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Goblin Squad Member. Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber. Organized Play Member. 3,927 posts (3,928 including aliases). 2 reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 2 Organized Play characters.


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JiCi wrote:

Going on limb here, to further explain converting inquisitions as doctrines:

- Each inquisition had TWO powers back in P1E. In P2E, we have domains with TWO spells, so there could be an Inquisition Initiate feat and an Advanced Inquisition feat.

- Instead of martial feats, an inquisitor gets feats mimicking judgments.

The first problem with trying to imagine Inquisitions as doctrines is that doctrines are not the class path of the cleric class. Deities (which give bonus spells, access to feats and weapon proficiencies, and bonus skills) are your subclass. The second problem is that it doesn't change enough. An inquisitor would want everything the warpriest gets, and probably trade out some spell casting for better martial proficiencies, perhaps even all the way to bound casting.

A top to bottom revision of the cleric class's proficiencies, with almost everything being attached to which doctrine you choose (perhaps cloistered get full spellcasting, while warpiests get 2 slots per level in exchange for better focus cycling and some bonus damage with a favored weapon, and inquisitors get bound casting and full martial proficiencies) might work, but nothing short of that is getting us an inquisitor doctrine imo.

Much easier to just start from scratch. I confess though, having typed all that I'm now intrigued by the possibility of 10 doctrine levels instead of 6.

I'd still also want a divine martial class of course. There's a few narrative gaps I could see plugged with one, though a lot of the concepts I had were absorbed into the thaumaturge.

Note: I am not saying "just play a thaum" or "we don't need an inquisitor with thaums in the game". I am merely saying the ideas I had that I would have expressed with an inquisitor class I can create with a Thaum. That's a "me" problem, not a generalization.


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WatersLethe wrote:
I really, really want a one handed reach spear as the baseline "one handed reach weapon" that all others should be compared against.

I think Treasure Vault has something along those lines:

OrmEug wrote:
keftiu wrote:
Do we know the identity of those Hobgoblin weapons yet?

There is a video showing 2 of them (not sure if they're final) in some sample build.

Breaching Pike - One-handed d6 piercing martial weapon with the Hobgoblin, Reach, and Razing (+2 damage per damage die vs. objects, ex. a shield used for Shield Block) traits.

Phalanx Piercer - Advanced d10 piercing bow with a range increment of 60 feet. Has the Hobgoblin, Concussive, Propulsive, Razing (see above), and Volley (20 ft.) traits.

see the video here.


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Unicore wrote:
Like you could use the default level of the settlement as a DC for gathering uncommon information/general influence encounters around town, but that could pretty quickly leave your party unable to interact around town, and discouraging them from even trying to get to know the locals.

You could, but I don’t see how that would benefit your game. I would (and do) use the same static DC for every settlement and random NPC, at least as far as “Make an Impression” and other basic interactions go. While this means that even the barest investment in Diplomacy means you’ll critically succeed almost automatically, I’m fine with that. Especially given the rules limiting how much Make an Impression gives you.

There’s a Pratchett quote I keep thinking of, something like “fifteen minutes after meeting Nanny Ogg they’ll have know her all their lives.” My mom and some of my cousins have that ability, and it pleases me greatly that I can simulate that in game.

Fox-In-Love comic on this topic

https://foxes-in-love.tumblr.com/post/187620646410

Edit: All that said, this is for basic, -1 or NPCs with no stats at all. For actual challenges, returning to your point about needing at least SOME ability to participate in influence encounters, I think I agree with you. I can make influence stat blocks, and add-on a skill check to any influence stat block so that even my most singl-skill focused (such as is possible in PF2) can have something to roll, but it would certainly be easier if Influence (and Chase and Research) like Perception, was just something anyone could participate in. At least there IS a defined defense for every character, as social checks reference your will DC.


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Andy Brown wrote:
AnimatedPaper wrote:
actually, I suppose Disney would have incentive to sue Hasbro into tiny tiny pieces regardless of the actual issue at hand, so who knows.

At which point Hasbro say to Disney "here's a royalty free licence for you to keep selling your stuff", which Disney accept while Hasbro go after everybody else.

Don't expect the Mouse to do anything for the benefit of anybody else

At which point Disney could say "nah" and begin a lawsuit that ends in one of their competitors bankrupt.

