Interaction of Blink and Grab?


Rules Questions

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If an attacker has Blink up, all their attacks have a 20% miss chance. If their attack also has Grab, do you roll the miss chance twice, once for the initial hit and once for the grapple attempt? Or do you just roll it once, for the initial hit?

The Exchange

I don't bother because even if said person grabbed another, second later they leave the plane so release the grapple. Can't grapple or be grappled when blink is involved.


Hmm, I can see how that makes sense, but the question came up for me while prepping a scenario where the bad guys are specifically called out as doing exactly this: casting blink on themselves, then attacking with an attack that gives a free grapple attempt on a hit, and the tactics say specifically that they are attempting to grapple the PCs (and, indeed, the rest of the encounter development doesn't really make sense without them doing so). So, even if your interpretation is correct RAW, the scenario author didn't write the scenario with that in mind, so how would you adjudicate it?

I'm inclined to give a miss chance to both the initial attack and the grab, since they are both attack rolls.

Shadow Lodge

Grab is a rider on a successful hit. You wouldn't re-roll the miss chance because you've already successfully hit on the initial attack.


Right, but you still need to make an attack roll (the grapple check) for grab to be successful. I can see an argument both ways.


Abraham Z. wrote:

So, even if your interpretation is correct RAW, the scenario author didn't write the scenario with that in mind, so how would you adjudicate it?

I'm inclined to give a miss chance to both the initial attack and the grab, since they are both attack rolls.

Recognize that the APs are often wrong about how the rules work and either completely rework the strategy or run it as is and let players know about the issue at the start of combat and tell them it's incorrect but you're choosing to run it as written.

The Exchange

^^^ this. Sometimes writers get it wrong.


Generally rider effects are not further affected by miss chances. I would not force a second roll.

Jeff Morse wrote:
I don't bother because even if said person grabbed another, second later they leave the plane so release the grapple. Can't grapple or be grappled when blink is involved.

Um! where does blink remove the ability to grapple or give you immunity to grapple? It might be slightly counter intuitive but I don't believe it affects grapple beyond the 20% miss chance on every (non-rider) grapple check.

Shadow Lodge

dragonhunterq wrote:

Generally rider effects are not further affected by miss chances. I would not force a second roll.

Jeff Morse wrote:
I don't bother because even if said person grabbed another, second later they leave the plane so release the grapple. Can't grapple or be grappled when blink is involved.
Um! where does blink remove the ability to grapple or give you immunity to grapple? It might be slightly counter intuitive but I don't believe it affects grapple beyond the 20% miss chance on every (non-rider) grapple check.

I believe the general extrapolation is because half the time you are in the ethereal plane--while the Blink spell description doesn't specifically call out an immunity to grappling, it can be interpreted that it confers some sort anti-grappling capability since you can phase through solid matter (intentionally and unintentionally).


dragonhunterq wrote:

Generally rider effects are not further affected by miss chances. I would not force a second roll.

Jeff Morse wrote:
I don't bother because even if said person grabbed another, second later they leave the plane so release the grapple. Can't grapple or be grappled when blink is involved.
Um! where does blink remove the ability to grapple or give you immunity to grapple? It might be slightly counter intuitive but I don't believe it affects grapple beyond the 20% miss chance on every (non-rider) grapple check.

It doesn't give immunity to grappling. If the grappler can affect incorporeal creatures, he can maintain the grapple just fine.


Right, but I'm not asking about what happens if a grappler attempts to grapple someone who is blinking, but rather, what if the grappler themselves is blinking? Does the 20% miss chance that applies to the blinker's attacks, apply twice if the attacker has grapple via grab? My sense is that the answer to this question is debatable, and I'm fine with just going with GM discretion. And, can a blinking attacker grapple at all, which has been raised here by some (not me)? My sense is that they can grapple just fine, even though it seems a bit counterintuitive, because nothing in the Blink spell says they can't.

