Fiendish Marsh Giant

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Goblin Squad Member. RPG Superstar 6 Season Star Voter, 7 Season Marathon Voter, 8 Season Marathon Voter, 9 Season Star Voter. Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber. Organized Play Member. 3,180 posts (3,186 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. 1 wishlist. 1 alias.


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Ha! I think it would be great to have (or be) a GM who approves the Accidental Clone trait for the entire party! That is a fun one.


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My rule of thumb: if you have to parse the language so much that you're forced into defending your preferred interpretation against a sizable opposition of opinion that you yourself solicited, then your preferred interpretation is probably not the intended one.

So don't do it.


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Definitely NOT a certain Kobold wrote:
No! KOBOLDS AS CORE RACE!

Pfah. Why have lousy kobolds when you could have precocious, fun GREMLINS?


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MMCJawa wrote:
I would guess they are leaving it open so that other villains may make use of them someday, even if not PC.

Maybe. I'd think you'd have the same problem if it is an NPC only ritual, though.

The only NPC scenario I could foresee this actually being used in is if there is a final encounter where the PCs stumble into the final stages of the ritual and have a chance to affect the summoning roll so that it turns into a critical fail and now the "Big Bad" has two enemies to worry about (PCs and demon/devil who didn't want to be summoned).

That seems like a really, really isolated possibility, and it seems easier to just adjudicate a possible scenario like that in text/encounter building, rather than leaving it up to a random roll, though.

Quote:
Or perhaps at some point when they do a villain book there will be some high level PC options that allow their use.

This seems more likely; that they think at some point they might open it up to PCs, but even if so, it seems they might be better served by leaving the rituals for such a supplement, and free up some space in the Bestiary for other goodies.


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I keep scratching my head at the purpose of the Abyssal/Infernal Pact rituals from the playtest bestiary. I understand that these are present to detail how demons and devils in PF2E summon allies, and to illustrate how their summoning in 2E is different from 1E, but I don't quite understand why they are presented as rituals, rather than just as a special ability or even just as a textual description.

As they currently stand, they can only be used by NPCs ("must be demon/devil" respectively), which means that the mechanics involved- the critical success to critical failure spectrum- will never see use in-game. (Unless the GM feels like playing dice-rolling games by himself to throw some randomness into his own encounter building process for some reason.)

Am I missing something? Is there some reason the rituals might actually be useful in-game that I just can't conceive of?


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carborundum wrote:
I like the idea of the Pact - the DM can choose the allies from a much broader list than the two or three specified in previous editions. This can be nicely tailored to terrain/ mission/ general tricksiness.

That part I'm fine with- expanding the range of possible demon allies. But I don't see where Abyssal Pact needs to be statted out as a ritual to do so. Either just say they have an ability where they can possibly have other demonic allies, or (better yet) just note it in the text, and say that the GM should select the type of demons based on the encounter's Difficulty Level.

Quote:
Suggestion: Just add a line to the Abyssal/ Infernal pacts that allows the summoning of the contracted allies as an activity taking two or three actions. That's what I'm doing :D

That's really what I'd prefer. It gives the flavor of prior editions to demons, and lends some degree of utility to Abyssal Pact.


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carborundum wrote:
I'd like them to be able to summon in combat again though.

The more I reflect on this, the more odd it seems to me to have been changed the way it is.

I think I can see the rationale for removing the in-combat summoning, if the intent is presumably to remove randomness and keep encounter challenge levels flat.

However, it then seems weird to include it as not only an out of encounter event, but one that includes a random chance of going awry. It almost comes across as a mini-game for the GM to play solo before an encounter with PCs. ("The PCs are going to be reaching the demon's lair today, so I'll roll to see if he is able to successfully summon allies that will make the encounter more difficult. Oh- he critically failed, now the PCs will find him in the midst of/victim of a demonic attack!")

It just feels unnecessary, now. Again, if the intent is to make challenges flat, then the addition or lack of other demons should be considered in the encounter design process (by setting the challenge level and xp and selecting the monsters accordingly), and not bothering with the Abyssal Pact ritual at all.

If there still is some intent on keeping a degree of randomness, on the other hand, Abyssal Pact should be able to be used in combat.