I'm not expecting Disney to do anything for anyone else's benefit. I'm saying they have a compelling interest in their own right to employ the same tactic that lots of people are saying Hasbro could do to 3pp.


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GGSigmar wrote:
How is Disney using the OGL?

Knights of the Old Republic uses d20 modern.

And yeah, I don’t expect miracles from that quarter, but the threat that Disney’s legal team might be having a slow week and decide to litigate Hasbro (one of their toy competitors) into insolvency might keep the most egregious actions Hasbro could take off the table, like trying to forbid sale of anything using OGL.

I’d rather that crap not be tried in the first place, even over “tried but did not succeed in court.”


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Xyxox wrote:


But Hasbro has many times more money to throw at the case than all of the combined third party producers could come up with together and could bankrupt them all long before a judgement is ever achieved should they decide to go the Lawfare route unless others join in to help fund such a lawsuit.

Given that Disney and Microsoft would both also be affected by a complete shut down of OGL, money to fight an injunction might not be an issue.

Whether either company cares enough to fight the full battle, I couldn’t guess. But telling WotC to take a long walk off a short pier if they want Disney to stop selling KotoR (ancient as it is now), that seems likely.

Edit: actually, I suppose Disney would have incentive to sue Hasbro into tiny tiny pieces regardless of the actual issue at hand, so who knows.


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Unicore wrote:
Thinking about it more, I think the issue is that untrained skills being unoptimal, but not useless was the design for the playtest, so the consequences of some skills not progressing at at all wasn’t something thoroughly tested in the initial development.

This I wholeheartedly agree with. I liked level being added to even untrained skills, and think you’re quite right that taking that out created several problems that have yet to be addressed.

That’s partly why I’m hoping we’ll eventually get a skill focused book that adds on to Influence, Research, Chase, and other related skill based encounters. I could even imagine an entire add-on system being written, but simply giving more options would be helpful.


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Unicore wrote:
I could be slightly confused because flat check to me means no bonuses, so a charisma flat check is a confusing concept to me, especially as PF2 largely avoids letting attribute bonus alone matter that much in any check. Proficiency and attribute-based checks are not super compatible as they mean having to have a second set of DCs to keep track of that don't take any proficiency into consideration.

No, that’s not quite correct.

You are correct that flat checks do not usually have any bonuses, but if as DM you feel they are appropriate, you can apply them. The actual text is something along the lines of “only abilities that affect flat checks can apply a bonus or penalty, and usually only for certain flat checks” I am rather liberal with where and what I apply to such rolls, since I like using attribute rolls, but I did forget that I am unusual in doing that.

Probably a more accurate description of what I’m doing is using Simple DCs, ones that are achievable with just an attribute. As literally every creature can use the same set DC for such challenges (though you can modify them as you like, I prefer to modify the bonus applied instead to keep the DCs uniform), it is a lot less to keep track of than you are probably imagining, and also something I worked out and kept handy several years ago with no need to update since.


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Unicore wrote:

Saying tha social encounters are not something every character should be participating in seems pretty counter to current game design theory that incorporates social encounters into more and more published content.

There is a reason you can’t really be untrained in any core combat proficiencies: every character needs to be able to participate in a combat encounter in some fashion and not have a defense that can be so far behind that the character just becomes a critical failure engine. But having no defense or proficiency tied to your character’s ability to socially get along with others means there are characters who never want to participate in any conversation ever. I think that is a mistake for a social and cooperative game.

Can you clarify a point for me? Is your argument that all characters should have at least a basic tool to participate i structured influence non-combat encounters, or that any NPC interaction requires a diplomacy roll (of some sort,not necessarily involving that exact skill), so all characters should have a basic ability to, you know, order another beer or ask where th bathroom is?

Because I see the merits in the first but disagree on the second. A simple Cha flat check would suffice, if a roll was necessary at all (and well within established rules).


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keftiu wrote:
willfromamerica wrote:
I feel like it's a safe bet that the last 3-part AP in 2023 is another level 1-10. I assume this one will tie in more heavily with Rage of Elements, and will be an adventure suited for kineticists. As such, it would make more sense to start at level 1 since you don't want people jumping into a brand new class at level 11.
I’m not so sure - I feel like it’s really hard to do a low-level planar adventure, which is what I would expect to be the tie-in for Rage of Elements. Something to do with the Elemental Lords coming back, or maybe the City of Brass…

Coming back to this, but what about Hobgoblins? You’ve got the Obsidian key allowing easy, controlled access to the plane of earth, and travel between hobgoblin nations on different continents.

