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What about focus spells and refocusing progression?
Isn't it too much? ps: I always felt the minstrel name as somebody not tied to magic ( just a rogue, for example, with compositions ). I know I can already do the something similar with the bard dedication, indeed, but it's a long way to get them with a dedication ( and only a very limited part of them ). ![]()
In addition to what already posted by Ascalaphus, a doubt about Skald Weapon Expertise. Quote: you gain access to the critical specialization effects of all simple and martial weapons and unarmed attacks while singing or while under the effect of a composition spell. What does singing mean? Expending 1 action every round to perform?![]()
JiCi wrote:
Indeed not being able to rely on spells with the verbal component is a huge nerf ( the majority if not all 2 actions spells are unavailable ). I did a quick search not knowing the bloodrager class from 1e, and it seems the class was meant to give them up to lvl 4 spells ( with a slow progression ). I am not sure whether they were offensive spells or defensive ones, but given how this 2e works in terms of spellcasting dedications, I wouldn't expect a martial combatant to make a good use of offensive spells through a dedication ( not talking about gishers that have their own spellcasting, obviously ). Maybe a bloodrager archetype could have some way to make moment of clarity a free action ( I am not also sure whether with this 2e a barbarian still deserves not to be able to cast spells while raging. Isn't their rage just what makes them equal to other classes? Like the +2 from fighter, the rogue sneak attack, etc... ). ![]()
arcady wrote:
Definitely true ( I also appreciate the witch dedication because, unlike the witch class, it's pretty strong ). I really hope that the remastered would bring some important improvements to the class. Anyway, we started AV with FA, and once our group hit lvl 2 our DM decided not to use FA anymore ( mostly because the combat encounters were already easier, and because with 5 characters all skills had already been covered ). The best approach would imo be to list the available archetypes for the campaign, allowing the players to choose between them. This would limit powercreep ( extra feats are always powercreep, that's why "limit" ), while also giving some interesting alternatives for the characters ( rather than seeing bastion, sentinel, medic, etc... all the time ). ![]()
Richard Lowe wrote: Pretty sure at this point I've seen more players spend fights unconscious due to Sudden Charge than most any other feat. It almost needs a warning sidebar with it "Use responsibly." Same. - Small rooms in every AP, not requiring the character to rush forward in a similar way ( although a dwarf or a heavy armored combatant that didn't take fleet might find it somehow useful ).
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Given a blaster arcane spellcaster within the group, I found out that it's better to have an occult spellcaster as healer ( even if soothe is not strong as heal ). This would allow the characters to benefit from synesthesia, as well as some healings. Currently we have 3 occult spellcasters: - Sorcerer ( they can get heal by lvl 8, making them excellent ).
Whatever the occult spellcaster, things are going to be fine ( I prefer spontaneous ones because this 2e is full of useless spells, making easier to just keep the essentials ). The wizard might easily provide assistance by getting the witch dedication and the basic lesson ( lesson of life ). Even a single cast per fights would allow to save daily resources, making it always an excellent pick ( they also get a familiar that way ). Anyway, I think the main issue is that players still look for a way to ease combat encounters the most, while they can easily complete any adventure with a healer, a blaster and a couple of combatants. To make a quick examples, it's not rare to find groups that play this way: - Several characters with medicine and battle medicine
and so on. On the one hand, it's pretty normal for characters to increase their chance of survival the best they can, but on the other hand it's just the players choice. Would taking synesthesia and 2 hybrid healers/blasters, synesthesia, heroism/inspirecourage,etc... make things easier compared to bring an arcane spellcaster? I say yes, but APs don't require any of this. And reading similar threads, it's pretty clear that Paizo did wrong creating a spell like synesthesia ( and I also agree that heroism could easily be on the arcane list too ). ![]()
Striding and using athletics is 2 actions.
