Starfinder Adventure Path #1: Incident at Absalom Station (Dead Suns 1 of 6)

3.80/5 (based on 23 ratings)
Starfinder Adventure Path #1: Incident at Absalom Station (Dead Suns 1 of 6)
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A Ship Without a Crew

When a brutal gang war breaks out on a docking bay in Absalom Station, the player characters are recruited by the Starfinder Society to investigate the unexpected bloodshed. Delving into the station’s seedy Spike neighborhoods, the heroes confront the gangs and discover that both were paid to start the riot and that the true conflict is between two rival mining companies battling over a new arrival in orbit around the station: a mysteriously deserted ship and the strange asteroid it recovered from the Drift. To head off further violence, the heroes are asked to investigate the ship and discover what happened to its crew, as well as the nature of the asteroid it tows. But what the players find there will set in motion events that could threaten the entirety of the Pact Worlds and change the face of the galaxy forever...

This volume of Starfinder Adventure Path launches the Dead Suns Adventure Path and includes:

  • "Incident at Absalom Station," a Starfinder adventure for 1st-level characters, by Robert G. McCreary.
  • A gazetteer of Absalom Station, by James L. Sutter.
  • Magical relics inspired by the lost planet Golarion, by Owen K.C. Stephens.
  • An archive of new alien creatures, by Jason Keeley and Robert G. McCreary.
  • Statistics and deck plans for a new starship designed just for the player characters, plus details on a new planet in the Codex of Worlds, by Robert G. McCreary.

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-961-5

Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Sanctioned Content

Incident at Absalom Station is sanctioned for use in Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild.
Download the Dead Suns Adventure Path rules and Chronicle sheets — (462 kb zip/PDF)

Note: This product is part of the Starfinder Adventure Path Subscription.

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Amazing adventure for starting a campaign

5/5

My party and I really loved this module, so far, the best in all the campaign!


Decent but generic

3/5


Ring Side Report- RPG Review of Starfinder Adventure Path #1: Incident at Absalo

4/5

Originally posted at Throat Punch Games, a new idea everyday!

Product- Starfinder Adventure Path #1: Incident at Absalom Station (Dead Suns 1 of 6)
System- Starfinder
Producer-Paizo
Price- $23.00
TL; DR-Not the brightest star, but a decent start. 83%

Basics- ARE YOU READY FOR ADVENTURE!? Incident at Absalom Station kicks off the first Starfinder adventure path. Players step off the ship and into gangland warfare as their contact is gun downed within seconds of seeing him. Why? What dark secrets are at play? Who is involved? Also, this book contains a gazatier on Absolom station, several new monsters, and a whole new world for your players to play in.

Mechanics or Crunch-Ah the intro adventure! What can a level 1 nothing do on their first day? Not much, but LOTS OF SKILL CHECKS! Paizo has a history in their adventure paths of having players do lots of checks to get past those first few levels. This adventure is no different. It’s not bad, but once you get past the first fight, its checks. And, if your party doesn’t have the right checks, then its a slog. Past that its balanced and fun. After the checks, there are some simple space fights to get those mechanics out there, an exploration with some progressive fights to get those mechanics out there, and then we’re off to the next adventure book. Overall it’s balanced, but the standard paint by numbers of a new RPG needs to really get players into the system and teach them the rules can be a bit boring. 4.25/5

Theme or Fluff-Repeat after me-PLAYERS HATE FIGHTS WHERE THE ENEMIES SHOULD RUN AWAY. I’m not talking big bads, I’m talking regular grunts above the player’s level. Players want to KILL! This adventure starts with gang war above the players pay grade, and the players want everyone dead. It’s not supposed to happen, but my players are always EVIL, SPITE-FILLED MONSTERS who must kill EVERYONE! If that describes your players, then as written, they will be mad. For check section I mentioned above, the players need to talk to people, and if your party decides Charisma is for suckers, then that is a SUPER slog as my Cha 10 fighter attempts to talk to people as the -1 to -2 modifier other players hope for 20s to even get the middle of the ground information. Past that first fitful start, it’s a fun adventure as players can find the roles they need and better understand what they should do next. This adventure runs like a train-slow, clunky start but then smooth sailing the rest of the way. 4/5