Otherwise, Abyssal Pact seems rather extraneous (unless it will eventually be opened up to PC usage through a feat or some means of emulating being a demon?).


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Jason Bulmahn wrote:
But seriously... kudos for getting my last name right. It's a rarity.

And here I was thinking that it was just Uncommon.


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James Jacobs wrote:
Thanks for pointing this one out, as it's a good example of hyperbolic rules text that might make sense for a PC to deal with but implies a lot more fundamental on a mass scale about a setting that uses the rules to simulate reality.

On the other hand, think of the campaign potential. Pathfinder Adventure Path: "The Forsaken Army- a mysterious leader has rallied the masses of ignominiously rejected laborers across several nations into a powerful legion with one goal in mind: revenge!!!"


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Sir Richard Francis Burton spoke something like two dozen languages. Many Europeans are multilingual.

I am definitely not a fan of the change to languages in 2E. I am not really sure what the rationale behind it was (simplification, presumably). It certainly feels a bit overtuned with the changes to bonus languages, in addition to the rarity levels on languages and language related spells (like Tongues). If the intent is just to have everyone speaking Common and ignore complications of language, then just toss them out entirely.


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Storm Dragon wrote:
Upping the "Bonus Languages" Int threshold from 12 to 14 is an odd and unwelcome move. Communication is unlikely to be an issue in most games, with most creatures speaking Common (or whatever passes for it in your region).

I have to agree with this point. I must admit that I'm terribly baffled by the limitations now with Bonus Languages (must have Int 14, and only get to select 1 additional language), particularly in light of the additions of Rarity levels to language as well as to some language spells (notably Tongues).

Granted, in my campaigns I tend to use a lot of regional languages and dialects for reasons of verisimilitude (and for my own amateur linguist quirks), but all of these changes together present an even greater communication hurdle, particularly for traveling campaigns. I don't know that I see the gain from the changes collectively, albeit I could see some mileage out of them individually.


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I really don't care for the "one crafting feat = craft anything you want" idea; it just breaks verisimilitude for me. Not to mention that it doesn't really work with standard fantasy tropes (he was a poor blacksmith who became legendary for his crafted armor.. oh, and he could also build ships and castles, and cobble together a mean pair of shoes in his spare time; somehow doesn't have the same ring to it.)

I think I understand the rationale for it (streamline it), but the end result loses out as a result IMO.

Performance suffers from the same issue, IMO.


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I'd agree that Lore probably needs a bit more clarification. Based on the fact that one of its Trained usages is to allow for the conduct of tradecraft (and, subsequently, the ability to provide for oneself economically), Lore would seem to be actually a very specialized form of trained knowledge/ability. However, the current presentation of it lends it too easily to be dismissed as trivia.


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MerlinCross wrote:
5) Bitterness. Okay yes this one is personal. I have said that one of the ways I curb CLW spam is limiting the ability to find them. I basically just moved them to Uncommon. This seems to be however a bad move on my part from some of the responses I saw over some of the topics. So everyone's cheering for something I did and got flak for. K.

This is actually (perhaps unintentionally) an interesting point. Not the bitterness, but the reference to the issue of CLW spamming.

From discussion in the Resonance blog post thread (as well as items and others), it was made clear that one of the reasons behind Resonance was as a stopgap to help ease the issue of CLW spam/healing and similar "abuses" of PF1.

However, with the introduction of this new Commonality/Rarity mechanic, wouldn't that serve just as well as Resonance, without adding yet another resource pool to keep track of? Simply rank certain types of items with different levels of rarity to prevent unlimited purchases.


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BryonD wrote:
Whatever. It is a good way to manage "things". But it is a DM tool and not a mechanic. I think making it official is just kinda weird.

Agreed. If the presentation of this is as an "optional" ranking system or something for the benefit of DMs who might find it a streamlined way of setting up some guidelines for their campaigns, that's one thing. But the blog makes it sound as if in PF2 this is going to be a mechanic (or for those who don't seem to like that term being applied to it, another TRAIT to be applied to weapons, armor, items, spells, and other things), then it seems like overreach to me in a revision that had as one of its goals rules simplification.