The Exchange

what scenario is this tactic in?
grab is part of same attack as the to hit, so no additional miss chance needed. i suppose you could grapple and pull them closer before leaving the plane though. soon as blink though you loose the grapple cause be on different plane.
ozy- incorporeal dosnt mean ethereal. it gets confusing because the wording in blink which was copy and pasted from 3.5 does not line up with pathfinders overall rule on incorporeal.
ghost touch and see invisible, wouldnt let you hit someone walking by on the ethereal plane. or grapple them, if using amulet with ghost touch.


On a successful hit the attacker gets a free grapple.
The concept is that contact has been made via a hit and in the same moment of successful impact a grapple is also conducted.
So one hit is needed and via that hit a grapple simultaneously granted.
Its clearly not two swings to hit something. Its only one. So only one miss chance required.

Shadow Lodge

Abraham Z. wrote:
And, can a blinking attacker grapple at all, which has been raised here by some (not me)? My sense is that they can grapple just fine, even though it seems a bit counterintuitive, because nothing in the Blink spell says they can't.

So, here's the rub. Let's say you rule the NPC can grapple a PC. The NPC succeeds and now the PC is grappled. The PC has a one-handed weapon and decides to attack.

Blink wrote:

You “blink” quickly back and forth between the Material Plane and the Ethereal Plane and look as though you’re winking in and out of reality at random. Blink has several effects, as follows.

Physical attacks against you have a 50% miss chance, and the Blind-Fight feat doesn’t help opponents, since you’re ethereal and not merely invisible.

So, the PC rolls badly on his miss chance and misses because the NPC was blinking over to the ethereal plane. So the PC then says, "wait, if I missed, does he lose the grapple?"

Ethereal wrote:

An ethereal creature is invisible, insubstantial, and capable of moving in any direction, even up or down, albeit at half normal speed. An ethereal creature can move through solid objects, including living creatures.

AND

An ethereal creature can’t attack material creatures, and spells you cast while ethereal affect only other ethereal things. Certain material creatures or objects have attacks or effects that work on the Ethereal Plane.

So, the PC has a case in this point. Alternately, what if the next round the NPC attempts to maintain the grapple and blinks during the maintain?

Blink wrote:
Likewise, your own attacks have a 20% miss chance, since you sometimes go ethereal just as you are about to strike.

So, nothing in the rules says you can't grapple, but everything in the description in the spell and the Ethereal special ability would logically mean you lose your grapple as the attacker if you blink at any time (whether defensively or offensively). So, that would prob be the best compromise--the attacker can grapple, but if they are maintaining and blink they automatically lose the grapple.


The blinking happens rapidly, multiple times per round. So, losing the grapple would happen almost immediately, even if the initial grab attempt hit.


On the other hand, the time you spend as ethereal may be too short for the defender to break free.
I can see it would be harder to maintain the grapple, as every time you blink you may lose a bit of grip, but not utterly impossible.


I understand the logic of the various opinions that a blinking attacker would automatically be unable to grapple (or to maintain that grapple), but I don't think there's any support for that RAW, either in the Blink spell, or in the grapple rules. The closest I can see is that the attacker's 20% miss chance, either on the original grapple attempt, or on the attempt to maintain in any future round, captures the possibility that they 'blink out' at the very moment that they are grappling.

In any case, it's super clear that in the scenario in question, it's intended to be possible for a blinking attacker to grapple a foe. In some ways that tactic is at the heart of one encounter. And, fwiw, the scenario was written by one of Paizo's most experienced authors.