Execution-PDF? Check! Hyperlinked? NOPE! Why not hyperlink this book? It’s 60+ pages! Next, Starfinder isn’t going to get the 64 page world building books that went with the Pathfinder line. That’s ok, but now my players don’t get as much world building as before as unless I print of sections and hand those out, they players either can read the book or spoil the adventure. The items are nice, the monsters are interesting and have great pictures, and the layout is well done. But, no new races! Part of the fun of Starfinder is if you want to be an intelligent mist, then we got stats for that baby! But, I’m not seeing that here. Throw me a new playable race each mod! There are a few other issues as some things just don’t fit well. The water world of Heicoron IV is ok, but there are no mentions of how I can play either of the races that live there. It feels thrown in. It’s not bad, but reference your other books or give me stats, so I can have a whole adventures with the fish people. This is a good but, but it has some flaws that do knock it down a bit 4.25/5

Summary-I’m ready for more, but I have some notes. Overall, I like what’s here. It’s done well, readable, and a good introduction to the mechanics of the system. The story itself has a few issues, but those issues are part of every adventure path’s start. I have more notes on the new execution of the Starfinder line. I want separate books and changes to how they are produced. New races, new tech in the books, and some focus will help improve this line. Will I get that? Most likely not. But, as a GM running a game, I think this is a good way to get your players rolling dice and understanding how to play Starfinder 83%


Good adventure ... if everyone doesn't die

3/5

There is a lot of good content in this adventure, but some major issues. It does a good job of introducing the setting and gives you a chance to uses some of the unique starfinder rules. The major down side is that there is one fight that is so incredibly hard that it almost guaranteed to kill a PC, if not all of them. Additionally, there is some major rail-roading (see spoiler for details).

Spoiler:
The ambassador gives the PCs a robot to record their exploits. The ambassador then broadcasts the robots footage to Absalom Station to make the PCs celebrities. Many of the PCs may not want to be celebrities, but they don’t get a choice. Even if they disabled the robot early on, the adventure says that the ambassador put a hidden tracking device on the PCs. A tracking device that the PCs never get any kind of check see being planted or find later. This would be forgivable if their celebrity status was a major plot point that needed to happen, but despite a little bit of mention in the beginning of book 2, this plot point is quickly dropped and forgotten.


Classically glamorous + mechanically ambitious = good fun!

5/5

This is a classic sci-fi adventure, with a modern twist towards the end, and perfectly crafted. We just started it and I am enjoying preparing it thoroughly as a GM. My players are loving it, will wait to hear their final impressions on it.
Starfinder is looking daaaam good.

P.s.: I've seen a number of low ratings... I don't understand most of them, they seem to have very weird unmet expectations.


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Scarab Sages Developer, Starfinder Team

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Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
Zaister wrote:
KingOfAnything wrote:
@Zaister, it is setting text, not rules text that affirms undead are evil on Golarion.
But where does it actually say that? Maybe we're just inferring that.
I don't know a specific book of the top of my head, but James Jacobs, the creative director of the original setting, has repeatedly confirmed that Undead are always Evil in the universe of Golarion barring few exceptions.

"Barring few exceptions" means undead aren't always evil.

Let's say one in a million undead aren't evil. (Not canon, just an example.) We haven't presented one million undead stat blocks anywhere in Pathfinder, so if there's even a single non-evil undead that ratio is supported.

Eox is a planet of undead. It has entire cities of undead. Let's say it's population is only 1% of Earth's. (Not canon, just an example.) That'd be 74 million undead.

So 74 of them wouldn't be evil. (Not canon, just an example).

And if they have a support club, the PCs might easily run into 20-30 of them all at once.

Or since there could easily be 40 B million earth-like planets in the Starfinder galaxy (Not canon, just an example), if even 1 in 1,000 was full of undead (which is much higher than the Pact Worlds ratio, and given what happens if a wight gets loose may be way low--not canon, just an example), that's be 40 million undead worlds. So if one in a million of those was primarily undead who aren't evil (say, a ghost world where the ghosts did nothing wrong but their sun went out, and they are all tied to the sadness of their world freezing to death), there could be an adventure where all the undead encountered are non-evil.

So even with the same kind of assumptions as Pathfinder, Starfinder can reasonably want to make sure we don't tell people that in our game (a different game, with different rules), not all undead are automatically evil.

