That does suggest no expense as opposed to the cost he would normally endure if copied from a spell book. However I dont feel I can (and the DM has read this bit too)use this to demonstrate that the spell doesnt require a time component to scribe into a spell book.
When a Magus gains a new level beyond first, he gains two new spells as in accordance with the quotation from Ultimate Magic being:
"At each new magus level, he gains two new magus spells of any spell level or levels that he can cast (based on his new magus level) for his spellbook."
1)Now are these two new spells per level gained...
a) Transferred from scrolls or
2) Any which way hes obtained them above. Are these spells able to be written into his spell book at no cost or time loss?.
This is a bit of an absurd post?
I think the writers of Pathfinder would agree. They wrote a system trying to recreate reality on paper, a hard task indeed. However if you expect every little situation to be covered your expecting a little much and complaining about rulebook size...where instead you need a bit of logic.
You obviously haven't flipped a snake on its back before, unless dead...cause its impossible. Perhaps a section may flip or land wrong, but I guarantee it will be ready to attack faster than you could. You can throw it too, it wont land "prone" and the second it touches the ground its moving, not stuffing around trying to get up...not when compared to a human.
If a tripped legged creature falls to the ground. Then, while involving a twist and occupying its protective and evasive limbs, it stands, requiring considerably more time. During which theres of course, no time to dodge. A snake doesnt stand in that fashion, it merely flips any section of its body that may have landed uncomfortably and in a fraction of a second in comparison to almost every other legged creature takes to stand...enough for it to never be considered prone or disadvantaged.
If you tripped a human in a fight, or any legged creature, youd jump on him cause you know hes disadvantaged. Id love to see someone try that with a snake.
"When rules cant cover it, pray your DM has logic!".
- If he's inside of a wall, can he see/hear what's happening in an adjacent room?
Sure, just add the perception mod of the stone walls remaining thickness to his check.
- Can he cast (while he's inside of the wall) into an adjacent room?
Nope, he cant see the area so no line of sight. Plus hows he meant to execute the verbal component when talking into dirt. Its like having a rag in your mouth and trying to talk clearly.
- Can he emerge(what exactly that means?), cast a spell and then go back inside the wall?
Sure, if his movement permits or he has the appropriate feats. The walls like air so it doesnt effect what he can normally do.
But thats where it gets a bit unrealistic. You see if you cant take a 5ft step then standard to attack, cause its a move action then a standard action and you can only do either. Then how can you still charge from even further away than the above example and attack by using the charge limited to standard action?
I understand the staggered condition to be this...
So does this mean while staggered, if you take a standard action, you cant also take a 5 foot step?
However, if the act is say doing something like opening a door which can be seen or even casting a spell which can be heard all which provokes an att of op. Then Id assume they can take an attack of op based on this pereception, even though your invisible?
And if you cant pass through their 5ft square invisible (seems unrealistic, but ok). Then does the character get any bonus to his acrobatic check cause he cant be seen when taking it?
Finally and this is the hard one. If you do attempt acrobatics through an enemies 5ft square while invisible and you fail. Does the enemy get the attack of op provoked if he cant do attack of ops? (as the rules state under concealment)
1) Attack of Opportunity= If I was to be in a threatened square while invisible and do something that provokes an attack of opportunity. Or simply leave the threatened square. As I have full concealment, do they still get to make attack of opportunities without any visual clues to trigger them?
2) Passing Through An Enemy Square= Can an invisible person pass through an opponents square of the same size when invisible? I couldnt do so with acrobatics, as without any invisibilty bonus, the DC was too high to pass him. Any attempts would provoke an attack of opportunity on my fail and so leading to my eventual death if I continued trying it. I couldnt do it with stealth either as the Dm didnt think it sounded correct in doing so, as with invis bonuses i was virtually undetectable and would escape.
3) Enemy Passing Through Your Square= CAn you allow an enemy to pass through your square when invisible? Even if you are flat footed? Figured it may be like Over-run feat where you can simply chose to stand aside and let them pass (but not when flat footed).