What if earth planar beings began objecting to being used as a Highway rest stop? I could pretty easily imagine a level 1-3 or so adventure that threw players, say the guards of a caravan headed to the Tian Xia hob nation, against a particularly annoyed Xorn and its minions.

Edit: Bonus if there’s an article on the Tian xia hobgoblin nation and maybe a few character options for characters from there.


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belgrath9344 wrote:
keftiu wrote:
Praying for some spooky radiation stuff on the Plane of Metal.
I would love radiation actually becoming a full thing

Hard same. I’d love to see an elemental blast that deals radiation damage.


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Since I’m still making random guesses, I’m going to put into the world what I want to see and go for an Abberation focused book as the fall rulebook, and change my “Underdark” guess to either Summer or Fall 2024. I do still think that a year of “Environmental challenges” makes sense as a through line for the rulebooks, but another beast book would probably enable more adventures and support the high helm AP a bit more readily, since they’re already planning to add the support articles for underground adventures into the AP itself.

I’m also going to just guess there will be an entirely new class in that book. Not because I think it’s likely, but simply because it would please me. I really feel not putting Mediums in book of the dead was a missed opportunity to redefine the class as divine and focused on spooky instead of legends, and so I would be eager to see something added to the next beast book if at all possible. In particular, the new definition of “Occult” as “Stories/Legends/Reflections” as opposed to “unfathomable” makes aberrations and oozes a bit of an odd fit, so I’d be eager to see a class inserted that could bridge those narratives. An archivist (prepared occult, a casterish answer to the Thaumaturge that dabbles in consumables and, especially, spellhearts that make her spells land harder against particular targets)?

That said, I really don’t think it’s likely. For one, a playtest would need to be run next month or so, and they probably would have already announced that one was incoming if that was the case.


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keftiu wrote:
Do we have a date for the Player's Guide yet?

Out now!

Gotta say, that's a pretty fascinating hook for an AP. I'm torn between replaying my playtest Kineticist (Skeleton Fire Kineticist with the Thaum MC archetype), or recreating one of my world of warcraft characters (Hobgoblin/Beastkin Inventor) into the game. Both would be drawn to the "Sense of Belonging" background; the Skeleton because he is several hundred years old and everyone he knew in life is dead (some of whom he helped get that way in fairness), the Beastkin because even in Oprak there's limits to what society would be comfortable having as a neighbor.
The explosions probably don't help with that.


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I feel like Celedons would be a lineage for automatons…if automatons weren’t so specific. The more I think about it, the more surprised I am that automatons are so locked into a particular flavor and narrative. Fleshwarps, by contrast, are purposefully much broader and can potentially be used in 4 or 5 different locations to describe different creatures. Automatons could have been equally non-specific, describing not just jinska relics but leaving room for Wyrwoods and Celedons to be added on.

As it is, I think both could still be added and it wold be a disservice to make them an add-on to automatons. Another, more general construct ancestry could be added that covers both, but again I think that would be a disservice. Both are different enough that you could do both with little overlap.


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pixierose wrote:
I maybe be an odd Duck, but I loved the npcs in jade reagent as did my table. Having strong reoccurring npcs always make the story more personal. Caring for them, learning from them, sometimes outpacing them. I never got to finish it due to player issues, but the books we did got to were really fun.

I've never read Jade regent, and to be honest this NPC chatter is kind of selling me on it. Perhaps because of the Kingmaker Companion Guide, my tolerance for well-rounded NPCs with competing agendas is pretty high.


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keftiu wrote:
AnimatedPaper wrote:

Which of course could lead very naturally into an Aquatic book in the Spring. Or the other way around would work too, depending on what the final quarter AP winds up being.

AnimatedPaper wrote:
Kingdoms of the Sea: Aquatic Adventures both above and below the surface! The key difference between this and an underdark or wilderness book would be that the systems and feats that aid exploring those terrains are useful in most settings, while aquatic play is more limited in application (much like planar exploration). The mistweaver idea I kicked around in a different thread would be perfect for this, as would the bloodrager.
A few times in the AMA, Luis leaned on the very particular phrasing that sailing subsystems might take the place of a new class slot in a given year of design, which feels too specific to be purely a hypothetical...