...

Though most are.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

Interesting, so what im curious about, is Eox generally viewed as a unpleasant / mostly evil place that the pact worlds tolerate because the benefits of having them in the pact outweighs the general atrocities of the society then? If MOST undead are evil and the planet is mostly undead then isnt it by default then a mostly evil world / society?

Dark Archive

Robert G. McCreary wrote:

Regarding Ambassador Nor:

** spoiler omitted **

All that says to me is that Player's Guide would have been really handy to explain Pathfinder player fundamental flavor differences between Pathfinder and Starfinder :P Pathfinder has hammered in our heads that "undead always evil, weird exceptions are just weird exception, necromancy is illegal everywhere unlike other way stated"

(necromancy being illegal isn't from creative director btw, its from undead slayer's handbook, it has rules for judging how generic settlement would react to it)

Liberty's Edge

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I do think though that there is an important difference in not being able to objectively confirm with a spell that a being is "evil".

It doesn't change what they are, where they draw their power from, what they do, how they think or act, nor perhaps what is thought or written about their ethics by many outside priests and philosophers.

But Pathfinder still operates on an objective evil "PING" test. Cast Spell = PING. "Yup, they are evil. Says so right here. Now we know for sure." You don't have to sort out the moral quandaries anymore. A Ping test tells you whether you are right or wrong in your belief.

Starfinder doesn't have that objective confirmation. Nothing else may have changed, but your certainty of their "evil" is now one of subjective belief, not objective certainty.

That changes nothing; and yet, everything. You can now have debates about it and draw distinctions that suit your purposes, whereas before you could not.


Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
Zaister wrote:
KingOfAnything wrote:
@Zaister, it is setting text, not rules text that affirms undead are evil on Golarion.
But where does it actually say that? Maybe we're just inferring that.
I don't know a specific book of the top of my head, but James Jacobs, the creative director of the original setting, has repeatedly confirmed that Undead are always Evil in the universe of Golarion barring few exceptions.

"Barring few exceptions" means undead aren't always evil.

Let's say one in a million undead aren't evil. (Not canon, just an example.) We haven't presented one million undead stat blocks anywhere in Pathfinder, so if there's even a single non-evil undead that ratio is supported.

Eox is a planet of undead. It has entire cities of undead. Let's say it's population is only 1% of Earth's. (Not canon, just an example.) That'd be 74 million undead.

So 74 of them wouldn't be evil. (Not canon, just an example).

And if they have a support club, the PCs might easily run into 20-30 of them all at once.

Or since there could easily be 40 B million earth-like planets in the Starfinder galaxy (Not canon, just an example), if even 1 in 1,000 was full of undead (which is much higher than the Pact Worlds ratio, and given what happens if a wight gets loose may be way low--not canon, just an example), that's be 40 million undead worlds. So if one in a million of those was primarily undead who aren't evil (say, a ghost world where the ghosts did nothing wrong but their sun went out, and they are all tied to the sadness of their world freezing to death), there could be an adventure where all the undead encountered are non-evil.

So even with the same kind of assumptions as Pathfinder, Starfinder can reasonably want to make sure we don't tell people that in our game (a different game, with different rules), not all undead are automatically evil.

...

Though most are.

74 out of 74,000,000 pretty much means Undead are almost always Evil, that's 0.000001% that aren't Evil. So you can't really say "most" with that low of a number and give the impression that you are going to meet non-Evil Undead every now and then, when meeting one may as well be a miracle.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Look, if Paizo says that undead aren't evil, their customer service number will be swamped by calls from Coalition of Concerned Parents about the fact that walking corpses which were denied the grace of God are not called out as something fundamentally bad and not okay. There's a fine line around a trigger area for many American religious people there. It's the same problem as with nipples and kids in danger, apparently.

Dark Archive

Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
Zaister wrote:
KingOfAnything wrote:
@Zaister, it is setting text, not rules text that affirms undead are evil on Golarion.
But where does it actually say that? Maybe we're just inferring that.
I don't know a specific book of the top of my head, but James Jacobs, the creative director of the original setting, has repeatedly confirmed that Undead are always Evil in the universe of Golarion barring few exceptions.

"Barring few exceptions" means undead aren't always evil.

