Part of me wonders if they could be starting an event similar to Starfinder's Drift Crisis since I can't think of much else that would be fitting with how the Paizo staff have been talking about this.I considered a Drift Crisis, but I feel like it's way too soon in the product lifecycle. You want to have all the pieces on the board before you start seriously messing with them like that. Once we see Arcadia, Vudra, Tian Xia, and Golden Road books, then it might be time to be thinking about a Drift Crisis equivalent. (...and heck - I'm almost certainly missing a few as well.)
Oh I mostly meant something like the Drift Crisis as in that same style of longer really impactful event, it could be something that's confined to the Inner Sea region.
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Thinking about it, it could actually be something ORC related and not a new product.
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Tian Xia it is! Good job to those who guessed it
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I was RIGHT - “spiders” was a hint for Shenmen and the Jorogumo!!!!!
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I"ve never been so happy to be wrong!!!
Tanuki!!!!!
WE ARE SO EXCITED! AHHHHHHHH
Wow
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I've never been more glad to be wrong! Absolutely incredible, looking forward to everything that's been revealed. You called it!
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I've reviewed the trends, production lead times vs. the non-AP material that's been released, the clues we have, and what areas of the setting different contributors have added to. I'm actually pretty confident about where the next unknown AP is gonna be set, at least primarily. (Spoilered in case people don't want to actually ruin the surprise.)
** spoiler omitted **
Called it!
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Oh that AP looks fun as heck.
Great guess Keftiu!
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Well, I never would have guessed this. Well, Tian Xia does nothing for me at all, but I'm happy for all of you who have waited for this.
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Six Ancestries is quite the surprise! Samsarans and Wayangs were a given (and two I'm glad to have back!), but Tanuki isn't one I ever would've guessed.
I'd bet good money Locathah is one of the three who haven't been revealed yet... but who are the other two?
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Okay. Cool. So we have a four-book Tian Xia AP that goes until level 12. That's interesting. It also means that the magical 200 nostalgia AP is going to be the first book in its own cycle.
Looking at that one bridge-crossing picture they gave us, I'm guessing that we get heritages for Kitsune and Tengu as well. It would make sense, really. Furrher, I'm going to guess a kappa ancestry. Possibly a yuki-onna? Possibly an oni? (that oni might just be a tiefling) I don't even know what that one-eyed critter is. I'm not sure if we'll get a tsukumogami, but the prospect is at least interesting. If not, it seems likely that they'll be available as familiars and/or companions, or in some similar way.
Sounds like Tian Xia isn't giving us a Shaman, but that's okay. Still, there's space for boosts to other classes. Possibly something for monk? Possibly even a class build that would let you run around unarmored with a katana while not utterly setting yourself up for failure?
For that matter, I wouldn't be surprised to see another Oracle Mystery.
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I'm gonna make a prediction we're getting playable tsukumogami.
Firstly there is some on the cover of the Character Guide, secondly Luis jokingly mentioned that they were going to announce a playable potion ancestry today which makes a lot of sense since they're living objects.
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Six Ancestries is quite the surprise! Samsarans and Wayangs were a given (and two I'm glad to have back!), but Tanuki isn't one I ever would've guessed.
I'd bet good money Locathah is one of the three who haven't been revealed yet... but who are the other two?
I'd imagine that whatever new ancestries are, they are all in cover of the character guide.
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I'd imagine that whatever new ancestries are, they are all in cover of the character guide.Six Ancestries is quite the surprise! Samsarans and Wayangs were a given (and two I'm glad to have back!), but Tanuki isn't one I ever would've guessed.
I'd bet good money Locathah is one of the three who haven't been revealed yet... but who are the other two?
Considering the cover doesn’t have a Wayang on it, I think it’s safe to say that’s incorrect. I do think it makes a wide Kami Ancestry decently likely, though.
So, since this is supposed to be all about prognosticating the future, let's look at the unconfirmed clues we still have.
First, James Jacobs. The thing that James Jacobs is really stoked about (coming in the spring) is nostalgia #200 in the APs. I have every confidence that anyone out there who really likes the idea of AP-related nostalgia is going to be utterly blown away when it hits, and I wish you all joy in it.