If you are talking about a long jump, you can do the same by taking the feat that lowers the required actions to 1 and remove the 10-foot distance required by the long jump. This would make 1 action to long jump and another one for the athletics check. The rest is just flavor ( I think there's no need for a feat, since everything is already covered by the rules ). ![]()
RobinEaton wrote:
Consider that even without any point into dex, it would allow you to keep +3 AC from a hide armor, and an additional +2 from your shield. This would put you somehow equal to any combatant class not using a shield ( which though not optimal, it would still be not bad either ). Also, what level are you going to start? By lvl 3 your kind wizard friend could cast Endure Elements on you, nullifying the effects of the heat for the whole day ( you will be able to get your armor on all the time ). You can also cast it yourself with trick magic items and a wand ( though you can't craft magic items, I am not sure you won't also be able to buy them from a local shop). This would allow you not to get the soulforger dedication, to get something else. There's also the Forge Dwarf Heritage, that would help you dealing with it. Quote: Severe heat 105º F* to 114º F (41º C to 45º C) 4 hours Minor fire every hour So, you won't suffer fire damage from a severe environement. If the environement is severe, any other character will suffer from fire damage every hour. If they don't, the environement climate is not severe, and you don't suffer neither fire nor heat effects.![]()
I think they wouldn't be able to free a paralyzed ally too ( though as mentioned before, the only trait is the champion one ). Quote: Trigger An enemy damages, Grabs, or Grapples your ally, and both are within 15 feet of you. So, the trigger would be one of the 3 actions, on an already paralized target ( but can't be used as reaction on a critical failed will save against paralyze ). ![]()
Mathmuse wrote:
Point 1 is what I always consider to be the best ( demonstrate the value, but not only towards changes, but also towards brand new features ). Having done this since day one would not only have contributed in sharing paizo pov / intent with 2e mechanics ( getting closer to the community ), but it would also have helped clarifying ambiguous rules, leaving no room for interpretation at least for what concern major issues. I know it's something that requires time as well as an agreement on how the whole package works ( which might not be always easy ). Mathmuse wrote:
That might be true to a point. Being almost/around 4 years since 2019, I think it requires not so much effort to understand what are the priorities for players ( just by lurking reddit, for example ). Obviously, this would probably exclude last minute requests ( back to your examples, it's the first time I read something about splitting the rations price ), but it woudln't be a big deal. ps: I too agree with what you wrote about point 2 and 3, for this errata. ![]()
The cloak is really something.
I can't remember whether it has to be pointed out whether the concealed condition can't be used to hide, making it ok to hide with a default concleament, or it's a big no by default ( and sometimes the description just reminds this to players )? ![]()
I was lurking on reddit looking for posts about this argument and I just happend to found one. At first I was interested in just the first question, but reading the others I realized that there are several possibilities. I have recently started playing an oscillating wave for AV, and I was wondering whether I might have been able to provide assistance to my whole party without a secondary healer instead ( currently we have a warpriest, that would like to reroll a different character ). Anyway, what's your take on this subject? ![]()
I am not sure it's the lack of spells that make arcane less appealing, but rather the versatility. Wizard is also INT based ( as we the witch ), ending up being less appealing than a WIS or CHA based spellcaster, but again this would be just an extra. One of 2e major issues, to me, is that a character just need to have a level 1 spell that they can enhance over and over to deal with healings, while damaging spells tend to be better as well as different the more the game proceeds. For example, we have Level 1) Burning hands ( 2d6, heightened +1 2d6, 15-foot cone )
So, even by lvl 2 a spellcaster might consider using flaming sphere instead of a heightened version of burning hands, if the fight seem to last longer or just to make a good use of their 3rd action. By lvl 3 fireball obliterates burning hands, both for range and area.
By lvl 4, weapon storm can be an excellent choice, because of the 2 area of effects. By lvl 5, cone of cold beats any other existing aoe spell in terms of damage, moving from 10d6 to 12d6. The range is also awesome ( being first in initiative, a spellcaster can easily go in a corner and use it hitting the whole room ). And that's it ( these are just examples ). Healing works in a different way, which is "I got heal and I rank it at higher levels". which means that a druid won't really care about divine exclusive healing spells, mostly because the important ones are already in the nature tradition spell list, but also because a heightened heal do the job better than anything else. Same goes for the occult list.