Let's say one in a million undead aren't evil. (Not canon, just an example.) We haven't presented one million undead stat blocks anywhere in Pathfinder, so if there's even a single non-evil undead that ratio is supported.

Eox is a planet of undead. It has entire cities of undead. Let's say it's population is only 1% of Earth's. (Not canon, just an example.) That'd be 74 million undead.

So 74 of them wouldn't be evil. (Not canon, just an example).

And if they have a support club, the PCs might easily run into 20-30 of them all at once.

Or since there could easily be 40 B million earth-like planets in the Starfinder galaxy (Not canon, just an example), if even 1 in 1,000 was full of undead (which is much higher than the Pact Worlds ratio, and given what happens if a wight gets loose may be way low--not canon, just an example), that's be 40 million undead worlds. So if one in a million of those was primarily undead who aren't evil (say, a ghost world where the ghosts did nothing wrong but their sun went out, and they are all tied to the sadness of their world freezing to death), there could be an adventure where all the undead encountered are non-evil.

So even with the same kind of assumptions as Pathfinder, Starfinder can reasonably want to make sure we don't tell people that in our game (a different game, with different rules), not all undead are automatically evil.

...

Though most are.

74 out of 74,000,000...

And either way, that is weird argument in AP were undead Corpse Fleet is one of two bad guy groups <_< Like, ok, they presence is okay by law, but even in first book all of named eoxian npcs are evil. Like even if you assume that "hey they might not be evil", its kind of irrelevant if they are evil anyway.

Though yeah, as steel_wind said since Starfinder doesn't have detect evil, it does make alignments more interesting since there is no objective way for character to know the alignment :D

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

All this seems to tell me is that a players guide would have been really usefull for this Ap (A lot of people are going to possibly assume a lot of things that are no longer true simply because they have used the same Default setting ((Mostly)) as pathfinder.)


Kevin Mack wrote:
All this seems to tell me is that a players guide would have been really usefull for this Ap (A lot of people are going to possibly assume a lot of things that are no longer true simply because they have used the same Default setting ((Mostly)) as pathfinder.)

Bingo.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Mark Moreland wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:
It's all academic, anyhow. I was just kidding. I figure pizza for the warehouse crew is the simplest method.
Just the warehouse crew? *sad*

I'm happy to bribe anyone.

However, I'm still holding a grudge over this post. :p


Hmm... In absence of any kind of objective measure... I think there's one question that determines whether a given Eoxian is "trustworthy".

"Do you, or have you ever endorsed the use of the Eoxian Super Weapon?"

If they answer that they currently do... You should not associate with them.

If they say they once did, but no longer do, then at the very least, they're pragmatic. You can probably trust them as far as you can throw them, but not much further.

If they didn't endorse it, and don't endorse it... Assuming they're not lying, then they're probably fine, they at least SEEM okay. That said, remain sceptical, and remember to keep quizzing them on it every few levels.

There is... Some room for nuance to this question though. If their answer is along the lines of "only in retaliation", that's fine; mutually assured destruction tends to prevent even the greatest conquerors from deciding war is worth it.

The key is not to imply that's a viable answer though. You know... So its easier to screen "may be lying" from "sounds legit".


Gorbacz wrote:
Look, if Paizo says that undead aren't evil, their customer service number will be swamped by calls from Coalition of Concerned Parents about the fact that walking corpses which were denied the grace of God are not called out as something fundamentally bad and not okay. There's a fine line around a trigger area for many American religious people there. It's the same problem as with nipples and kids in danger, apparently.

Can you be any less condescending?

Most undead are evil because they either feed of other sentient life (vampires) or had to do irrevocable evil acts to become undead (liches).

It has nothing to with American views on undead which as far as I know are no different than those held by Europeans.


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Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I still haven't seen a quote form a printed Pathfinder rules or settings book where it ays that undead must always be evil.


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Getting back to the actual product for a moment: is there a reason Clara-247 doesn't have an XP value listed in her statblock? Note that the question is not "what is her XP value?" – I know what that should be.


Made GM reference threads for the AP.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Companion, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Be sure to edit the body of your posts for the correct part. Some of the later ones said they were the thread for part 1.


Fuuuuuuuuuu!

Thankies for pointing that out.


And fixed!

