I think thats kind of mostly tied up. A sequel to Curse of the Crimson Throne or Second Darkness maybe?
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A party of brave Tian-Min heroes heads for the distant and near-mythical kingdom of Sandpoint... :p
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So... maybe another in the Rise of the Runelords series... although that would be hard since I think thats kind of mostly tied up. A sequel to Curse of the Crimson Throne or Second Darkness maybe?James has said that #200 will be somewhat nostalgic...Yup. But swap out "somewhat" for "very."
I would definitely be interested in “Third Darkness” or whatever it wound up being named. Not sure it’s iconic enough to stir up nostalgia though, not on the level of Kingmaker or Curse of the Crimson Throne.
Heh, how about a conversion of Age of Worms to Pathfinder? Or a sequel/reboot set on Golarian?
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So... for various reasons it's pretty much guaranteed to be pathfinder-nostalgia, rather than D&D-nostalgia, and from the recent comment, they're basically going to be looking to maximize the nostalgia-factor. So... something notably old, and very well-loved, that hasn't gotten any sort of remake yet/recently. Revisiting one or more of a character, a setting, or an AP. It seems highly likely to be something from PF1, so whatever it is will have had some years to age.
Unfortunately for my own personal attempts to further unwind this, I don't personally know the old AP library well enough to even know what's out there, I certainly don't know how well-beloved any of them were, and I don't know nearly enough about which ones have been reprinted.
Still, if I was going to make a wacky guess...? Skull and Shackles? I've certainly heard people who seem to have been pretty attached to it.
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I don't know that you can separate Pathfinder nostalgia from Varisia.
Are there more stories to tell in Sandpoint? I mean, I am sure there could be, and the trek from Tian Xia to Sandpoint sounds very interesting in theory, I think everything happening in New Thassalon would overshadow sandpoint so heavily that it is hard to imagine the adventure ending in such a small settlement.
I think Korvosa and Magnamar are much more likely candidates for a Nostalgia trip. Magnamar feels most likely to me, it is pretty well developed in PF1 lore, but pretty quiet in PF2 lore. Although Korvosa might be better geographically situated for a return to an adventure path that might dip into some of the surrounding areas if the AP is calling back to other 1e APs.
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So, as far as "beloved old AP nostalgia" goes that still have open plot threads in 2e, from the top of my head :
The thassilonian saga seems pretty much done since all capitals were uncovered, rise and return dealt with the last generation of runelord, and shatered star dealt with the one other important figure of thassilon. We still have one evil runelord roaming about and trying to rebuild, but making her the focus of a new AP would kinda cheapen the whole "book end" that was return of the runelords, especially since she was stated and could have been defeated by players in that AP.
Curse of crimson throne still have one big hanging plot thread that as far as I'm aware, was never brought up again, which for the sake of spoiler I will simply name "the blue meanie". The blue meanie was pretty much the driving force behind the whole AP (altho not really consciously, due to his current state), and in the AP the player are even nudged toward working with people who wanted to "get his shit back together". In retrospect, this AP seems to be something of an introduction to the blue meanie and the problem he's about to cause, just like rise was for thassilon, and carrion crown for the wispering tyran, and yet that plotpoint is still hanging. Since curse was also litteraly the second AP released, and is frequently in the podium for "best 1e AP ever", it seems quite likely to me.
Second darkness was not well received due to various problems, yet due to being the third AP, being quite important in golarion history (being the moment drow existence became public knowledge) and being drow related (which were extremely popular to the point of being almost omnipresent in 3.5) it still have quite a lot of fans (also, it still begin in varisia, so there's that). It seems less likely to me than the blue meanie, because a big part of this nostalgia seems more 3.5 related than pathfinder related, but pathfinder roots were 3.5, and "very" might imply that it's gonna be some pretty old nostalgia, thus 3.5. If we go there, it could even be a spiritual sequel to ages of worms, as it was paizo most well like AP in 3.5.
legacy of fire and council of thieves don't have quite that much fans for various reason, kingmaker was very well liked but as the remake just came out it's unlikely to be kingmaker related, serpent skulls and jade regent are both considered mixed bags (of some very good elements mixed with some very not good ones), carrion crown is a prelude to the wispering tyran, which is a plot thread that's more "current" than "nostalgic". Skull and shackles might actually be it since it's pretty ancient and well liked, but I think it's actually too recent to be in the "very nostalgic" bag (also I haven't read nor played it so I don't know what plot thread might still be left from it).
That's only for AP plot threads tho, the story beats. It's possible that this nostalgia isn't because it's a direct continuation (or spiritual sequel) to a previous AP, but rather because it proeminently feature stuff that were staples in those AP, but who were since left out.