4) Flat Footed= I was eventually forced to attack exposing my position. When this attack was conducted I was invisible, so I reappeared. Does this mean I appear when I hit him or before I try and thinking to do so... so the orc isnt flat footed to my first attack as he knows Im "out there somewhere", but when I reappear to attack he sees me and so is not flat footed?
So I was stuck, with an orc blocking my 5ft passage out and unable to pass him sliding against walls past him or even stealthfully moving through. So I was forced to attack, revealed my position and in an encampment of 2000 orcs....game over.
I hope this makes sense and you can assist.
It does make more sense, any creature can be hacked and fall unconscious, then without attendance, bleed out. No matter what it is. Making it apply only to players removes from the realism. I guess its just assumed that a monster is dead when it falls cause the characters after the combat will go around cutting throats of the fallen enemy, ensuring their death or they simply bleed out during the minute or two it takes to loot their bodies.
I have a Druid and his animal companion but had the following questions I cant answer.....
1) Does a Druids animal companion start with full hit points at first level or need it roll for its hit points.
2) Does the companion die at 0 hp like monsters do or at its negative con score like player characters?
The flash bomb was thrown by an alchemist.
I was asked to roll a reflex save as equally as the "enemy" (a horse and Ill explain this later) and I rolled one shy of the DC, so there was no bonuses given. Bit rough I thought as I was watching the action while an unaware horse who doesnt know what a flash bomb is and not waiting for it like me, got the same save (we hadnt been seen by the enemy or horses, but we were aware of their impending arrival and could hear them moving forward at a slower pace from behind the collums). I did say something, like the plan was just very cinematic and I thought a great one and I wasnt sure an ambushing participant would watch the explosion when he knew it would blind him and could watch the alchemist go to throw the bomb as the trigger to shut his eyes (when the horses couldnt) but it was overridden pretty quick and I had to roll my reflex save.
The enemy in question were actually horses drawing a carriage (I didnt mention this as its a bit more embarrassing and it didnt matter really so I simplified the example here but now see some complexity raised). We knew the carriage was due to arrive as the front mounted guards had already galloped past and not spotted us and we knew the carriage was next (which was moving about 20-30ft per round). My next move was either to attack the unblinded horse, if they saved, to stop the carriage or run up to the carriage if they were blinded, as a move and try open the carriage door(my job was to run up to the carriage once stopped and try open the door and release a prisoner, so I needed my full round move to do this. Sorry if this changes the dynamic, but it was a lengthy description as is and I was trying to simplify it. I assumed the flash was a fraction of a second in time and as my act was described to be "delayed" with the sole intention to do my bit, I was thinking the act of my colleague throwing the bomb was my trigger to jump into action so shutting my eyes was a natural thing done outside of my intended act. That was the exact scenario and DM didnt suggest this complexity while I was delaying the prior two rounds with our plan in mind, but when I mentioned I obviously would shut my eyes when the bomb was thrown before my colleague had thrown it (cause I knew this Dm would probably make me blinded if I hadnt, which is fair).So the wait for this second carriage entailed two rounds of a delayed action. I only delayed as we were heavily outnumbered and warned by an NPC that the 10 hell guards were too tough for us, so we should grab and run and I needed as much of my round to do this so I delayed my action with my trigger to be to move into play once my colleague had thrown his bomb. But either way the DM didnt appear open to a discussion about it at all and simply stated the act of blinking is a free action so must be taken on my turn and that its not my turn. which I felt a bit rough as he knows I dont know the rules as well as him so he could have cut some slack on this first experience, but hes a bit like that with rules (hes a lawyer). Even tougher when he knew I was an integral role in opening the carriage and if this plan wasnt executed correctly there was a very real chance of a TPK due to being outnumbered etc as there was only three of us.
We were playing a pathfinder adventure module of first level (one where you needed to get a hostage from the carriage and escape with them)
Thats as much detail as I can remember.
Im pretty sure he said free action, and so only in my turn. But it was a bummer not to be able to alter the mechanic, especially considering I was delaying my round ready to do this discussed plan prior anyway.
We came across an unusual circumstance during our last game and hoping some here may clarify better than we could.