Hehe, I forgot to go back and put the links in Part 1 XD

Everything should be working now.

Creative Director, Starfinder Team

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Just dropping in to add fuel to this particular fire...

Yes, undead are almost always evil in Pathfinder. James Jacobs is the Creative Director of Pathfinder, and he likes it that way.

Starfinder is a different game, with a different Creative Director. And while I totally respect James's opinion and see where he's coming from, I've always wanted to play more with undead that aren't necessarily evil. So in Starfinder there have been some fundamental shifts to make that more feasible. (Exactly what prompted those shifts in-world hasn't been addressed in print yet, but a lot can happen in thousands of years.)

If you want Eox's undead population to be 100% all-bad, all the time... cool, go for it, there's certainly plenty of support for that. But if you want to play a more ambiguous game where undead Eoxians aren't necessarily evil, that's where I'm interested in heading. I want Eox to be the Cheliax of Starfinder—yeah, folks generally understand that their government is pretty twisted, but they're a big economic power and generally law-abiding, so it's in everybody's interest to play nice. As in the real world, good and evil matters way less to the Pact Worlds legal system than whether you obey the rules and honor your contracts, and the Bone Sages are both smart enough and smooth enough to convince everyone that they can all just get along.

Does Pharasma's church like that? Hell no! But just as you and I aren't allowed to go around being murderous vigilantes every time we object to someone's morality or religion, neither can citizens of the Pact Worlds (at least not when there are witnesses). Does that mean that there are Pharasmin terrorists conducting guerrilla strikes on Eox, publicly condemned by all the Pact Worlds even if some of them quietly approve? I hope so! To me, that's way more interesting.

Again, your mileage may vary, and I encourage you to tweak the setting to your heart's content. But for me, the more moral quandaries and shades of gray we can pack into the game, the better!


Okay, but there is in fact an in-universe reason for why more Undead are able to be Non-Evil though, correct? Cause while Starfinder may be a different game it still takes place in the same universe as Pathfinder.

James Sutter wrote:
But just as you and I aren't allowed to go around being murderous vigilantes every time we object to someone's morality or religion, neither can citizens of the Pact Worlds

It's not about their alignment or religions (which is kinda a bad example since the church of the Devourer are some of the main antagonists for this AP), but that they're monsters most likely actively involved in something Evil.

Sovereign Court

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Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
They're monsters most likely actively involved in something Evil.

What makes them a monster? Existing? Being highly suspicious is not a just cause for murder. You still need evidence of wrongdoing to condemn someone.


KingOfAnything wrote:
Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
They're monsters most likely actively involved in something Evil.
What makes them a monster? Existing? Being highly suspicious is not a just cause for murder. You still need evidence of wrongdoing to condemn someone.

Yep. Undead are indeed monsters.

And I did say "most likely" involved in something actively Evil.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
James Sutter wrote:
So in Starfinder there have been some fundamental shifts to make that more feasible. (Exactly what prompted those shifts in-world hasn't been addressed in print yet, but a lot can happen in thousands of years.)

Well there we have it, something happened in-univers to change the way things work but nobody (except some sneaky devs) knows what. Hopefully that answers some concerns.

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4

This might be a little OT, but the discussion about undeath and necromancy and alignment has me waving my hands.

If I had to come up with a non-canonical, knee-jerk explanation as to why necromancy to create undead isn't inherently evil anymore, I'd go with this:

The void at the heart of the negative energy plane, the essence that birthed nightwalkers and creatures like the oblivion from B6, was destroyed. This may well be reflected in the loss or restructuring of the cosmic fire (Occult Adventures) at the heart of the Positive Energy Plane as well.

Now, of course, if nightwalkers are in Starfinder that goes right out the window. But so far they don't appear to be canonically referenced, so maybe there's something to be said about a "purification" of the Positive and Negative energy planes of moral extremism.

If there's balance in the universe this also means that manasaputra (Bestiary 5) are also gone. This may also be something that happened during the Gap. The destruction of the cosmic fire could backlash through the Akashic Record (Occult Adventures), which might even explain the memory loss of the Gap.

That's my tinfoil hat hand-waving exercise for the day. Enjoy yourselves some Dead Suns :D


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Yeah for Dead Suns!

So glad Jabaxa was able to escape Five Nights At Freddy's.

