Archpaladin Zousha's page

Yeah, and Distant Shores was also where the Iridian Choir was first mentioned as a more progressive offshoot of the Fold's philosophy (namely in dismissing their belief that "shared heart, shared mind" couldn't be achieved by women as sexist nonsense).

Seems to be a little bit of a retcon too, since Distant Shores places the Choir's origins in Ular Kel alongside the Fold, but Battlecry! describes Kaer Maga as the center of their movement. Unless the implication is that the members of the Choir made a long pilgrimage to unite with the members of the Fold there.

vyshan wrote:

keftiu wrote:

Arkat wrote:

Some of you guys seem to think the Thrunes losing is a done deal.

I wouldn't bet on that if I were you.

I think Cheliax the nation is slated for some reversals, but I bet Abrogail II is going to get something she wants - apotheosis, maybe?

If she becomes a deity, where would she fit into Hell's Hiearchy, and what would her edicts, anathamas, domains, weapon, etc be.

Abby's depicted as keeping a corrupted Heart's Edge close, FWIW.

I don't think it's corrupted in the sense that it canonizes Hell's Vengeance PCs having gone through the steps to transform it into Heart's Bane. It's just that Abrogail has used it for a wicked deed (the execution of Egorian's entire Iomedaean clergy, personally decapitated by her hand) and hasn't bothered to clean it. Whether that's the first step of some hellish ritual to ascend to something or just makes the sword a particularly grisly trophy remains to be seen.

Oh wow, I've been WAITING for a Curse of the Crimson Throne game! I can adjust my Varisian Warpriest of Desna, Gerinel, to fit the entry specifications right quick! (He was made for a Curse of the Crimson Throne game that died unfortunately quickly).

1) So, the RWBY archetype? "It's also a gun!"

Personally to me that feels more like the "maze core devices" developed by the nuars (who you can get close to replicating in 2e by importing the minotaur ancestry with the littlehorn heritage, given the very strong implications in 1e that while they were only called "minotaur-like" in text, their species name and the fact that Absalom Station seemed to be the closest thing they have to a homeworld indicated a historical connection to Nuar Spiritskin, a minotaur in Absalom specifically notated to be smaller than average, but I digress). Items built with a maze core could shift between two different forms and functionalities, the way RWBY weapons do, while the post you were quoting was more along the lines of a 2e combination weapon, I think.

Attachments for guns like a bayonet, or a chainsaw. I want the gun from Gears of War.

Seconded. I've wanted to play an Operative who dual-wields pistols with attached knives for close-quarters combat since 1e, like a sci-fi version of the gal in this picture!

I would like to see my nova lances back, please.

Double-seconded! The cryopike is nice, but it doesn't quite deliver on the lightsaber pike fantasy.

The Mystic entry says "You are always considered part of your own bond", so I think you could totally target yourself!

Oh, that's fantastic! I've wanted to make a Xenodruid SPESS MEHREEN for a while!

The elemental weapon focus spell specifies the target is "1 willing bonded creature." Am I correct in assuming the Mystic cannot target themselves with this spell if they're looking to gish?

Justnobodyfqwl wrote:

"Vlakas who witnessed the rebirth of their dying sun, Sota, are marked with starburst patterns that match their natural blessing to kindle light."

That's right everyone.... LASER WOLVES 2.0

And at the Festival of Rekindling, you can buy a miniature replica of the star, Sota.

Yes, that means you can have a...

MINI SOTA.

Well now I have to play a vlaka solarian! :D

As much as I'd like to see all the old classes make it to SF2e in some form or another eventually. I think after the mechanical and technomancer, it would be nice to see something new, the same goes for ancestries, although it sounds like the first new ancestry is in Murder in Metal City.

Yep, khizars!

I like Entropath, but mostly because it is evocative of the Warhammer 40k Astropath.

Astropaths are one of my favorite aspects of the 40k universe, and I've wanted to play a "battle astropath" in a game like Rogue Trader or Dark Heresy for a while.

I was already excited, but finding out my favorite space fish's voice actor is heading the cast?! The Kickstarter can't come fast enough!

Kind of bold and a bit risky of Paizo to give Sarenrae, Iomedae, and Desna no mention in their 2e Starfinder Player's Core not gonna lie.

There's mention, it's just kinda in passing. Desna is referenced as the Song of the Spheres in the Rhythm Mystic Connection, for example. Besides, they're three of the most popular PC deities in either game, I think they can handle waiting to get emphasis in later adventure paths or deluxe adventures.