Varisia itself is of course the biggest thing that come to mind, the home of all of those old AP, left alone for all of pathfinder 2e (as far as I'm aware at least). Sandpoint in particular, "the" town that started pathfinder, who conveniently still have a perfect plotpoint for a 1-10 AP left hanging with the pit and the whole pazuzu thing that was never resolved (the pit who was, as a reminder, supposed to be a superdungeon that james jacob wanted to make but didn't have space for it in the sandpoint book). Magnimar and korsova are of course two other two likely target. I want to say Kaer Maga too (especially since I really like that city), but altho it was layed out and detailed quite early, it was never really used in any early AP, lowering it "nostalgia factor" for those who only explored golarion through them.
It could also be the horror elements, the haunts and the like, and all of that "early pathfinder edgyness" that is since much less proeminent who could make a comeback in this AP (of course, it would be a bit difficult to do without making it seems dated, but if done well I think it would be the best way to evoke that feeling of nostalgia).
The open question is what the accompanying Lost Omens release is, and I truly have no clue what that’ll be anymore. Excited for it!
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Both nostalgic and tied to recent events : remember all these awful people and monsters your PCs killed in Rise ? Tar-Baphon just reanimated them as undead.
The Reanimation of the Runelords!
Last year was so tightly-themed, it's really thrown me off trying to guess at any sort of similar pattern with what we currently know.
Book of the Dead obviously tied into both Knights of Lastwall and the Geb bits of Impossible Lands, with the latter LO book getting lots of support from both the earlier Guns & Gears (for Alkenstari steampunk stuff) and that year's Dark Archive (psychics from Jalmeray), for a relatively tidy package. Travel Guide was the odd one out, but a lot of fun!
Treasure Vault, Firebrands, Rage of Elements, Highhelm, and a mystery release... I'm too simple to puzzle out what would tie all these together. Two traveling APs followed by a Darklands one doesn't say much, while the nostalgia hint for #200 points in too many directions to suggest anything specific. A Varisian/Thassilonian frontier fantasy romp? A thorough delve into the Darklands? A nuanced and vibrant revisit of Tian Xia? Somehow, implausibly, a Golden Road book? 2023's big setting book could be just about anywhere on Golarion, and I think I'd nod my head.
Really curious to find out!
I think we're more likely due an Avistan Lost Omens regional book, as there hasn't really been one yet.
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It is going to be a book containing a warlord-like class, the inquisitor and options for neutral/non magical champions.
*everybody laughs and i sob silently*
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Political intrigue in New Thassilon that does a fake setup for Belimarius to be the bad but pulls a switch where the party has to team up with both Runelords to fight back against the resurgent alghollthu threat. A race against time to stop a second Earthfall.
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Political intrigue in New Thassilon that does a fake setup for Belimarius to be the bad but pulls a switch where the party has to team up with both Runelords to fight back against the resurgent alghollthu threat. A race against time to stop a second Earthfall.
Now that I think about it, while an AP with Belimarius as the bad guy would feel a bit cheap (since she was already defeatable in return of the runelord and she's setup as being a rather "tame" evil compared to other rulers not to far from her), a new thassilon AP with a completely different bad guy would be pretty compeling.
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Any AP with Belimarius as one of the big bads probably needs the option to fully redeem her for good. After all Paizo doesn't want to send the message "mercy is for suckers," to the gaming groups that spared her earlier.
Any AP with Belimarius as one of the big bads probably needs the option to fully redeem her for good. After all Paizo doesn't want to send the message "mercy is for suckers," to the gaming groups that spared her earlier.
I haven't read return yet, is she (and sorshen) the only runelords that have the "sparable" option? I thought that you could ally with most of them actually, it's just that paizo had chosen which one were cannonically spared and which one weren't.
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I think we're more likely due an Avistan Lost Omens regional book, as there hasn't really been one yet.
I think there's certainly merit in that line of thinking... but where in Avistan does a big elements book help us set-up?
Of all the Avistani meta-region books, I think the one with the most narrative legs is the Eye of Dread one since the overarching metaplot of this edition is centered there.
The end of February is coming up, and with it at least the store page for the first book of whatever AP follows Sky King's Tomb. It's almost certainly going to tie into whatever this year's big Lost Omens release is, assuming that book isn't revealed alongside it. Exciting stuff!
I'm utterly stumped on what either could be.
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I'd like to see an AP do a lvl 5-15. I feel like it'd make for some interesting stories.
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I'd like to see an AP do a lvl 5-15. I feel like it'd make for some interesting stories.