The more interestign one (to me) is the Mark Moreland teaser.
As excited I am about the next wave of product announcements, it's what's coming after these, next summer, that I'm MOST excited about. Boy howdy are people going to go nuts.
Tian Xia's two books and an AP were the "next wave of product announcements", here. We have the Director of Brand Strategy on the record saying, in essence "well, yeah. That's really cool and all, but wait until you see this next thing." That's... honestly a higher bar than I'd been expecting from my first read of the post.
Looking back on the list of things I'd suggested before... well, it's obviously not Tian Xia, because we've already *got* that drop. It goes past that, though. This isn't just a Tian Xia drop. It's two books and an AP worth of Tian Xia drop. We wouldn't be getting this level of hype over any lesser Lost Omens feed, and I seriously doubt that we're going to see anything purely location-based that's greater.
So, of the thoughts I had left, the only once I'm still seeing as viable are "Aberrations plus something", "Mythic plus something", "APG2", and "New class playtest" (for some class that's really going to bring the hype). I'm pretty sure that it won't be aberrations and mythic at the same time, because I feel like they'd actually detract from each other as far as building hype is concerned.
I'm also not at all sure what the class playtest would be. We're not getting a religion-themed book, because of that thing about the neutral Champions, and Kineticist is already at the printers, more or less. I personally would love to see an aberrant class or two, but they're not particularly high-hype as such things go.
Mostly, I look at the spaces yet left to fill, and I'm just not sure what would be enough.
Mostly, I look at the spaces yet left to fill, and I'm just not sure what would be enough.Aberrations + Darklands?
Maybe?
the problem with Darklands is that it's too big. Like, from what I can see, the difference between the Tian Xia Darklandsa and the Innder Sea Darklands is about as significant as the difference between Tian Xia and the Inner Sea. That makes trying to write a collected "Darklands" book really hard.
Still... okay, yeah, if you leave that particular issue to one side, that would fit.
With AP #200 being a nostalgia-button presser of an AP, and the first in its line of however many parts, I'm thinking it might involve Varisia and/or New Thassilon. Sandpoint is pretty iconic after all, but I'm not sure if they'd release both that and Rusthenge. Would like to see the follow-up to the effects of Return of the Runelords though.
People going to go nuts after the big Tian-xia surge would have to be Arcadia IMO.
If they manage to add Neutral Champions, Inquisitor (with a better name) and Shaman to the mix, that could live up to the hype.
Luis gave some hope for a Divine book in his Reddit AMA some months back, and I think that could knit things together nicely. I said in the other thread that LN Champions would fit a lot of Tian deities, and Shamans come from North Asia IRL, so there's a lot to imagine in that direction.
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My theory is that we are headed to the Saga Lands for the next big setting book for 2024/2025.
Looking at Lost Omens World Guide, Firebrands are one of the major factions and we will soon have a book on them.
We had an Adventure Path set in the Land of the Linnorm Kings.
The Saga Lands have direct trade with Tian Xia through the Path of Aganhei.
A solo adventure has been announced set in New Thassilon.
We are getting a Harrow Deck and the Stolen Fate Adventure Path will provide additional Harrow information.
When thinking about nostalgia and Pathfinder, the Saga Lands certainly come to mind.
However, I think a Shaman class would be useful for the part of the setting. I would not be surprised if a Shaman is the next class announced.
Also, I suspect if we get the Saga Lands, then that opens the door for us to get an Arcadia World Guide in 2025/2026.
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Sorry, meant to say Realm of the Mammoth Lords!
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Also, I suspect if we get the Saga Lands, then that opens the door for us to get an Arcadia World Guide in 2025/2026.
This is actually a sneaky-clever line of reasoning. I expect the Ulfen-Arcadian link to only grow stronger as the setting looks west more often, and you're right that it makes a great 'hinge' between there and Tian Xia.
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Also, I suspect if we get the Saga Lands, then that opens the door for us to get an Arcadia World Guide in 2025/2026.This is actually a sneaky-clever line of reasoning. I expect the Ulfen-Arcadian link to only grow stronger as the setting looks west more often, and you're right that it makes a great 'hinge' between there and Tian Xia.