It occurs to me that an AP that starts in Katapesh and goes to the sea, both above and below, would be a pretty good way to tackle the veiled master and alghollthu themes they've been hinting at. And starting from a high level you can just give the players magic items that allow for underwater breathing and fighting without worrying about it overly.

Planar shenanigans and Azarketis (whose ancestry abilities echo kineticists) can now be filled out a bit thanks to Rage, so I could see those parts being leaned on as well.


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Kekkres wrote:
FormerFiend wrote:
So here's an idea I had today; Nephilim as a versatile heritage.
how is that different from an assimar?

Mostly in that Nephilim are descendants of demigods in general, while Aasimar are descendants of good-aligned celestials.


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Could both be true. If my guesses are correct for rulebooks, yours could still be the LO books.


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On the other hand: underground monsters? Subterranean treasures? Adventuring in the dark?

I'm placing 1 internet dollar on an underdark focused book next fall. LO or Rulebook, could go either way, but I confess I'd be thrilled to see this prediction come out correct:

AnimatedPaper wrote:
Dangerous Depths: an exploration focused book that centers itself on the underdark, but generally expands on hexploration, dungeon crawling, and more natural settings. New options would include a ton of underdark ancestries and archetypes, with new classes would be the Inquisitor and an Obtenebrist, a primal gish that manipulates light and dark effects (think Solarian but literally using light and dark instead of stars and black holes).

Interestingly, it would have a slight tie in to Rage, in that both would be very environmental focused. Which is not an awful throughline for a year to revolve around.

Which of course could lead very naturally into an Aquatic book in the Spring. Or the other way around would work too, depending on what the final quarter AP winds up being.

AnimatedPaper wrote:
Kingdoms of the Sea: Aquatic Adventures both above and below the surface! The key difference between this and an underdark or wilderness book would be that the systems and feats that aid exploring those terrains are useful in most settings, while aquatic play is more limited in application (much like planar exploration). The mistweaver idea I kicked around in a different thread would be perfect for this, as would the bloodrager.


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Oh damn. THAT'S a cool idea. Can't wait for this one.


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AnimatedPaper wrote:
For the purposes of this thread, the comment that High Helm had no particular connection to other products, they just thought it was neat (but may unlock other products down the road), jumped out at me.

Rude


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Squiggit wrote:
Martial arts fiction also tends to emphasize stance and form a lot. Characters will have styles, unique stances, and importantly often move between stances during combat. Just off the top of my head from recent material, the main characters of Ghosts of Tsushima and Nioh 2 both have multiple combat stances they will move between regularly as part of their fighting style.

Another recent example: Evelyn from Everything Everywhere All at Once. She's clearly dancing between stances, multiple times per fight, and not even strictly for combat purposes.

The Ancestor Oracle plays a bit in this pond, but really being able to use stances or a close analogue to change up your proficiencies and available abilities on the fly seems like something that should be well suited for PF2 but isn't yet in the game.


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That sounds like the great basis of a "Rogue's Gallery" type LO book, like Legends, Monsters of Myth, and even Grand Bazaar.

I'd still like to see the "Grandmaster's Gallery" that I've proposed once or twice, where you have a couple dozen experts in particular fighting styles, each with accompanying archetypes, class feats, equipment, or even class path, but a tour of university campuses seems really interesting.


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For the purposes of this thread, the comment that High Helm had no particular connection to other products, they just thought it was neat (but may unlock other products down the road), jumped out at me.


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So, I just reread the entry on Dwarves in the character guide, and there's a lot of fascinating stuff about Surface dwarves. Specifically, there seems to be entire cultures of Dwarves from the Golden Road that we've little touched on yet. High Helm seems to be strongly tied to Mountain Dwarves instead of Surface or Underground, but some of the options might transfer well enough.


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Squiggit wrote:
... magical alchemist options sound neat too. I know Paizo has worked hard to separate the lore but I still find myself really wishing my alchemists were better at crafting potions, there are a lot of neat ones that feel fitting.

I love the Esoterica feats on the Thaumaturge, and think they could be reworked as research field abilities on a class archetype for the Alchemist. I have the bare bones of one; I think I'll try to finish it up this year so I can plug in items that get released with the Treasure Trove.

