For those who enjoy guessing the future of Paizo products...


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

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For the curious, Luis Loza did a Reddit AMA today that's well worth sifting through! Paizo's new Creative Director of Rules and Lore answers a lot of neat questions, and throws out a lot of hints (including some lovely little Arcadia teases!) for the future. He also floats quite a few ideas as "is that something you'd want to see?", so those are especially worth chasing down.

Quite a few have me drooling, but I'm most relieved to have some word that Wyvarans aren't intentionally absent from 2e canon - they might just be in need of a more intentional place on Golarion.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

For the purposes of this thread, the comment that High Helm had no particular connection to other products, they just thought it was neat (but may unlock other products down the road), jumped out at me.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
keftiu wrote:

For the curious, Luis Loza did a Reddit AMA today that's well worth sifting through! Paizo's new Creative Director of Rules and Lore answers a lot of neat questions, and throws out a lot of hints (including some lovely little Arcadia teases!) for the future. He also floats quite a few ideas as "is that something you'd want to see?", so those are especially worth chasing down.

Quite a few have me drooling, but I'm most relieved to have some word that Wyvarans aren't intentionally absent from 2e canon - they might just be in need of a more intentional place on Golarion.

I saw those responses and immediately thought of you.


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pixierose wrote:
keftiu wrote:

For the curious, Luis Loza did a Reddit AMA today that's well worth sifting through! Paizo's new Creative Director of Rules and Lore answers a lot of neat questions, and throws out a lot of hints (including some lovely little Arcadia teases!) for the future. He also floats quite a few ideas as "is that something you'd want to see?", so those are especially worth chasing down.

Quite a few have me drooling, but I'm most relieved to have some word that Wyvarans aren't intentionally absent from 2e canon - they might just be in need of a more intentional place on Golarion.

I saw those responses and immediately thought of you.

You'll find my paw prints all sorts of places online :p

Deeply grateful that Luis and the whole Paizo team are so patient with my enthusiasm.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
AnimatedPaper wrote:
For the purposes of this thread, the comment that High Helm had no particular connection to other products, they just thought it was neat (but may unlock other products down the road), jumped out at me.

That made me feel quite validated :P


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Other highlights from the AMA folks might enjoy:

Spoiler:
On Numeria: "[...] I definitely would love to go back to Numeria, but I think we need some solid technology rules in 2E first. If and when we have those in place, I think it would be safe to assume that a visit (even if it's a brief one) to Numeria will be just around the corner."

On upcoming Archetypes: "I've outlined a few new archetypes for a future book which will be really neat. Can't really talk about them, but I think they're divine!"

On the Knights of Lastwall and the Gravelands: "I think it would be a huge mistake for us to not touch on the Gravelands again in the future. There's a lot going on with Tar-Baphon and I think we're definitely going to try to keep telling that story as it develops."

On which gods would make the most fun adventuring party as PCs: "Grandmother Spider, Kurgess, Chaldira, and Jin Li from the upcoming Firebrands book." [Jin Li is new to canon, I believe!]

On the various Neutral options for Champions: "I think there's a good possibility for that, but finding the right book for it is key! [...] If we were to do more causes, they don't have to all release together, though, so we could cover other causes while we try to solve this other problem." [That 'problem' being the difficulty in figuring out thematics for a TN Champion.]

On more Archetypes that offer playstyle changes for casters: "That's a great idea. I know we have the spell trickster which does that a bit, but I'll be sure to share the idea with the rest of the team."

On Tian Xia getting a Mwangi Expanse-style book: "Is that something you want? I think I could make such a thing happen. I know a few people who work at Paizo, after all. We're going to give you peeks into other continents here and there when it makes sense, but if and when we do some expansive Tian Xia material, we'll make sure to make a big announcement!"

On the Darklands: "I think the Darklands are ripe for exploration. They are enormous however, and even a 300 page Lost Omens book would only be scratching the surface. I think we will get there eventually, but it might take a while."

On Arcadia: "As for Arcadia, I've been bugging them to let me do it. If you look around, there's lots of little hints dropped for Arcadia here and there (see: Guns & Gears). It's just a matter of time before Erik Mona finally lets me do it. My new title might make it a bit easier!"