What's interesting is that Desna kind of got MORE stuff in her portfolio in 1e Starfinder because she was essentially filling in for Shelyn as a music goddess, emphasizing the "Song" part of her "Song of the Spheres" title.

So it does make a certain amount of sense that she's stepping back from the metaphorical spotlight now that Zon-Shelyn is establishing themselves both literally in-universe as their older churches reorganize and figuratively as we learn more about them and get a feel for them at the table.

Archpaladin Zousha wrote:

moosher12 wrote:

And lastly, Vanguard is probably not gonna be a Vanguard perse. Frankly, it's name is misleading, and will become especially misleading when Pathfinder classes join the mix, as vanguard does little to invoke its actual abilities. So it would likely be due for a name change. I vote Entropath.

To be truthful, this is part of the reason why Vanguard never "clicked" with me in 1e. It felt like the entropy-related aspects were just kind of "there" in the class without clear guidance on their place within the setting apart from the villain-coded Ataxxea. Were you supposed to be spiritual as a Vanguard? No clue, the class text didn't really offer an opinion the way it did for Solarians. It felt redundant with Solarians narratively and felt like it was more interested in its mechanical role of "tank class" than it was in its narrative role of "empowered by entropy."

Obviously this is more a failure of imagination on my part, because the class seemed to be very popular from my admittedly limited experience, but I just could never really come up with character concepts whose narratives would be best served by being a vanguard...

Same. Vanguard was a giant set of off-putting mistakes to me.

I could easily see something similar mechanically and flavor-wise show up as a Solarian class archetype. Hopefully the name can be reclaimed by a more fitting class fantasy.

And it didn't help that we got to see actual variants of the Solarian in the form of things like the "electromagnus" solarians from Tech Revolution (which I imagine will return in the future, likely as a class archetype).

And lastly, Vanguard is probably not gonna be a Vanguard perse. Frankly, it's name is misleading, and will become especially misleading when Pathfinder classes join the mix, as vanguard does little to invoke its actual abilities. So it would likely be due for a name change. I vote Entropath.

To be truthful, this is part of the reason why Vanguard never "clicked" with me in 1e. It felt like the entropy-related aspects were just kind of "there" in the class without clear guidance on their place within the setting apart from the villain-coded Ataxxea. Were you supposed to be spiritual as a Vanguard? No clue, the class text didn't really offer an opinion the way it did for Solarians. It felt redundant with Solarians narratively and felt like it was more interested in its mechanical role of "tank class" than it was in its narrative role of "empowered by entropy."

Obviously this is more a failure of imagination on my part, because the class seemed to be very popular from my admittedly limited experience, but I just could never really come up with character concepts whose narratives would be best served by being a vanguard...

It's true! She's got a surprisingly large following in the Veskarium, who interpret her with draconic aspects like dragon wings, calling her "The Firescale." There's even a cathedral to her on Vesk Prime called the Church of the Firewalker in the middle of the desert.

I mean, Iomedae gets plenty of mention in the Galaxy Guide with the Knights of Golarion chapter. Heck, her name's on every feat for their Archetype! :P

Wait, are we talking advances like overtures of political favor in exchange for ignoring clearly criminal acts perpetrated by the Crown, or romantic advances?! I thought Toulon was married already!

The origin story of the Hellknights in Starfinder is in Era of the Eclipse. I'm only on chapter 10, so I'm not sure yet how that lines up with how they are in the Galaxy Guide, but from what little I know from Era of the Eclipse so far, I'm not expecting Hellknights to remain unchanged from the PF2e timeline, Hellknights waking up from the Gap is frightening...

I gotta get my hands on that book.

I've always heard Kevin Michael Richardson's voice in my head when imagining Old-Mage Jatembe. I don't know if it's just because I played Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic at an early age and found his performance as Jolee Bindo functioning as metacommentary on Star Wars and RPG tropes in general witty or what but I just can't imagine him as sounding any other way.

Words alone cannot express the pitch this crossover announcement made me shriek with delight at.

Bravo you absolute madlads, madlasses and madenbies! Bra-vo!

I'm so unbelievably happy right now!!!

I just came from the Tennocon stream and HOLY ZON-SHELYN THEY'RE DOING AN OFFICIAL WARFRAME×STARFINDER CROSSOVER THINGY!!!!!

My favorite silly concept is a Witchwarper android who is obsessed with Pinball. They've body modified their android parts to have a functioning pinball machine in their chest. Their Witchwarper quantum field is a field of bumpers and flippers that makes difficult terrain. They line up their shot with Measure and Ricochet as cantrips.