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Mark Seifter wrote:

\Aroden's Victory

Requirement: You must be Aroden to cast this spell
Effect: You win.

This just in:

Mark revealed the secret of what really happened to Aroden!


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I like this in theory, but I can"t help but feel the concept would be more fitting in a campaign guide or accessory, rather than adding another layer of complexity to the baseline "core" rules.


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The Armageddon Orb is useful as an example of a high level trap in this blog to showcase the mechanics, but as an actual item in the 2E core rulebook? I'm not so sure.

It seems way to niche (not to mention destructive) to be bandied about as seemingly commonplace high level trap that could be encountered. Something like this should be used maybe once in an entire campaign, and then only as deadly Macguffin that ups the stakes against the final campaign BBEG. As such, I'd prefer something like that relegated to the last encounter/chapter of the final story in an AP, and save the page space in the core rulebook with something more utilitarian.


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graystone wrote:
I'm getting this impression too: it seems like they are trying to cover the hybrids in the base classes options.

It looks very much like it. The barbarian preview had some things that felt like bloodrager-like abilities; ditto the monk and brawler; and the ranger has some slayer and hunter-like qualities. Mark's comment earlier made it sound like- even if not necessarily a conscious design choice- a hunter-like character could already be built with the playtest version of the ranger.


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Cuttlefist wrote:
One thing I absolutely do not understand is the complaint that it is narratively inconsistent with the previous edition... As far as the setting is concerned this could always have been the norm but it just never came up.

I believe that the complaint comes from that concern about the setting more than the mechanics. If the campaign setting were changing with the new edition, then it probably wouldn't be as big an issue. Since it is not (still Golarion), I don't see anything unreasonable in people finding some disappointment that the mechanics don't fit what they have come to expect in the game world.

Saying "it never came up" in a world where many of the players are or adventured with spellcasters who should probably have been familiar with this concept, seems like a stretch.


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Shadrayl of the Mountain wrote:
Except 9 L= 0 Bulk. So the tracking only matters if you reach full #s. a series of check boxes on a character sheet should handle it quite well

DM: "What's your bulk?"

Player: "Hang on. 5 plus... 6, no 7 L. So 5."

vs.

Player: "Hang on. 5.7. So, 5."

I'm not seeing a substantive difference other than the latter seems quicker and more natural (adding numbers directly rather than adding numbers and counting up letters to add to them.) YMMV.


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Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:
I think they mentioned in one of the live streams that, like in Starfinder, L stands for Light bulk, and equals 0.1 Bulk (so 10 L items add up to 1 Bulk)

Isn't it more intuitive, then, to make L = .1 instead? So that way you are just adding numbers to get your numeric Bulk rating, instead of adding numbers and letters together.


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I know someone else brought it up in another thread (the Trinkets one, I believe), but I'm really curious to know how Cursed items are going to work with the Resonance concept. Are they going to force people to expand RP (I still don't like that abbreviation)? That would be an interesting way of portraying their curse, in addition to whatever negative effects otherwise attend them.


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technarken wrote:
Is there a way of determining how much resonance I have? How about somebody else? Will this allow for "power level" detection?

I think only Jedi can determine a character's Resonance count.


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QuidEst wrote:
(On the matter of the cloak, looking back at it after seeing this, I'd expect some people to try getting out of the operate activation action when the hood is already up for the stealth bonus.)

Which is a good argument for not specifying that you need to "raise the hood" in order to activate any of its properties, just indicate that it takes an action (unspecified) to make it do the things it does. (ie, you can use one action to grant a bonus to Stealth checks. You can also use an action to grant yourself invisibility.)


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Like with the Resonance post, I think there is still some unnecessary level of detail to these items. To wit:

Quote:
... you can whisper the command word to become invisible...
Quote:
... you can use the breath weapon by spending 1 RP and 2 Operate Activation actions (one to inhale the necessary air and the other to breathe out)

Why is it necessary to whisper the command word (I can't shout it like a barbaric yawp across the rooftops of the world and have it work?) Shouldn't it be enough to state that it takes to Operate actions and 1 RP to use the breath weapon? Is it vitally important that the nature of those actions (inhale, exhale) be spelled out explicitly?