On Heyopan and Braskoff, Arcadian locales fleetingly mention in Guns & Gears: "If I had to place these both down now, I would Heyopan in the Arcane Empires metaregion (hey, you haven't heard this one yet ;D ) and probably put Braskoff beneath the Crown Peaks or possibly further south, closer to the Salt Stretch."

On Shamans: "Where they might exist? The answer is wherever an NPC is listed as a shaman or places like the Sarkoris Scar or among the Shoanti people. As for a potential archetype/class/whatever, I think that we're looking into ways to scratch that itch, but no promises yet!"

On Aroden's fate: "He died. :)"

There's plenty of other stuff in the AMA proper, but these are what especially caught my eye.

EDIT: There's *also* a very helpful explanation of his new title and some internal Paizo restructuring; there's now two Pathfinder teams internally, Rules & Lore (rulebooks, Lost Omens - that's what Luis is Creative director of) and Narrative (Adventures, APs, and Society Scenarios - what James Jacobs is Creative Director of), though the two are meant to be able to cooperate.

Liberty's Edge

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Based on the above, I think we will get Tian-xia, then Arcadia before the rest.

For the close future, I think Golden Road followed by Tian-xia is most likely.

Getting the slavery hurdle out of the way, getting more Alchemy with the Vault, getting more Elemental goodness with the Rage point to the Golden Road IMO.

I wonder how the once and future elements of Metal and Wood will incarnate in this elemental-touched area. For sure they will not be restricted to Tian-xia.


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The Raven Black wrote:

Based on the above, I think we will get Tian-xia, then Arcadia before the rest.

For the close future, I think Golden Road followed by Tian-xia is most likely.

Getting the slavery hurdle out of the way, getting more Alchemy with the Vault, getting more Elemental goodness with the Rage point to the Golden Road IMO.

You might be onto something with alchemy + elements! It feels so obvious now.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber

For all the Arcadia fans, looking through the AMA there's lots of mentions on various locations in Arcadia is making it look incredibly likely that even if it's not next year, it is very very likely to be occuring within the next few, what with us having a full three named metaregions for it (Deadshot Lands, Lands of Second Souls, and Arcane Empires what was first mentioned in the AMA), as well as there being multiple locations which has been thoguht about enough by Luis to list them as where Luis wants to visit that are also simply being called "the [REDACTED] off the Grinding Coast or the [REDACTED] in southwestern Arcadia would be pretty cool to visit." (one of these are also being named dropped in Stolen Fates).

There seems to be in general quite a push to setting things up for making an Arcadia book, what given that they also stated how places like Arcadia, Southern Garund, and Casmaron taking a lot of setup to detail as they'll pretty much have to make an entire new setting makes sense.

Wayfinders

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Not to mention all the other namedropped metaregions on the Arcadia map in Guns & Gears - Primal League, Land of Northern Lakes, Salt Stretch, and Lands of Second Souls (which got further elaboration in Book of the Dead with the grappling spirit, and then again with one of the incident reports in Dark Archive which gave us an insight into Tomalán, and the Reborn Soul background).

That said, several of Luis's responses seem to openly confirm that there isn't a Golden Road book in the works (at least not for next year) - between that and some other evidence, I'm still convinced that it's Tian Xia, but if I get proven wrong then so be it.


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glad to hear they want to do mythic once they have a spot for it down the road & so my wait continues.


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Luis very kindly did a whole mountain of additional replies! Some more interesting harvests for y'all to read:

Spoiler:

On what to do differently with PF2 in hindsight: "I think I would have made it a bit more obvious that the Lost Omens World Guide is more of a complement to Pathfinder Campaign Setting: The Inner Sea World Guide. LOWG does work to lay the foundation but works even better when you can read ISWG alongside it and see just how things have changed between editions."

On a Drow Ancestry [an incredibly common question in the thread]: "Yes, but probably not soon. At least not within the next year or so. We'll keep an eye out on a good spot to include them. We would definitely need to expand on their culture so they're not just evil, but I don't think this would be too difficult to sort out."

On which classes the staff all want to bring back from 1e: "I don't know what 1E classes are really left that we feel are necessary to bring over as a full class. I know there is a class or two where a specific staff member has an idea or desire to include, but I don't feel there is a large agreement for remaining classes."

On a 2e Inquisitor and the historical baggage of the name: "We wouldn't name it inquisitor for sure. One name I've seen that I like for if and when we do a similar class would be vindicator."