Yessss! That is exactly my line of thinking. :)
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I fully expect us to get Arcadia book before southern garund or casmaron, but I really do think we should get Southern Garund and Casmaron first because Arcadia was at least isolated lore wise from Avistan while Southern Garund kinda creates "garund nations have no political relations to south because it doesn't exist on meta level" problem and Casmaron creates "everyone travels to Tian Xia through sea or crown of the world but not through casmaron because it doesn't exist on meta level" issue x'D
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I care more about writer interest than what we ‘should’ have by now, personally. The team (and the fans!) have been fired up for Arcadia for years now, while Casmaron has stayed pretty quiet - I want whatever the staff thinks is exciting to cover, rather than what they feel obligated to write.
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There's a decent chance of Casmaron. Parts of it, at least. Vudra's been getting some love of late, and I for one would love an LO Vudra book.
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So... I had further thoughts on "What is Mark Moreland so excited about happening this summer?
I noticed a few things.
First, there's a quote from the wiki. It doesn't quite feed into the rest of my conclusions, but it's potentially pertinent, so I figured I'd include it, as it gives us a clue what the Director of Brand Strategy actually does.
"In January 2020, Mark was promoted to Director of Brand Strategy, working to ensure that Pathfinder and Starfinder products have the widest reach and provide the best possible gaming experience for players, GMs, and other fans."
Still - he's covering both Pathfinder and Starfinder.
Ans Starfinder is having a Thing right now. Like the last part of the Drift Crisis AP drops in April... and the Drift Crisis is the sort of thing that might change all sorts of stuff. The timing... seems about right, maybe, for something to cover "how the world looks now" after the dust is settled. After all, you want to at least give people a chance to play through the AP in question before you spoil the ending on them, yeah?
...but he's teasing it here. So... crossover?
Yeah... I could see that being the sort of thing that might have people going absolutely nuts in good ways, if it were done right. I'm not sure I'd go for it myself. It'd be easy to get wrong... but I could see there being a payoff, if you get it right.
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However, I think a Shaman class would be useful for the part of the setting. I would not be surprised if a Shaman is the next class announced.
I tend to agree. A samurai might be interesting to read, a ninja could be useful depending on how they go about it (falling into a similar “bound caster build on skilled martial chassis” that the inquisitor might also offer), but a class I feel Tian Xia needs is some kind of animist divine class, and a shaman as Michael Sayre pitched it in the one thread not long ago would sell that class fantasy pretty well.
So... I had further thoughts on "What is Mark Moreland so excited about happening this summer?
Next summer, not this summer. He’s teasing the 2024 GenCon releases, so we’ll find out at GenCon this year, probably.
So... I had further thoughts on "What is Mark Moreland so excited about happening this summer?Next summer, not this summer. He’s teasing the 2024 GenCon releases, so we’ll find out at GenCon this year, probably.
So, what I'd meant to say, and my understanding of it, was that he was going to be announcing it this summer, and that he was excited about making the announcement, and how people would react. Am I misunderstanding?
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I care more about writer interest than what we ‘should’ have by now, personally. The team (and the fans!) have been fired up for Arcadia for years now, while Casmaron has stayed pretty quiet - I want whatever the staff thinks is exciting to cover, rather than what they feel obligated to write.
I think we have to be very careful in extrapolating interest on this forum with broader interest. I'd love to see a hardcover on Arcadia, but I am not so certain that reflects the broader customer base.
Personally, I'd like to see some more inner sea regions tackled first (Golden Road being the most obvious choice). I like that Paizo is slowly fleshing out Arcadia, but I also think the slow approach is the smart approach. Float some ideas and see how people respond to them, and sketch out the individual regions. Then further down the line, take all of that material, revise it as needed, and slap it in a hardcover. I think thats a much better strategy than coming up with a hardcover for a setting that is only half (or less?) fleshed out. In fact, I recall developers saying that was a problem with the 1E Tian Xia book. It was a lot more work than comparable books to have to essentially create an entire setting from almost scratch. (This would also apply to Casmaron/Southern Garund as well).
I suspect a Tian Xia book this year makes it very unlikely an Arcadia-focused book comes out next year.