If you really have to know what scenario:
7-20 All for Immortality

Given that the author clearly intends for a blinking attacker to be able to grapple, and because in the scenario in question the consequences of this have the potential to be dramatic, it feels important to me to sort out whether the miss chance applies both to the initial attack and to the free grapple that comes from the creature's grab ability. Most of the answers that have addressed this seem to come down on the side of, no, the grapple from grab is a 'rider' effect, so you don't apply the miss chance again. I can see the logic of this - and as a GM it certainly has the chance to make things more exciting (i.e. dangerous) for the players to interpret it this way - but I can also see an argument that the grapple attempt is another attack roll (after all, you still have to roll to get the grapple, even if you hit with the initial attack) and therefore should also be subject to the miss chance. By analogy, if my witch misfortune hexes a bad guy with a grab attack, I'm definitely going to expect the GM to roll twice not only on the initial attack, but also on the follow-up grab.

The main reason I'm posting about this is that I can see the potential for some bad feelings among the players if I don't apply the miss chance to the grab, although in a lot of ways I think the encounter will be more exciting/fun doing it that way.


Grab requires an additional attack roll in the form of a combat maneuver check. Attack rolls are subject to miss chance. Therefore, you roll for miss chance if the grab would otherwise succeed.

You can totally grapple while blinking. Grapple checks are subject to 20% miss chance, including checks to maintain the grapple. If you like, you can think of the miss chance as representing the difficulty of reestablishing your grip after you blink out and back in in the blink of an eye.


I guess the question is thematically "The grappler blinks out, so does the person get away?"

RAW seems to say they only get away if you roll that you miss on the 20% miss chance, but the 20% miss chance represents an average amount of time your not on the material plane.

But in order to maintain the grapple you need constant physical contact (maybe) with the target.

So the question is at least somewhat valid from that context.

RAW, I think you only worry about it on the combat maneuver rolls and the chance is only 20% to miss.

I think thematically, you maybe can't maintain a grapple if in a six second round you spend 1.2 seconds of it not in contact with the enemy.


Claxon wrote:

I guess the question is thematically "The grappler blinks out, so does the person get away?"

RAW seems to say they only get away if you roll that you miss on the 20% miss chance, but the 20% miss chance represents an average amount of time your not on the material plane.

But in order to maintain the grapple you need constant physical contact (maybe) with the target.

So the question is at least somewhat valid from that context.

RAW, I think you only worry about it on the combat maneuver rolls and the chance is only 20% to miss.

I think thematically, you maybe can't maintain a grapple if in a six second round you spend 1.2 seconds of it not in contact with the enemy.

Depends. Are the 1.2 seconds consecutive? You could be blinking out for a tenth of a second every half-second.


blahpers wrote:
Claxon wrote:

I guess the question is thematically "The grappler blinks out, so does the person get away?"

RAW seems to say they only get away if you roll that you miss on the 20% miss chance, but the 20% miss chance represents an average amount of time your not on the material plane.

But in order to maintain the grapple you need constant physical contact (maybe) with the target.

So the question is at least somewhat valid from that context.

RAW, I think you only worry about it on the combat maneuver rolls and the chance is only 20% to miss.

I think thematically, you maybe can't maintain a grapple if in a six second round you spend 1.2 seconds of it not in contact with the enemy.

Depends. Are the 1.2 seconds consecutive? You could be blinking out for a tenth of a second every half-second.

Given that if you get attacked 100 times, every other attack could theoretically miss because of being ethereal, the blinking must be relatively rapid. On the other hand, blink lets you walk though solid material, so it can't be that rapid.


blahpers wrote:
Grab requires an additional attack roll in the form of a combat maneuver check. Attack rolls are subject to miss chance. Therefore, you roll for miss chance if the grab would otherwise succeed.

Combat maneuver checks aren't attack rolls.

Quote:
You can totally grapple while blinking. Grapple checks are subject to 20% miss chance, including checks to maintain the grapple. If you like, you can think of the miss chance as representing the difficulty of reestablishing your grip after you blink out and back in in the blink of an eye.

If you can walk though solid material while blinking, solid material can walk through you while blinking.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

On the contrary, Combat Maneuver Checks are indeed attack rolls.

I will now quote Jiggy from another thread.

