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I like that you can further differentiate your character by either going all in on overflow or avoiding it like the plague.

While clunky, I think the overflow mechanic is interesting to play with.


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Guntermench wrote:
Elemental Weapon wrote:
It can also be used for Elemental Blasts or standard Strikes (provided they’re melee blasts or Strikes if you choose a melee weapon or ranged blasts or Strikes if you choose a ranged weapon).
I think this is what they meant by you lose ranged. You can use it for Impulses that are not Blasts, but you can't use it for ranged Blasts if you picked a melee weapon.

Yep, just saw that and was coming to correct my post. That did seem too good to be true.


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Captain Morgan wrote:
Pronate11 wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:
Pronate11 wrote:
So, with focus spells like cackle, lingering composition, extend boost, amped guidance, and amped warp step, it seems like one focus spell is about equal to one action. So, assuming an impulse takes one more action to use (either through overflow or just having a more action activity) it should be roughly balanced for impulses and focus spells to have an equal effect. At most, impulses could be considered a bit more versatile than the example focus spells, and impulses would have to be slightly weaker than focus spells.
That's a veeeeery limited list of focus spells there. Tons of focus spells take 2 actions, especially the big offensive ones.
Yes, but those where the ones that more or less directly traded a focus point for an action. that was my point. so a 3 action impulse should be about equal to a 2 action focus spell, becouse one focus point is about equal to an action
I don't think that tracks. Focus cantrips do not follow the same rules as other focus spells, where most cost a focus point in addition to one or more actions.

But focus cantrips cost only those actions. If you're saying overflow abilities should be equivalent to focus cantrips in power, due to also only costing actions, then I'd want to see them be 1 action better than a focus cantrip of the same power, due to the inherent 1 action penalty of regathering your Element.

Non-overflow impulse actions, those I would agree should be roughly equivalent to a focus cantrip of the same action cost, as I do not think the gather penalty fully applies to those.


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PossibleCabbage wrote:
graystone wrote:
Sure but then you can't make ranged attacks unless you throw away your melee weapon.

I think, since they rarely come into the playtest to explain how things should work and to clarify things that are confusing, the best thing to do is to run the class the way to imagine it should work.

Since I don't think a ranged blast with your elemental weapon out makes you lose that weapon any more than doing a ranged blast with normal gathering makes you lose the element you gathered. Elemental Blast is not an overflow ability, so you're just emitting a fire burst from your fire sword, or whatever.

I think Graystone (and please correct me if I am wrong) meant that a ranged strike with an elemental melee weapon would result in a gather thrown away. As far as ranged blasts, my reading of that feat is the same as yours.

Which...hmmm. I didn't consider that dynamic; that feat might be more interesting than I'd given it credit for.

I misread, disregard. No ranged attacks at all if you have a melee weapon.


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PossibleCabbage wrote:
I mean, what you are supposed to do against a single enemy is probably "your basic blast". Which does about as much damage as a normal weapon, which works for other people. You just don't have a lot of ways to improve your basic blast.

Yup. Give me Fire Ray or Force Bolt as an overflow ability, and I'd be happier.

But like I said upthread, there's no real need to playtest single target focus spells; that data they have. This other thing they're doing with aoe effects that have 1-3 riders attached, that probably needs more play data.

As well as the basic gather-overflow cycle. I know you prefer not to engage with it, but I'm kind of enjoying it.


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Verzen wrote:
Personally, I'd rather take HP damage similar to burn to use gather element as a free action.

Sure, but I don't have a good idea on what the correct balance on that would be, but there's 3 or 4 examples off the top of my head where a focus point essentially equaled an action cost reduction off the normal activity. A focus spell that makes gather a free action is pretty good way of conceptualizing my other point, which is that the action penalty of gather should justify overflow abilities to be at the level of focus spells of equivalent actions (not counting the gather).


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Martialmasters wrote:
AnimatedPaper wrote:
Martialmasters wrote:
If they were to become focus spells I don't see the reason for overflow to exist if I'm honest.