Basically the party (including me) decided to lay in wait on two sides of an entrance hiding behind collums. The plan was that one of these persons hiding behind the collum would throw a flash bomb once the enemy walked through this opening and the other would attack while the enemy was blinded.
Now when this was due to occur (I was the one who was going for the suprise attack)and the enemy was spotted walking between the collums (who hadnt seen us). I said to the DM that of course when I saw the bomb being thrown by my collegue behind the other collum at the enemy I would naturally blink enough to avoid the flash then attack(I did not say it after the bomb had been thrown)
The DM said that this couldnt be done because blinking was a free action, so it must be done on my turn and as it wasnt my turn in the inititative yet, it ws the bomb throwers, I couldnt blink.So then I was blinded as well as the our enemy.
Im not sure if the rules say this, or I should have "readied an blinking action" instead. Which would have effectively bogged down our plan.
Im not sure if this is taking rules to an extreeme, as how I see it, moving ones head, or arm should equally be free acts too and theres plenty of this going on within a six second round as is, free or otherwise. So I didnt really think blinking would need anymore attention that forewarning my Dm prior to the flash that I would shut my eyes for the brief second when the bomb was due to hit the ground and explode.
So is this taking the rules too far or does this seem reasonable within the games mechanics?
Thanks Ashiel. Sounds a good idea. But Ill give it thought due to time restraints and so it may not be for a while.:)
Id like to point out that the below is said straight and isnt sarcastic at all.I concur with Calypsopoxta.
I made a error of judgement ashiel. I at first I thought you one of these guys that are so self assured that they see everything the way they want than what it is, must be right, and willing to say anything to prove it.(a bit of an ego, pet hate). So i thought id step up to it and find a challanging opponent in the arena that would be entertaining to beat, especially if they came to the game fuming and determined to smack me silly.
But to be mature, man enough, and yet humble enough to step forward and say what you have above in the way that you have, rather than a "your a bstard!" and stomp off? Im blown away. I have you totally wrong, you are actually a man I respect and I owe YOU the apology. Ive been speaking to the wrong person in the wrong way.
Your welcome to think lowly of me, Id quite understand. But I thought it important to meet your maturity and let you know you have not only returned my respect by posting that last post, but its moreso than when we first started bickering.
I take my hat off to you, as youll be getting no more trouble from me, and thank you for being so incredibly mature in its resolution.
I think we should. Some people want to use wish etc. I think thats what a fighter is going to need, but its a bit unfair too pull out in an arena like battle. Support the classes abilities with items, but dont get something thats obviously wayward.
Settle Grettle? Besides, what are you talking about? If you dont want to enter such a stupid debate, then dont walk into one and start debating something else, cause your going to look stupid? Like now. This is a thread about one on one. Everyone whos posted in it has followed suit but you keep going on about how wonderful your fighter is with everyone in the parties help against the summoner help and all his magic bits. You do realize this enough for yo not to check your saying whats been asked or just saying what you want? Go find a fighter thread if youd like to rave about fighters, cause thats not what this poster has asked?
"Notice that with the fighter example, the I noted that the most expensive item that he had was the +5 weapon, and noted several times that the fighter I posted was one that could do well in a variety of situations versus a variety of opponents? "
Here we go again. I again recommend you read the point of this thread cause your just looking stubborn and foolish now? Nobody cares about your fighter, we want to compare these two builds in battle, not pat your pet twinkles.
"I said if it was just about killing the other guy, then time stop + pure killing would do that, but it wouldn't really mean anything. Classes are valued based on their ability to contribute, not just their ability to kill something."
Bravo. Yes in game its about contribution sure. But we arnt in game are we, we are responding to someones thread. If you dont like what the thread has asked, go to another one? No need for rah-dee-rah. I think your sore cause you know your goofed it and the fighter is disguised in wedged in a small crack too frightened to come out (contributing!)
"As to a PvP match, if you must. I would request that we find an unbiased 3rd party, run a single build through a variety terrains / encounter locations, and so forth. Likewise, we could do it on OpenRPG or something similar."
