Top Five things I'd like to see in PF2


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

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Scarab Sages

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First off, I should point out that I love Pathfinder 2. It's just. . . . there are some character concepts I have that JUST. DON'T. WORK. within the modern rules. That said, I think there are a few simple fixes to them that could really expand pathfinder 2e and really help open up the floodgates for creative characters.

1) Magus-type class for other spellcasting traditions. Seems to me that a lot of Pathfinder 2e is going in the direction of 'choose your spell list.' Sorcerers do this, Witches do it too, as do Summoners. So it might be nice to have a master in weapons, master in armor class that has magus/summoner casting but can choose their spell list. Like a True Warpriest or militant druid or Occultist from 1e. You could base it off of the old 1e Bloodrager (now that sorcerers are an 'any tradition' class, this makes sense!)

2) Shaman. A staple in fantasy, playing a shaman is pretty limited in Pathfinder 2e. Clerics can't seem to choose philosophies (or even pantheons, RAW) as sources of power. So unless your GM makes an exception, your cleric can't worship the spirits of the land or ancestors to gain power. Sure, I guess you could be a druid, but that ties you into one of the druid types and none of those types are 'spirits of the land' or 'ancestors.' You could play an oracle, but that implies that the spirtis chose YOU, not that YOU went out to worship THEM. Either an anamism/spirit worship druid path or just a new shaman class would work.

3)Smart Swashbucklers. Anyone remember the Inspired blade from 1e? Loved that archetype. The Swashbuckler who used their intellect and knowledge of fencing to win dules, not their witty reparte. Let's get a swashbuckler style that relies on an int-based-skill, like warfare lore, society, or crafting to win a duel! So far all we have are strength and charisma based options.

4)A new cleric doctorine. Something that makes up for the poor performance of warpriest. I've personally put forward the idea of Sacred Fist, where the doctorine gets Master in unarmed combat and unarmored defense (and only those two) but caps out at master spellcasting like a warpriest. Other options I've seen floated about were an inquisitor doctorine and an evangalist doctorine

5)Another 'good' healer. Cleric seems to reign at the top of the healing charts, with, like a whole bunch of extra healing spells every day (up to 6 or something heightened to max level.) Sure The witch has a hex to heal, and the life oracle can do a bit of extra healing, but just, clerics blow everyone away. I'd like to see a class that can kinda sorta keep up with clerics. Maybe don't make them AS good, but more than just devoting all your druid's spell slots to 'heal' just in case you get into a bad fight. Like maybe, you get one free Heal spell/spell level/day (kinda like how specialist wizards get a free school spell a day/level.) Maybe combine it with the Shaman idea above?

Liberty's Edge

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1) Caster MC Dedication on Magus.

2) Oracle indeed. The classes are bags of mechanics that can be reflavored as you wish.

3) Investigator.

4) Warpriest is not that bad IMO.

5) Medic archetype, especially on Forensic Investigator. Other possibility : several PCs with healing ability, including healing consumables.

Being able to cast Heal once or twice in a fight is good. More than that should not be required.

Sovereign Court

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1. A lot of rituals, varying from the common & practical stuff that a lot of PCs might use, to the grotesque and rare.

2. Filling out the skill feats, so that all skills have nice things in the vein of Bon Mot and Kip Up. Skills like Arcana badly need more options. For an investigator, your bonus skill feats must be mental but most of them are niche or Intimidation/Medicine. Wizards have very little exciting options to choose from. This is a good place to fix the "intelligence isn't useful enough" problem.

3. Potency runes for spell attacks. The Shadow Signet is a level 10 item and involves lots of guesswork. Spell attacks are going up against ACs designed to challenge martials with potency runes.

4. Automatic scaling on all feats that give you weapon and armor proficiency, so that once you decide to pick up a new weapon or armor you can keep using it the rest of your career.

5. Revised rules for Recall Knowledge, that drastically make it easier. Too often when you really would like to know something about a monster it's Unique and/or higher level than you and therefore quite high DC. So you don't really learn much of anything.


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I only got 3:

1. I wish Lores scaled automatically. Skill proficiencies are needed for some Class Feats and archetypes, and you don't have any incentive to scale up a Lore similarly.

2. More Class Feats, in general.

3. More spontaneous caster options. I just hate prepared casting, flexible or not, and I'd love to be a Spontaneous Magus/Witch/etc. Spontaneous archetypes were my lifeblood in PF2E.