Talismans, Potions, Feather Tokens, and Magical Snares all seem like they could be quickly made into research fields (2 of these already having archetypes that provide the needed framework), and I'm eager to see what other options might present themselves in a few months. Temporary Wands, Staves, Fulus, and Spellhearts might be more difficult

Although scrolls do present a problem, as the archetypes don't work quite the same for them as other consumables. But I also noticed that Bound casting MC archetypes have a lot of similarities to how temporary scroll feats work, so a Sc/Roll caster seems pretty possible. Narratively, it works well with how bound casting works; your magic is limited to a hard number of scrolls you can create in a given day, but the power of those scrolls increases with experience.


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keftiu wrote:
The Enmity Cycle being set in Thuvia helps, but I don't think a single 2e Adventure has matched the Lost Omens setting release for the year it dropped in.

Recall though, Absolom and Dead God's Hand threw the schedule off a lot. It should have kicked off the Fifteen Months of Starstone Isle. Troubles in Otari sort of bookended it, and led into Abomination Vaults. I can't recall exactly where Slithering was supposed to be; I have a hard time imagining they yanked it up a full year, so maybe it was always where it was intended, but putting it where Malevolence landed would have put it close to Strength of Thousands and Mwangi Expanse. Not to mention Fall of Plaguestone takes place near the start and central locale of Ages of Ashes.

Not all of them fit this kind of pattern of course. Night of Grey Death, Shadows at Sunset, and Malevolence have little to do with nearby releases, except in the most general sense. But enough do (or should have) that there might be something there.


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AceofMoxen wrote:
Comedy relief--Think Pippin and Merry. A character who advances the plot by screwing up. I have no idea how to create this without breaking the math of pf2, but it's an character type that common and missing. In certain other games, you can get this with bard, but bards in pf2 are much more power fantasy than comedy relief.

One of the class "pitches" I've thrown out was a Luckbender of some sort, with one possible subclass being the ability to take on an automatic critical failure (or redirect it off of an ally) or double up on a misfortune effect in order to power up some kind of buff. Easiest I suppose would be to allow you to use a focus spell without expending a focus point, for example.

But in any case, that might be one way to do it. Your character is deliberately hapless and a chaos magnet, but your team is stronger for it.


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It's a great idea, but I'd encourage you to make a new thread for better visibility and topic cohesion.

With, bearing in mind a previous conversation between us, a gigantic statement discouraging replies along the lines of "you can play a magus already just MC wizard on a fighter".


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Very well said Deriven. I can't say I'd enjoy that kind of game, but the important thing is that YOUR table enjoys what you all sit down to play, and from the various stories you've relayed that is clearly the case.


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Kobold Catgirl wrote:
No, I'm not challenging anyone, I fully recognize that it's possible with some extra work to... oh, what am I saying? I don't want to talk myself out of seeing some cool conrasu characters. I love conrasu and love seeing new OCs!

Side note to this divergence, but every time I read Master Ot in the opening of Strength of Thousands I read it as "Master Ood", as in the Jedi that was basically an arboreal, and so he became a Conrasu when I was preparing to run it (sadly, never actually got the chance).

I intended him to show emotions in the form of sigils appearing on his "core" like an LED visor.


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Squiggit wrote:
I was building an alchemist for a small campaign a friend wants to run for their first session GMing and then I remembered Treasure Vault is supposed to have some cool new alchemical options and suddenly February seems really really far away.

Too good of an opening to pass up. From the product page:

Aaron Shanks wrote:

Did we post this already?

Table of Contents

Introduction: Into the Vault
Armor and Armament
Alchemy Unleashed
Momentary Magic
Trappings of Power
Secrets of Crafting
Gamemaster’s Trove
Treasure Tables
Glossary & Index


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D3stro 2119 wrote:
Fwiw, the main baseline scifi tendency is to use "psionics" as the magic stand in.

Not in 3rd edition DnD or its derivatives, including specifically pathfinder and starfinder. Since 3.5 was system I was using, those rules are what I was world building off.


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David knott 242 wrote:


Another thing I forgot to mention is that many of the new races follow a pattern of one fixed and one free ability score bonus, with no penalty. I am wondering whether the next edition of Pathfinder (presumably still many years off) will go with that as the standard system of ability score adjustments by ancestry?