Very well put. Unfortunately,Im not "If you must", try "If everyone must" if you had read Wraithstrike has presented a sensible solution that covers all you have requested and he obviously loves his fighter build too but he gets the point here?. In fact he and Calypsopoxta are ready to battle (almost)and have already covered all yourabove expectations very well. So if you havent read that either yet, Im wondering why your calling me blind when you havent seen what everyone is talking about? Or stubborn cause when asked to re-read you maintain adamantcy your build is still wonderful for any environment.
So lets stop the trumpets from blaring cause your reminding me of one of those kids who rocks up to anothers birthday party and starts wanting all the attention. You should start another post if you have a super fighter. If you have a fighter who can handle a summoner than give it a go, but Ive honestly not seen anything without requiring outside assistance yet? Which isnt really supporting the build when its being supported by other classes?
...Whos sneak attacking? Are you talking generally again or have you mistaken the summoners abilities, probably general. Greater invis 50% miss chance and the summoners not bought anything yet?Theres only one way to solve this isnt there?...lol...for me to kick your shiny butt!...but Im off overseas for a fortnight soon so Ill try do up a build if Ive got the time.
Magic does win, however you are aren't considering the fighter's options. Any fighter who cannot counter invisible creatures, or fly, at 20th level is a failure and will always be a failure. With only so much as a see invisibility effect, the fighter would tear the summoner to pieces very quickly, rendering most of the situation moot."
Well if you need your magic stuff to help, you better chose them wizely, especially if your in an antimagic field!
youd be tripped, pushed, grappled etc etc before you hit the summoner. then when the summoned is due to drop...blam...new one. you can chase the summoner if you like, bit hard if hes frying you while you fight his creatures or an eilodon himself after you somehow escape all his summoned, offensive and teleportation spells. plus many creatures, many options, spells and many attacks from these sources.
does the fighter get dispel magic greater too? Cause all these magic items suited for antimagic fields and assistant buffs against their a dispel, all look a bit dodgy to me?
Calypsopoxta, 3 minutes ago
This is fun...ok...
5a= Your still asking for help arnt you? You claim later the fighter needs magic stuff, but hes now in an antimagic field? Is he still large too for those bonuses? Just incase you had an "antimagic Ring"...lol...your Eilodon doesnt disappear entirely? Only when in your field that which your now hiding. So Eilodon sits in your feild, summoner teleport, greater invis to hide etc etc...antimagic field blinks out and as the Eilodons been right behind you watching, suprize!= clanker death
6) Quad. 26 evol points. 10= Huge= +16 str +8 con etc
"7) Our fighter has a fairly solid defense against most will saves since he gets a +5 vs fear effects and a casting of protection from evil will keep him warded for hours on end (or he could just get protection from evil permanently added to his armor)."
i love this backdrop army you own! No caster dresses to hide behind here! your fighting one? Your playing one character not a fighter, wizard and cleric?
"8) Finally, our fighter can change sizes easily."
Look I really like fighters too. But Ive played both and if you had we wouldnt have a need to do this cause fighters are supposed to be able to fight, not take hits from a equal opponent AND spells at once each round.
Its a quick game. Your grappled, your history or if the eilodons only large or you cant be grappled, your tripped, pushed back and take more At.o.Ops on your stand up and charge? How about greater invis and 10ft reach, your not hitting as much now even if you can find him and shrug of the magic jars while you look?
Is there anything else?
Clanker death..... Case closed.
True, but do note theres a fighter and a wizard (cruel to exclude when people are passionate on them) being recommended to oppose a summoner, so there wouldnt be as much unfair biase? Besides with weapona and armor available it sounded fairer and the fighter had his base necessities?Otherwize would you entertain the classes disputes resolution being:
"I take a full attack and do 100hp damage!"
"Oh yeah! Well Ill now use my ring of three wishes!"
So to overcome this inevitable arguementative flaw, would you have any preferred suggestions?
I think this thread would be more fun with a scenario?
Lets say unbuffed, shoot out at 20ft at what ever level, no suprize. (it doesnt matter cause this summoners riding his Eilodon to slaughter town!..lol)
wraithstrike, 22 minutes ago
edit: I just noticed the level 20 comment. At 20 the eidolon better win initiative, and pray that it ends the fight. If not then timestop + gate + random whatever sends him and the summoner packing.