Paizo Employee Franchise Manager

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Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
Okay, but there is in fact an in-universe reason for why more Undead are able to be Non-Evil though, correct? Cause while Starfinder may be a different game it still takes place in the same universe as Pathfinder.

Sort of. One of the (real-world) reasons the Gap exists is to make the two settings different. There are certainly elements of the Pathfinder campaign setting that serve as inspiration for the Starfinder campaign setting, but they are not the same setting.

Canonically, I think of Starfinder as a space-fantasy reboot of Pathfinder. The core underpinnings of the setting are the same, but there are differences between them. Any changes made in Starfinder don't affect Pathfinder, just like anything we do in Pathfinder may or may not be reflected in Starfinder.

I mean, I love the original Battlestar Galactica, and I don't think I'd really change much about it. But I also love the 2004 reboot, different as it is. An expansion or change to the canon of one doesn't impact the other, but they're both still Battlestar.

Sovereign Court

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I blame Shelyn. In her efforts to redeem just about everything, she granted sentient undead the ability to be non-Evil. Most still are evil, of course. But, she planted the rose.


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KingOfAnything wrote:
I blame Shelyn. In her efforts to redeem just about everything, she granted sentient undead the ability to be non-Evil. Most still are evil, of course. But, she planted the rose.

I am okay with this.


Mark Moreland wrote:
Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
Okay, but there is in fact an in-universe reason for why more Undead are able to be Non-Evil though, correct? Cause while Starfinder may be a different game it still takes place in the same universe as Pathfinder.

Sort of. One of the (real-world) reasons the Gap exists is to make the two settings different. There are certainly elements of the Pathfinder campaign setting that serve as inspiration for the Starfinder campaign setting, but they are not the same setting.

Canonically, I think of Starfinder as a space-fantasy reboot of Pathfinder. The core underpinnings of the setting are the same, but there are differences between them. Any changes made in Starfinder don't affect Pathfinder, just like anything we do in Pathfinder may or may not be reflected in Starfinder.

I mean, I love the original Battlestar Galactica, and I don't think I'd really change much about it. But I also love the 2004 reboot, different as it is. An expansion or change to the canon of one doesn't impact the other, but they're both still Battlestar.

So Starfinder isn't an alternate future to Pathfinder, it's an alternate future to an alternate Pathfinder?

Paizo Employee Franchise Manager

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Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
So Starfinder isn't an alternate future to Pathfinder, it's an alternate future to an alternate Pathfinder?

If that helps you grok that they're different games with different continuity, then sure.


Mark Moreland wrote:
Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
So Starfinder isn't an alternate future to Pathfinder, it's an alternate future to an alternate Pathfinder?
If that helps you grok that they're different games with different continuity, then sure.

>_>


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I love it all!

I don't anticipate any problems with the Elebrians as aliens be weird.

Thank you for the ships and codex of worlds especially.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Companion, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
Mark Moreland wrote:
Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
So Starfinder isn't an alternate future to Pathfinder, it's an alternate future to an alternate Pathfinder?
If that helps you grok that they're different games with different continuity, then sure.
>_>

It's a fuzzy line. We just have to learn to be happy with the fuzziness. I assume you are a practiced snuggler?


KingOfAnything wrote:
Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
Mark Moreland wrote:
Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
So Starfinder isn't an alternate future to Pathfinder, it's an alternate future to an alternate Pathfinder?
If that helps you grok that they're different games with different continuity, then sure.
>_>
It's a fuzzy line. We just have to learn to be happy with the fuzziness. I assume you are a practiced snuggler?

Yes I am, but that's beside the point.

Paizo Employee Franchise Manager

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BTW, I wasn't trying to be snarky, but I can see how my last post could come across that way. At first, I really struggled with meshing the two games' continuities in my own head, and I'm the in-house continuity wonk. Eventually, I was able to get over small (and some larger) differences between the two by recognizing that they're different games. There's Pathfinder continuity and Starfinder continuity, and while some elements are the same in both, they're a Venn diagram, not a continuum.

Liberty's Edge

Mark Moreland wrote:
BTW, I wasn't trying to be snarky, but I can see how my last post could come across that way. At first, I really struggled with meshing the two games' continuities in my own head, and I'm the in-house continuity wonk. Eventually, I was able to get over small (and some larger) differences between the two by recognizing that they're different games. There's Pathfinder continuity and Starfinder continuity, and while some elements are the same in both, they're a Venn diagram, not a continuum.