Yes, you’d want one or the other, as both serve the same purpose. And for the purpose of this class, I’d rather keep overflow/gather.

But that’s kind of my point. You keep saying there needs to be a limiter, but that limiter already exists. These abilities are simply tuned a bit under wear they need to be. Pure damage overflow abilities, where all the power budget is in dice instead of terrain and control effects, would help a lot of players. Even better if they are single target. Boring, sure, sometimes boring is okay if it enables the class fantasy.

And not something they’d need to playtest; boring no frills abilities are the easiest thing to balance.

I agree the power of current overflow abilities can be brought up. But not up to your level of focus spells until they themselves become focus spells.

They can be straight-up word for word copies of existing focus spells, and the overflow trait would still ensure that they were not as powerful as focus spells. In fact, they could across the board be more powerful, and that action penalty would still keep things balanced.

This is really not as much of an issue as you're assuming. Though, on reflection, I could imagine a focus spell that allowed you to gather element as a free action. That's in line with several focus spells we already have, and would maintain the integrity of most of the class's balancing while allowing for a more fluid playstyle.


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Martialmasters wrote:
If they were to become focus spells I don't see the reason for overflow to exist if I'm honest.

Yes, you’d want one or the other, as both serve the same purpose. And for the purpose of this class, I’d rather keep overflow/gather.

But that’s kind of my point. You keep saying there needs to be a limiter, but that limiter already exists. These abilities are simply tuned a bit under wear they need to be. Pure damage overflow abilities, where all the power budget is in dice instead of terrain and control effects, would help a lot of players. Even better if they are single target. Boring, sure, sometimes boring is okay if it enables the class fantasy.

And not something they’d need to playtest; boring no frills abilities are the easiest thing to balance.


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YuriP wrote:
I like the idea to give up of Elemental Blast as a Strike variation and turn it like a 1-action attack cantrip with dmg dice increasing every 2 levels a Legendary DC. This remember the Fiery Body mechanics, is very flavorful and gives more importance to KAS at same time that improves the impulses.

I'm sort of making peace with the blast mechanic as it is, though I do think this is worth exploring. How about a 1 action cantrip that does not innately scale, but instead can gain any bonus or penalties as if it were an unarmed strike, including fundamental runes (but not other runes, just to keep things sane)? Mostly same mechanics, but removes some of the annoying bits like needing to have your element gathered and the manipulate tag, and it could scale off your spell attack instead of weapon attack except you also get the benefit of fundamental weapon runes. This would probably require the sacrifice of the class's first level class feat, but it would probably be worth it.

The MC version should be nerfed, probably making it an impulse at least, but that's not unusual.

Or if that is too strong (and I can see how it would be, this is just my off the cuff thought) at least taking it off the Impulse tag would help this a lot. You can even add "Requirement: You have an element gathered" to the action to apply what I think is the important restriction while simultaneously making it not trigger AoO.

Verzen wrote:
Martialmasters wrote:
Temperans wrote:

They really should be above cantrip level, not at the same level.

And before someone says "oh you just want fighter level". No. Stop that there is a big difference between above cantrip and fighter level.

If they were made into focus spells absolutely.

If not absolutely not

Why not? They can't be used more often than Focus Spells, really, with how much set up is required.

I agree, Gather Element acts as the limiter for these abilities, and should justify at least caster focus spell level of damage + utility. To be honest, looking over the abilities, I think that is where they're at. Utlity is hard to guage, as is the value of different AoE, but it looks mostly correct.

Though I actually think it should be balanced at the martial focus spell level, which is slightly higher. They are martials after all.