Summoner (Ready action dispel magic when the wizard casts)
Yep. I am assuming the summoner and Eilodon are in reach. Thats how they work. Why wouldnt the summoner be close when hes getting +4to ac and saves just by being close?
Despite both being in reach (within 20ft)with poss A.o.Op. The wizards now got a sleep and a black tentacles out and both successful before the summoner has had a turn?..lol...you do know theres two initiatives against one right, the probability doesnt look great?
Ashiel, 7 minutes ago
However, that's not why I'd take a fighter. I didn't really even intend that to be a contributing factor for the fighter (merely humor / random trivia). I would take the fighter because its fairly easy to get his AC up, change his combat tactics round to round, adjust from melee to ranged without a lot of trouble, and gain reach by merely equipping the correct weapon, become large with a cheap potion, get lunge if they want, etc.
Fighters have +5 BAB on an eidolon at 20th level, before factoring feats and abilities, which for the most part will make them equal or better at combat maneuvers like grappling. The fighter also has a full +5 more to his CMD as well because of it.
Also, and check this out, if the summoner is taken out, the party's tank doesn't go with 'em. He's also not subject to all the dismissal and banishment spells that people use to deal with pesky summons. Likewise, as best as I can tell, while protection from evil doesn't prevent contact by an eidolon, antimagic field shuts them down just like any other summoned creature.
So by the large, the fighter in general is better. The eidolon can be buffed to be similar to the fighter, but then having an equally buffed fighter would be better by comparison.
Should I go on?
I think youll need too.....
wraithstrike, 22 minutes ago
I am not putting money on the Eidolon against a caster, not ran by a competent player anyway. Anything that can get to a caster can kill it. That is why smart players make sure they don't get touched. Displacement,Mirror Image, Fly, Haste or Expeditious Retreat, Invis. That Eidolon probably has a weak will save. Put him to sleep, fear him, etc, or just ignore him and take out the summoner. Hit points alone are not the only way to take someone out of combat.
Not quite Wraith.
But the summoner is fighting a basic fighter here isnt he? If its wizard vrs summoner its different. However remember the wizards not dealing with one opponent. Kick your Eidolon and hes awake or waste a dispel. Wizard just lost his turn and with an Eilodon with reach, grapple, and 3-5 attacks AND a summoner spell to fend off per turn. I just cant see a wizard popping out many more spells, especially if hes taking damage while casting? He just better have teleport! Run away!!..lol
Archery is under the assumption you cant make a forbidable fighter from your summoner.
Summoner can use his Eidolons evolution points as he advances.
BenignFacist, 14 minutes ago
An eidolon with a summoner riding it will be a great deal harder to kill. It's hit points are much bulkier when both summoner and eidolon have diehard, which was part of my build, meaning you have to kill both to kill one. I planned to make sure the beastie had an amulet of mighty fists +5, since it ignores all but 1/- DR in pathfinder.
I didn't want to get into "this means that", "so-and-so can do this" ect. arguements until I had a good idea of what a generic optimized lvl 20 fighter typically had, feats and gear wise.
Doesn't that tactic require you to wait until your 14th level?
Im currently playing a Summoner with Eidolon that would absolutely maul a fighter at any equivalent level. But until you build a summoner yourself and have a good look at the evolutions, you may just browse the charts and understandably think theres no comparison.
nathan blackmer (Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber), 4 minutes ago
Thats a REALLy good idea! Although the concept of healing seems to fix just about anything, maybe a rejuv will be their way out of say a limp caused in such a manner, which reduses their base speed by 5 ft till the spell is cast. Then its a painful reminder to retard and remind them for a bit. Plus its not forgotten plus and a challenge to rid!
Im impressed. thats probably why in hebrew your name means "gift from the gods". Thanks!
Wolfthulhu (Pathfinder Charter Superscriber; GameMastery Superscriber), 5 hours, 39 minutes ago
'Sure reads like an attack. And it's totally off base.'