So they're a pinball wizard? There has to be a twist!

Pretty much the thread title. The Hellknights have been an iconic organization for Pathfinder and Starfinder for years, and we got their latest iteration in the Galaxy Guide, complete with their Archetype to play as. And I have things I like about how they've been fleshed out from the relatively sparse info they had in 1e of how they'd evolved since the Gap...but there's other aspects that make me feel like more than ever now they make better antagonists than protagonists.

The Hellknights of yore straddled an interesting line in terms of their beliefs, regarding Hell as a model of efficiency and order, but that its malice held it back from embodying true order as much as Heaven's softheartedness did. They wanted to learn from Hell but Hell was not their master. This is why the Test that an armiger takes to graduate into full knighthood is fighting and defeating a summoned devil in single combat, to prove themselves above Hell's temptations and capable of improving on and turning their tactics against them.

That being said, their reality rarely lived up to that supposed ideal, with various Hellknight orders subverted by devils into serving Hell's agenda, whether unwittingly or willingly. The Order of the Gate was probably one of the starkest examples, given their Paravicar was a full-on diabolist and the Order trying to figure out ways to divine crimes before they happened a la Minority Report. We can only wonder how much worse the situation will become in the upcoming Inner Sea War when Abrogail Thrune nationalized the orders to fight on Cheliax's behalf.

And it looks like by the time Starfinder occurs, it looks like much, MUCH worse. According to the Galaxy Guide "They don't support any corporation or government directly--they bow only to Hell" implies that the corruption of Orders like the Gate has spread to the entire Hellknight cause. The ideal of taking Hell's order and improving upon it, of learning from it but not taking orders from it, seems to have been discarded, leaving only obedience to Hell's cruel agenda in its place. They've even opened membership to literal devils, with the devil soldier Loomarch rising to become Lictor of the Order of the Pyre.

The other Orders don't seem much better. The Order of the Crucible "tests" alien civilizations, the text noting the arbitrary nature of said tests and calling it "winnowing." The fascist undertones are clear, especially when that's followed by mentioning one of their "success stories" is the Gideron Authority, a civilization that's repeatedly been painted as villainous by the text compared with the Marixah Republic throughout 1e Starfinder.

The Order of the Eclipse produces planet-wide media blackouts in its quest to protect against "dangerous media" and "infohazards," a mandate that will likely chafe with the majority of characters and their players through a shared cultural mistrust of censorship.

The Order of the Chain seems on first glance to be the tamest of the four, indeed improved from their initial Pathfinder days where their bounty-hunting included slave-catching for Chelaxian nobles. But what does an order of bounty hunters tracking criminals and fugitives need with an orbital laser?

This, along with the softening image of the Free Captains by emphasizing the anarchist collective aspects of the organization rather than ruthless piracy (though the capstone ability of their Archetype that lets them force the soul of a slain enemy into eternal service for them at least shows they're not complete Robin Hoods now) gives a strong impression of where our sympathies should lie, in my opinion. I don't think it's necessarily a BAD thing overall, the Hellknights have started many, MANY debates on these forums throughout their existence, and the direction the writing is going in is part of a wider cultural trend towards rejecting hierarchical systems of authority and skepticism towards law enforcement. Hellknights are, at the end of the day, cops. And as the popular anarchist slogan goes "All Cops Are Bastards." (a popular sentiment as well, considering the strong critical response to the Agents of Edgewatch adventure path's writing seeming to encourage and make excuses for PCs behaving in a corrupt and violent manner the way your average police procedural show does). Plus, the Knights of Golarion are RIGHT THERE as unambiguously heroic knightly figures, with an added opposition TO the kinds of tyranny Hellknights get contracted to enforce (emphasized further by an explicit rivalry between the two organizations).

That being said, however, I feel if that's the way they want to take the Hellknights, why even have a player Archetype for them anymore? The text strongly signals to me that the Hellknights have gone full-villain-mode, and bright spots like the Order of the Torrent and the Pike have either disbanded or have discarded the Hellknight "brand" and we wouldn't recognize them as such now. Despite all I've said above, I do still have a soft spot for the "Lawful Good Hellknight" character trope, the dark-armored, brooding hardass who nonetheless maintains their moral compass and is a hero because they hold themselves to the same rigorous standards they hold for the world. Discworld's Sam Vimes would probably be the most easily recognizable character of this kind to the netizens of these forums.