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Fra Vanya Livgrace; Skeleton (Fodder), Magical Experiment
Dedicated Fire Kineticist 6

Spoiler:

I will revise this to be an NPC stat block when I do a feedback post
Speed 30, HP 78
Blast +13 2d6 fire, DC 22
AC 14; Fort +14; Ref +14; Will +12. Perc +10, Senses Darkvision, Tremorsense (imprecise)

Feats: 1) As in life, so in Death (a), Eternal Torch, Burning Jet, Flame Eruption, Warming Nimbus, 2) Thaumaturge MC, Stitch Flesh, 3) Ancestral Paragon (Undead Empathy), 4) Blast Wave, Battle Medicine 5) Past Life, 6) Blast Barrage, Godless Healing

Proficiencies:
Expert) Reflex, Fort, Scribing Lore, Medicine, Will, Deception
Trained) Stealth, Occultism, Academia Lore, Nature, Religion, Perception, Diplomacy, Class DC, Attacks, Light Armor

Str 10, Dex 18, Con 18, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 14

The 4th son of an already minor noble (being only distant cousins of the ruling noble), Vanya did not place much stock in being of the Karcau Livgraces, but instead found a position within a druidic monastery fairly young in life. And there he would have happily remained, but for the small fact that his refuge was the front for a death worshiping aspect of the Green Faith that liked to experiment, and he seemed a safe enough target.

A few primal rituals later, Fra Livgrace found himself reborn without flesh, but infused with fire. After teaching his former fellow "monks" the error of their ways, Vanya has aimlessly wandered ever since. He has by now far outlived every member of his family and anyone that knew him in life.

While not particularly intelligent, Vanya is something of an intellectual dabbler in many subjects, and his primary activity is that of archiving and research. He has recently found a copy of something from a "Dark Archive", and looks forward to taking it to his rented quarters to see what secrets it might hold.

-
Going to run him as a solo character through the Dark Archive adventures. Ironically, that is probably the best case scenario for the kineticist's current mechanics, so hopefully I'll enjoy it despite my displeasure on the basic chassis. I'm slightly concerned that I didn't find a way to cram Survival or Arcana into him, but we'll see how it goes. I'll probably pick up Untrained Improvisation at 7th.


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Lollerabe wrote:


It's hard to give feedback that dosen't come off as entitled and rude, when the best you can say is 'I love the theme, everything else is really bad tho'

That’s the feedback they’re looking for though. Do the mechanics properly enable the theme? If not, why not? Are there feats that work better for that or are otherwise more appealing? And are there specific pain points (not numbers, but like action costs and difficulty in pulling off basic class abilities)?


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Ravingdork wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
I'm ok with a magical bent because of the connection to primal power, not just pure elemental - there's a healing/instinctive aspect to it.
But didn't the developers themselves say "this is an Elements book, not a Primal book"?

They did. However, this is a primal class. Many of their abilities are tagged as such, including all the element specific Impulse feats.


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Martialmasters wrote:


I will not operate under this assumption unless informed by a dev. As it's more an exception to the rule.

Not really. Most playtest classes are slightly under budgeted, probably so they specifically have room for small additions like that.

I can’t think of a class that didn’t get that level of boost. Even the witch got focus cantrips in addition to a level 1 focus spell.


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graystone wrote:
AnimatedPaper wrote:
Who cares? It’s not like I’ll actually play this, given how the class turned out.
Just pointing it out in case someone thinks 'that's cool' and goes off to build it. ;)

Please don’t respond with that to me.

As I’ve mentioned before, “;)” makes you seem more sarcastic and combative, not less.

Edit: Unless of course it is your intention to express sarcasm, in which case never mind.


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graystone wrote:
AnimatedPaper wrote:
Automaton Earth/Fire Dual, with the sharpshooter heritage. His blasts are his autocannon firing, and many of his Impulses are equally mechanical in nature.

He'd have to take elemental weapon if you want to use Automaton Aim [it specifies weapon].

Who cares? It’s not like I’ll actually play this, given how the class turned out.

keftiu wrote:
AnimatedPaper wrote:
Automaton Earth/Fire Dual, with the sharpshooter heritage. His blasts are his autocannon firing, and many of his Impulses are equally mechanical in nature.
Leshies, Ghorans, and (hopefully someday) Wyrwoods might all do this when the final class adds Wood Kineticists.