We are talking about DMs killing PCs and the angles all shared. Despite extended narrative, thats what the post related too right? However I felt some in these chats rooms have to relax a little, most seem a bit too serious. This isnt ego debating and although suttle, theres a lot of it here. So much so a poor Pathfinder staff member stepped in to sort it a few pages back!
I just thought Id throw something in that would make people smile to imagine experiencing. Jess sounds so sweet, theres no point in attacking her and hoped she shared a chuckle in the contrast of such extremes. But if your a serious one and that little smile didnt wedge free, then just trust in the PS note stating its not in any way meant to be an attack? Cause its my posting, and its not.
No need to justify her DMing either. Although you didn’t die, which is what happens with DMs who don’t want to kill you.
The underlying point to is, despite the laugh, was really that players enjoy a challenge and people may see DM niceness as a potentially malleable weakness or as non threatening, cause the DM will always be nice and try not to kill you. If you believe a DM is seriously out to kick your ass, maybe even a little mean, and you kick his, you feel an additional rush cause you know hes not mucking around. Truth is its making out you have an ego involved in the challenge too ( not in an over bearing game controlling way) and then allowing your ego to get beaten adds to the players rush. If they get beaten silly in a fight, especially if soon to the game or DMs introduction, it keeps them on their toes, attentive and determined the rest of the game.
Truth is I am a Jess like DM. I used to feel real bad when I had slain a PC. But i find it easier to instead come down harder at first, a real fight to survive and with a fallen PC (which will happen, nice style or not) to mentally refer too, who died brutally from a minor slip up (maybe not forgetting the chips!..lol). Becomes an example to refer to for all that didnt die and I that dont want to kill, that this is a serious world and if they dont wish to die, they need to be careful. Then its a shared death and others gulp a little, then focus even more cause they dont want to die. so for me a death has benifits, its not all bad. As for the departed. I believe its human nature for most players to step up to a challenge as equally as they enjoy stepping up to a fight, so make it appear twice the challenge and see twice the reward in their eyes when they win!
Jess Door (Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path Subscriber), 02:56 AM Flag | List | FAQ | Reply
I hate killing PCs. I can't help wincing as I roll a critical threat on one that's already hurt. I keep apologizing as I do enough damage with a monster in one blow to take more than half a PC's hit points away - I can't seem to help it,
Jess the DM= "Unfortunately an arrow from that nasty, nasty orc unluckily hits you during such heroic acts! (whats your hit points?....oh my golly gosh...)...umm...It digs a tad deeply though and, and, and... it actually kinda hurts a little bit. Soooo you feel the need to take a little nap now then you may feel better! So you comfortably fall back in a blanket of soft green clover. your eyes gently close and you smell the scent of showering pink pretty rose petals and hear trumpets blaring in solemn love for their fallen heroic, impressive, very intelligent and charming and pretty strong and (whats your charisma?)..even a bit sexy!..(whats your race?)...ahh.. half orc falls asleep like a little baby fairy snuggled up with mother in a little gum nut!!......so yes... your kind of not really very alive much now...anymore...sorta....and ...im just so so sorry....ok?.... ..umm....would you like a chip?"
NATHAN THE DM= "The orc tosses his girly bow and charges drawing this HUGE axe salivating madly from slimy fangs at the thought of drinking your babyface blood. He slashes brilliantly (roll....horah!!!) across your belly splattering your intestines everywhere and as you to grope at your spilling entrails pathetically attempting to stuff them back in. You fall to one knee allowing the now gleeful orc to pick out an eyeball with a sole dirty elongated fingernail to which he flicks back bouncing off your forehead before blackness prevails due to a savage btch slap with your bloody newly removed arm, causing the other eye ball to fly out yet attached and dangling via its pink optic nerve. You topple backward in HORRENDOUS pain as the lone eye is jostled around between hordes of goblins tearing at your useless fat FORGETFUL ass , giggling and betting on how many main organs they can eat (without the use of hands) before your heart stops beating in your mauled, now naked carcass that will soon be scooped clean and used for a gay hill giants matching hand bag and slipper set....so.....whos the tuff one now?...now THATS what I call a power attack!..hey?...sorry?..you say something?...yeah...thats right..…I didn’t think so…..Ok, so... Anyone else forget their initiative order besides the Mr Goldfish impersonator here?..by the way, you can go home now, and lets all see next week if you forget the chips"
Get in there! Take the kiddy gloves off and get your hands dirty. Take those pcs down. Its a do or die world and lets play it, not gay it!
