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These are all so very, very good.

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Orikkro wrote:
Personally I really dislike this. A dragon wearing elegant jewelry and accents to what should be a majestic creature is one thing. Randomly sticking things over itself and stabbing weapons through itself comes across as punk goth emo dragon. Not to mention how hindering all that stuff would be.

Some people like having a lot of piercings. Don't be a square.

SuperBidi wrote:

Just an excellent write-up. I was already on-board with all of the alignment changes but this really added a lot of life to it.

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Just an excellent series. Seems like everyone involved is having a blast writing this stuff.

Or, like. If you had some external pressures that might drive you to begin work on a new edition of your game, it would line up pretty well with this story you've been planning for a while that could move to a new "age" or at least set the stage to do so.

Entirely speculation. I just wouldn't get too hung up on the current, specific meaning of "lost omens" as narrative is flexible and evolving.

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Jerdane wrote:
Shelyn: Turns out she was dead all along. Zun Kuthon killed her when she tried to take the Whisperer of Souls, but the guilt made him re-imagine her as alive so vividly that he's been acting as both gods for several thousand years.

All very funny but this one is a pretty cool idea on its own terms. Dunno if I really want it to be true or anything, but still cool.

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Love the preview above. Always a fan of cool and new art. +1 for the "going back to source" comments.

On the topic of themed books: Count me as someone who prefers a tightly themed book with a lot of related content and lore compared to a big book of monsters (or whatever) lacking a unifying theme.

Blave wrote:

8: earthquake, pinpoint(uncommon, whatever this is)

Pinpoint could be new name for Discern Location.

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Clowns affiliated with the Dominion of the Black. Killer Klowns From Outer Space.

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The Raven Black wrote:
CorvusMask wrote:

I mean... Razmir very much likely has to be a fake name.

Because would you believe that there was high level powerful wizard with Razmir's ego who never flaunted his power before he appeared out of nowhere one day?

Maybe he originally came from Earth.

Now we just need a kid, a dog, a mean witch, and an entourage of wacky moral lessons.

Left one: Reminds me of Thor's portrayal in God of War Ragnarok, plus a bunch more tattoos. Or Maui a la Moana. Sooo... +1 Demigod?

Right one: Has a lot going on but looks cloth-caster in style. Can't say too much on this one otherwise, so I'm down for whatever. Could be carrying a set of musical pipes, or maybe a wooden shield.

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Morhek wrote:
If Asmodues dies and nobody replaces him as sole ruler of Hell, I could even see all the Archdevils and maybe some of the Infernal Dukes becoming patrons of different aspects of Chellish society - Mammon as patron of bankers, Dispater of prison-wardens and judges, Moloch of soldiers, Geryon of propaganda, Mephistopheles of the diplomatic corps, and so on. Just for fun, make Barbatos the patron of Cheliax's healthcare system. Really lean into Cheliax's relationship with ALL of Hell, not just Asmodeus himself, and tie all of their fortunes into Cheliax's worldly success to forestall a power vacuum.

Make it a pantheon. Call it the Infernal Bureaucracy, or something similar. I dig it.

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Well, certainly not with that attitude.

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What if Abrogail figures out a way to snag divinity? Plenty of ways for mortals to become gods and maybe she's more clever than has been given credit.

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Hm. Zon-Shelyn could be a new pantheon, since SF2 is picking up PF2 mechanics. Would make sense if Thurston's comment is taken to literally mean they are both independently kicking around in SF2's timeline.

EDIT: ...which is brought up in that thread. I should read more fully sometimes. /sigh

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Sanityfaerie wrote:
BookBird wrote:
MMCJawa wrote:
One thing they mentioned (I have it playing right now) is that the Starfinder and Pathfinder 2E editions will be more compatible. They mentioned that you could easily slot a Starfinder monster into a Pathfinder game and vice versa.
Not just more, but fully compatible. You can use PF2e classes & ancestries in SF2e and vice versa, specifically mentioning a Solarian with Red Mantis dedication in a Highhelm campaign as an example.