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Here are my 5:

1 - A magicky class that's flavored like a mage but not actually a traditional spellcaster and is focused on damage, through simpler, easier to pick up means (probably focus cantrips or pseudo-strikes and focus spells). It could be Kineticist, Warlock, whatever, I just think this is really important both for the people who are unsatisfied with blasting and want to cut the versatility of spells to be better at it, and to have a class for new players who like the fantasy of being a mage that does kaboom but have trouble dealing with all the complexities of spellcasting.

2 - Focus Maneuvers as an option for martial characters. Call them whatever else if you will, the point is giving fully martial characters like Fighter and Rogue options to get cool and powerful things to do with limited use, instead of being stuck with only at-will options that are always much more conservative in what they can do (for obvious reasons). Think Tome of Battle stuff.

3 - A class or class archetype that lets you play a real defender that isn't tied to alignment and deities. Could be a Warden or Protector class, a class archetype for an existing class, or both, I just want to end the monopoly of Champion on being the single real defender in the game.

4 - More options for casters who want to specialize in one theme of magic. Think Shadowcaster but for other themes. I was disappointed in how little Secrets of Magic had in this regard.

5 - More support for a lot of the existing playstyles and things that aren't all that favored by the game currently. Thrown weapons, Intelligence skills, Dex-based melee on anything that isn't Thief Rogue, etc.

Those are the things I want the most in terms of new content, but I'll also add that there's a lot of minor fixes to base rules that I think the game would really benefit from too. Some of the ones Ascalaphus mentioned for example: getting rid of non-scaling weapon/armor proficiencies, basically trap options that feel like a relic of old design; revising Recall Knowledge. There's also giving people ways to scale the DC on fixed DC items (probably through investing) and many other things.


dmerceless wrote:

Here are my 5:

1 - A magicky class that's flavored like a mage but not actually a traditional spellcaster and is focused on damage, through simpler, easier to pick up means (probably focus cantrips or pseudo-strikes and focus spells). It could be Kineticist, Warlock, whatever, I just think this is really important both for the people who are unsatisfied with blasting and want to cut the versatility of spells to be better at it, and to have a class for new players who like the fantasy of being a mage that does kaboom but have trouble dealing with all the complexities of spellcasting.

2 - Focus Maneuvers as an option for martial characters. Call them whatever else if you will, the point is giving fully martial characters like Fighter and Rogue options to get cool and powerful things to do with limited use, instead of being stuck with only at-will options that are always much more conservative in what they can do (for obvious reasons). Think Tome of Battle stuff.

3 - A class or class archetype that lets you play a real defender that isn't tied to alignment and deities. Could be a Warden or Protector class, a class archetype for an existing class, or both, I just want to end the monopoly of Champion on being the single real defender in the game.

4 - More options for casters who want to specialize in one theme of magic. Think Shadowcaster but for other themes. I was disappointed in how little Secrets of Magic had in this regard.

5 - More support for a lot of the existing playstyles and things that aren't all that favored by the game currently. Thrown weapons, Intelligence skills, Dex-based melee on anything that isn't Thief Rogue, etc.

Those are the things I want the most in terms of new content, but I'll also add that there's a lot of minor fixes to base rules that I think the game would really benefit from too. Some of the ones Ascalaphus mentiond for example: getting rid of non-scaling weapon/armor proficiencies, basically trap options that feel like a relic of old design; revising Recall...

It's a good list. 2 is the only one I'm not sure on. With the discourse on martial/caster balance idk if martial focus powers would end up sitting well with all the people currently unhappy with caster performance. Taking something that's traditionally theirs might be salt in the wound. Who knows though, rangers and champions and monks already have focus powers, though magic in nature. Maybe that ship has long sailed.


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I will list my top things would be...

1. As someone else mentioned I think interesting combat skill feats would be good overall for some of the "weaker" skills. Medicine/Athletics/Charisma skill are already great. I find Intellect/Dexterity/Wisdom characters not as fun in this regard.

2. Of course new ancestries / classes / archetypes :), Shifter/Kineticist type classes are on the top of my list.

3. More feats for ancestries/classes that have low amounts of feats. It would be nice if all ancestries had similar amount of feats. Core ancestries of course can have a bit.

There really aren't many specific things I need in the game at this moment. I am already kind of falling into too much content to actually play :).