But what do you think? Would it be better if Starfinder just leaned into the Hellknights as villains and stopped trying to accomodate PCs joining the organization? Are there ways to roleplay modern Starfinder Hellknights in more heroic ways that don't just gloss over the now much more overt and concrete service to Hell and all that implies? Or is the only way to be a "good" Hellknight now is to quit? Please, PLEASE be respectful to each other in discussion, I'm well aware that the position Hellknights occupy in the narrative touches on real-world issues people have very strong feelings about all over the political spectrum. Indeed part of my reason for thinking about this in the first place is because my own positions on these issues have evolved and changed over time and I see the Hellknights differently than I did when I first started playing Pathfinder. Thank you.

Darn, I missed it!

I guess I'll have to wait till it's on the YouTube channel or something. Wanna see two of my current hyperfixations directly interacting!

Me too! Solidarity with fellow workers!

*goes back to vibrating with excitement*

Player Core 2 says this in the introduction text to sorcerer:

"Self-reflection and study allow you to refine your inherent magical skills and unlock new, more powerful abilities."

So study is still a thing for sorcerers, but it's also tied to reflecting on the self because the self is where the magic comes from.

I know you're not supposed to be this obnoxiously literal but now I can't get rid of the mental image of a Sorcerer who improves their powers by literal study of their self's reflection in a mirror to the point where Narcissus himself thinks it's a bit tacky! XD

That would be STELLAR (pun wholly intended)! You could even use the Knights of Golarion as a framing device, since 2e is bringing a lot more focus on their capacity as historians of Lost Golarion and protectors of her scattered children.

I'd like such advice as well: it's also hard to read the text on the map except maybe in PDF form where you have a zoom feature. That is one TINY font there!

Archpaladin Zousha wrote:

Stepping into the Doylist perspective for a moment, it WOULD be kind of cool if Paizo decided to shake up not just their status quo, but the fantasy RPG status quo in general by having Asmodeus dethroned in their version of Hell as a way of making it more distinct from its predecessor (which is so entrenched in the RPG-playing public's consciousness that people STILL call it "the Nine Hells" when playing Pathfinder even though that hasn't been the case in the actual text for YEARS)!

You're referring specifically to the name "The Nine Hells," right? Not the actual number of distinct zones? Just double checking that I didn't miss some shakeup to the layout of Hell in PF's cosmology, somehow.

Yeah, just the name. It just bugs me when I'm playing Pathfinder and a player character says "Hells!" or "What in the Hells?" due to this cultural inertia. This isn't Forgotten Realms! Similar to how it annoys me when someone says they'll stay behind to "hold down the fort." The fort is not a bouncy castle filled with helium! It's just "hold the fort!" It's a military metaphor!

It wouldn't even be too much of a stretch to adapt the song: "Katapeshi Nights, like Katapeshi days!"

There are probably powers in Hell who wouldn't mind a change in leadership (like Erecura's whole deal is "she's up to something, but you won't find out until too late to do anything about it") but I would be surprised if any of them figure this is the right time to make their move.

Stepping into the Doylist perspective for a moment, it WOULD be kind of cool if Paizo decided to shake up not just their status quo, but the fantasy RPG status quo in general by having Asmodeus dethroned in their version of Hell as a way of making it more distinct from its predecessor (which is so entrenched in the RPG-playing public's consciousness that people STILL call it "the Nine Hells" when playing Pathfinder even though that hasn't been the case in the actual text for YEARS)!

I doubt they'd actually DO it so soon after Gorum's death (though technically you COULD have Asmodeus kicked off Hell's throne WITHOUT killing him) because it'd invalidate a lot of the canon they just established in Divine Mysteries and would cause Pathfinder and Starfinder to further diverge into separate canons, but it'd be gutsy.

Speaking of Galaxy Guide... *inhales* AZRINARAN ELF HERITAGE WHEN?!

I'll be honest, I struggle to imagine how that would work outside time-travel scenarios.

Nothing like an old-fashioned nice guy who just wants to help! I adore Grimmyr and wish him the best!

"Ἕτοιμος!"

To be honest, I wondered why Szuriel was on the cover of War of Immortals when it seemed like she wasn't doing anything really out of the ordinary in the text itself (almost all mentions of her are in regard to her cultists doing things in her name rather than her directly involving herself). Maybe it turns out she was playing the long game this whole time!

Archpaladin Zousha wrote:

Recently got the itch to play a martial character whose weapon of choice is some kind of reinforced metal-handled shovel,...

Thinking of this guy? Don't forget your trowel. :)

Well, I am NOW! (I really gotta watch this movie...) XD

This is a real thing

Fangbian Chan (or Monk Spade)

But, just a shovel

pole arm, slashing, with versatile B, two handed. I wanna say... D10

I thought that already existed in 2e as the Dueling Spear?