That's going to dramatically expand the pool of player options, for those campaigns that are suited for it.

"and for all of you out there who really wanted a Solarian class for PF2... well, now you can just play a Solarian in PF2."

My tinfoil hat is that Solarian is one of the upcoming playtest classes. Michael used the phrasing "neither of which has ever appeared in the Pathfinder RPG before". In a later bit, he also says that neither have appeared on the world of Golarion before. Could just mean that they are entirely net-new to Paizo's IP but I think it is fun to imagine this as a clever play on words since SF isn't PF and Golarion is missing as of Starfinder.

Otherwise, I'm not sure what we could be introducing that has never been present before. Tightly-themed classes that fill narrative gaps (like the necromancer thread) could be a neat option.

Michael also teased that he and James Case's personalities come out in the classes and iconics, so we might be able to figure some stuff out based on what they've beat the drum for in the past.

Can confirm. We've been liking Automatic Bonus Progression in our Edgewatch game.

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Perpdepog wrote:
I like how high-level rogues basically become cartoon characters. Double jumping, slipping through keyholes, etc.

I had a rogue in my Night of the Grey Death game. Dude was perma-sneaking and playing peakaboo with Gray Gardeners.

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keftiu wrote:
Could any kind soul with the book do a Ctrl-F for "Jormurdun?"

Only instance I found was a sidebar entry with the rest of the Sky Citadels (minus Highhelm) talking about how the population was displaced by a time event, hryngar took it over, and was finally brought back under the control of its initial inhabitants.

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Kobold Catgirl wrote:

I'm really excited for badger folk. Honestly, I kind of hope they're, like, less on the "anthro" side of things? Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against people who just wanna play ratgirls and stuff (in fact, I generally think ancestries should veer more humanlike with the art, as it makes the ancestries more versatile), but badgers, for me, occupy a very specific genre of furry media. C.S. Lewis, Beatrice Potter, Kenneth Graham, Brian Jacques--badgers are kind of fixtures of the kind of furry media where the animal people are basically just animals in human clothes. I love this art.

Also, my loose guess for the round bug person is an isopod, but I genuinely have no idea. Not a lot of bugs are that round. Maybe a cockroach or a scarab beetle? Water beetle, even? I almost thought "tardigrade", but those don't have antennae. Playable ORC-friendly rust monster successor?

A little disappointed we probably aren't getting a "talking animal" ancestry, unless that's the badger, but hope springs eternal.

I want awakened animals. I love round things in general and isopods in particular. Everything here is good.

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BookBird wrote:

With the Sekmin's role as the big bad cemented and playable ancestry status being complicated, how would you feel if Caligni or Xulgath were to become playable? They're a bit contentious as well, but recent books have made Caligni a bit less evil-inclined, and a lot of people care about Xulgath a lot more since Extinction Curse. It's something I'm having trouble envisioning as playable as is, but probably not impossible.

Either way, our Elves, Gnomes, Dwarves, and Fleshwarps of the Darklands should probably receive a feat expansion that has their Darklands heritage as a prerequisite.

I've always liked Caligni and my Extinction Curse group has been befriending a handful of Xulgath, so that fits for my table at least.

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I've been wanting Paizo to go harder on mechanics tied to narrative since PF2 playtest. Give more things to do with Hero Points. Turn them into a currency that is really supposed to be exchanged actively throughout a session. We are getting broader Edicts and Anathemas, right? Seemed like people in another thread wanted non-class Edicts/Anathema to have mechanical weight since they are using mechanical terms.

I say combine the two: If an Edict/Anathema complicates your life somehow, get a Hero Point. Then have rules that let people do something punchy (literally or not) with said point. Back and forth.

To head off one critique, at least: in this scenario, they should include text talking about not being disruptive, etcetc.

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MMCJawa wrote:
Kobold Catgirl wrote:

My crackpot theory is that dark elves are just going to become "elves who happen to live underground", with no meaningful biological differences. Sometimes elves are just lilac-colored. it's not a big deal.

