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Will do!
Hmmm...Annelise, your background indicates you've been on the wrong side of the law, but do you plan on being "roguish?" Yes, this system doesn't rely on "traditional party roles" like "Fighter" or "Mage" or "Thief," but depending on which direction you're taking your narrative, it seems to me like what this group needs from a narrative perspective is a burglar (or if you'd prefer, you can say "expert treasure hunter")!
Yeah, that Wee-Jas-worshipping concept I mentioned earlier was envisioned as a black blade type. Necromancer with a sword and principles (like don't raise the dead without their consent and the permission of the Ruby Sorceress). But like I said, that'd probably be a better fit for Age of Worms, where there's more undead to put to rest. So back to brainstorming I go!
Something I was wondering: I've read through the Savage Tide Player's Guide a few times, and I've got a good feel for Sasserine itself, but I'm kinda wondering what more overarching themes Savage Tide's narrative explores. Like, there's clear breadcrumbs about the Church of the Whirling Fury and its opposition to demons, the friction between the churches of Wee Jas and Kord and their respective city districts, and the suspicious presence of the Scarlet Brotherhood, but I worry about leaning too hard on one specific theme and then the game's general story moving on from it to kind of leave it hanging... It looks like between Annelise and Trail the divine aspects are pretty thoroughly covered...
Quick question: what counts as "technolgy" in this setting? Is there Alkenstar type clockwork golems and gunpowder? Funnily enough, there IS a very minor god of magical technology and he has a pair of six-shooters! I don't know if his faithful have reproduced them, though.
I'm not really sure if this is a rule or lore discussion but something that's low-key bugged me since 2e's inception has been the reclassification of the Bard class to the new Occult spellcasting (though if we want to get TECHNICAL only Primal is OFFICIALLY new, Occult occupying a weird middle-ground as a pseudo-official third type of spellcasting in 1e). On some level I get it, as a way to differentiate Pathfinder more strongly from its predecessors (in a way though it's just recycling the distinctions one of those predecessors made that was walked back). And I kinda like the way Occult magic is described in Secrets of Magic, tapping into sympathetic connections between the symbolic and real, allowing you to use the former to affect the latter, and to be fair, that makes a certain amount of sense in the case of the Bard, using music to influence the mental states of people around them and sort of playing off various mythical figures for whom music and spellcasting were one and the same (Odin, Vainamoinen, etc.) But I struggle a bit with how Occult lumps bards in with psychics, and soon necromancers will follow suit. I just really feel like "the bardic arts" and "parapsychology" are very different thematically, and Occult spellcasting as a whole lacks a coherent identity as a result. Maybe I've just been too steeped in the hack roleplaying stereotype of a Bard as an Elizabethan-looking fop with a lute, but I've always felt that with Occult seeming to be more "the spooky magic" that Bards feel almost TOO whimsical for it. Muses are also kind of hard for me to grok as well, mainly because I can't figure out how to roleplay it different from how a Cleric or Champion would treat their god. It feels like it attempts to give bards a "spiritual" dimension that isn't religious (which ironically brings the Bard closer to its mythic roots), that seems interesting but feels like it kind of clashes with the notion I'd become used to that bards were inherently unserious and vain (whether that vanity made them charming or insufferable depended on their alignment), except for maybe the Filidh bard that switched you to divine spellcasting as a Druid (which'd be Primal now), appropriating some of the Druid's gravitas. To a lesser extent this also applies to Witches and Sorcerers, who can now be of any spellcasting tradition depending on their "subclass," where it feels weird to play a Witch or Sorcerer with Divine spellcasting because you expect them to feel like Clerics or Oracles (and indeed one major complaint about Oracle before and after its Remaster has been that it's much more efficient to play a Sorcerer with a Divine bloodline). Kineticists are technically in this boat too since they were initially envisioned as psychokonetics a la Carrie or Matilda, but people more readily compared it to Avatar the Last Airbender, leading it to become the Primal class it is today. But Kineticist feels like it's MORE at home in Primal because that association had been there for so long that the original intention was no longer the default, and it had increasingly felt "out of place" in the category of "Occult Classes" in 1e. I fully acknowledge that this is a "me" problem and it's far too late to change things now, but it makes it hard for me to 1) imagine bard character concepts that take this new paradigm into account, and 2) play "psychic" kinds of characters where the way to meaningfully represent those kinds of abilities is through the Bard class. If I want to try and recreate the "Ardent" class of old where you're an empathic warrior using psychic powers to feel emotions so strongly that your party feels them too...that's just a Warrior Muse Bard with maybe a Silent Whisper/Emotional Acceptance Psychic Archetype. But "Warrior Muse Bard" brings to mind something more like a Norse skald singing about Valhalla. So...what do? How do I wrap my head around bards as they are now, and the Occult spellcaster group as a whole? Those of you who've played Bards in 2e, how did you adapt to the shift in roleplaying paradigm, or how did it allow you to play different kinds of. bards than were possible before? How do you make your Bard's Muse meaningful? At the very least, thank you for listening to me try to articulate this and try to exorcise this particular cognitive dissonance from my brain.