It's kinda boring being a healbot in this 2e, mostly because of the lack of possibilities ( you have to build towards it by getting lay on hand, battle medicine, and similar ), but while boring it's pretty functional. Finally, imo, there are spells way too good and a load of useless ( or not so useful ) ones, ending up with a spontaneous spellcaster to be excellent and not that limited when it comes down to "1 signature spell per level" and "a limited number of spells in their spell list". So that's why I think that even with more spells ( unless you expect those more spells to be all exclusive to the Arcane list ) the wizard won't probably be that appealing as other spellcasters. Paizo should imo work towards the wizard and witch class making them more appealing with feats. Wizard must have ( it's a must ) the standard refocus progression as any other spellcaster ( 1-12-18 ) along with additional spells ( eventually, revising the arcane school given, because they are not that good ), and the witch could really use some extra love in terms of familiars... make some feats and revise some old ones making both witch and familiar working as they were a single entity. ![]()
Having access to disappearance would also mean have some teleports, like a lvl 4 dimensionsl door, or flying features. In combat encounters, I hardly doubt high level monsters/characters would travel with bags of flour. Outside combat encounters, just disappearance and time jump would do it. To me, it's just a bad spell ( mean I don't allow it when I am the DM) given this 2e is a combat/tactical game, and I agree it could have been written in a better way. ![]()
Gaulin wrote:
I fear that nerfing heroism won't do any good, especially for the divine tradition. Occult spellcasters ( bards, mostly ) already have inspire heroics that is way better than heroism ( that enhances the whole group on the synesthesia round ). As for Synesthesia, we should probably ask ourselves:
The best I remember are the lvl 10 ruffian sneak attack ( clumsy 1 ) which is easy to apply on boss, and a double slice fighter with double hammer ( both enhanced with crushing runes ). but both are not only class but also require a specialization ( rogue > ruffian , Fighter > hammers > crushing instead of extra dmg runes ). Reason why, if I were to choose, I'd probably say farewell to synesthesia rather than giving it to other traditions ( If I were to, as said before, It would be on the arcane list ). ![]()
Arachnofiend wrote:
I think it would be exactly the same... clumsy 3... with the enemy surrounded with AoO users to deal with spells. ![]()
IIRC there's a beautiful feat for the alchemist that allows you to shape the form, and also gives a +3 status to your own saves. Not the question is whether you inhale to shape because of the feat or you always inhale when you open the vial. Anyway, being an item I think you can always throw it to an empty space with no check at all. Smashing the vial. ![]()
The Raven Black wrote:
I think that's not an issue, if used as a general information about the species/ancestry. There's nothing wrong in stating "usually, these creatures are evil". Different would be stating " These creatures are evil. It can't exist a non evil one". The latter would kill the possibility of alternatives, although rare ones ( for example a good dark elf). ![]()
Sudden charge mostly depends on the environment and the party composition. For example, if, the barbarian strides twice and strike, ending up away from the rest of the melee allies, they'd probably be the only target for the enemy. Plus, striding 50/60 would always require 2 actions, even without sudden charge. This could end up for more actions for the enemies, requiring less distance to get in melee reach with the heroes. I tend not to get it, unless the other melee character rushes with me at the beginning of the combat ( requiring both to have similar initiative score). Anyway, I think nothing can match up with a fighter with double slice ( hammer + crushing runes), in terms of ally support ( flat footed + clumsy) and overall damage. Boring as well as performant. ![]()
Tactical Drongo wrote:
The OP mentioned they are going to use ABP so, for what concerns runes, they are going to be ok. ![]()
SuperBidi wrote:
Actually, it's not that "the redimer is out of the question", but rather difficult to play a normal STR based champion. The current situation suggests: "In this adventure you would like to play a dex based character because you won't be wearing an armor all the time, and given the fact even a +1 bonus means a lot, having -6 AC because of an ambush would kill the game/math" So yeah, a player might play a total different champion switching from STR to DEX, or even a dex fighter with redeemer dedication, or a wizard, or any other character, but this wouldn't invalidate any of what I have highlighted. Reason why I suggested the soulforger, as the only solution ( AFAIK, there are no other "instant armor at will" by lvl 2 ) to properly play a STR based champion ( obviously, renoucing to a class feature which are heavy armors, and forcing the player to put 12/14 dex to properly use the given medium armor ). ![]()
Having the build working around moment of clarity would make the class pretty clunky in my opinion. I think that the bloodrager might be a good archetype, giving rage by default ( as an alternative to the barbarian dedication), and the feats could provide a specific set of spells ( focus spells) that have the rage trait ( allowing them to use the spells while raging). ![]()
Gaulin wrote:
And Electric arc is imo in a worst spot, because of the several complaints about spell attack spells. As for synesthesia, I am no sure either.