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Okay. Crazier thought. Again, we're talking Director of Brand Strategy. That means that it's not necessarily a standard paizo-published book (or set of books). It could be almost anything.
So if we're going to go pie-in-the-sky wacky ideas on this one?
A CRPG built on the PF2 ruleset.
I personally would *love* a CRPG built on the PF2 ruleset, and it would totally qualify. Almost certainly wouldn't be a MMORPG, because it's way too easy to crash and burn on those things, but a standard turn-based isometric? Oh, yes. It'd be a nice way to get more people exposed to the system, too.
I mean, I don't necessarily expect it, because I don't know who they'd get to actually write the thing, but it would totally count.
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I think we have to be very careful in extrapolating interest on this forum with broader interest. I'd love to see a hardcover on Arcadia, but I am not so certain that reflects the broader customer base.
-snip-
I suspect a Tian Xia book this year makes it very unlikely an Arcadia-focused book comes out next year.
I mean, it's not just here - Luis Loza has done informal Reddit polling and Arcadia is always at the top of the list there. With him recently taking the helm of the Lost Omens line and being a bigger fan of Arcadia than even me, I really don't think it's unlikely at all. Paizo's got a good number of Native/Indigenous folks on their roster, and outside of Coyote & Crow, the TTRPG space is really hurting for any kind of non-awful representation on that front; after nailing the Mwangi Expanse (and now, Tian Xia), why not continue going for under-utilized cultures in fantasy and doing them right?
The theory floated previously that an Inner Sea book (likely the Saga Lands) happens in-between the two certainly has some merit, but I think Paizo knows Arcadia is the thing both their writers and fanbase are most fired up for.
We'll see in a year! Here's hoping we're all laughing over a Shaman playtest here in the coming months.
Actually, I think that "introduce Shamans in Saga Lands, bulk them out some in Arcadia" sounds pretty nice.
I agree that Arcadia is coming. The only question is when.
...and the "when" is going to be "when they've laid enough groundwork, and the appropriate pools of potential enthusiasm and publication resources have refreshed".
Mwangi Expanse was June 2021
Impossible Lands was November 2022
The Tian Xia Lost Omens is 2024 some time.
It looks like we're maybe seeing... something like a year and a half between major region drops? There's not all that much to build a pattern on, but I wouldn't be shocked if we got the next one some time in late 2025.
I'm not convinced that the Saga Lands really needs that same level of investment, though. Like, as far as correspondence to the real world, the Saga Lands are basically just Scandanavia, right? I'm not saying that there isn't a lot to play with up there, but it doesn't seem like it really calls for the "let's grab 40 authors and put a bunch of attention into getting the cultures right" full court press that, say, Tian Xia got.
So... I guess that I'll say that I don't really expect an announcement for Arcadia for at least a year, just based on how long it takes to roll these things out. In the meantime, it feels like it's maybe one of those stews that keeps getting better the longer it cooks.
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Actually, I think that "introduce Shamans in Saga Lands, bulk them out some in Arcadia" sounds pretty nice.
I agree that Arcadia is coming. The only question is when.
...and the "when" is going to be "when they've laid enough groundwork, and the appropriate pools of potential enthusiasm and publication resources have refreshed".
Mwangi Expanse was June 2021
Impossible Lands was November 2022
The Tian Xia Lost Omens is 2024 some time.It looks like we're maybe seeing... something like a year and a half between major region drops? There's not all that much to build a pattern on, but I wouldn't be shocked if we got the next one some time in late 2025.
I'm not convinced that the Saga Lands really needs that same level of investment, though. Like, as far as correspondence to the real world, the Saga Lands are basically just Scandanavia, right? I'm not saying that there isn't a lot to play with up there, but it doesn't seem like it really calls for the "let's grab 40 authors and put a bunch of attention into getting the cultures right" full court press that, say, Tian Xia got.
So... I guess that I'll say that I don't really expect an announcement for Arcadia for at least a year, just based on how long it takes to roll these things out. In the meantime, it feels like it's maybe one of those stews that keeps getting better the longer it cooks.