I would guess no. Having a flaw is too flavorful of an option for most ancestries, and creates a narrative about the possible culture that is otherwise absent in simply giving everyone a boost. As does the lack of a flaw on the ancestries where it makes sense.

Plus, frankly, there's not as many options if you're just using a boost + free.

All that said, I wouldn't be surprised if most of the common ancestries wound up with the 2 boost set up, and the 3 boost + flaw was for uncommon and rare ancestry options.

Lessee: Dwarf Con, Elves Dex, Humans 2 free, Halflings Wis, Gnomes Int, Goblins Cha. Could play around with those; like Dwarves get Str and Gnomes Con. Whichever option is left will suggest who gets promoted to common; Orcs make sense to me, but so do Gnolls or Kobolds (if Int is freed up).


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Mathmuse wrote:
I decided to treat them as excessively bureaucratic, because I used to work for the U.S. government and could explain Androffan idiocy as bureaucratic regulations and inconvenient licensing agreements.

In my experience, corporate bureaucracy is just as idiotic, albeit easier to just...quietly change as long as no one invested in the current set up notices what you're doing.

Mathmuse wrote:
They had learned centuries before that their planet was deficient in magic. Their colonies on other worlds had faced native magical monsters and their own children grew up there with the ability to cast arcane spells. Androffa had only divine magic, an uncommon gift from the interstellar gods who thought that the Androffan humans should not rely on the gods too much.

Complete non-sequitur, but this reminds me of my old 3.5 campaign world where I had it as "Elves invented Arcane Magic (because they have the longevity for trial and error), Humans Divine (because they can convince themselves of anything), and Goblins Psionics (because they lack other options)." I'm curious how I would have set things up with Arcane, Divine, Primal, and Occult as options? I know my second world, I split magic up into 4 options (Wizardry, Artistry, Witchery, and Divinity), but those were aligned with the 4 main goddesses, not the 4 racial groups (original 3 plus dragons).

Anyways, I bring this up because your world building that Andoffa lacked other options drove them to reluctantly use Divine magic is intriguing, and I could see using it.


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Ched Greyfell wrote:

I think a campaign where Rovagug is trying to escape his prison would be fantastic.

I mean, I'm sure Rovagug has always been trying to escape his prison. But an adventure where he has followers that somehow are working on it happening.
Mythic followers of Sarenrae and Asmodeus would have a great time in an adventure like that.

Heh, I had a similar idea.

AnimatedPaper wrote:

The easiest would be a Rovagug centered event, as it could happen simultaneously across the entire globe, with both local and regional effects to be contained, and a Mythic adventure path to contain the Rough Beast once again, probably centered on (or at least ending in) Casmaron and the Pit of Gormuz.

Imagine dozens of minor and major incursions, allowing plot hooks centered on a wide scattering of locations that need no other unifying theme beyond "it sounds neat".

The rough beast really does lend himself to Epic and/or Mythic stories, doesn't he? Especially with the option to punch a kaiju in the nose.


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Fighting a migraine, so I'm not sure how much sense I'm making here. But for me, a hypothetical mythic system would allow hyperspecialized characters, like the prototypical goblin rogue with a +30 to stealth at level 2. You can't really DO characters like that in PF2 (and for good reason). You can specialize, at high levels be able to seriously feel the difference between your untrained and master/legendary skills, but by that point you're also pretty damn good at several other skills, as well as basic combat rolls/saves.

Having someone mostly ordinary but preternaturally good at playing music, or lifting objects, or tracking, or just encyclopedically informed about medicine, is something NPCs can do but not PCs.

So that I think. Being able to hit skill challenges 5-10 levels ahead of your combat challenges would open interesting options for my taste while keeping combat mostly exactly where it is. Possibly including "Hyper Critical" tier of success for most common skill checks presented in books so far, but only possible if you beat the DC by 20 or more.

It would be better if semi mystical skills were also added. I'm imagining something like our current scalable cantrips (but make them more uniform in effect first), but the level of effect is based on a "skill" roll instead of your level, possibly adding additional effects if you hyper critical.

There's entire genres of stories involving characters with one extraordinary talent (Bastard Son and the Devil Himself being the one that comes immediately to mind), stories that as I said go pretty far against the grain for how you're encouraged to build broadly. I'm not sure that Mythic would be an appropriate appellation for what I'm proposing, given that almost every NPC in the GMG would technically be Mythic in that case, but it certainly would require a subsystem of some sort in order to put in game without breaking everything too badly.