I gotta admit, it's trickier to come up with a concept than I expected as I'm not used to this paradigm (yet). I'm used to using things like class, skill sets and prestige class as archetypes to model my character's backstory and personality around, even other PBTA games tend to do this with their playbooks giving you specific skillsets and tools unique to the one you pick and encouraging players to not "double up" on the same playbook for a more balanced group. But this seems more interested in taking a unique group of people and having them use whatever their specific skills or interests are to deal with situations in creative ways. Not a criticism, I think it's cool that this encourages thinking about character creation more from a "writing" perspective instead of the character starting with a chassis of numbers and rules and a personality then hung over it! I've decided to save the Jasidin "eldritch knight" for Age of Worms but that does take me back to square one. Gonna have to reread the Player's Guide a bit more closely to see if anything "jumps out" at me...
I'm debating whether to use a character concept I've had rattling around my brain for a while of a Jasidin "eldritch knight" sort of character from the Noble District, since Wee Jas has a very prominent place in Sasserine's history and culture, but on the other hand part of me wondered if I should save that concept for if someone does the Age of Worms AP, because there's more of a focus on necromancy in that one...
I appreciate the clarification! That gives me some idea of where to look for inspiration as I try to imagine the kind of character I wanna play.
Savage Tide is set in Greyhawk. Last time I ran it, I ported it to Golarion and just on-the-fly converted stuff. THIS Savage Tide is set in the Mist (Legend in the Mist) which means we can incorporate whatever we want. I just ask because Greyhawk and Golarion have very different base assumptions in their worldbuilding that may influence character creation decisions (i.e. Pharasma and Wee Jas are both goddesses of death, but one considers undeath an abomination and disruption of the natural metaphysical order and the other is totally cool with undead and uses them as divine servitors).
Very basic question I should probably have asked a year or two ago, but can a Champion choose a Cause that grants them Sanctification (Grandeur, Iniquity, Redemption, etc.) if their deity is one that normally doesn't grant that like Pharasma or Nethys? Or are they limited to the Causes that don't sanctify you, like Justice, Liberation or Obedience?
I honestly think not enough attention is paid to the fact that ALL temples to Cayden Cailean are bars. Combined with his popularity among people of almost all classes, and I almost wonder if a fully secular bar might only exist in Rahadoum! Same thing with Calistria and brothels, actually. And Abadar's banks. And forges for Torag, even beyond dwarven ones. Religion plays a MUCH bigger role in the everyday goings-on of Golarion when so many places for work and leisure can be owned and operated by various churches, but I feel sometimes that gets barely touched on, even WHEN you're playing a cleric!
If you read between the lines in the initial history, the implication seems to be that...
Spoiler:
...the Eternal Emperor can't reincarnate because he is in fact still alive and imprisoned. Near the start of Tian Xia's history, the World Guide describes how Aolin, the sovereign dragon founder of Yixing, along with his Imperial dragon kin, were charged by Shizuru and the Celestial Court with custodianship of Tian Xia and its people until the mortals were ready to govern themselves.