Jiggy wrote:
The actual rules for combat maneuvers, straight out of the CRB wrote:

Performing a Combat Maneuver: When performing a combat maneuver, you must use an action appropriate to the maneuver you are attempting to perform. While many combat maneuvers can be performed as part of an attack action, full-attack action, or attack of opportunity (in place of a melee attack), others require a specific action. Unless otherwise noted, performing a combat maneuver provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of the maneuver. If you are hit by the target, you take the damage normally and apply that amount as a penalty to the attack roll to perform the maneuver. If your target is immobilized, unconscious, or otherwise incapacitated, your maneuver automatically succeeds (treat as if you rolled a natural 20 on the attack roll). If your target is stunned, you receive a +4 bonus on your attack roll to perform a combat maneuver against it.

When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver. The DC of this maneuver is your target's Combat Maneuver Defense. Combat maneuvers are attack rolls, so you must roll for concealment and take any other penalties that would normally apply to an attack roll.

(Emphasis added by me [Jiggy].)


_Ozy_ wrote:
blahpers wrote:
Grab requires an additional attack roll in the form of a combat maneuver check. Attack rolls are subject to miss chance. Therefore, you roll for miss chance if the grab would otherwise succeed.
Combat maneuver checks aren't attack rolls.

Yes, they are.

Quote:
You can totally grapple while blinking. Grapple checks are subject to 20% miss chance, including checks to maintain the grapple. If you like, you can think of the miss chance as representing the difficulty of reestablishing your grip after you blink out and back in in the blink of an eye.
If you can walk though solid material while blinking, solid material can walk through you while blinking.

The blink is erratic enough that attempting to walk through solid material may or may not cause splinching.

You're reading more into the rules than is actually there.


_Ozy_ wrote:
blahpers wrote:
Grab requires an additional attack roll in the form of a combat maneuver check. Attack rolls are subject to miss chance. Therefore, you roll for miss chance if the grab would otherwise succeed.

Combat maneuver checks aren't attack rolls.

Quote:
You can totally grapple while blinking. Grapple checks are subject to 20% miss chance, including checks to maintain the grapple. If you like, you can think of the miss chance as representing the difficulty of reestablishing your grip after you blink out and back in in the blink of an eye.
If you can walk though solid material while blinking, solid material can walk through you while blinking.

combat maneuver are attack roll the rule say this

''When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus.''

so yes its an attack roll


blahpers wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:
blahpers wrote:
Grab requires an additional attack roll in the form of a combat maneuver check. Attack rolls are subject to miss chance. Therefore, you roll for miss chance if the grab would otherwise succeed.
Combat maneuver checks aren't attack rolls.

Yes, they are.

Quote:
You can totally grapple while blinking. Grapple checks are subject to 20% miss chance, including checks to maintain the grapple. If you like, you can think of the miss chance as representing the difficulty of reestablishing your grip after you blink out and back in in the blink of an eye.
If you can walk though solid material while blinking, solid material can walk through you while blinking.

The blink is erratic enough that attempting to walk through solid material may or may not cause splinching.

You're reading more into the rules than is actually there.

My bad on the CMB, didn't read far enough.

Yes, blinking does not 'guarantee' that you can walk through solid objects, but a 50% chance per 5' means you have a pretty good shot of phasing through somebody's 6" arm.

Shadow Lodge

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_Ozy_ wrote:
Yes, blinking does not 'guarantee' that you can walk through solid objects, but a 50% chance per 5' means you have a pretty good shot of phasing through somebody's 6" arm.

Say, on the order of 20%, given that the blinking creature is fully aware that it's blinking and can continually reposition its appendages in such a way to keep the creature it's grappled contained?