I can't help but feel as if some of these details are being deliberately targeted towards Society play in their efforts to mitigate player vs. DM nitpicking. It feels like overreaching and won't really serve to stave off players who are truly invested in looking for "cheat codes" to do more than the rules allow.


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Gregg Reece wrote:
Doodpants wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:

So if wands are "multi-use consumables" is there a wand-analogue for trinkets? i.e. scrolls : wands :: trinkets : ????

[trinket]-on-the-cob.
Tchotchke - Random little trinket you can't seem to get rid of.

Haha! This totally reminded me of Office Space. Maybe we can change the name of Trinkets to 'Flair'?

"Valeros, we need to talk about your flair."

"But Ezren, I'm wearing the 15 piece minimum."

"That's okay, if you just want to do the minimum. Look at Alain, though, he's wearing 37 pieces."


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Cyouni wrote:
Cthulhudrew wrote:
Just saying what kind of action it requires should be sufficient, IMO, and leave the creative license to players and DMs to figure out.
I presume so that it can be actually identified in-game through checks and such. That way before the enemy wizard hits you with a fireball from a staff, you can identify it and go "oh, that's a staff of fireballs". Theoretically, you could prevent some activations if you identify it and go "flip the hood off", forcing an enemy to use another action to put it on again.

If that is the reasoning behind it, then I would think there would be consistency with all magic items at that level of detail. As things stand currently with the magic items in this blog, the only one that details specific, descriptive actions needed to activate the item is the Cloak of Elvenkind. The other items just indicate that they need to be activated.

Narrative prose can be useful and interesting in the right context, but I think that for a lot of things in the game (such as magic items and equipment) less is more.


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Oh, wow. That picture is so awesome! I am going to have to go look for more of Setiawan Lie's artwork now. That is just frighteningly beautiful!


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OCEANSHIELDWOLPF 2.0 wrote:
The activations seem needlessly specific (hood raising etc).

I agree with this. Including descriptions of items for the benefit of ease is one thing (personally, I don't see why all staves of healing would look identical, but it is narrative shorthand).

Going into exhaustive detail about exactly how to "activate" something seems excessive. (Why can't I wrap the cloak around me? Trace some runes on the hem with my finger? Rub the cloth against my forehead?) Just saying what kind of action it requires should be sufficient, IMO, and leave the creative license to players and DMs to figure out.


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Hello-

I would like to cancel my Starfinder subscription (only- I would like to continue to have my Pathfinder subscription). I will be playing as a player in the future (literally and figuratively, I guess) and so do not wish to be spoiled.

Thank you!


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Scribbling Rambler wrote:
One quibble, Sea Legs would be a better name for the mechanic covered under Pirate Dedication. The original term refers to getting used to the rolling of the deck.

I see your quibble and find I am in full agreement with it. The term has been pirated out of context here.


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Krune looks rather dapper, there. I wouldn't have thought the Runelord of Sloth would put that much effort into his appearance. :D


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Is anyone else wondering if other/all classes will get a choice of deciding what their key ability is? I don't recall it being mentioned in any of the other class blogs, and while I like the concept here for the Monk (particularly if it means there may later be other key ability options), I would find it kind of odd for one class to have that as a feature and not something proliferated across other classes.

IE, is there a good argument to be made as to why the Monk would warrant this kind of design consideration, as opposed to other classes?


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One other thing that stands out to me about this preview is that it suggests that some of the hybrid classes of 1E (notably arcanist, bloodrager, and brawler) might be being somewhat "combined" with base classes in 2E if only by way of different class ability/feat choices taken, and thus might not eventually get their own standalone classes.


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A lot of interesting stuff to unpack here, but my first thought is: I wonder if we'll eventually see Con or Int based Monks? (Fakir-like ascetics for the former, and Karnak of the Inhumans style monks for the latter). That would be really cool!


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Rysky wrote:
They’re the same Runelords. There wasn’t “Runelords of Virtue” and “Runelords of Sin”. Just Runelords.

That's what they want you to believe.

(This message brought to you by the Eighth Sin, Public Relations.)


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Deadmanwalking wrote:

This creates serious issues. Making Paladins (known for their Diplomacy) also master liars has a few thematic issues, as does making all good liars also superbly charming.