Aolin repeatedly sandbagged on this until directly confronted by Shizuru's herald. He intimidated her with his dragon form and declared he would only relinquish rulership when humans proved they could become as great as the divine. This eventually DID occur when Aroden ascended to godhood, but Aolin found a workaround and continued to rule through puppet emperors in secret. He murdered his own sister to keep this secret, but her student, Pu Duo, investigated and despite several setbacks where Aolin subverted Pu Duo's allies and resources, was able to imprison Aolin, since thanks to the joint sacrifice of another of Aolin's siblings and a phoenix, he had resurrective immorality and couldn't be killed. Then he was written out of history in an empire-wide conspiracy to ensure his tyranny couldn't be repeated. I'd bet money that Aolin already has or is on the verge of escaping, and should the "reincarnation" of the Eternal Emperor actually be found, it will actually be Aolin in disguise, ready to return to power and resume his plans to rule all human nations from the shadows and prove to Shizuru and the other gods once and for all that humans are incapable of governing themselves without the benevolence of their dragon masters... On the other hand, this could be just another board of red string from me, like that time I thought Norgorber was masterminding Galt's instability to create a playground of conspiracy and violence for his faithful. I turned out to be dead wrong about that. <_<
Woo indeed! And I freaking DIG the expansion of the Knights of Golarion's ideals and mentality beyond just being "paladins IN SPAAAAAAACE!"
I have the nuts and bolts for my Silvermist Scion (Aiuvarin Ranger, Free Archetyping into Cleric) set up. Will start writing up his background tomorrow!
Huh? "Brought back to life by Pharasma" is so top-of-the-list of things Rahadoum isn't on board with that it has two books about it.That is a strange definition of respect. If she genuinely respects these souls, then she should allow them to return home. Yeah, and the resurrected Rahadoumi's reaction is, at least in the one textual example we have, genuine horror and disgust. Death's Heretic SPOILERS!: Salim Ghadafar "prayed" to Pharasma when his wife was dead by mentally asking if someone...anyone could help them. Pharasma was listening and resurrected his wife, and both husband and wife were shocked and ashamed at the compromise of their beliefs. They divorced, Salim fled Rahadoum and attempted suicide only to find he was now immortal. Ceyanan the Psychopomp Usher showed up and informed Salim he was now bound to Pharasma's service in exchange for the miracle she gave him, and he's been her cantankerous divine gumshoe ever since.
I don't think we'll ever get it at this point but I would love, LOVE, to see a way to stand tower shields up so you can take cover behind them without holding them while you reload your crossbow in true Genoese fashion. I don't when care if it'd be unoptimal! I just wanna play something like this and look like the cool historical character for once! (Only thing wr have now is the shielded tripod from Guns & Gears, which only works with things that have the Kickback trait, which crossbows naturally don't have!)
Why would Cheliax lead by Abrogail II want to stop serving Hell. Abrogail has the unique ability to create and enforce infernal contracts, something that among mortals only she has. Remember that Cheliax (or at least its upper class) has deluded itself into thinking they're the more advantaged party in the contract. "Cheliax does not serve Hell, Hell serves Cheliax." In the quite likely event that House Thrune is forced into the position of either losing power over Cheliax or facing the consequences of breaking the Pact with Asmodeus, they'd most likely opt for the latter, hoping they can leave the lower classes holding the bag while they try to save their own skins (and souls) or...if Abrogail II is as psychopathic as she seems to be (remember, this is a woman who needs a NESSARI reminding her to rein in her worst impulses, who personally, GLEEFULLY beheaded every Iomedaean priest in Egorian with Iomedae's own sword and never bothered to clean the blood off of it out of spite!) She JUST MIGHT go mad enough to decide "Nah, I'd win."
I think given what's been described in War of Immortals, I strongly suspect Szuriel will be involved, even if her presence on that book's cover kind of overstated her personal role in both conflicts. Spoiler: Apparently one of her agents, on the way to becoming an Apocalypse Rider in their own right, is causing trouble along the border disguised as a Hellknight of the Godclaw. Their aim is to lure Cheliax and Andoran into a war that will force House Thrune to default on their contract with Asmodeus, spurring him to send Hell's armies to invade Golarion directly in order to collect.