It's a bit hard to fit in, though, since it won't plug easily into either the existing 1-10s or the existing 11-20s. It gets really awkward for those groups that want to just run APs... and that's a lot of what the customer base for APs is.
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I’m tentatively betting on a 6-part Tian Xia AP that runs from October 2023 to March 2024. I know that timing is weird, but it’d mean book 5 is adventure path volume 200, and it could be a reunion with our old friend Ameiko.
I don’t know if it’s actually likely, but the logic makes sense to me and it’s what I’m most hoping for.
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I think Golden Road is probably the safest prediction to make with its ties to alchemy and the elemental planes, but for fun I'm gonna bet on the Eye of Dread instead because I think it actually makes a lot of sense.
Oprak's one of the few areas in the Inner Sea that I could see justifying Rage of Elements considering that it straight up extends into the Plane of Earth. Treasure Vault is introducing weapons tied to the hobgoblins, Molthune, Nirmathas, and Belkzen, plus there's tech and alchemy for Ustalav. All the weird stuff in Dark Archive would fit perfectly with the region too, especially the pacts, cryptids, secret societies, and the thaumaturge class.
The Highhelm/Sky King's Tomb books are honestly what convinces me of this most actually, I mean for one there's the sky citadel Kraggodan in it, but besides that these books are focused on righting the wrongs between the orcs and dwarves, and with Belkzen I think an Eye of Dread book would be a perfect way to continue forwards with that storyline and show how the orcs are beginning to work with the other ancestries in order to fight against Tar-Baphon.
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Oprak's one of the few areas in the Inner Sea that I could see justifying Rage of Elements considering that it straight up extends into the Plane of Earth. Treasure Vault is introducing weapons tied to the hobgoblins, Molthune, Nirmathas, and Belkzen, plus there's tech and alchemy for Ustalav. All the weird stuff in Dark Archive would fit perfectly with the region too, especially the pacts, cryptids, secret societies, and the thaumaturge.
I didn't realize how much I wanted a setting in Oprak until now. An elemental plane romp could kick off from here which is a dream of mine. Would also love to learn more about Hobgoblin society and it's ties to their sister nation in Tien Xia could take us that way as well.
Doesn't really fit as well with the nostalgic clue we were given, however if it lead to Tien Xia then perhaps. Either way, this is now what I want.
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I’m tentatively betting on a 6-part Tian Xia AP that runs from October 2023 to March 2024. I know that timing is weird, but it’d mean book 5 is adventure path volume 200, and it could be a reunion with our old friend Ameiko.
I don’t know if it’s actually likely, but the logic makes sense to me and it’s what I’m most hoping for.
This is where my gut instinct is at... but I feel shaky about it.
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With amount of tian xia related content lately, it would feel bummer if there isn't at least standalone adventure connected to it. Like I don't think reprinting fist of ruby phoenix as hardcover would count covering it x'D
But yeah, either next ap is 6 parts and 5 will be milestone celebration issue, or the next two are 3 parts and middle part of it will be 200th
That recent interview with Luis Loza had him both clarify that Treasure Vault doesn't have much setting lore in it (the interviewer specifically asked about it in relation to Tian Xia), and he reiterated the messaging from his Reddit AMA - basically, that it'll be nice and obvious when they decide to do a Tian Xia book.More fodder for the Tian Xia hypothesis : there is an interesting mention of Goka in the Secret Societies part of Dark Archive.
Feels like adventure / AP hook.
So I'm back to looking at this again... I just feel like we're not at "nice and obvious" yet. Admittedly, bringing out the Ruby Phoenix minis is a start in that direction, but beyond that...?
Am I just missing a bunch of Tian Xia content somewhere or something?
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I've reviewed the trends, production lead times vs. the non-AP material that's been released, the clues we have, and what areas of the setting different contributors have added to. I'm actually pretty confident about where the next unknown AP is gonna be set, at least primarily. (Spoilered in case people don't want to actually ruin the surprise.)
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That recent interview with Luis Loza had him both clarify that Treasure Vault doesn't have much setting lore in it (the interviewer specifically asked about it in relation to Tian Xia), and he reiterated the messaging from his Reddit AMA - basically, that it'll be nice and obvious when they decide to do a Tian Xia book.More fodder for the Tian Xia hypothesis : there is an interesting mention of Goka in the Secret Societies part of Dark Archive.
Feels like adventure / AP hook.
So I'm back to looking at this again... I just feel like we're not at "nice and obvious" yet. Admittedly, bringing out the Ruby Phoenix minis is a start in that direction, but beyond that...?
Am I just missing a bunch of Tian Xia content somewhere or something?