On Rage of Elements: "I think metal and wood geniekin are a safe bet!" [There's also a comment about some planar cities being in the book, but I've lost it.]

On Large Ancestries: "Personally, I don't think large ancestries are too difficult to manage. A lot of the inherent problems with Large creatures in 1E is no longer the case with 2E ancestries. I think we could do it and we've definitely discussed it. I think we'll have that problem solved sooner than you think!"

On if Rougarous are still canon: "Yup, they're still here!"

Other interesting things to note - not about Luis and his comments, but rather the AMA community! The most common topics seemed to be a good mix of (in no particular order): Arcadia, Tian Xia, playable Drow, the Darklands, Skill Feats, an Inquisitor class, more Divine options, and Numeria. I'll confess to feeling a little gratified that the subreddit's nerds seem to have broadly similar hopes for where PF2 might go as I do!


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Pathfinder Maps, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Lost Omens Character Guide had Firebrands, Hellknights, Knights of Lastwall, Magaambya Academy and Pathfinder Society as Organizations.

Pathfinder Society, Knights of Lastwall both have subsequent books and Firebrands are coming.

I can see Hellknights and Magaabya Academy getting separate books too?


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Ares71 Lord of War wrote:

Lost Omens Character Guide had Firebrands, Hellknights, Knights of Lastwall, Magaambya Academy and Pathfinder Society as Organizations.

Pathfinder Society, Knights of Lastwall both have subsequent books and Firebrands are coming.

I can see Hellknights and Magaabya Academy getting separate books too?

A Hellknight book feels inevitable, but what do the Magaambya need that wasn't covered by the Mwangi book, their two Archetypes, and a six-volume AP?


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

While I feel like Magaambya has gotten a lot of coverage, some sort of Universities book that has Magaambya content but also writeups on Lepidstadt, Almas, and fleshing out some of the 'one sentence in a gazetteer' schools across Golarion like the Crook Lyceum, the academy in Kyonin, the law school in Cheliax I can't remember the name of, the Academy in Kintargo, and of course Prandreh in Vudra, and probably a bunch I'm missing.


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Squiggit wrote:
While I feel like Magaambya has gotten a lot of coverage, some sort of Universities book that has Magaambya content but also writeups on Lepidstadt, Almas, and fleshing out some of the 'one sentence in a gazetteer' schools across Golarion like the Crook Lyceum, the academy in Kyonin, the law school in Cheliax I can't remember the name of, the Academy in Kintargo, and of course Prandreh in Vudra, and probably a bunch I'm missing.

This could be fun! Jalmeray's Conservatory (a school for both courtly etiquette and psychic espionage) is a topic I've been making noise about for a long while, and Rahadoum's Occularium deserves more respect than it currently gets. Throw in a good smattering of Feats and Archetypes for what each institution might teach...


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

That sounds like the great basis of a "Rogue's Gallery" type LO book, like Legends, Monsters of Myth, and even Grand Bazaar.

I'd still like to see the "Grandmaster's Gallery" that I've proposed once or twice, where you have a couple dozen experts in particular fighting styles, each with accompanying archetypes, class feats, equipment, or even class path, but a tour of university campuses seems really interesting.

Verdant Wheel

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I remember that there are an army of Rust Monsters eating the chains that hold the Dwarven Cidatel that the orcs took from the dwarfs


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So... while "spider" might still be Drow, in a relatively limited way, we pretty much have a confirm from the AMA that it won't be the sort of "deep-dive into the culture" multi-book AP that we got off of Strength of Thousands into the Magaambya. They're not yet ready to answer the questions they'd need to answer for that. By extension, I'm pretty sure we're not going to be seeing any sort of Lost Omens: Darklands book any time soon, as "proper handling of the Drow" would be a pretty key part of that.

I actually see something of a problem for publishing books about the Darklands in general. In particular, there's too much detail space for the plausible level of interest. From what I see, the overall level of interest in "Darklands" is going to be on the same order as the level of interest in "Tian Xia" or "Vudra" or "Arcadia" or "Impossible Lands". We've been told, though, that the darklands is very much not a monoculture - that the Darklands under Tian Xia and the Darklands under the Inner Sea have entirely different power groups and even species in them, each with the same wealth of complexity and interaction as their surface counterpart. Basically, in order to do more than scratch the surface on the darklands, they'd need to publish multiple Darklands setting books, and I don't really think there's going to be enough interest there to support that.