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NielsenE wrote:
If they could ever clear the rights/etc, for a reprint of the old Dragon/Dungeon magazine APs updated to 2e, I'd love to see that. I think I've tracked down all but one of the issues, but would love to have a 2e adaption of the APs that got them started.

That would be a dream. Savage Tides and Age of Wyrms were so great to read.

Even if they had to update them to both PF2 and 5e (or 6e? whatever the next iteration is) in order to make everyone's lawyers happy, I know a lot of gamers would instantly scoop up a collected edition of both of those APs.


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I'd be intrigued to see "Drow" become an ancestry archetype like the undead ones. That makes the most sense to me and fits the lore of Drow being able to be something you can become AND something you're born into. Make it able to use the level 1 ancestry feat, but otherwise its up to you when you opt in, or not.

You can also introduce stronger ancestry options using class feats instead of ancestry feats.


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Okay, I hadn’t needed a Darklands book, but after this post:

https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43pcx?Whowhat-would-you-make-with-playable-Dro w#20

I do now. And the pitch of an accompanying “completely subsurface pcs with no particular interest in seeing the sky” AP sounds intriguing.


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xNellynelx wrote:
Spamotron wrote:
keftiu wrote:
If we get more Book of the Dead-style monster books, aberrations are at the top of my list by far... and fey are near the bottom.
You probably don't have to worry about a fae book anytime soon. After all it's Paizo policy to treat third party well, being former third party themselves. They won't want to steal Legendary Games thunder.
I can still see them doing a fey book. Though less of a "Book of the Fey" and more of the "The First World".

Depending on how Rage of Elements goes, I’d like a book that does something similar with the other inner/transitive places: Ethereal, Astral, Shadow, First World, Dream, and Time.


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I see no reason to not offer a 1st edition party. One of the points of this thread is so that we start thinking about the kinds of stories meta regions offer, not just individual countries. It's one of the things I am critical of with both Outlaws of Alkenstar and Blood Lords; each is very country focused instead of more widely regional. Admittedly, Alkenstar at least incorporated the Mana Wastes, so it's not totally missing, but I really had hopes for an AP that explored the entire Impossible Lands, not just individual pieces.

But that aside, as long as your PCs are hailing from the same meta-region, I think its within the bounds of the thread to have a Gentleman, Cavalier, Skald, and Mesmerist form into a group from Absolom or the Eye of Dread.

Not my thread, so take my words with a grain of salt, but speaking only for myself I wouldn't mind seeing what you have to write.


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Squiggit wrote:

The PF2 alchemist is the bad with weapons, mental-attribute focused nonmagical support class right now.

Like if you were trying to build this character in the system as is, alchemist with the marshall (or bard, or both) archetype is probably your best bet.

I think you've hit the best possible solution. If you're going to build a familiar into an all-up class, the support chassis is the way to go. And if you really have to use no magic to pull this off, then the impulse format is your best bet for class abilities, except require a skill check instead of class dc. Between those abilities, an aura, and a slew of aid another abilities and additional reactions for your allies to spend (probably want giving extra reactions to be something your aura can provide), and you have the basics of something your character can do each round that reshapes the battlefield but doesn't do so via damage.

Of course, eschewing direct damage entirely can be a single subclass. Other subclasses that focus on direct damage or terrain effects seem possible too, as we saw on how the kineticist worked.


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QuidEst wrote:
In terms of design, though, there are a lot of conflicts. Pathfinder's goal was to cut down on the "Christmas tree" effect. You have base weapons that are occasionally updated by runes, but most of your scaling comes from leveling. Starfinder leans hard in the opposite direction, with weapons and armor that are regularly replaced with new and more powerful technology.

I don't really see these as fully incompatible. Just create several iterations of the same item with fundamental runes baked into the item, and you're getting a lot of the same effect. We see this in PF2 with consumables and specific magic items, so the precedent and format is there.

There's other routes you can take, but that one makes the most sense to me.

QuidEst wrote:
If you tried to make the two compatible, how do you balance longbows against disintegration rays? If they aren't compatible, why make them the same system?