Kind of sounds like its a more major shift to that...but I guess we will find out later today?

Tomorrow (Sunday)

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Kobold Catgirl wrote:
It starts out being about drow reformers in the Darklands, but then in Book 3 they go to Riddleport and get kind of derailed.

So, the opposite of Extinction Curse.


Kobold Catgirl wrote:
I'd love more options for non-pet druids. It's a little frustrating that you get stuck with a companion if you want to be animal- or plant-themed. Besides that, fey-themed and vermin-themed druid orders would be nice!

I have a character waiting for whenever my group picks up Blood Lords that has a swamp motif. If we're doing themed stuff, that'd be pretty neat.

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Except I don't want spell slots on my shifter. /shrug

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AnimatedPaper wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
WatersLethe wrote:
I want shifting to work more like stances than focus spells, and you should be able to actually shift forms quite a lot even at low levels. Higher levels should remove action costs for shifting, unlock forms with more abilities and movement types, and provide options to focus on empowering a particular form if that's someone's jam. Focus points are too few and inflexible.

Action expenditure then ?

That might be the answer too. It will depend on how the designer of the Class see things as balanced.

I guess being able to change more often will bring lesser benefits than being able to change only a few times during combat.

Sort of like how Impulses work? I could see that, and depending how the final kineticist design landed would likely be in favor of it over focus points.

Over the course of this thread, I've been thinking more and more about the universal/dual/dedicated gates from the Kineticist playtest. You could probably do something similar for Shifter.

One Form/Dual Form/Unbound Form (or whatever) and, instead of elements, you pick from Animal/Aberrant/Planar/Construct/Draconic/Etc.

One Form could let you trade form versatility for being more punchy in that form. Dual Form gets you the ability to cover multiple damage types, movement modes, or control features. Unbound Form could cover the "mix-and-match without fully changing form" ask.

It might be a similar complexity to the Kineticist, at least in terms of page count, so only one class for that book? Maybe a second class if their playtesting process has been iterated on to tackle those more complex projects.

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CynDuck wrote:
QuidEst wrote:
CynDuck wrote:
One of the Paizo members mentioned on Twitter that this book will be"expanding the limits of what was previously considered standard ancestry design," so I'm expecting some of the new ancestries to be pretty dang weird.
Finally, I can play as an airship!
I'm a bit more excited for the ancestry that lets us play as the sound of howling.

Yall are full of hot air. smh

Temperans wrote:

A fighter has legendary in weapons, 2 flexible feats, AoO, Raise Shield, some of the best feats in the game.

I don't see why a Shifter could not get legendary in their shifted attack, 2 feats, 2 general feats, and some very good feats for shifting.

This mostly sells me. Do you think the possibility of having flight in-class might tip the balance a bit? I can see things shaking out similar to the Thaumaturge where we have a flex-build martial with in-class flight.

I personally don't actually value flight that high, but it seems like it figures into their balancing. May as well consider it.

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Big hype for all those here and for the projects they have coming up!

ChrisLKimball wrote:
Twiggies wrote:
Sake brewer looks like such a friend! :D
I worked so hard for that vibe!!! Thanks.

As a big fan of round friends: You nailed this so hard. Want. To. Squeeze. And. Share. Booze.

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Interesting note back to the "cultivator" discussion: There is art on the "Celebrating Asian American and Pacific Islander Heritage Month" blog that is labeled as being a cultivator.

Whether or not Pathfinder ever adopts that specific term as a mechanical construct, the power of entertainment and media to introduce us to new concepts and archetypes is great. I welcome new words that make me learn new things and think the Remaster project is an excellent opportunity to seed those things through. Doubly so since they are hiring people from diverse backgrounds to write about things inspired by their own cultures.

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Counter-feedback: mod early and often.

Keep it up, mods.

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Ectar wrote:
Kobold Catgirl wrote:

Oh, wow! Six!

** spoiler omitted **

Okay, I'll bite: what's wrong with Thriae?

I've always love the various "humanoid+insectoid" creatures.

I think KC is working on a PF Infinite product for Thriae.