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I confess, I prefer books about the people living on the surface. The Darklands seem like a better place for an AP than a sourcebook, just since adventures seem to dole out information "as you go along, and mostly what you need" rather than trying to encapsulate the entire thing and provide a semi-authoritative viewpoint on.


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The AMA has convinced me a Tian Xia book is imminent.

Excited to see how plausible that seems once that new store page goes up. Hoping it’s today!


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PossibleCabbage wrote:
I confess, I prefer books about the people living on the surface. The Darklands seem like a better place for an AP than a sourcebook, just since adventures seem to dole out information "as you go along, and mostly what you need" rather than trying to encapsulate the entire thing and provide a semi-authoritative viewpoint on.

Yeah... my guess is that we're more going to be seeing the Darklands through small holes for the moment. Like, we'll get discussions of the interactions of the surface with the Darklands, or maybe in a Lost Omens book about a region, we'll get descriptions of a single Darklands city in that general area that happens to have a lot of trade with the surface, including vague references to the other Darklands cities nearby that it might also be concerned with. We'll probably see some APs. Right now, though... I basically don't see any percentage in it for them to fail to give us a comprehensive Darklands Lost Omens book.

Possibly... well, if they have a major event at some point, where some chunk of the Darklands invades the corresponding surface world in a very big way, then that might concentrate enough interest in that particular area that we'd get a Lost Omens-style book about that one particular section... or maybe if we do get a 4-part AP about adventuring around as drow and such in the drow lands, we might get a LO for the drow lands or something. I don't think we're going to see any sort of book on Darklands as a whole, however, and any major treatments on specific subsections are goign to need to have some sort of reason why we particularly care about that subsection.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
willfromamerica wrote:
I may be wrong, but my gut feeling is that Highhelm, much like Grand Bazaar or Monsters of Myth, doesn't tie into any AP content we're getting soon. Most Lost Omens books have nothing to do with adventures coming out at the time; it's just the large 300+ page ones that do.

I was VERY wrong, but not upset about it whatsoever!


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keftiu wrote:

The AMA has convinced me a Tian Xia book is imminent.

Excited to see how plausible that seems once that new store page goes up. Hoping it’s today!

Not even close.

Happy for all the dwarf fans! Highhelm isn't so standalone after all, and 2023 seems to be the first year without a 6-part AP. Super excited to see where this one goes, and what those final three books will be! It does seemingly suggest that big LO setting book slot might be nonstandard next year.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
AnimatedPaper wrote:
For the purposes of this thread, the comment that High Helm had no particular connection to other products, they just thought it was neat (but may unlock other products down the road), jumped out at me.

Rude


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Here's the question - is Sky King's Tomb one of the rust/spiders/worms set?


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

On the other hand: underground monsters? Subterranean treasures? Adventuring in the dark?

I'm placing 1 internet dollar on an underdark focused book next fall. LO or Rulebook, could go either way, but I confess I'd be thrilled to see this prediction come out correct:

AnimatedPaper wrote:
Dangerous Depths: an exploration focused book that centers itself on the underdark, but generally expands on hexploration, dungeon crawling, and more natural settings. New options would include a ton of underdark ancestries and archetypes, with new classes would be the Inquisitor and an Obtenebrist, a primal gish that manipulates light and dark effects (think Solarian but literally using light and dark instead of stars and black holes).

Interestingly, it would have a slight tie in to Rage, in that both would be very environmental focused. Which is not an awful throughline for a year to revolve around.

Which of course could lead very naturally into an Aquatic book in the Spring. Or the other way around would work too, depending on what the final quarter AP winds up being.

AnimatedPaper wrote:
Kingdoms of the Sea: Aquatic Adventures both above and below the surface! The key difference between this and an underdark or wilderness book would be that the systems and feats that aid exploring those terrains are useful in most settings, while aquatic play is more limited in application (much like planar exploration). The mistweaver idea I kicked around in a different thread would be perfect for this, as would the bloodrager.


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AnimatedPaper wrote:

Which of course could lead very naturally into an Aquatic book in the Spring. Or the other way around would work too, depending on what the final quarter AP winds up being.

AnimatedPaper wrote:
Kingdoms of the Sea: Aquatic Adventures both above and below the surface! The key difference between this and an underdark or wilderness book would be that the systems and feats that aid exploring those terrains are useful in most settings, while aquatic play is more limited in application (much like planar exploration). The mistweaver idea I kicked around in a different thread would be perfect for this, as would the bloodrager.