I just need Inquisitor and a certain list of Ancestries to be happy, though I have friends begging for Kineticist, Bloodrager, and Shaman to come back.


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WWHsmackdown wrote:
It's a good list. 2 is the only one I'm not sure on. With the discourse on martial/caster balance idk if martial focus powers would end up sitting well with all the people currently unhappy with caster performance. Taking something that's traditionally theirs might be salt in the wound. Who knows though, rangers and champions and monks already have focus powers, though magic in nature. Maybe that ship has long sailed.

Focus powers aren't anything like caster-exclusive. Basically everything he's describing here is already covered by monk focus spells, or close enough to be an obvious outgrowth. He just wants to give explicitly full-martial classes like the investigator, fighter, and rogue ways to opt into focus effects without having to make themselves explicitly magical. At a cost in class feats? Doesn't seem that unfair to me.

Now if you start handing daily slots to fighters, then people are likely to get a mite concerned, but even that would be easily enough handled. Just make it an archetype where slot gain was on the same pattern you get from multiclass caster archetypes. At that point you're not giving them anything that anyone else isn't getting already - it's just that you're giving them a way to get it that's still fully in-theme for them.

The real issue would be filling out the not-a-spell lists to actually make it work. Of course, if you're doing that, it's almost worthwhile to make the archetype in question actually a multiclass archetype, and put together some sort of "punch wizard" class. That might be a bit too far on the silly side, though.

I'm not saying that I want this. Personally, I couldn't care less. It's the exact opposite end of the spectrum from where I want to live. I'm just saying that if you wanted to make it happen, there are reasonable ways to do it that would both be fair and make everyone looking at them more or less agree that they were fair.

Radiant Oath

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1) Lores should either auto-scale or we should get skill increases that can only be spent on lore. Some system to spend downtime on learning lores would be nice too.

2) All ancestries should have two level 17 feats. Core should have more, but I would like to have a choice of powerful options for my high level feats. I often feel forced into Aasimar just to have good feat choices.

3) Kineticist or some blaster class.

4) It's a long shot, but I'd love to have Binder, the old 3.5 class from Tome of magic. You picked a spirit each day to bind with, and that gave you a set of abilities.

5) Magic items that scale with level. This is especially true for any item with DCs, but I'd also like to have my family's legendary sword stay relevant at higher level. Automatic Bonus Progression only gets me part of the way. I'd like a robust system of leveling up items as the players go.


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AceofMoxen wrote:
5) Magic items that scale with level. This is especially true for any item with DCs, but I'd also like to have my family's legendary sword stay relevant at higher level. Automatic Bonus Progression only gets me part of the way. I'd like a robust system of leveling up items as the players go.

Have you considered using relics for your games? Here's the AoN page, in case you hadn't heard of them.

Things I'd like to see, in no particular order.

1. More skill feats, like others have said upthread, especially other things that can be used in encounter mode to help Int come more into its own.

2. Some manner of blasting, rooty tooty magic shooty class, like a Kineticist. On the opposite end of the spectrum, I'd like a new, totally non-magical class, one that is focused on defending, positioning, or handing out actions and tactical advantages to allies ... or some combination of the three.

3. Some of the old eidolon types to make it back into the game. Aberrations, aeons, devils, elementals, proteans, and shadows come especially to mind.

4. Rules for making a building, business, town or kingdom, like we had in 1E, though I'm less worried about this particular point since it's one that can usually be roleplayed and we're getting some of these rules when Kingmaker hits.

5. I'd like tech to come back. Technology Guide was one of my favorite releases from 1E and I really enjoyed it.

Radiant Oath

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Perpdepog wrote:
AceofMoxen wrote:
5) Magic items that scale with level. This is especially true for any item with DCs, but I'd also like to have my family's legendary sword stay relevant at higher level. Automatic Bonus Progression only gets me part of the way. I'd like a robust system of leveling up items as the players go.
Have you considered using relics for your games? Here's the AoN page, in case you hadn't heard of them.

Oh, wow, I totally forgot about relic rules. Paizo really did think of everything.


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1. An update of the existing rule set with some tweaks to some features that aren't working very well like familiars and some classes that could use some improvement to their feats like wizards and witches.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

1. Sailing rules expanded. I want more ships, customizable ships you can deck out with faster sails, stronger hulls and better armaments as you level up, deeper ship-to-ship combat (especially with gunpowder getting a bigger role recently), crew and navigation rules, etc. Let's have us a naval campaigns hardback!