To manage expectations, though... none of those callbacks touch on the drow.It was pretty tricky navigating the implications of Second Darkness in Spore War, but I feel happy with how we did it... even if it doesn't push the lore revision forward at all on "what about the drow" side of things. But yes, some of Second Darkness' plot points will not only be acknowledged in Spore War, but will be significant callbacks.Now I'm even MORE excited! Oh, no worries, I didn't expect them to. I was more wondering just what events actually DID occur (that we see the results of anyway) that might could be interpreted as Second Darkness' results if you tilt your head at a certain angle and narrow your eyes a bit. It's the least popular AP for many reasons, and I acknowledge the majority of those reasons are legit, but I'd feel more than a little sad if it was just completely became non-canon. You and the other folks at Paizo still worked hard on it and learned from it. I still have a soft spot for Riddleport and the Gold Goblin to this day, even if they only really feature in the first adventure. And more to the point, I found the political nuances between the Winter Council's initial conservative stance and the Lantern Bearers' choice to change and become better intriguing, so if there's a way to let that dynamic remain even if the drow aren't there for them to argue about, I'd be happy.
It was pretty tricky navigating the implications of Second Darkness in Spore War, but I feel happy with how we did it... even if it doesn't push the lore revision forward at all on "what about the drow" side of things. But yes, some of Second Darkness' plot points will not only be acknowledged in Spore War, but will be significant callbacks. Now I'm even MORE excited!
I find it interesting that Pathfinder's essentially following its predecessor's path of not making giants themselves a playable ancestry (Starfinder 1e being a unique exception), but a giant-lite one with weird skin: goliaths have their lithoderms (bony lumps on the skin that when combined with their gray and black skin tones gave them a literally craggy appearance, something that was disappointingly neglected as the editions rolled on to make them more conventionally attractive <_<) and now jotunborn will have their "weavings" with silk literally embroidered into their skin.
I'm now finding that I'm most curious about Kyonin in the upcoming book, largely because I want to see how Paizo will discuss the recent history of the nation and whether the Winter Council and Lantern Bearers will be discussed and what exactly their roles in Kyonin history will be redefined into, considering the raison d'être of both organizations has been retconned out of the setting. Second Darkness SPOILERS!:
The Winter Council was a conspiracy in Kyonin's royal court dedicated to keeping the existence of the drow in the Darklands a secret from the rest of Golarion, because they believed if "The Dark Fate" (an evil elf committing a significant enough act of wickedness or betrayal could spontaneously transform into a drow) became public knowledge, the other ancestries would become suspicious of elves as a whole, inviting war and strife to Kyonin it didn't need with Treerazer squatting in their southern forests.
The Lantern Bearers were originally the Winter Council's military arm, before the events of Second Darkness revealed the rot in the Council's heart (the AP's villain was one of them and became a drow herself after her obsession with genociding the drow led her down the path of evil and Abraxas worship, which made her snap even harder and decide to reverse uno her plans onto the elves out of spite). Afterwards, the Lantern Bearers did some soul searching and when one of their leaders, a ranger with a unicorn animal companion, was slain and reincarnated as a drow, but her unicorn friend didn't abandon her, this was proof the drow as a people were not inherently evil and gave the Lantern Bearers a new sense of purpose. They became an organization dedicated to reintegrating rebel drow into elf society and protecting the free peoples of the Darklands from the depredations of their cruel rulers. Obviously, a lot changed from Second Darkness to today, the first being the elimination of The Dark Fate as a concept, which had been rightly compared to the "Curse of Ham" rationalization of racism, and the general shift away from the drow having a monolithic culture of evil in Zirnakaynin, but now with the reveal that Zirnakaynin is in fact empty and Koriah Azmeren didn't defy the Winter Council's censorship to reveal the drow's existence to the world, but instead made them up to hide the extent of sekmin control over the Darklands, it's all up in the air. I'm just really curious if Paizo will acknowledge Second Darkness' events in any capacity, or if it'll all be ignored and thus Paizo's general policy of having the events of each adventure path have taken place to impact the setting's history will be over.
Nope, that sidebar is the only mention of that strange blade. Didn't stop me from commissioning fanart of it, though! ;)
"And we're among the best damn spies in the Inner Sea region. Which is one of the reasons we're here in the first place." |