It's almost as if one could take that into account when making an attack roll to start or maintain a grapple check!


no problem ozy can happen to everybody

i agree with ozy that the grappling victims would have a pretty good chance to get himself out of grappling, i would just say he has 50% chance to remove the grappling condition because of the phase out (same % as an attack roll to miss because of the phase out), if he failed that roll he must do either an escape artist check or a CMB check


As far as I'm concerned, the chunk of rules that SlimGauge has quoted above settles this question. A blinking attacker with grab has to roll their 20% miss chance twice, first on the initial attack, and again on the free grapple attack that they get from having grab.

Thanks to all for your input and lively discussion.


Serum wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:
Yes, blinking does not 'guarantee' that you can walk through solid objects, but a 50% chance per 5' means you have a pretty good shot of phasing through somebody's 6" arm.

Say, on the order of 20%, given that the blinking creature is fully aware that it's blinking and can continually reposition its appendages in such a way to keep the creature it's grappled contained?

It's almost as if one could take that into account when making an attack roll to start or maintain a grapple check!

How does the creature maintain a grapple when the grappled creature has a 50% chance to move 5' away during its turn? And that's if it had to pass through 5' of grappling creature?

Re-positioning appendages doesn't help if the 'grappled' creature moves out of your reach while you are ethereal.


_Ozy_ wrote:
Serum wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:
Yes, blinking does not 'guarantee' that you can walk through solid objects, but a 50% chance per 5' means you have a pretty good shot of phasing through somebody's 6" arm.

Say, on the order of 20%, given that the blinking creature is fully aware that it's blinking and can continually reposition its appendages in such a way to keep the creature it's grappled contained?

It's almost as if one could take that into account when making an attack roll to start or maintain a grapple check!

How does the creature maintain a grapple when the grappled creature has a 50% chance to move 5' away during its turn? And that's if it had to pass through 5' of grappling creature?

It doesn't have that chance--it's grappled--so no worries there. Let the 20% miss chance do its job and it'll pretty much cover the things you're talking about.


blahpers wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:
Serum wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:
Yes, blinking does not 'guarantee' that you can walk through solid objects, but a 50% chance per 5' means you have a pretty good shot of phasing through somebody's 6" arm.

Say, on the order of 20%, given that the blinking creature is fully aware that it's blinking and can continually reposition its appendages in such a way to keep the creature it's grappled contained?

It's almost as if one could take that into account when making an attack roll to start or maintain a grapple check!

How does the creature maintain a grapple when the grappled creature has a 50% chance to move 5' away during its turn? And that's if it had to pass through 5' of grappling creature?
It doesn't have that chance--it's grappled--so no worries there. Let the 20% miss chance do its job and it'll pretty much cover the things you're talking about.

Huh? So, someone who is grappled and attacks the blinking character can miss because the character is ethereal, but is still grappled because...why exactly?


Because the large majority of the time, Someone is restrained, and the windows of opportunity to escape aren't enough--unless the grappler falls afoul of the 20% miss chance during the roll to maintain.

As a GM, feel free to provide a circumstance bonus to Someone's check to escape the graaple if you feel it's warranted--that's exactly what circumstances bonuses are for.


blahpers wrote:

Because the large majority of the time, Someone is restrained, and the windows of opportunity to escape aren't enough--unless the grappler falls afoul of the 20% miss chance during the roll to maintain.

As a GM, feel free to provide a circumstance bonus to Someone's check to escape the graaple if you feel it's warranted--that's exactly what circumstances bonuses are for.

how can he be restrained when you can walk 50% of the time each 5' of solid material, each time you travel 5' of solid material you roll a d% to see if you are still in the ethereal plane, so if you are grappling someone there 50% chance that you are in the ethereal plane and since you are there when you are grappling there's nothing restraining the other person, how can you restrain someone when you can't touch them


Rules: real world logic need not apply.

John Murdock wrote:
blahpers wrote:

Because the large majority of the time, Someone is restrained, and the windows of opportunity to escape aren't enough--unless the grappler falls afoul of the 20% miss chance during the roll to maintain.