2. Trickster class. Functioning like an Envoy (from Starfinder) with a variety of social talents, as well as utility spell-focused low casting ability. Eldritch Trickster Rogue isn't quite living up to my Loki fantasy, and Envoy is such a fun, unique class concept I'd love to see make the jump to 2e. It fills so many narrative niches 2e hasn't quite hit yet.

3. Mythic rules. Pathfinder will never be complete until I TPK my pcs with Cthulhu. Maybe finally get some guidelines for a Test of the Starstone here.

4. Rune magic rules. Sorshen's article on rune magic in Secrets of Magic sounded really interesting, a little like Words of Power from 1e, actually. Would be nice to see that expanded on.

5. Fortress defense/siege sandbox rules. So, large-scale battles are annoying and take the focus off of small parties in a campaign, which is double annoying. I'm not personally invested in seeing 1e's Mass Combat rules come back. However, I really do love siege scenes. A small subsystem being introduced to allow PCs to customize and tactically deploy soldiers, defenses and armaments ahead of an encounter, that could have environmental and tactical effects on encounters that lead out of that planning sequence, would be nice. Give that fantasy that you're commanding an army without having to actually play as that army itself. Something for a martial-themed book. Maybe some pre-designed scripts and map setups for cool siege-themed encounters GMs could use, functioning narratively a little like chases, with chained events that occur based on how well you perform at each one.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

1 - 5: An errata and FAQ that was updated several times a year.


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dmerceless wrote:


4 - More options for casters who want to specialize in one theme of magic. Think Shadowcaster but for other themes. I was disappointed in how little Secrets of Magic had in this regard.

I mean some of the options were interesting. Elementalist was a good concept, but it's spell list is too narrow. Please keep trying.

dmerceless wrote:


5 - More support for a lot of the existing playstyles and things that aren't all that favored by the game currently. Thrown weapons, Intelligence skills, Dex-based melee on anything that isn't Thief Rogue, etc.

Yep definitely more to do with thrown weapons, and some good Int based Society skill use and skill feats.


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1. More support for existing classes, specially classes from APG and beyond. Those could be in the form of more feats, new subclasses or patch notes like errata like the one Alchemist got.

2. Slowing the pace of the new books in exchange of more errata. I know it was becuase of the delay, but G&G and Grand Bazaar right after SoM felt exausting. I would rather know how things work for real instead of getting more questions unanwsered at this pace.

3. Just making Toughness, Fleet and Incredible Initiative PC traits(like you choose 1 at x level, then one of the other 2 later on, then the one remaining). Like what's the point of having that many cool General feats that just have to be compared to these.

4. More good, low level skill feats.

5. A way to make static DCs from items use your class DC instead.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
AceofMoxen wrote:
4) It's a long shot, but I'd love to have Binder, the old 3.5 class from Tome of magic. You picked a spirit each day to bind with, and that gave you a set of abilities.

You’re not getting a binder, due to copyright, but we’ll probably get a medium eventually, which has similar flavor and mechanics.


1 mythic rules!!!
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5 see above

Scarab Sages

The Raven Black wrote:
1) Caster MC Dedication on Magus.

I sure, that's an option, but it takes up most of your feats for casting unless your GM is doing free archetype rules. Plus, it would be nice to see some other options other than spellstriking.

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2) Oracle indeed. The classes are bags of mechanics that can be reflavored as you wish.

True, but Shaman, at least the vibe I'm going for, are people who are connected to the spirits of nature, not cursed by it.

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3) Investigator.

I mean, unless you want parry/riposte and the 10 HP per level and the extra 2 damage on all attacks not just your first one. I wanna try out the swashbuckler, I just want to see some options for generating panache other than charisma or strength based checks.

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4) Warpriest is not that bad IMO.

I won't start this fight, but I'd like to see some more options. Like i said, sacred fist seems like a legit way to go here.

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5) Medic archetype, especially on Forensic Investigator. Other possibility : several PCs with healing ability, including healing consumables.

Being able to cast Heal once or twice in a fight is good. More than that should not be required.

I dunno what games you've been playing, but a LOT of boss fights in Agents of Edgewatch have our healing cleric pull out all the stops just to keep us alive. Sure, scrub fight don't need much healing past like, level 6ish, but even at level 10, with a Paladin with a Tower Shield and full plate we are still needing our cleric to heal almost every round.