Hopefully! Leshies had a great racial archetype using wood kinesis that I would love to see updated PF2 via class feats and impulses.


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Automaton Earth/Fire Dual, with the sharpshooter heritage. His blasts are his autocannon firing, and many of his Impulses are equally mechanical in nature.


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Lazarus Dark wrote:
that's almost ten percent of the class budget per the BCS.

Per the BCS?

What is that?


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DiskJokky wrote:
Angel Hunter D wrote:
Gaulin wrote:
This is the trade-off for getting martial progression. It would be bad for balance if the class got both martial proficiencies and full caster proficiencies. Part of why I thought the class should be more of a caster than a martial, but here we are
they don't really have martial proficiencies, it's more like warpriest proficiencies.
Agreed, compared to the Magus, Rogue, and Swashbuckler, they get expert in their weapons 2 levels after the listed classes. Strangely, they get mastery at the same time as the listed classes.

It’s only that level 5 thing that’s different. Otherwise they’re pretty standard martial, even get weapon specialization and greater specialization at the right levels.


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AestheticDialectic wrote:
Usually earth in these d20 games does acid damage, so there is an excuse to add that too. I think though I like having the option to shoot actual water, rocks and blasts of air, but also lightning, cold and acid respectively. Maybe these could be upgrade feats or something

I’d prefer Acid to be tied to Metal, but that’s a quibble.


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It would make more sense.
It’s a bit odd that the level you get the crit specialization is the level you are least likely to crit.


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Verzen wrote:
So a 1st level class feat idea is to 'combine' your elements into one where every move you make is a combination of both your elements. If it dealt electricity damage? It now deals fire AND electricity damage, for example.

Fusion blast, level 10. Seems to be the class’s version of dual wielding.


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Correct, yes.

It uses your unarmed proficiency and handwraps.

You are able to at least pick up a feat to make the ranged brutal and the melee finesse, so at least you don’t need both stats.


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Ezekieru wrote:

But I don't think the prospect of a "APG 2" would be impossible... so long as there's an interesting narrative to pair with it. Treasure Vault proves they're willing to do a book like a big book of equipment for PF2E, so long as they can add a great story about a little Kobold organizing and showing off an Underworld Dragon's massive treasure hoard.

What's to stop Paizo from doing that type of writing pairing for a sequel to the APG? Make it something like "The Pathfinder Training Manual" or "[Golarion Character]'s Art of War", and have it be a narrative training manual about advanced techniques or obscure variations of certain class paths. It'd give us a big expansion book to cover a lot of undertuned bases, but still written in an interesting way for those who would enjoy casually reading it.

This is where I'm at. Of all the books, I did NOT expect them to find a way to move Ultimate Equipment into PF2 using their current format, and that's exactly what they did (even referencing UE in the keynote).

So if they can bring that one about, I have little doubt they could do the same with anything they cared to.


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Maybe not printed, but enough of the designers have patreons and the like where they might be willing to divulge.

Ron Lundeen's blog was extremely helpful when I was making my basic ancestry guide; a lot of my guess were correct, but that confirmed and corrected some things I wasn't sure on.


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To address some of what we already know:

It will bear no particular resemblance to PF1 mechanics.

It will be magical but not cast spells. I assume that includes focus spells, innate spells, and cantrips in that exclusion. Logan mentioned “impulses” which seems to be the basic ability and its own thing.

The Thrown Element instinct I proposed (though I think I’d rather see it as an archetype) would be akin to the Mind Smith archetype in its ability to create weapons, but it would specifically be a throwing weapon. The idea would be to build on the existing class feats of barbarians to utilize thrown weapons, but make it elemental. Ideally this could also open builds on other martial classes.

Edit: the mental image I have is Hella as a metal element tosser.


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I believe they said so in the keynote when they announced it, but I’d have to rewatch to be sure


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They specifically said they weren’t going back to PF1 mechanics for the kineticist. So trying to use the PF1 version to map what the PF2 one will have is probably not a winning strategy. It might be there, but also might not be.