Oh yeah, I forgot about the Fighting Oar! The Leiomano would probably be a good way to do it for a one-hander too, now that I think about it.

Historical ones (like the Roman design) had a lot in common with pickaxes, so basing it on a pick (or Greatpick for the 2h version) would make a lot of sense. PF1 had the Mattock for it.

More modern ones are often spades with sharpened edges.

You bring up a good point there: an edge isn't necessarily sharp enough to deal slashing damage. You don't expect the flanges of a mace to cut like an axehead...

Recently got the itch to play a martial character whose weapon of choice is some kind of reinforced metal-handled shovel, and I figure I'd need to homebrew it considering the alternative would be the Weapon Improviser archetype, which would be more along the lines of having a golf bag of normal shovels so I never run out of them when they break, which while a funny mental image isn't quite what I'm looking for.

So, what kinda weapons should I be looking for as "bases" to extrapolate from? What traits should it have? Should it be versatile S to simulate making swings with the edge or solely bludgeoning? Should it be a standard-length shovel as a two-handed weapon, or more like e-tool length and wielded with a pick in the other hand?

The book doesn't elaborate, but given the language used (namely, "default") it seems what this Rider (Owyn Darkoath by name, now that I can reference the book again) hopes that the war will force Abrogail II into a position where she can no longer hold up her end of the bargain, which I imagine would mean helping steer things so Cheliax loses BADLY. Given that at that stage, Cheliax would basically no longer be able to prosecute any war, the goal is for the victors of the conflict to be immediately forced into battle with basically a Hellish invasion of Golarion while they're battered and tired from fighting Cheliax. The whys of the war aren't important to Owyn. Just the eventual scale of it.

Is there any chance of Hell sending infernal repo men to seize the whole country?

That IS a possibility that was hinted at in War of Immortals:

Ulka needs a friggin' hug! TwT

I got two:

Magus, because I'm struggling to master its specific action economy, but it's the only way to play the kind of gish character I wanted without dipping into third-party options (Technically I want a divine gish but none of the divine classes fit the character, so I'm just playing a Magus with an Oracle free archetype stapled on to it)

Druid, because the plant-based order has a mandatory familiar, and you can't adjust it to be an object the way other familiar-having classes can.

True, but this is kind of a corner-case since unicorns are both fey and holy.

Got the desire to add another entry to my ever-lengthening list of hypothetical PCs and hit a snag: The base concept is a Champion of some sort of tie to the fey, using the Fey Influence tree of feats and possibly multiclassing into Sorcerer. Grandeur seems like the best cause, to be a gallant Faerie or Green Knight who protects the beauty of nature, frolics with unicorns and rescues damsels in the woods.

Trouble is, Grandeur requires Holy Sanctification, something explicitly NOT granted by any of the Eldest, to reflect their capricious, aloof, or just plain mean nature. Playing the nature angle kind of works, but Gozreh has the same issue and while the Green Faith can choose holy, the text regarding them implicitly states that this is incredibly rare compared to those of proper nature deities who are naturally allied with the Faith.

The closest thing I could think of was Shelyn, for whom Grandeur Champions are the most common and who is the ultimate fan of courtly love, but wasn't sure of that was too obvious a choice, since she also implicitly has a bias towards artifice in beauty, which sets her apart from so-called "nature gods." Her partners, Desna and Sarenrae as well as the three of them as the Radiant Prism, feel similarly "detached" from the kind of nature most commonly associated with fey, more "stars and rainbows" than "flowery bowers and enchanted woods" if that makes sense?

So am I on the right track with this or is there a deity I'm missing that would be a better fit?

I'm wondering if we'll finally get some clue to the identity or motivations of the Great Master...

*sits up and points*

NARRATIVE DECLARATION! I love that show!

Well the skulls for Warhammer 40K have to come from somewhere. Unless there is a Bone Dimension where they mine skulls for the skull throne.

WELCOME TO THE ELEMENTAL ZONE OF BONE!!! *dj airhorn sound effect*

[https://www.wargamer.com/pathfinder/draconic-codex-monster-core-2]

For those interested in a little sneak peak.

Somebody better pick up that phone CUZ I FREAKIN' CALLED IT!!! XD

-an Apocalypse Dragon, a dragon tied to Abaddon, which is a big swamp, and is said to have its body twisted by necrosis.

I'd wager probably this one, as they're fighting over a vast cemetery, which to me suggests they're in the Boneyard.