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I've been kind of craving an intelligent/uplifted animal ancestry, which could fit in pretty well here. +1 for Harpies, too. Sphinxes could also be cool.

With the animal book being announced and a tease from Aaron that we might be getting a class playtest announcement for GenCon, I think I agree with the Shaman expectation (if they go with a connecting-with-nature-spirits angle) and potentially Shifter. I'm a big fan of shapeshifting and it could be a nice opportunity to get some updates/clarifications to the battle form rules (or build off the clarifications in PF2R).

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CaptainRelyk wrote:
Hilary Moon Murphy wrote:

What's an LW?

Edit: Never mind, found it. "Living World."

To be honest, I would have loved it if Battlezoo's options had been published under Paizo, but they were not. What I would love more than anything is a Paizo half-dragon versatile heritage.

I can get a PFS-legal quarter dragon via the lore claiming that most sylphs in the Mwangi Expanse are descended from Cloud Dragons, but not a half-dragon.

Still Kobolds are awesome if you want to dive deep in dragon-content.

Quarter dragons are an actual official playable heritage?

Pause. Reread what was said. You keep jumping at shadows of dragon connections in a dozen different threads.

Elemental Scions (ifrit, sylph, etc) can have any number of "sources" for their elemental connection. Sometimes that could potentially be a dragon, in the same way that many different kinds of fiends might eventually result in a tiefling/fiendish nephilim. One area of the Mwangi Expanse just has a higher-than-normal number of sylphs descended from cloud dragons.

Don't think about it as "this percent dragon". You are trying to be way, way too specific.

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Pretty sure we are pretty far past the point of providing feedback-that-will-lead-to-direct-change for the books coming out this year (GM, PC1) if they even had enough people with capacity to manage a playtest. May even be too late for M1.

PC2 is far enough out that it could be possible, but I dunno if the changes-as-characterized will need all the much external playtesting. If they're going really ham on Alchemist, I could maybe see that. Honestly, tho: I think we just vibe for now.

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YuriP wrote:
Ezekieru wrote:
Red Griffyn wrote:

I feel like we aren't asking the most important question:

Q: Does the player base get to play test or provide feedback on the changes being made or are we just along for the ride?

Its great to post random lists of things they need to fix, but its hard to figure out if its all set in stone or not.

I'm lost count of the number of times people have said "this next product will fix the alchemist" and still we have something that needs re-balancing because the base chassis is flawed.

I feel like it would go a long way to let the community have some say by:
- Posting a summary of intended changes
- Acquiring community feedback on the changes
- Doing a debrief on survey results/asks/what alterations were made to the remastered content.

That would be way better then sitting in the backseat for ~12+ months as minor nuggets like "Rogues get martial proficiency" are 'revealed' to us as if anything we are talking about now is having an impact.

Player Core 1 and GM Core have already been sent to the printers, and will be available to purchase in November. It's far too late to playtest anything at this point for those two books. And for the most part (aside from a few big errors), Monster Core's content shouldn't need to be playtested either.

MAYBE the design time will be up to listening to feedback for Player Core 2, but given the sheer amount of posts they've seen from here, Reddit, Twitter and Discord, I'm sure they're at least aware of a vast majority of the issues the community has with the system. Whether they fix those issues to everyone's satisfaction remains to be seen.

Now, they ARE having a 2 hour Q&A specifically about the new Core books on the first day of PaizoCon, right after the opening keynote. We're supposed to hear a LOT more detail about the changes there. So I suggest everyone who are asking questions right now, to be sure to be there and ask those same questions at PaizoCon next month.

Are you sure that...

I think Erik said in the RfC stream there's a chance they'll have a proof available at GenCon.

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Ashbourne wrote:
Ed Reppert wrote:
I bet nobody posting in this thread anticipated the remastering effort. :-)

That one caught everyone off guard. We need to start thinking farther ahead and outside the box. I think the first AP for PF3d will have pop up maps.