VampByDay wrote:

2) Shaman. A staple in fantasy, playing a shaman is pretty limited in Pathfinder 2e. Clerics can't seem to choose philosophies (or even pantheons, RAW) as sources of power. So unless your GM makes an exception, your cleric can't worship the spirits of the land or ancestors to gain power. Sure, I guess you could be a druid, but that ties you into one of the druid types and none of those types are 'spirits of the land' or 'ancestors.' You could play an oracle, but that implies that the spirtis chose YOU, not that YOU went out to worship THEM. Either an anamism/spirit worship druid path or just a new shaman class would work.

Clerics can def worship Pantheons and Philosopies.


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You know the feedback threads posted after every playtest? The ones where Paizo talk about internal testing, and external perception and how people play?

Well, I'd love to see that once or twice a year in regards to Pathfinder 2e as a whole.

Things like talking about how Warpriests are perceived vs internal playtests, or how they were expected to be 'selfish' casters using things like 'heroism' to keep up with other martials.

Or how Witches are seen as the weakest of the current casters, but that there is a slew of new lessons (I hope) on the horizon that should bring them into line with everyone else.

It could be paired with a 1-2 times a year errata update where they can explain their choices and reasonings.

I think it would be healthy for the game and the community as a whole.


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Thorn wrote:
1 - 5: An errata and FAQ that was updated several times a year.

Mostly this, but I'd also like to have a superior rune of shifting, allowing the character to shift for free once per round.


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VampByDay wrote:


4)A new cleric doctorine. Something that makes up for the poor performance of warpriest. I've personally put forward the idea of Sacred Fist, where the doctorine...

I am surprised that there have not been several new cleric doctrines by now. In addition to Sacred Fist, you could have an Evangelist, that gets automatic skill increases to Diplomacy, Society, and Bluff as well as a few bonus skill feats, and an Inquisitor that gets automatic boosts to Perception and, Stealth, and Intimidation, a bonus to Reflex saves, and few bonus skill feats. The Inquisitor would get light armor proficiency, and the Evangelist would get to to use their divine channel spells to cast divine enchantment spells in additional to heal or harm.

Something like that.


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Inkfist wrote:
I think it would be healthy for the game and the community as a whole.

I'd really like it too, but I don't think it would be to anyone on the development side's benefit.


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More defenders.
Better options for full casters(feats and new classes/archetypes).
Martial focus powers, we already have dailies and once per hour type stuff, just give some super flourishes.
Warlord.
Fixes to core issues, like wildshape.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

1. More classes on the support (alchemist) chassis, just to see what can be done with it.
2. Multiple caster classes with no spells (starting to think Thaumaturges might have been better on a caster chassis instead of the martial chassis. Implements could have been a LOT more powerful, for example).
3. Starfinder class conversions. Not the system or setting abandoned, but the Starfinder classes offered as either archetypes, class archetypes, or full PF2 classes for those of us that like the setting but not the system.
4. Related, a book with high-tech fantasy items and archetypes. Guns and Gers wa a good start, but I want the technology guide.
5. More cantrips. Particularly 1 action cantrips, but any will do. I got a lot in SoM, but I always want more. They’re weirdly my favorite addition to the game.


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1) Longer playtest periods with a slower release pace. This should give the designers more time to breathe as well as tweak class designs. Ideally, there'd be two or more public playtests per class at a slower development pace.

2) Simple Casters + Complex Martials. Right now, the casters are balanced around being able to have a variety of tricks they can regularly change out, while Martials pick and choose stuff to keep for their entire career. There's a design space for casters that remain focused, but at a higher power (Kineticist as an example) as well as martials who can more freely branch out (ToB style initiators or a Combat Flexibility Specialist for examples). It's a bit rough when there's still quite a few situational feats.

3) More martials that aren't just damage-based. There's a trend in the post-core martials that they're all strikers first, but with options to branch out (like All-for-One Swashbuckler). This focus on damage has left some of the classes feeling like other classes, but with extra steps (Inventor is Roll to Rage, Playtest Thaum was Roll to Hunt Prey). It also means there aren't enough options for non-Striker playstyles.

4) More errata/Errata playtest. Balance errata is always a tough sell to some, but previews of errata rulesets allows for solutions to be found for issues still present in the CRB, such as STR Animal Companions falling behind on AC to a punishing degree or the Alchemist still having issues as an "active support" rather than a "pre-fight support" due to a poor action economy.

