6th level for him then. Or maybe he has a higher dex than usual for fighters in that setting.
Yeah, I know that there is not a 1-to-1 correspondence between fantasy characters from fiction and characters from the game. But it seems to me that there are better explanations than to say they all have the physical str of a powerlifter without actually having it.
Based on Amiri's look she should be build as a medium str character with a focus on other abilities that compensates for the lack of top-notch strength. In PF1 that would have been invulnerable rager (to survive the lack of armor protection), and a bunch of the supernatural rage powers. No clue what's the equivalent in PF2.
Ned Stark was another fighter who didn't look super strong, but if stattd out would just need a top Str, just to be decently optimized
Eh, I can't speak from the 2e point of view,but do he? Is the difference from 16 to 18 that much in terms of to hit and damage? It wasn't the case in PF1. Moreover, (at least from a PF1 perspective) If they are fighters and they don't want to be some babbling morons, then they would not have the point buy for 18 str in a low fantasy game.
Moreover, the Iconics are not meant to be optimized (correct me if that policy is intended to be changed in 2e).
So, 14 or 16 str would be just fine for a good game of thrones fighter.
Kevin Mack wrote:
In golarion showing more skin is for safety, everyone knows your enemies are less prone to attack you where you have exposed skin, just look at Amiri.
It is true that the most important thing is rule of cool** (though consistency is also important), It's just that It would have been way cooler for me (and others, apparently) if the inspiration for Amiri's anatomy were actual strong women.
**And not some dark reasons that some posters wanted to ascribe to people that don't like the picture.
I do think without gym machines you're not gonna look like a body builder, but I'm no expert, so feel free to correct me.
Steroids make it possible that people can grind rep after rep of isolation exercises and grow. But (steroids or not) you only need free weight (Like barbell and dumbells) to develop strength and size.
I'm not talking about Mr Olympia here. I would have been happier with the torso of megsquat or the like (aka, not the biggest or strongest girl around)
So don't expect mad abs on Amiri is what I'm saying
Sure. While shredded abs are cool, they are not a sign of strength. Strongest people around tend to have some (or a lot) fat, because bodyweight matters.
I find her midriff looks already muscular as is. It's the midriff of a strong person, in other words. That's my opinion. Maybe I'm wrong, to reiterate, but that's the impression she gives me.
If we are talking about the raw str of carrying, pushing and pulling things around, then it is not. Not trying to be conflictive or anything, I know it is your opinion (and in the end the only thing that matters is if people like the picture), but it is not an informed opinion.
As for the trapezius or the other back muscles, we just can't see them. She's facing us and wearing quite a bit of armor. We can see only the bulk of her limbs (admittedly not huge) and, again, her midriff - most everything else is covered.
We can see her torso thanks to the silly armor design, and from it can be seen that she doesn't have the width and thickness of a strong person.
100% accuracy is not the claim. It is more a rough, but a good enough estimate of her physical capabilities based on the image.
Leg presses and pull downs? There is no need of gym machinery to have muscle. In fact most comercial gyms provide just an illusion for people who wants thing easy.
Have you seen crossfit?, I'm not a fan of it but it does have a lot of running, climbing and sometimes, swimming. Have you seen the upperback of a climber. They are well developed. Amiri doesn't have the latissimus dorsi to climb carrying the wights she supposedly carries.
The Trapezius doesn't lie. Carrying heavy things in your hads will give you beig trapezius. Amiri don't have it.
She have the torso of a person that is not strong, certainly not 18 str.
Finally, bodyweight do matter. That's why th strongest people are big and not lean. And body weight would matter more if your figthing style is swinging a heavy sword.
People like what they like in fantasy, so whatever. But the justification you provide just don't work.
And they are divided in categories for a reason.
Yeah, most Real world fighters don't have bulging muscles, they aren't str 18 either.
Real world biological differences between men and women don't need to be argued or taken into consideration.
I, personally, as someone who lift weights just would have preferred that the art of fantasy strong woman would have been modeled after real world strong women. It would have been cooler, for me, that's it.
Yes, and they can be drawn as fragile/weak physiques if the artist so desires. Some people would like that, others wouldn't. Just ast with Amiri art here.
Cole Deschain wrote:
from a PF1 point of view, a well trained str 12 or 14 would look very strong to regular people.
Consider that Str 18 is almost at the top of human capabilities for low level people, aka every person on earth. Thus, we are talking about heavyweight here.
If you are arguing from a semi-realistic point of view, then people doesn't get that strong without looking strong, that's for sure. And the picture doesn't match the criteria to me.
Now, Amiri is a fantasy character so she can be as skinny as she like and still be strong as hell.
People idea of d&d fantasy vary, not to mention their artistic preferences. That's why some people like the picture and others don't.
To everyone who has an issue with her appearance here, what do you think ofthe other picture of her, the one of her fighting the giant?
IN that picture she seems to have a bigger upper-back, which is nice, but having so much uncovered flesh is not good for survivability. I don't know what kind of opinion are you looking for, I find that picture of her to be not bad but not great either.
If she had other combat style, maybe. But strength doesn't come without muscle. Her chest and back shows a lack of upperbody strength. We can't clearly see her shoulders and arms, but they probably are not up to the task either.
Now, this is fantasy, and different people have their different tastes. Some like little lolis being able to lift a truck in their animes, but it shouldn't be difficult to understand why some people don't fall in love with her bodytype does not match what she is supposedly able to do.
Cole Deschain wrote:
So, a 18 str character can deadlift 600 pounds. This is World champion Stefi Cohen and She can't deadlift that weight.
That's a strange conclusion. While her countenance does look Feral, her body doesn't look able to do that killing.
I don't want to sound conflictive, because that's totally not my intention, but I don't think you are correct.
Looking at the green dragon I find
"Green dragons dwell in the ancient forests of the world, prowling under towering canopies in search of prey. Of all the chromatic dragons, green dragons are perhaps the easiest to deal with diplomatically"
One problem the old bestiary had was that monster with large statistics tend to suffer in the "description" department. A lot of dragons are a bunch of numbers, a nice pic and a sentence of description. I hope that doesn't happen too often in PF2. Looking at an old d&d 2e bestiary, monster had a lot of descriptive text, and that was quite cool.