A few times in the AMA, Luis leaned on the very particular phrasing that sailing subsystems might take the place of a new class slot in a given year of design, which feels too specific to be purely a hypothetical...

I'm still stubbornly clinging to my Tian Xia hopes, and while it's not the most obvious pull, the continent absolutely has no shortage of aquatic adventure and pirate peril, between Minata, Wanshou, and Xidao. That said, I've basically predicted nothing correctly so far, so we'll see what happens!


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

Could both be true. If my guesses are correct for rulebooks, yours could still be the LO books.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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keftiu wrote:
Here's the question - is Sky King's Tomb one of the rust/spiders/worms set?

Worms.

As I mentioned in the product page thread... we didn't really have the opportunity to give the whole Adventure Path a proper intro/reveal to talk about it as a whole, and the "worm" stuff in this story isn't really something that gets called out in the product text for the first adventure.

But yeah.

There will be worms.


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Well, underground is where worms usually are.


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Interestingly, a Neothelid (big, mean, aberrant Darklands worms) are placed at level 15 in PF2 currently, putting them just beyond a level 10 party's means, but there's easy ways to fudge that for an AP with something like a unique creature.

Thanks for the answer, James! I appreciate how much fun I get to have with all my fevered speculation.


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Continuing to act as a courier for Reddit commentary: some very interesting notes from James Jacobs here in a discussion about 3-part APs. While the insights in the OP and JJ's further replies (including about how things were pretty bumpy recently), there's a curious tidbit I figured the speculation fiends here might enjoy:

Quote:
2023's upcoming Adventure Path schedule as us experimenting a bit with the formula. Stolen Fate is a 3 part high-level Adventure Path coming out in that year, and we're rapidly approaching Pathfinder 200 in early 2024 that we're going to do something unusual and special with. After that... the goal is to try to do a much more balanced mix of low and high level Adventure Paths each year, with a stronger bit of support from the standalone Adventure line to provide additional adventure options.

I admit, I'm at a loss to imagine what getting "unusual" in terms of AP format might look like, but it's certainly something to chew on.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

The longer explanation by Jacobs in the OP there gives me a lot more confidence in the quality of stories going forward. I'm honestly fine with 3-part APs becoming much more commonplace as long as we still get a healthy dose of high-level content. I don't even necessarily prefer 6-parters, I just love the type of stories that can be told at high-level, which 6-parters always reach!


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keftiu wrote:

Continuing to act as a courier for Reddit commentary: some very interesting notes from James Jacobs here in a discussion about 3-part APs. While the insights in the OP and JJ's further replies (including about how things were pretty bumpy recently), there's a curious tidbit I figured the speculation fiends here might enjoy:

Quote:
2023's upcoming Adventure Path schedule as us experimenting a bit with the formula. Stolen Fate is a 3 part high-level Adventure Path coming out in that year, and we're rapidly approaching Pathfinder 200 in early 2024 that we're going to do something unusual and special with. After that... the goal is to try to do a much more balanced mix of low and high level Adventure Paths each year, with a stronger bit of support from the standalone Adventure line to provide additional adventure options.
I admit, I'm at a loss to imagine what getting "unusual" in terms of AP format might look like, but it's certainly something to chew on.

Maybe a year-long interconnected event ala Drift Crisis? Not literally that, but ya know. Mix of books, APs, standalones, PFS Scenarios. Just go bananas.

If we keep doing faction books, a big LO: Pathfinder Society book would be pretty cool and might fit somewhere in there.


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Saedar wrote:
Maybe a year-long interconnected event ala Drift Crisis? Not literally that, but ya know. Mix of books, APs, standalones, PFS Scenarios. Just go bananas.

Going even tighter on theme? That could be a lot of fun, I know 1e dabbled in that with their Worldwound focus.

Quote:
If we keep doing faction books, a big LO: Pathfinder Society book would be pretty cool and might fit somewhere in there.

I have great news: they did this two years ago! It was the first LO faction book, and has some neat tidbits even if you (like me) aren't into organized play.


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How did I forget that book existed. Huh.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Folks shouldn't worry that shorter, 3-part adventures will prevent us from doing strange stuff.

Gatewalkers isn't out yet, so I can't cite that as an example... but... well, you'll see soon enough.