To do so, they have to go with the occult tradition ( or get that spell from the occult tradition). The question is IMO whether occult would deserve synesthesia as something unique or not. I agree with what superbidi said about synesthesia.
But if in over 4 years it stayed the same... The best we might probably get is a similar spell to another tradition ( arcane, for example). ![]()
I suppose the +7 enemy might even be a +20000, since you won't probably make a check against the enemy DC. Talking about infiltration, stealth vs perception. I like to give enough info to players to make themselves aware of the enemy's power, although it might always be interpreted in a different way. "They say that dragon killed an army" Might lead to "We will even be more glorious!" I think a deadly encounter ( +4 ) might be the perfect match, giving them a slight chance ( or moderate, if min maxing party) of survival, if they decide to go for it. Or, at least, the characters should have some way to know what are the odds, more or less. ![]()
Trixleby wrote: Well so far we have gotten through 3 fights then decided to surface and long rest and all of that. So it won’t be 7/8 fights per day it doesn’t seem. Oh well, then I suppose you are going to be fine whatever the build. I mean, if you can afford to use all your elixirs ( by lvl 6 it would be 6 from lvl, +1 from familiar, +4 from int = 11 batches of infused reagents ) every 3 encounters, you'll be able to cover up for everything: - Mutagens for the whole party
The alchemist limited resources won't be an issue at all. ![]()
I am curious how the DM intent to deal with combat encounters, especially when some characters don't have armors during travelling ones. Talking about the champion, it's pretty common for them to have 10 dex ( and it's unlikable that they decided to put 14+ dex just in case they shipwrecked ). So, assuming a 10 dex champion and a hide armor ( given the fact there are leather ones, there should also be hide ones ), the character is going to have +3 AC vs +5 ( light/medium) or +6 ( heavy armor ). Having a shield raised will put you at the same level of a normal character without shield. During travelling encounters you will have no armor at all, ending up being critted frequently even by -1/-2 enemies. Forbidding a champion to use their armor would indirectly force them into putting points on DEX, renouncing to other important stats. I'd go this way: 1) I'd ask the DM to get the soulforger dedication, in order to manifest your armor asap when needed. This would allow the 2e Math to properly work during travelling encounters, and it would end up just being a tax feat ( one less feat for the character ), so the DM shouldn't be able to complain much. Try to let them notice that even a -1 is a huge debuff, and that being with -3/4/5/6 armor ( depends your build ) would mean being annihilated, being a frontliner 2) I'd ask the DM to come midterms and agree on a medium armor that only requires +1 DEX to work ( for example a chainmail ). This would allow you not to sacrifice too much stats ( you'd be able to start 18 str, 14 con/wis and 12 dex ). Just with this 2 things you'd be able to play in a somehow decent way ( good luck finding a sturdy shield I guess. I'd also try to point that out to your dm. It's not fun to make a shield build and learn after that you can't get a shield to make a proper use of your shieldblock and quick shield block features ). ![]()
GM DarkLightHitomi wrote:
Mind to explain a little more? ![]()
Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:
I expect the shaman to be a nature tradition spellcaster, but I also expect some differences depends the spirits they are more used to. Something like the barbarian instinct.