Pathfinder 4d will have a time travel tool for the GM, so they know ahead of time what the PCs will do, so that they can prep for it. Using time travel Pathfinder 4d will replace all past editions, avoiding all the edition wars, and to avoid the OGL crisis, it will be released in 1970. By 1995 Paizo is so big they buy out Disney and build Golarion World.

Starfinder 4d is released in 1971 using the same rules as Pathfinder 4d. Paizo hires George Locus to write and film the first Starfinder AP In 2001 Paizo buys NASA to rewrite the Starship Combat rules and make full-scale mimis of starships.

To make sure everyone can play Pathfinder and Starfinder long into the future Paizo ends the Climate Change Crisis, sadly that book gets mixed reviews, I thought it had some great adventure seeds in it.

Now you're thinking with portals.

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Perpdepog wrote:
CynDuck wrote:
Perpdepog wrote:

From the Office of Expectation Management, I watched the stream where wyvarans got brought up, and Erik's response IIRC was more or less "oh yeah, those guys are neat. We should do something with them sometime maybe."

Just mentioning it because I've been seeing folks say they were confirmed, and unless someone saw stuff in the other stream I missed that doesn't appear to be the case.
In the Roll for Combat stream he mentioned that they knew when and where the Wyvarans would be included, which is a confirmation
Have you got a rough timestamp? I'm genuinely curious; it's a two hour long stream and I was doing other stuff while I was listening. I'd like to be proven wrong.


Initially misreads the question as being about "wyverns" but gets quickly corrected.

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Seems like a theoretical rerelease/special edition of Second Darkness might be an interesting tie-in for a rebuilt-for-ORC recontextualization of Drow. Might also explain Erik's conspiratorial tone in the Roll For Combat stream.

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Freehold DM wrote:
It's not like pf1e is dead. I mean I'm still playing it.

How dare. /s

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Jacob Jett wrote:
I'm an old grognard, so I'd like to see some companion, henchperson, hireling/staff, and minion rules. Like how great would it be if it were possible to play a character like the dark lord in overlord who primarily spends most of the game directing a mob of gremlins around the map? I'd also love to see more worked examples (i.e., monsters) that simulate large groups as singular multisquare/hex monsters that just do damage when they attack. E.g., a pike square covers a nine by nine area and has x hit points, reduces in size by y whenever it loses z hit points and deals w damage to everything within reach, basic reflex save to reduce damage. You get the idea.

Related desire: stronghold building expanded out beyond what was in Kingmaker. Maybe play with scale, too. We have some rules for a growing city already, but gimme my wizard tower and thieves guild rules.

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Also: Maybe spin the shield chat into yet another thread. The original topic is being drowned.

Karthival's art is giving me big "Rose from Titanic (You Know The Shot)" vibes.

big floosh face

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Pretty sure we discussed it somewhere in this thread in a different context, but Kalashtar from Eberron are the result of a symbiotic relationship between host and possessing spirit. Not quite the fungal parasite angle, but something to draw inspiration from.

dangerous anticipatory vibrating

Religion is also made weird by Baba Yaga's presence. She may not accept followers, or even actively punish people who worship her, but there's likely a lot of emulation going on. Atheist+, or something.

Some of the Eldest might make good candidates. Imbrex, Magdh, and Shyka all seem like they have neat angles.

I also have a personal love for the Queens of the Night. Mahathallah, in particular, fits really well in my mind.

As for Anastasia... I dunno. Maybe her Christianity survived the trip, or maybe it died upon taking a trip to another world with magic as a daily occurrence. Could see it going either way, depending on what stories I wanted to tell. I would be a bit shocked to see it addressed in an official book, though. (With my luck it will have already been addressed and I just missed it or forgot.)

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Also: That is a beautiful map.

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Lantern-friend is my friend and I shall protect them.

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Artists already struggle to live doing the thing they love because our society is built on the exploitation of labor for capital. If you can't afford to pay an artist for a commercial product, tough luck. Learn to draw. Or accept that your art isn't going to be up to the standards you'd like.

Is that harsh and difficult? Try being a professional artist.


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