Liberty's Edge

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200 could be a time travel to key moments in beloved APs where the PCs try not to change how historical things happened while advancing their own quest. (Think 2nd back to the future movie)

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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The Raven Black wrote:
200 could be a time travel to key moments in beloved APs where the PCs try not to change how historical things happened while advancing their own quest. (Think 2nd back to the future movie)

Interesting idea!

Not exactly what we're doing for 200, but there IS some pretty significant nostalgia happening around that time. (It's also currently being written, with a deadline of the end of this month, so what we're doing is already pretty much locked in...)


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I've only run 6 parters so far (AoA and SoT), but I've played Frozen Flame and am gearing up to be in both Abomination Vault and Ruby Phoniex and I have the same level of excitement.

I, as well as my players, enjoy leveling up and seeing your character grow. And that feeling (for us anyway) is stronger at the higher levels than low. Leveling up in Frozen Flame for example, there is alot of "I'm getting this at 8, and this at 10. I can't wait! To bad I wont get xyz at later levels"

However this can easily be resolved by running a 1-10 of your choice, and follow it up with a 11-20 of your choice. Giving your players the chance to bring over their existing character to finish their 1-20 adventure, or swap to a new character if they feel the previous one has finished their job.

Something I'd like to see, and this can be done in the player guides, is GM advice on how you could link the story. For example, in the player guide for Stolen Fate, which is 11-20, a brief section explaining why characters from certain 1-10 parters might be here.

Maybe like, the most recent 3?
"How player characters from Gatewalkers, Outlaws of Alenstar, and Quest for the Frozen Flame might end up in Stolen Fate"

Without knowing anything about Stolen Fate it's hard to give specific examples. But for Ruby Phoenix. Something along the lines of "Word of your adventures in Otari clearing the Abomination Vaults have spread far and wide. So far, that you've received an invitation to the Ruby Phoenix Tournament"

Except written by a professional writer and not me.

EDIT
THEY COULD BE LEGACY BACKGROUNDS. Age of Ashes had some legacy backgrounds that take place after the events of Age of Ashes. 1-10 AP's can come with new backgrounds, as usual. But 11-20's can come with legacy backgrounds for bringing a character from a 1-10 into a 11-20!


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
keftiu wrote:
keftiu wrote:

The AMA has convinced me a Tian Xia book is imminent.

Excited to see how plausible that seems once that new store page goes up. Hoping it’s today!

Not even close.

Happy for all the dwarf fans! Highhelm isn't so standalone after all, and 2023 seems to be the first year without a 6-part AP. Super excited to see where this one goes, and what those final three books will be! It does seemingly suggest that big LO setting book slot might be nonstandard next year.

My thoughts as well. We've had too many Tian Xia hints for it not to coming soon. James mentions nostalgia for #200 later on in this thread. I'd like to point out that Ameiko is one of the first NPCs we ever met, and also one of the first to feature in multiple APs, and she's the empress of Minkai. Catching up with her could be pretty nostalgic.

Liberty's Edge

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Wait, so I WAS off base in that it (probably) doesn't feature a Darklands tie-in but it IS a Dwarf-centric AP revolving around the Sky Citadels.

Neato, mark that as another tally in the column that we should always assume that APs and mainline Rulebooks are almost always created to release around the same time with direct and intentional tie-ins.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
Themetricsystem wrote:

Wait, so I WAS off base in that it (probably) doesn't feature a Darklands tie-in but it IS a Dwarf-centric AP revolving around the Sky Citadels.

Neato, mark that as another tally in the column that we should always assume that APs and mainline Rulebooks are almost always created to release around the same time with direct and intentional tie-ins.

Yeah, I was thrown off by the fact that for the past couple years, we've been getting two 3-parters and one 6-parter, and I didn't Highhelm would warrant a whole 6-part adventure. But getting four 3-part APs instead blows the door wide open!


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willfromamerica wrote:
Yeah, I was thrown off by the fact that for the past couple years, we've been getting two 3-parters and one 6-parter, and I didn't Highhelm would warrant a whole 6-part adventure. But getting four 3-part APs instead blows the door wide open!