They don't need to have all their regional books be for something as big as Tian Xia. Like what Corvus said, the Saga Lands are a lot more than just Scandinavia, they're a pretty diverse region and even though the region is set in Golarion's Europe analogue it's got a fair number of ethnic groups inspired by cultures that get underrepresented in Fantasy or portrayed poorly. The Varisians are very heavily based on the romani, and negative tropes about them appear constantly in fantasy. There's also the Varki, who I believe take inspiration from the Sami people and various indigenous groups around the North Pole. The Shoanti would also be a great way to have some good representation for animistic religions, I don't think they're inspired by any one particular culture though.
Besides all that there's plenty of stuff to build on throughout the Saga Lands. Getting some more in depth info on New Thassilon would be great, the Lands of the Linnorm Kings really need to be fleshed out more imo, and as people mentioned earlier it would be a great way to get some Arcadia info.
So, what I'd meant to say, and my understanding of it, was that he was going to be announcing it this summer, and that he was excited about making the announcement, and how people would react. Am I misunderstanding?So... I had further thoughts on "What is Mark Moreland so excited about happening this summer?Next summer, not this summer. He’s teasing the 2024 GenCon releases, so we’ll find out at GenCon this year, probably.
That seem to be what he was saying, but I did not get that at all from your post, a felt the clarification was needed in case someone else read it the same way I did.
One interesting thought: if the LOCG factions continue getting books each year, then 2024 is likely the Hellknight slot (unless we're revisiting the Magaambya?), which could pair extra-well with an eventual Saga Lands book.
One interesting thought: if the LOCG factions continue getting books each year, then 2024 is likely the Hellknight slot (unless we're revisiting the Magaambya?), which could pair extra-well with an eventual Saga Lands book.
What is there left to say about the Magaambya that a six-book AP from the inside hasn't already said?
(Like... honest question here. It seems to me that Strength of Thousands would have covered that particular topic pretty thoroughly already, but I acknowledge that I could totally be wrong about that.)
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One interesting thought: if the LOCG factions continue getting books each year, then 2024 is likely the Hellknight slot (unless we're revisiting the Magaambya?), which could pair extra-well with an eventual Saga Lands book.What is there left to say about the Magaambya that a six-book AP from the inside hasn't already said?
(Like... honest question here. It seems to me that Strength of Thousands would have covered that particular topic pretty thoroughly already, but I acknowledge that I could totally be wrong about that.)
Luis chatted about the idea in a video interview some months back, but I don't remember precisely where. I felt pretty similarly, but he makes a good case for presenting the organization post-Strength of Thousands and showcasing the wider sweep of their operations in the world. We know they're not just doing stuff down in the Mwangi like SoT shows, but also contributing a lot to the efforts against the Gravelands and sending a team to the Ruby Phoenix tournament - a treatment of them as a world-spanning organization like that could be a lot of fun.
Now, maybe he was just being tricksy to throw us off the scent of a Hellknights book... but enough enthusiasm was there that I'd totally believe we'll see more of the Magaambya someday. They'll also likely be tangentially attached to the inevitable Bright Lions story, which is one I'm drooling over.
I fully expect us to get Arcadia book before southern garund or casmaron, but I really do think we should get Southern Garund and Casmaron first because Arcadia was at least isolated lore wise from Avistan while Southern Garund kinda creates "garund nations have no political relations to south because it doesn't exist on meta level" problem and Casmaron creates "everyone travels to Tian Xia through sea or crown of the world but not through casmaron because it doesn't exist on meta level" issue x'D
Agreed. I'm extremely hyped for Tian Xia, don't get me wrong, and an Arcadia book would be great, but I think it'd be an odd choice to leave the areas that directly border the Inner Sea Region for last.
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I'm inclined to think they put off the Hellknights book for as long as they can since there's just not a lot fun about the prospect of "let's be extra fashy cops, but with like an infernal and spiky aesthetic."
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I'm inclined to think they put off the Hellknights book for as long as they can since there's just not a lot fun about the prospect of "let's be extra fashy cops, but with like an infernal and spiky aesthetic."
I imagine trying to address that is a reason to try and tackle them sooner, if anything. They've been scaffolding a split between some of the 'proper' Hellknights and Cheliax/Thrune for a while now, which I'm sure will be paid off eventually.