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Ryuujin-sama wrote:
Was there an official Elemental Devastator archetype? I feel like that sounds like one of the third party ones, possibly the one that splits the blasts into a bunch of smaller blasts. I think the third party one I was thinking of was Onslaught Blaster. Elemental Annihilator is my best guess for what the Elemental Devastator might be.

Yes I meant Annihilator.

In fairness, I was pretty drunk when I posted that. So we’re all lucky I even had the right class to start with.


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Probably the single most commonly used archetype. I would be shocked if there’s no melee build option.

If you’re familiar with WoW, I made a decent facsimile of my enhancement shaman using the elemental annihilator archetype.


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Karmagator wrote:
Perpdepog wrote:
keftiu wrote:
Karmagator wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
I mean, previously the appeal of the energy blasts was that they targeted touch AC. But that's not a thing anymore. So I'm not sure that I need another way for my metallokineticist to hit people than "with metal."
I don't think the options will be that forced. It would make more sense for metal to have the three main physical damage types than to shoehorn some kind of energy type in there.
Metal could also include poison damage (though certainly not be default), between acid and radiation.
Electricity would also fit, given the Plane of Metal is meant to relate to magnetism.
Electricity is strongly associated with air, so I don't think we'll see it in the other basic elements. Whatever the equivalent of composite blasts is will probably have some, though.

I could see it being added to fire. Avatar is an influence on this class; might as well go all in. Air could get Sonic in compensation.

I think 1 energy and 1 physical could work for most elements, but Fire could have multiple energy and Earth multiple physical.


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A "Shinybender", Kobold metal kineticist

A Skeleton pyrokineticist. If cold or electricity are options, maybe those.

.
Oh wow. I just realized Acid would fit in with the plane of Metal. I never liked it tied to earth like it sometimes is, but Metal would work.


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I would also point out that Genie binders are specifically a thing in Golarian, especially in Jalmeray and (I think) Nex. So it seems like a pretty obvious inclusion assuming they aren't in LO Impossible Lands.


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Especially goblin barbarians


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So, what do we want to see in Rage of the Elements? The designers chatted a bit about it, but by necessity focused on the planes themselves and the Kineticist.

Granted, those two parts are probably going to be half the book, but moving past those, what other options would we want to see in this book? I'm specifically focused on character options, but if you want to see specific bits of lore, feel free to mention it.

Off the top of my head:

- Metal and Wood elemental cantrips. More cantrips in general, but I always want that.
- A barbarian instinct that is focused on throwing bits of elemental matter. Sanityfaire's thread got me thinking of it, and now I want it. Although this may work better as an archetype, to allow Rangers, Rogues, and investigators to also play in this pool.
- Genie summoners! A new arcane eidolon for the summoner class.
- More Elemental monks. Let's get bending!
- Metal druids. Also Metal witches. I loved my Iron witch in Arcana Evolved, but for PF2 I could see lessons based around the decay/rust aspects of Metal.
- Two new planetouched heritages. Maybe a fully elemental ancestry as well? I want to play as a Mephit.
- Elemental wizard schools?
- Class archetype that allows clerics and psychics to use the elementalist list. Also an expansion of the elementalist spell list and archtype in general.
- A couple new options for the Elemental sorcerer bloodline.

Basically, anything that already dabbles in elemental magic/themes, I want more.


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Kekkres wrote:
Shiny-shaper, take it of leave it

Okay, that made me genuinely laugh out loud. I might have to add "Kobold Shiny-shaper" to the list of Kineticists I plan to at least create.


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Yes, so I've since found out. Someone called me during that part, interrupting my watch of the feed.

Still, the rest of my post holds. Nefeshti is still around as of Inner Sea Magic, so no reason she couldn't guide the heroes to deal with escalating series of crisis while trying to contain the machinations of either a wood or metal genie.

Edit: You know, an elemental plane road trip might be interesting as well. 6 planes. 6 AP issues. Just putting that out there.