You do this to your PCs, sure they will gasp, wince and moan and depart the room silently or with a sniff. Maybe they come back, maybe they dont. But if they do, they certainly listen more and hang on your every word cause they know one wrong move and BLAM they are eatin dust. People crave a challenge, death is their fear, take it away and youll get boredom (unless your all top notch roleplayers)
Im cruel, but when PCs leap out of the chair in excitement after they win an encounter and high five cause they over come the odds. I sit there with my inner smile.....because…...it worked...NOW i won.
PS= Im not this bad but you know what i mean and Jess. You sound a nice person and this isnt an attack at all ok. Its been a long day and Im just sharing a laugh, so thanks.
Why you guys trying to kill the troll?
Why you trying to work out how to kill it? Just cast charm monster and watch your enemies try work it out!
If you really have to kill it,…. with some quick thought, Id try this…
I think the general concensus is if stacking is permitted, which is doesnt appear so. then a gang of witches is awesome.
But put a first level fighter onto a first level witch and the only thing broken will be that witch!
In fact, put a witch up against most things mono-a-mono and i think youll see their weakness with a sole flimsy minor debuff. it all balances out really.
I just want to see a witch run for her life while cackling but apparently its not going to happen! But then its twice as funny to see a scared witch torn between laughing and running. i hope you can role play!!
As for overly stacking the same hex. most text can be read many ways, just think through whats logic and fair or inline with other classes and thats probably what it was meant to be.
In your example of 16, level 8 witches, it sure does show them as effective.
Augment summons works on monsters summoned by a summon spell. Not "summoned" by a ritual which is an ability, (not a summon spell from your spell list.)
Many people think of "gnome on steed", personally I think its a waste as a summoner. Heres why...
First your spells arnt offensive, but of those that do, riding and casting requires demands the core class cant really afford at lower levels.
It is safer to let your Eilodon charge in for the kill, then if it drops you give it hit points from the summoner to run away with the summoner, or just make the summoner run away and call his Eilodon back later. This doesnt seem like a lot, but tatically its a near unkillable character at lower levels. If your mounted when this happens, youll find out quickly your probably a goner too.
Plus your Eilodon gets so many tatical evolutions, they seem a waste to use on such a repetitive attack mode.
I ended up seeing that with so many buffs and hardly any offesive spells, taking the summoner for a simple spell caster may leave you with a peice of meat that sits there with nothing to do, as the Eilodon does his thing. So I made my summoner more like a Beastmaster in concept and as his ac isnt wonderful, found him better with reach.
Plus the summoner is not the hottest combatant, but youd be suprized what a team they make when constructed.
Eventually youll get a pouncing pet with a 10ft reach, 3 attacks at Att Bonus 11 and up to 32 points of damage.
And the summoner
Seems lame,but is as good as the Eliodon now. Hes got a 15ft reach, he sits in offensive/defense position protecting the wizards. He gets 4 Atts of Opportunity at 15ft reach with an Attack bouns 14 and damage 2d6 plus 12. Your cutting through those headed for the magic users as A.O.ops and you havent even had your turn yet. Which would be, 5 ft step back and youll find your ememies lined up for cleave. Then add the fact that your charging Eilodon has destroyed what hes charged at and now charging back to offer you a 10ft reaching flank from behind your ememies. Thats threatening a massive strip of board containing your emimies and all in a flanked possition with A.o.Ops from both sides so they become very limited in actions.
This angle gets uber crazy at higher levels due to the buff spells (Bulls, Cats Grace gives +2ac, +2 reflex saves and 2 more A.o.Ops) and the summoner can get evolutions at 10th (so does that make it a 20ft reach???)etc.....so i think Ill be pulling back in future and maybe making him ride at latter levels instead to do so!