And like magic weapons, higher powered effects need not be placed on level 0 or level 1 items. Perfectly fine for a weapon to start off at level 2 or 12. Making fundamental runes part of the baseline item effect makes this easier in fact; you can be a bit more granular in when a weapon's second or third die comes online if the base effect is stronger than normal.

QuidEst wrote:
Pathfinder got rid of the slower spell progressions entirely, while Starfinder moved to them exclusively.

Now this one is tougher. I like wave casting, especially if 3 levels of casting became the baseline expectation for wave casters, but would that be enough to make characters feel as magical as they do in SF? I'm not sure.


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nibgnas wrote:

is it possible to play with pathfinder 2e?

I'm really finding 1 on 1 adventure(cuz not enough time and not enough the plaers-specially don't match time each others)

You can get a lot of mileage out of already written adventures by simply sending a solo character that is +3 levels above the suggested level. +2 if you're doing a gestalt character. You may have to fudge things a bit, but it's doable, and the XP awards work as written.

This is within the standards of CRB adjustments for smaller parties, so I'm not making this up on my own.


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_shredder_ wrote:
Please don't force physical damage on non-fire kineticists. Let us blast actual energy right from level 1, every turn. Give us the option to play a 100% cold focused water kineticist who never deals boring bludgeoning damage and lightning, poison and acid options for air/metal, wood and earth. Blasting acid sounds just a million times more awesome to me than throwing rocks around.

That was partly what inspired the choices I made in my list. I wanted at least 1 physical and 1 energy damage for each element, except fire and earth that get all energy and all physical respectively.

Temperans wrote:
Like I said the chinese style was already a thing before, it was just not how Kineticist worked (intead going with the 6 inner planes + ethereal plane). Which is not the western style, althought it is similar.

I've no particular need to hew closely to what the kineticist did in PF1. It's similar mechanics enabling similar characters, but it is coming from a very different narrative path, and so options will by necessity be different.

The Raven Black wrote:
Also IIRC Wood is growth while Metal is decay. So positive and negative damage could be a thing for these.

I personally dislike this idea, but it could be done. I'd rather these ideas be represented by what kinds of invocations each element gets, like wood going heavy on healing and creation, while metal going heavier on destruction.


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Agreed. Could use another feat to cover Touch Healing, but otherwise that’s solid.


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As Keiftu and others have said, "can be done" covers a lot of ground. YOu could certainly make an inquisitor out of a methodology; I myself have homebrewed such a thing, though I need to update to reflect the lowered cost of bound casting. Or you could do the same with a racket or a thaumaturge class archetype (which is my current preference), possibly even a Ranger class archetype.

None of which addresses the actual need of many, which is an offensive divine martial character that doesn't have to fight its own chassis to operate, and I don't think a subclass or even class archetype has enough moving parts to fill that need. A full archetype might, but even there it starting at level 2 is an issue. Besides, we may as well wish for the whole plate instead of just a few slices.


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Ravingdork wrote:

I'd make it so every kineticist was a single element kineticist as a base.

Then, they could expand into a thematically appropriate sub-elements via class feats. If they want multiple base elements to become a dual gat or tri gate or quad gate kineticist, make an archetype for that.

At least that way, the developers could balance the class against itself far more easily.

I would also make strange, non-elemental choices, such as aether or void, into their own class archetypes.

I’m still hopeful that they’ll create another impulse using class (which I’ve termed the “Screw You in Particular” class) with a single target focus using the non-elemental choices.

Also, regarding my list above, while I’d prefer those as the base choices, I see no particular reason why other elements can’t borrow from one another for their impulses. If lightning/sonic/acid/poison are associated with multiple elements…then let multiple elements have abilities that access that energy type.

As someone said, it makes no sense for Earth to have a monopoly on bludgeoning, why assume fire would have a monopoly on electricity damage just because it gets it as a blast?

As far as alternatives for fire’s secondary blast, I don’t think much has been done with radiation damage, even though it exists as a type.


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Squiggit wrote:
Regarding alternative damage types, assuming a fantasy world where Paizo lets you pick between two blasts or something, what damage sources would you like to see and where? Ideally you'd want two choices for every element for parity, and where certain options go could also be up in the air.

My preferences:

Air: slashing, Sonic
Earth: all 3 physical
Fire: Lightning, Fire
Water: Cold, Bludgeoning
Metal: Slashing, Acid
Wood: piercing, poison

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