As a GM, feel free to provide a circumstance bonus to Someone's check to escape the graaple if you feel it's warranted--that's exactly what circumstances bonuses are for.

how can he be restrained when you can walk 50% of the time each 5' of solid material, each time you travel 5' of solid material you roll a d% to see if you are still in the ethereal plane, so if you are grappling someone there 50% chance that you are in the ethereal plane and since you are there when you are grappling there's nothing restraining the other person, how can you restrain someone when you can't touch them

Because the rules say so. Sometimes the rules aren't always fully logical or even counter-intuitive, but that doesn't stop them from being the rules.


dragonhunterq wrote:


Rules: real world logic need not apply.

John Murdock wrote:
blahpers wrote:

Because the large majority of the time, Someone is restrained, and the windows of opportunity to escape aren't enough--unless the grappler falls afoul of the 20% miss chance during the roll to maintain.

As a GM, feel free to provide a circumstance bonus to Someone's check to escape the graaple if you feel it's warranted--that's exactly what circumstances bonuses are for.

how can he be restrained when you can walk 50% of the time each 5' of solid material, each time you travel 5' of solid material you roll a d% to see if you are still in the ethereal plane, so if you are grappling someone there 50% chance that you are in the ethereal plane and since you are there when you are grappling there's nothing restraining the other person, how can you restrain someone when you can't touch them
Because the rules say so. Sometimes the rules aren't always fully logical or even counter-intuitive, but that doesn't stop them from being the rules.

No, the rules don't actually 'say so'. People think that the rules imply it is not the same thing.

Someone who is ethereal can't interact with the material plane. If a grappler is ethereal, he can't maintain a grapple. When you are blinking, you turn ethereal, therefore you can't maintain a grapple.

That's what the 'rules say', or at least, that's certainly a valid interpretation of the rules.

There is nothing in the rules that allow an ethereal person to maintain a grapple if he's only ethereal 'part of the time'.

The Exchange

another way to look at it, is the person "paralyzed"? No, they get to make reflex saves and have a modified AC. Why, because they are still moving. So, grappler, grabs person and than vanishes to ethereal plane. grappled person moves an inch and so when grabber returns his hand is actually in a solid object and is shunted. there is no way to keep it going. now, others can run it differently at there table and it wont upset me, unless i am the player. maybe this creature has a special ability that allows it to have its claws stay on material while body plane shifts back and forth.


Jeff Morse wrote:
another way to look at it, is the person "paralyzed"? No, they get to make reflex saves and have a modified AC. Why, because they are still moving. So, grappler, grabs person and than vanishes to ethereal plane. grappled person moves an inch and so when grabber returns his hand is actually in a solid object and is shunted. there is no way to keep it going. now, others can run it differently at there table and it wont upset me, unless i am the player. maybe this creature has a special ability that allows it to have its claws stay on material while body plane shifts back and forth.

As a player, if the GM rules that the character is still grappled and you get upset, make your case, then abide.


blahpers wrote:
Jeff Morse wrote:
another way to look at it, is the person "paralyzed"? No, they get to make reflex saves and have a modified AC. Why, because they are still moving. So, grappler, grabs person and than vanishes to ethereal plane. grappled person moves an inch and so when grabber returns his hand is actually in a solid object and is shunted. there is no way to keep it going. now, others can run it differently at there table and it wont upset me, unless i am the player. maybe this creature has a special ability that allows it to have its claws stay on material while body plane shifts back and forth.
As a player, if the GM rules that the character is still grappled and you get upset, make your case, then abide.

Well, that applies to 100% of the rules discussed here.

That said, the purpose of the forum is to try and actually figure out how things work, not restate the obvious point that the GM's word is law, no?