Here's hoping because the first thing a player said when I told him about tomb was "only 10 levels, that sucks" and my first feeling when realising gate walkers was a 1-10 was "oh... damn I wanted high level content in that theme... how will I even connect a story to that theme"

I might feel differently about 1-10 adventures if we ever get a decent number of 11-20 counterparts (2:5 high to low level half size adventures as of september next year) but that will take years, and may be never come since James Jacobs has said they might do APs starting at different levels (such ae 5-15)

Personally I like to:
- plan out my adventure for the players and read up / prep on the topics they will encounter. As well as foreshadow events.
- create a coherent progression of theme and narrative.
- give my players a 1-20 experience

For other experiences I feel like the stand alone adventures and hardcover adventures are better suited. (At least for me)

So it hurts to hear that we won't be getting a 1-20 for at least the next two years. Especially as one 11-20 isn't even a guarantee.

We shall see.

Currently I still have Strength of Thousands to run, I am happy to run outlaws of alkenstar as a short campaign (and maybe it will be able to fit into the upcoming 11-20, but that will have to be seen. Ruby phoenix doesn't)

Blood lords I hope is solid but I avoid reading an adventure path until it is complete (i read the final book and then work backwards from there for expanding on its important plot points or themes)


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

It does feel like a bit of a shame. PF2 made efforts to make high levels more playable and to some extent even stretched out the gaming experience so there are more meaningful components to add to your kit in the 10s and 12s and 14s.

Feels like a missed opportunity to then have so many campaigns that end at what's supposed to be mid level.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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With Blood Lords and Kingmaker both landing at this time, the 1–20 experience is pretty well represented... especially with Kingmaker, which is the largest Adventure Path we've ever published. You can use a slow XP advancement there and there's still more than enough content to take you all the way through the levels.

And I can guarantee at least one 11–20 Adventure Path between now and two years from now: Stolen Fate, which is the second Adventure Path of 2023, is a 11–20 one, and I'm just now starting to outline an Adventure Path for 2024 which is at this point an 11–20 level one.

My perfect balance for Adventure Paths, personally, is to essentially do a full 1–20 experience twice a year, be it 2 six parters or 4 3 parters split between 1–10 and 11–20, but that won't always happen.

As we publish higher level content though... constructive reviews, player/GM engagement, customer feedback, and of course sales are all a great way for folks to encourage Paizo to continue to support higher level play.


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Squiggit wrote:

It does feel like a bit of a shame. PF2 made efforts to make high levels more playable and to some extent even stretched out the gaming experience so there are more meaningful components to add to your kit in the 10s and 12s and 14s.

Feels like a missed opportunity to then have so many campaigns that end at what's supposed to be mid level.

Agreed, mid and high level play in pf2e is exceptional. Especially jigh level play, players get strong enough to reliably tackle extreme encounters and win without death... but not strong enough to feel like all challenge is trivial. And it feels so natural in play.

James Jacobs wrote:

With Blood Lords and Kingmaker both landing at this time, the 1–20 experience is pretty well represented... especially with Kingmaker, which is the largest Adventure Path we've ever published. You can use a slow XP advancement there and there's still more than enough content to take you all the way through the levels.

And I can guarantee at least one 11–20 Adventure Path between now and two years from now: Stolen Fate, which is the second Adventure Path of 2023, is a 11–20 one, and I'm just now starting to outline an Adventure Path for 2024 which is at this point an 11–20 level one.

My perfect balance for Adventure Paths, personally, is to essentially do a full 1–20 experience twice a year, be it 2 six parters or 4 3 parters split between 1–10 and 11–20, but that won't always happen.

As we publish higher level content though... constructive reviews, player/GM engagement, customer feedback, and of course sales are all a great way for folks to encourage Paizo to continue to support higher level play.

Sadly for me Kingmaker is out, I would say about 1/3rd of all my gaming friends have played the owlcat adaptation and over half of my ttrpg players have played it.

As for stolen fate, I was specifically talking about after it released and had factored in all announced aps, but it is good to hear that at least one might get released for 2024.

Yeah, I really should write reviews for content I have purchased and consumed.


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Stolen fate will arrive perfectly after my AV sessions.

It starts at the perfect place to pick up on and I like the fact it will be a more travel AP after a dungeon one.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
My perfect balance for Adventure Paths, personally, is to essentially do a full 1–20 experience twice a year, be it 2 six parters or 4 3 parters split between 1–10 and 11–20, but that won't always happen.

This is encouraging to hear - that happens to be my perfect balance too. (-:

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