I always saw Starfinder as a parallel universe, but maybe I'm too much into comics.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Wait. Franchise Manager. Since when was that a thing?
Congratulations! :)


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Paladinosaur wrote:
Mark Moreland wrote:
BTW, I wasn't trying to be snarky, but I can see how my last post could come across that way. At first, I really struggled with meshing the two games' continuities in my own head, and I'm the in-house continuity wonk. Eventually, I was able to get over small (and some larger) differences between the two by recognizing that they're different games. There's Pathfinder continuity and Starfinder continuity, and while some elements are the same in both, they're a Venn diagram, not a continuum.

I always saw Starfinder as a parallel universe, but maybe I'm too much into comics.

I believe the technical term is "Elseworlds."

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
James Sutter wrote:
Starfinder is a different game, with a different Creative Director. And while I totally respect James's opinion and see where he's coming from, I've always wanted to play more with undead that aren't necessarily evil. So in Starfinder there have been some fundamental shifts to make that more feasible. (Exactly what prompted those shifts in-world hasn't been addressed in print yet, but a lot can happen in thousands of years.)

LIES! If there were a different Creative Director, there would be more Grippli (possibly with a name change like the ratfolk got) wouldn't there be! I contend that you are actually James Jacobs in disguise!

Paizo Employee Franchise Manager

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Steve Geddes wrote:

Wait. Franchise Manager. Since when was that a thing?

Congratulations! :)

¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:

Okay, but there is in fact an in-universe reason for why more Undead are able to be Non-Evil though, correct? Cause while Starfinder may be a different game it still takes place in the same universe as Pathfinder.

James Sutter wrote:
But just as you and I aren't allowed to go around being murderous vigilantes every time we object to someone's morality or religion, neither can citizens of the Pact Worlds
It's not about their alignment or religions (which is kinda a bad example since the church of the Devourer are some of the main antagonists for this AP), but that they're monsters most likely actively involved in something Evil.

This suddenly reminds me of how a certain D&D verse handled why evil wasn't purged in an inquisition: basically, being evil doesn't mean it has to be actively harmful, it just has to prioritize you and yours over everyone else.

Said verse gave an example not unlike that of a loan shark, sure they'll call the guards to arrest you if you fail payments, and quite frequently they'll jack up the payments whenever they can, but they're performing a legit business, and aren't doing anything wrong... But yeah, they're evil.

Another example, is that Lex Luthor is "a monster"; but in most incarnations he's typically spending most of his time pondering what's best for Earth, mostly because of the simple fact he lives there. He's supportive of heroes at times, and antagonistic at others.

One example of his behaviour in one cartoon is that he kidnaped a guy, cut off his arm, and cloned him for a spy; but when the original came looking for him, wanting revenge for the losing an arm part, he handed the guy a briefcase containing a high tech military grade prosthesis with inbuilt weapons, by every measure even BETTER than the arm he had. His next statement is priceless.

Lex Luthor wrote:
What do you really want? Revenge? Or Satisfaction?

In that way I find Lex Luthor probably one of the most relatable villains ever; partly because I have a brother who's similar in a way, and just as pragmatic.


Robert G. McCreary wrote:

Regarding Ambassador Nor:

** spoiler omitted **

Playable undead when?


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Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
It's not about their alignment or religions (which is kinda a bad example since the church of the Devourer are some of the main antagonists for this AP), but that they're monsters most likely actively involved in something Evil.

Shooting someone, because they most likely are involved in something evil, is never a good reason not even in Pathfinder with a more black and white look. Whats coming next, he looked evil?


lowfyr01 wrote:
Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
It's not about their alignment or religions (which is kinda a bad example since the church of the Devourer are some of the main antagonists for this AP), but that they're monsters most likely actively involved in something Evil.
Shooting someone, because they most likely are involved in something evil, is never a good reason not even in Pathfinder with a more black and white look. Whats coming next, he looked evil?

Uh, yeah it is. There's several parts of APs where you are retaliating/preemptively going after Evil groups. This is the whole point of book 2 of Rise of the Runelords, going after the Skinsaw Cult.