So, if during someone's turn, they can attack their grappler and miss because their grappler is ethereal, then how can they actually be grappled, since someone who is ethereal can't actually grapple someone on the material plane?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Mostly because the blink spell gives rules for attacking targets when ethereal, so since grapple is an attack it falls under those rules. 20% to maintain a grapple, since there is no clause in the rules that I am aware of that requires the grapple be maintained all round long.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Mostly because the blink spell gives rules for attacking targets when ethereal, so since grapple is an attack it falls under those rules. 20% to maintain a grapple, since there is no clause in the rules that I am aware of that requires the grapple be maintained all round long.

Really? So, if someone used a spell to turn a grappler ethereal, they would still maintain their grapple until it's their turn?

That seems a bit far-fetched to me.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

No, unless that spell had similar language to the blink spell.

A blinking character is ethereal, but has 20% miss chance against creatures. This allows them to interact, and has no clause against specific attacks being impossible.


TriOmegaZero wrote:

No, unless that spell had similar language to the blink spell.

A blinking character is ethereal, but has 20% miss chance against creatures. This allows them to interact, and has no clause against specific attacks being impossible.

Huh? The blink spell clearly says that the person becomes ethereal, it has no specific language that overrides the fact that ethereal people can't maintain grapples on creature in the prime material plane.

The fact that blink allows someone to attack with a 20% miss chance has nothing to do with that. If something happens to a grappler that changes their condition: they fall unconscious, they turn ethereal, they get teleported, it absolutely can break or nullify any grapple they might have. Therefore, unless the blink spell specifically has a rule about how an blinking, ethereal person can maintain a grapple, they can't maintain a grapple.


the character is ethereal with blink they go from the material and ethereal plane, and blink say

''your own attacks have a 20% miss chance, since you sometimes go ethereal just as you are about to strike.''

the spell do not say you only have 20% miss chance while ethereal but you have 20% miss chance because during that time you might go ethereal, which are very different in term, so if you go ethereal how can you still maintain the grapple, yes you can initiated the grapple before going ethereal with the 20% miss chance, but then you are ethereal after the attack and the other creature can free themselve since there is no solid person to stop them from moving during that time

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
_Ozy_ wrote:
Huh? The blink spell clearly says that the person becomes ethereal, it has no specific language that overrides the fact that ethereal people can't maintain grapples on creature in the prime material plane.

Show me that rule.


John Murdock wrote:
the character is not ethereal with blink they just go and forth the material and ethereal plane

Lol, what?


_Ozy_ wrote:
John Murdock wrote:
the character is not ethereal with blink they just go and forth the material and ethereal plane
Lol, what?

sorry sometime i write more thing and forgot to erase thing and i should resee what i write before, will edit my statement


TriOmegaZero wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:
Huh? The blink spell clearly says that the person becomes ethereal, it has no specific language that overrides the fact that ethereal people can't maintain grapples on creature in the prime material plane.
Show me that rule.

From the ethereal condition:

Quote:

An ethereal creature can move through solid objects, including living creatures. An ethereal creature can see and hear on the Material Plane, but everything looks gray and ephemeral. Sight and hearing onto the Material Plane are limited to 60 feet.

Force effects and abjurations affect an ethereal creature normally. Their effects extend onto the Ethereal Plane from the Material Plane, but not vice versa. An ethereal creature can’t attack material creatures, and spells you cast while ethereal affect only other ethereal things.

Again, the same thing that would prevent someone who becomes ethereal from maintaining a grapple would prevent a blinking person from maintaining a grapple.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Blink rules are more specific than the ethereal condition (which I am having trouble finding).


TriOmegaZero wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:
Huh? The blink spell clearly says that the person becomes ethereal, it has no specific language that overrides the fact that ethereal people can't maintain grapples on creature in the prime material plane.
Show me that rule.

blink spell say that

''Since you spend about half your time on the Ethereal Plane, you can see and even attack ethereal creatures. You interact with ethereal creatures roughly the same way you interact with material ones.

An ethereal creature is invisible, incorporeal, and capable of moving in any direction, even up or down. As an incorporeal creature, you can move through solid objects, including living creatures.''

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