5) More optional rulesets. More alternate rules like ABP or PWL could allow for experimentation in the system for future improvements. While these will clearly change the balance of the game, as long as alterations are not hugely math-altering like PWL, it shouldn't be too much of a concern.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
AnimatedPaper wrote:


3. Starfinder class conversions. Not the system or setting abandoned, but the Starfinder classes offered as either archetypes, class archetypes, or full PF2 classes for those of us that like the setting but not the system.
4. Related, a book with high-tech fantasy items and archetypes. Guns and Gers was a good start, but I want the technology guide.

YES


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VampByDay wrote:
-snipped to save space-

I would like to open by saying I appreciate how you have framed your post, the following is not an attack but rather a series of personal opinions that sometimes refute.

1. 100% agree that more gish are needed, but since they didn't take the class archetype route I think full classes is the way to go now.

2. Pantheon worship was brought in with Gods & Magic. Ideal worship is more of an oracle thing rather than cleric thing. Shaman is actually pretty handily covered by druid and oracle imo, heck even witch works well thanks to patrons being intentionally vague.

4. I would argue a smart swashbuckler isn't a swashbuckler, it is an investigator.

5. I agree that clerics could do with another doctrine (or maybe a class archetype that replaces the doctrine to shake things up further). But warpriest is fine, it is just misunderstood, if it had some warpriest prereq feats to support its strengths more obviously I wager people would be less confused.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
The Gleeful Grognard wrote:
4. I would argue a smart swashbuckler isn't a swashbuckler, it is an investigator.

I don't really agree at all. A Swashbuckler that generates panache with RK or similar checks is only similar to the Investigator in that the Investigator probably also makes RK checks (but so do lots of characters).

The Swashbuckler's mechanics, feats and overall style are distinct enough from the Investigator that I think this is a supremely unsatisfying answer.


The Gleeful Grognard wrote:

2. Pantheon worship was brought in with Gods & Magic. Ideal worship is more of an oracle thing rather than cleric thing. Shaman is actually pretty handily covered by druid and oracle imo, heck even witch works well thanks to patrons being intentionally vague.

I think there's enough space for Shaman as a Primal Wave Caster, mixing in the Shifter into its chassis. Subclasses could be Shifter (wildshapey), Invoker (summoney), Cursebreaker (utility), and Augur (diviney).

And I also think there's space for Inquisitor as a Divine Wave Caster, but probably named something like "Templar" to invite more concepts. Subclasses could be named like "Sanctifier" (utility), "Watcher" (stealthy), "Protector" (tough), "Eradicator" (aggressive) and focus of the different aspects of Inquisitors.


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I want to see Michael Sayre’s take on the Shaman, the one that actually draws on real-world shamanic practices.


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1. An adventure path that uses automatic bonus progression, because I'd like to see the rule in play but would rather not create extra work for my GMs, who both run adventure paths (including one I think ABP would be a poor thematic fit for).
2. A Wisdom-based caster or martial who has a different flavor than the Cleric or Druid, because I want more options when the party already has someone strong, quick, smart and charismatic;
3. More Sorcerer bloodlines and Eidolon types, especially ones that provide access to the Occult spell list, my favorite;
4. A gish that incentivizes self-buffing or battlefield control rather than striking; and
5. An equivalent to Sentinel for Unarmored Defense, because it's hard for me to imagine people walking around in armor in tropical climates or cities, and as much as I love the Monk and Soul Forger, I'd like to experiment with other concepts.


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A WIS based occult (or at least pick your tradition) character. Ideally a Medium/Shaman.

This may possibly (hopefully) overlap, but the Fiend Keeper medium would essentially be exactly what I want (but perhaps with wis instead of cha).


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Secret Wizard wrote:
I think there's enough space for Shaman as a Primal Wave Caster, mixing in the Shifter into its chassis. Subclasses could be Shifter (wildshapey), Invoker (summoney), Cursebreaker (utility), and Augur (diviney).

As far as Shifter is concerned, I know a number of people (myself included) are specifically hoping for a spell-less (as in slots) Shifter.


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One deeply niche request: I’d love the Nanite Bloodline back for Sorcerers.


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keftiu wrote:
One deeply niche request: I’d love the Nanite Bloodline back for Sorcerers.

If/when it comes back, can we also get it as an instinct for barbarians? I was sad it never found its way to the bloodrager in 1E.