Mark Moreland wrote:
BTW, I wasn't trying to be snarky, but I can see how my last post could come across that way. At first, I really struggled with meshing the two games' continuities in my own head, and I'm the in-house continuity wonk. Eventually, I was able to get over small (and some larger) differences between the two by recognizing that they're different games. There's Pathfinder continuity and Starfinder continuity, and while some elements are the same in both, they're a Venn diagram, not a continuum.

Okay, so alternate future to alternate past.

That has so many implications...


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Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
Uh, yeah it is. There's several parts of APs where you are retaliating/preemptively going after Evil groups. This is the whole point of book 2 of Rise of the Runelords, going after the Skinsaw Cult.

The Skinsaw Cult is a bad example for "most likely doing something evil", because you know they do bad stuff. Your example would be more like "met an undead today on the street, destroyed him, because he is most likley planning evil stuff"


lowfyr01 wrote:
Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
Uh, yeah it is. There's several parts of APs where you are retaliating/preemptively going after Evil groups. This is the whole point of book 2 of Rise of the Runelords, going after the Skinsaw Cult.
The Skinsaw Cult is a bad example for "most likely doing something evil", because you know they do bad stuff. Your example would be more like "met an undead today on the street, destroyed him, because he is most likley planning evil stuff"

Well until we get some examples or write ups of Undead not doing that, its a very safe bet.

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Pawns, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
Well until we get some examples or write ups of Undead not doing that, its a very safe bet.

Safe bets don't hold up well in a court of law.

This "problem," such as it is, isn't unique to Starfinder. Ever have a paladin go to Geb?

The problem here is that "it's evil, I smite it," is the easy way out. It doesn't take any thought. But Good isn't about taking the easy path. It's about taking the hard one. You can fiercely oppose the efforts of a law-abiding evil... but if you want to keep your paladin-hood, you have to do so lawfully yourself. (Or get proof that they aren't actually law-abiding. That works too.) Just smiting them for existing, though, is an effective way to fall. Not necessarily by committing an evil act, but by having your alignment shift to NG or even CG.


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The timeline of the setting is important for judging the undead Eoxians.

41 AG: Absalom Pact is signed. At this point, the Eoxians become allied with all other races in their solar system.

291 AG: The Swarm attack both the Pact Worlds and the Veskarium. The Vesk (hostile since 36 AG) become allied with the Pact Worlds.

317 AG: Present day.

So the Eoxians have been reliable allies of the non-evil Pact Worlds races for over two (nearly three) centuries, while the Vesk have been allies for only a quarter century or so -- but nobody is talking about attacking Vesk on sight, even though there are probably more people in setting who are willing to do that than there are people who would smite Eoxians on sight.

As a point of comparison, I cannot think of any real world nations who have been allies for as long as the Eoxians and the other Pact Worlds planets have been.


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Shisumo wrote:
Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
Well until we get some examples or write ups of Undead not doing that, its a very safe bet.

Safe bets don't hold up well in a court of law.

This "problem," such as it is, isn't unique to Starfinder. Ever have a paladin go to Geb?

The problem here is that "it's evil, I smite it," is the easy way out. It doesn't take any thought. But Good isn't about taking the easy path. It's about taking the hard one. You can fiercely oppose the efforts of a law-abiding evil... but if you want to keep your paladin-hood, you have to do so lawfully yourself. (Or get proof that they aren't actually law-abiding. That works too.) Just smiting them for existing, though, is an effective way to fall. Not necessarily by committing an evil act, but by having your alignment shift to NG or even CG.

I haven't mentioned anything about Paladins, or Good for that matter.

I don't have a problem with Eoxians cause they're Evil, I have a problem with them cause they're Monsters.

And you don't have to abide an Evil nation's laws to stay a Paladin, there's multiple mentions in lore of Paladin strike teams going to Geb to slay Undead. A Paladin would not fall for slaying an Undead in Geb just because it happens to be illegal in Geb. A Paladin follows legitimate authority, not whatever authority or laws of the land they find themselves in.

Deads Suns spoiler:
Aside from the Ambassador (who may be implicit in what's happening and revealed later) who hires you in this Adventure and his servants, all the Undead in Incident at Absalom Station are trying to kill your characters. So yeah, pretty safe bet.

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