Edit Edit: Probably too soon after the previous two APs though; after two 3 part travel APs I'd prefer one that is centered on a single region, but arguably we are in the middle of a full 2 years of APs whose impact does not rise above the regional level. So a year of road trip APs might balance that out, and would certainly tie into "Lost Omens: Travel Guide".


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Sanityfaerie wrote:
Basically, make a barbaran Elemental Instinct, where the Instinct features and associated feats give you an unarmed ranged attack of the appropriate elemental type that you can improve with appropriate feats. Should be reasonably straightforward to balance against other barbarian builds (we already have Raging Thrower) and it would nicely add "(elemental)" as an option to the "I am a walking engine of () destruction" theme that barbarians have going on in general. It might even take the edge off a bit for those folks who really want bloodragers.

Just straight up make them thrown weapons. 1d8, 0 reload, 1+ hand, Thrown trait (critical varying by element). You're able to conjure the element as part of the thrown strike action.


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The-Magic-Sword wrote:
One more too, mind the adventure path spoilers

Reading this...I have Medium thoughts.

Quote:
The party gets Harrow Cards with weird magic powers that they receive without knowing how. The AP is a treasure hunt where you’re tracking them down, and using them to build “The Harrow Court” to customize a Demiplane and get special powers.... Each of the cards has their own powers, passive and active, you build a hand of five, and it becomes an invested ite– like a customized artifact deckbuilding mechanic.

Anyone else having flashbacks to the playtest medium?


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I'm just going to make a wild guess: the next AP will be a spiritual sequel to Legacy of Fire. Perhaps Nefeshti is interested in the new Wood and Metal genies, and wants the players to be a new incarnation of the Templars of the Five Winds.

Edit: Actually, I think I recall Eleanor mentioning that Metal and Wood planes were either inaccessible or just a lot harder to reach for Golarian, but now are more accessible for some reason.

What could that reason be? Someone mentioned upthread a Drift Crisis in Pathfinder, would a fundamental reordering of the elemental planes qualify? Perhaps its just because I played WoW for so long, but the title "Rage of the Elements" sounds like something Blizzard would call one of their limited time events with elementals everywhere causing havoc.


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And also that it will have an entirely new framework, so probably also not a Martial, Skilled Martial, Support, or Wavecaster chassis either.

Legendary class DC perhaps?

It also sounds like the base ability is "impulse" instead of "blast", but I may be reading too far into that.


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Random question, but has anyone mathed out what the effect would be if Kinetic Blast used spell attack rolls, but also did half damage on a miss? I'm curious if that would be enough to get them into the damage numbers people are looking for.

I know chip damage isn't seen as thrilling on the alchemist, but half damage might be a big enough number to make people happier.


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Aaron Shanks wrote:

Re: a PDF-only subscription

We hear you and thank you for your input. While we have nothing to announce at this time we do have a new leadership who might explore new ideas and opportunities. It’s an exciting time for innovation and the challenges of change at Paizo.

Adventures Ahead

Two final comments I'd like to make on this topic.

Ideally, these PDFs lines would not only encompass the current subscription lines, but also have separate subscriptions to Bounties and One Shots. I'm not sure how feasible a One-shot sub would be, but the bounties certainly now seem regular and reliable enough to justify a new subscription.

I would also not be upset if the pdf subs did not qualify one for the free society adventures, though of course I would dearly love if they did. Moreover, I would view positively if my legacy advantage carried over if I switch my AP sub to a PDF AP sub, but again I would understand if that was not the case.

Either way, for me, the positives of gaining a PDF sub would far outweigh the negatives of losing various incentives you offer, but if they DID count, I would be incentivized to buy more, possibly including lines I've *never* subscribed to.

I won't claim to know (or even have a good guess) how true that would be for most people, but I thought I'd offer my thoughts as a data point.


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Let's get weird I guess.

Depending on what key ability score gets picked, I'm imagining a Shoony Earth kineticist, that slings mud around the battlefield and also picked up the trapmaster archetype.