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Perpdepog wrote:
keftiu wrote:
One deeply niche request: I’d love the Nanite Bloodline back for Sorcerers.
If/when it comes back, can we also get it as an instinct for barbarians? I was sad it never found its way to the bloodrager in 1E.

Yes, same!! Let me be a techno-Bloodrager!


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1. Kineticist not butchered, by using spell slots.

2. Kineticist not butchered, by making their utility talents compete with infusions.

3. Kineticist not butchered, by

4. More cool caster/Alchemist feats.

5. A lot more cool items that auto scale. Or that at least don't care about level.

Bonus Did I mentioned Kineticist not getting butchered?


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Temperans wrote:

1. Kineticist not butchered, by using spell slots.

2. Kineticist not butchered, by making their utility talents compete with infusions.

3. Kineticist not butchered, by

4. More cool caster/Alchemist feats.

5. A lot more cool items that auto scale. Or that at least don't care about level.

Bonus Did I mentioned Kineticist not getting butchered?

Just let their feats have both a utility talent *and* an infusion in singular feats

There's a design space for feats that do multiple things that sadly isn't used. Stuff like the Tongue of Sun and Moon could have really used a second ability.


At this point Bloodrager is the only major thing I'm missing.


mythic rules or whatever the pathfinder2e equivalent would be that's all I want!!!


Golurkcanfly wrote:

Just let their feats have both a utility talent *and* an infusion in singular feats

There's a design space for feats that do multiple things that sadly isn't used. Stuff like the Tongue of Sun and Moon could have really used a second ability.

Exactly, specially letting feats do multiple different stuff based on element. Like the mobility talents. No need for 8 feats when you can literally just have 2. (Maybe 4 if they split the release of the elements.)


keftiu wrote:
I want to see Michael Sayre’s take on the Shaman, the one that actually draws on real-world shamanic practices.

Shamanic practices differ a lot depending on which culture they are from but the Shaman as a primary healer and diviner to compete with the cleric would be nice.


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1. kineticist
2. more auto/scaling and/or lvl independent items as previously suggested
3. Lost Omens Darklands
4. Lost Omens Arcadia
5. Lost Omens High Seas


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Temperans wrote:
1. Kineticist not butchered, by using spell slots.

Wait, so do you want spell slots or not? The sentence is really ambiguous with that comma plopped in there.

This isn't me being snide. I legitimately can't tell which way it's supposed to go.


Hmm, thinks hard gosh darn it you are right. Curse my bad english grammar.

I do mean, "Kineticist should not use spell slots". But now I don't know how to write the sentence while keeping the word butchered.


"Don't butcher the Kineticist by making them use Spell Slots."
"Don't butcher the Kineticist by forcing them to choose between utility powers and infusions."
"Don't butcher the Kineticist"

...and yeah - if you want to make a slot-based blaster-caster class? That's cool. There are people out there that clearly want that thing, and I'm not saying they shouldn't have it. Don't call it Kineticist, though. Don't eat that part of the design space out from under us.

As for my own Top 5 Things... well, I haven't been shy about saying them in the past, but....:

- At least one class that lets me play a slotless caster. Two would be even better. Shifter+Kineticist would be *great*.

- The ability to play a Divine Caster Horde Undead Summoner so that I can have the guy who's walking around with a small military unit worth of skeletons/zombies and still have it balanced.

- An Aberrant (Occult) Summoner who can spend some of his eidolon type budget on being particularly good at grappling because All The Tentacles. Possibly some sort of "being in the grip of abominations from beyond reality is not a good thing" effect that adds on extra effects to the grapple?

- It's a long-shot, but I'd love a slotless witch that just had piles of hex focus spells and hex cantrips instead. Bonus points if you can make Living Hair actually competitive as a place to spend feats for people who aren't monks with a witch archetype.

- Bombardier - someone with the alchemist "perpetual" ability to create bombs as an at-will action, who's balanced to be able to hang with the martials on overall battlefield impact just by creating and throwing bombs. Selling off most of the alchemist utility factor is fine


Something else I just realized I'd like to see, or at least see more of. I'd like to see more Adjustments and Accessory Runes. They're fun little things and I like stuff that lets you slightly tweak gear you already have and broaden up the number of options available.

I'd also like to see more varied kinds of armor, too. They weren't great, but I miss armored coats, and stoneplate was real neat.

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