Also, it won't be any different from a wizard specializing in a magic school ( they are going to be arcane spellcasters, but more specialized towards a specific school ). ![]()
Consider you are a martial class, and because so trained in both simple and martial weapons ( you won't need the firearm expert feat ). Apart from that.... I have the feel this is going to work very well.
1) Reload
is IMO not good, regardless the character ( unable to move, starving for actions, no good use of skills, etc... ). A bow would allow you to save one action that could be used to several purposes ( also moving ) and it's free ( it would allow you to get a different dedication ), while using a xbow would allow you to make a proper use of running reload ( useful for get into position, ovoiding lesser covers from creatures, or even to disengage from close enemies ). Have you considered the archer dedication instead of the gunslinger one?
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DuckSuit wrote: I am sure this applies to Primal Foci as well, but they really, truly are almost entirely unrepresented among the published items apart from the Primeval Mistletoe. I agree ( or else it would negatively impact on mechanics for no reasons ). I mean, the player main concern is to be effective and efficient. It's no surprise that the difference between being able to access the focus by wearing a clothing or worning a jewelry is more efficient than holding a mistletoe. Same goes for holding a mistletoe and a weapon, compared to wielding a weapon and a shield ( for armor and shield block ), or even a weapon and a free hand ( for maneuvers, stances, battlemedicine, kits, etc... ). So, in the end, I think it does feel reasonable for it to be a player choice ( which might be towards flavor or towards meta/powercreep ). ![]()
Trixleby wrote:
I want to add that my concerns are more about trying to play the standard AP map in the way it is meant to be played, which means straight from the start to the end ( without exploiting with daily preparations ). Assuming a 7/8 fights per map and balanced amount of mutagens, healing elixirs and bombs, it's unlikely that an alchemist might be able to deal with everything ( even with 3x on healing items per batch by lvl 5 ). You might focus on getting just healing elixirs ( and the reach mutagen ) to just pass rounds after round using them though( stride + draw + activate ). Perpetual infusion also won't help in any way. By lvl 7 a character is going to have between 60 and 100 hp, and perpetual infusions would give you a lvl 1 item that could be drinked every 10 minutes. Imagine during the fight the alchemist wasting 3 actions to stride, quick alchemy ( perpetual infusion ), activate item ( let an ally drink it ), making them recovering 3.5 hp. If you don't want to be a spellcaster, maybe the medic dedication could come in handy, especially with the alchemist class ( if needed you'd be able to merge the stride with a battle medicine ). And by lvl 7 you'd be able to use it once per hour on an immune target. But again, this assuming the party would keep pushing even if the alchemist run out of resources ( you can easily do it with focus spells and scrolls as backup, although not with an alchemist ). ![]()
Healing bomb, along with debilitating bomb, are nice to see, but the suck up too many resources. Your party is also composed by two handed combatants ( inexorable iron and fighter), that won't be able to drink potions by themselves, and it's still not clear whether the eidolon might drink elixirs on its own or not ( though the summoner could drink the healing ones in their place). I think you'd probably find easier to rely on the witch archetype, getting life boost to help with healing during every combat, as well as a familiar and a couple of cantrip you could use to deal damage ( to save alchemical items if needed). You'd also be able to get some spells, and the possibility to use scrolls, staves and wands to heal your team members. So I'd go this way: Lvl 2 = witch dedication
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Gaulin wrote:
Worth mentioning that no one is forced to take those spells. Pushing towards powercreep is the way to simplify the content along with lowering the encounter difficulty ( like back in 3.0,3.5 and 1e ). It is efficient ( as it is getting a fighter over any other martial class) but it's not mandatory. And it would also negatively impact on your experience ( making a boss fight trivial is not a good thing IMO). |