That's in addition to the problems Mark Seifter mentioned with adding Intimidate in (Trolls are suddenly immensely charming and brilliant liars if all three are one skill, for example).

I tend to agree with you in theory, but at the same time, from this blog post, it seems as if certain functions of different skills are locked behind proficiency levels and/or skill feats. So couldn't the concept of what they've apparently done with Thievery be done with a "Social" skill?

IE, if picking pockets or disabling traps is a function of Thievery that is either available only with a skill feat or a higher level of proficiency, so too could things like Intimidate or Diplomacy. So in your example, the troll might be able to use its Social skill for some powerful Intimidation, but not for diplomacy (at least not nearly as well).


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Weather Report wrote:
Resonance, like attunement, does not represent internal magical energy, it is merely how much magic you can take/attune with/resonate with, due to Charisma, as far as I can see.

"What's the resonance level of that Staff of Wizardry? I need a count."

"It's over 20,000! Even Master Ezren doesn't have a resonance count that high!"

:D


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PossibleCabbage wrote:
My house rule is going to be that "thievery" is the name of the skill, but one can only ever refer to it by polite euphemisms.

Just FYI, "Dancing" has already been co-opted for proprieters of halls of ill-repute. :p


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Kytons, please? I'm not afraid to beg.

(They like it better that way.)


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Milo v3 wrote:
That wouldn't really work with the class features that are static. You might be able to retrain the Druidic Order class feature to change what order your part of, but there's been no suggestion you can retrain it to be the class features of a completely different class.

To clarify, I meant to suggest that it would work like current retraining does: you would lose your highest "static" class feature and trade it for another class feature.

I could definitely be off-base here. I hope they talk about multiclassing more.


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The Raven Black wrote:
No retraining class levels ? :-(

They haven't discussed how multiclassing will work in the new system yet, either, but given what we know so far, it seems classes are somewhat modular in terms of class abilities. As they do mention retraining feats and class features, presumably that would be all that would need to be entailed vis a vis 1E's retraining class levels.

IE, rather than have your lvl 3 ftr/2 wiz retrain a wizard level to become a 4 ft/1 wiz, now you would simply have your lvl 5 character retrain the wizard class features he picked up at lvl 3 and swap them for ftr class features of the same level. Functionally more or less the same, but the main difference is you are now just considering Character Level as opposed to Character Level and Class Level(s).

That's my guess, anyway.


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Voss wrote:
'irreligious' is just flat out the wrong word for what you're trying to say. No one indifferent to religion is going to be scared of holy symbols.

I tend to agree with this on a general level. I feel that "blasphemous" or "irreverent" are better terms for this.


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I can see how from the example creatures- zombies and skeletons- this change could work out pretty dramatically and thematically: zombies and skeletons in fiction have very different ways of being destroyed, traditionally.

I am very curious if this sort of modification holds up across different creatures and different CR levels, though. What seems to work at low levels doesn't necessarily scale.


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Weapons and armor getting potency runes but shields not seems very arbitrary to me.


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I feel like extracts, in the new system, should be the baseline components upon which elixirs and other alchemical items are crafted.


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I can't say I'm a big fan of the new stat allotment system. Everyone starting at a base 10 and each stat boost is a +2 sounds like it is going to make for some very cookie cutter ability scores. Also, since everything is a +2 stat, why not just go with single increments (+1 stat = +1 modifier)?


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edduardco wrote:
Interesting to see Alter Reality listed, I don't think Wish will be renamed so what is Alter Reality?

In 1E, Alter Reality was just a renamed Limited Wish for illusionists. Since Wish is now a 10th level spell, maybe this is just a renamed Limited Wish like in 1E?


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Add me to the list of people who think Paladins should be a prestige class (or maybe even some kind of fighter/cleric multiclass archetype).

If my memory of the heydays of 3E aren't failing me entirely, I believe early iterations of 3E attempted to do just that (have paladins be a prestige class) but the idea was thoroughly poopooed by the playtesters, such that the designers went back and made Paladins a core class again. (This happened during the private playtesting of the game that took place well before the first public marketing/leaks of the game began to dribble out and get posted online in places such as Eric Noah's D&D website- which of course eventually became ENWorld.)

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