Though I just had an interesting mental picture of an Automaton wood kinetecist that I could RP as a Wyrwood.


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Ryuujin-sama wrote:
Apparently a Paizo Staff member responded on Reddit and a group of them/the designers got together for a 5th level one shot where they all built their own take on a Kineticist to playthrough it and then compare what they each came up with as their idea of what a Kineticist should be, and then took the best ideas from each for the playtest version.

Okay that sounds pretty awesome. That kind of genesis definitely piques my interest in what they came up with.


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Kyrone wrote:
No Aether, it will be 6 elements total, in the playtest will have the 4 main ones.

Bummer. I rather liked the flavor of it, but I can see how the choice was arrived at.


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Ly'ualdre wrote:
Like YuriP said, I'm kind of doubtful it won't be a martial, since it was one in 1e. But 2e has also reinvented several classes in ways none of us imagined. So it could happen. But, if I am being honest, a step away from spells is my preference; especially since with them it becomes less the Kineticist and more of a PF2 take on the Shugenja or Wu Jen of 3.5.

I've always found this to be a curious statement, because they really weren't. Their basic attack was a spell-like ability. They could counterspell at will. Most of their talents and class abilities were adding either improvements to that initial spell or granting even more spells.

I would certainly agree that they did martial damage and accuracy numbers, but the base abilities that got them there are pretty firmly caster. Certain (very popular I will also concede) archetypes did push it more towards martial, but I would hesitate to describe the entire class as such.

Edit: well, I don't want to get drawn further in. I'll leave this post up, but otherwise I apologize for arguing, genial as this discussion has been so far.

Any direction they go, I'll be interested in reading. I may be less interested in playing, and so may check out on the playtest, but that would hardly be a first for me.


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Ly'ualdre wrote:
AnimatedPaper wrote:

At this point, after all the fighting, I'll just see what they do.

I'd prefer a spell caster, but if it winds up being a martial with elemental attacks, then...well I guess that just sucks.

I know that isn't quite what you're wanting, but with any luck, maybe it could be the only non-spellcasting class that can take Elementalist. Could be a solution if it ends up being a martial, which would be my guess

EDIT: Actually, I could see a Wave Caster.

Depends on how it shakes out, but I can't really see any particular use a martial would have for that class archetype. You need spells for about half the feats, and several of the ones left are for your familiar. Wave casting would, of course, address that.

Otoh, those reactions would certainly be appropriate on a Kineticist, with or without the rest of the archetype.

But no, my biggest problem with a martial that focuses on unarmed elemental strikes is that I'd still rather they add that into the Monk's class feats. It is already something of a focus for Monks, so I'd rather they add support for that type of character with a slew of new monk feats, as making a new class to have that same narrative space seems somewhat redundant(and makes it less likely that the monk will get those cool toys). Which isn't the end of the world, but not the direction I wish they would go.

Edit: wait, did they mention aether at all?


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At this point, after all the fighting, I'll just see what they do.

I'd prefer a spell caster, but if it winds up being a martial with elemental attacks, then...hopefully it will be at least somewhat interesting. I did turn around my opinion on the gunslinger, so perhaps the horse may sing.


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I'm pretty excited by an AP that features the Harrow heavily. It gives me hope for a Harrow book in mid (if LO) to late (if rulebook, which I doubt) 2023.

And I can't wait to see how the kineticist got updated. Even if it's not what I would have wanted, it'll be interesting to see how it shook out among the various ways they could have taken it.


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keftiu wrote:

Does the Psychic invalidate the Witch? No.

Does the Psychic make me wish the Witch was anywhere near as customizable and interesting as it? Absolutely.

Yup.

I will say that the psychic’s souped up cantrips is a direction they might have gone with on the witch. Hexes are better (thematically if not mechanically), but I wish hexes were designed closer in power level to the new cantrips psychics get.

That is probably the one thing I’d say invalidates anything on the witch.

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