Ruby Phoenix getting a re-release and a wave of minis, Impossible Lands giving us back Nagaji as an ancestry and namedropping Wayangs, Treasure Vault having a *lot* of Asian weapons in it and using an Imperial Dragon’s hoard as its framing, Rage of Elements adding the two missing Wuxia/Chinese elements to the planes and bringing back the Tian iconic Kineticist…
It’s not a slam dunk, but they’ve basically given us everything we need for Tian campaigns other than the last few ancestries.
Ack - I typed Wuxia where I meant Wuxing! Close typo, but different concepts entirely.
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For what it's worth: I had a dream last night that the store page for a new Tian AP went up :)
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That's where they could introduce a chef class, and no I'm not joking.Gourmets of Golarion! Famous cooks and the dishes that made them suchUnironically, if they hired a handful of real culinary artists to make a shorter Cookbook (with REAL recipes, ingredients, instructions, the whole 9 yards) utilizing foods that are comparable to those that would be found in the incredibly diverse setting from real Earth dishes that would be awesome. This whole idea is decidedly off-topic so I'll drop it but for a fun one-off, I think it would be neat.
I think that would be an awesome cookbook to pick up.
I think that would be an awesome cookbook to pick up.
Give them long enough and they'll be able to put that one together just by collecting together the recipes they already have.
So... I feel like we've faded a bit because we've mostly drawn what insight we can from the available information. Barring a Paizo rep dropping something juicy, does anyone know when we might expect to see the next block of pertinent speculation-fuel?
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I think that would be an awesome cookbook to pick up.Give them long enough and they'll be able to put that one together just by collecting together the recipes they already have.
So... I feel like we've faded a bit because we've mostly drawn what insight we can from the available information. Barring a Paizo rep dropping something juicy, does anyone know when we might expect to see the next block of pertinent speculation-fuel?
New store pages go up sometime in the final week of the month, and we’ll be seeing at least the first book of the (currently unannounced) AP after Sky King’s Tomb.
Extra exciting because it’s likely to hint at 2023’s big setting book.
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At absolute latest we'll have Paizocon in May. What 2E books are coming out between now and then? My gut says that we'll see something around the time the fewest new books are coming out to help keep the hype train chugging.
Next major book coming out is Lost Omens: Firebrands. That's coming out at the end of March. Then it's Lost Omens: Highhelm in late June, and Rage of Elements out in late July.
Only other book is the standalone adventure, The Emnity Cycle, coming out in late May. And obviously the AP releases (last entry of Gatewalkers, then Stolen Fate, and then Sky King's Tomb).
New store pages are either today or tomorrow - any final guesses on the new AP?
Hard to predict a new AP or if it'll even be related to a bigger release, but I'll throw my hat in the ring and say it'll be a 1-10 taking place in Goka and dealing with Oni plots. Doubt it, but it's in line with some Tian Xia predictions. Also it'd be neat. It wouldn't however fulfill the "nostalgia" hook I don't think.
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Hard to predict a new AP or if it'll even be related to a bigger release, but I'll throw my hat in the ring and say it'll be a 1-10 taking place in Goka and dealing with Oni plots. Doubt it, but it's in line with some Tian Xia predictions. Also it'd be neat. It wouldn't however fulfill the "nostalgia" hook I don't think.
The nostalgia thing was in reference to the 200th adventure path volume, which is going to be in the one after this.
Personally I'm betting on a trip to the new Plane of Metal with the rust hint. If the Golden Road predictions are correct then something with the Jistka Imperium feels like the most obvious way to reach it, but I could also see that starting just about anywhere in Golarion.
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My gut tells me this will be an 11-20 to tie into Rage of Elements, complete with trips to the new planes. However! If they break with their pattern and do an 1-20, then we're going to Tian Xia and meeting Ameiko in pt.5, which will be #200.
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It seems as if we've escaped the day without news, barring someone staying after-hours to push a late update.
My gut tells me this will be an 11-20 to tie into Rage of Elements, complete with trips to the new planes. However! If they break with their pattern and do an 1-20, then we're going to Tian Xia and meeting Ameiko in pt.5, which will be #200.
This feels like the safest possible guess; an RoE tie-in and #200 nostalgia by way of Jade Regent both feel all but inevitable to me, the only question is if they're the same AP or not.
So if they announce something tomorrow that isn't elemental or Tian, I'm going to be completely blindsided. Can't wait!
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Some of the Paizo devs have been really hyping up these next couple releases on Twitter, it actually makes me wonder if we've been placing our bets too low. Even if I'm wrong with my predictions, I'm really excited to see whatever they've been working on.