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I'm fairly basic so Erastril warms my heart. Preaching the importance of family and community, coupled with a focus on practical skill learning is my jam. He's a "we're stronger together" type god I can get behind (at least his 2e version that doesn't specify a concrete view on what a nuclear family is).


Squiggit wrote:
A little bummed to hear the flamethrower is Rare, especially given that it was one of the items featured in the product description about their new alchemy options.

I personally wouldn't deny any alchemist trying to squeeze a little extra umph with official material (if only to see more alchemists at my table!), but yea it's a bummer that the item that rekindled my interest in alchemists could possibly be vetoed by a stingy dm. Luckily the rest of the items (and hopefully the new crafting rules) do seem to pump some juice into the class. Idk if it brings them up to the arbitrary power level in my head where the other classes are.....but they definitely sound more FUN with this stuff.


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Solidarity!!!


Cool stuff. Excited to full my loot tables!


Yea, alignment damage should just happen...at least that's how I handle it with a player's divine lance. Makes so many features work so much better and be less of a trap. Otherwise, there's never a reason to play evil champions or clerics outside of the rare, niche evil campaign.


Yea I'd just put a once per minute cool down on it or a d4 cooldown


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Truly inspiring. Kudos to Paizo and all the other developers for fighting the good fight!


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These people are Royalty! Truly inspiring news


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I see finesse builds when the player wants to be a switch hitter OR heavily invest in charisma or intelligence over damage


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Actually, I can add more. I'm running newbies through outlaws of alkenstar on foundry vtt. One made a catfolk cloistered cleric, another tried to make a leshy intelligence psychic (I convinced him to change to charisma), and after his psychic died that same player made a grippli frog instinct barbarian. In all instances I had to jump in and customize their stat arrays bc they were floundering learning the system and telling someone "you picked the wrong ancestry for this class" was not what I wanted to do in the slightest. I also didn't want their introduction after the beginner box to be floundering at landing spells or strikes bc they made the character they wanted to. In each instance, I made custom attributes that basically amounted to the errata change weeks before it dropped. Allowing the ancestry/class combo in your head to function with full efficacy so you can't make "wrong" decisions in char-gen is AOK in my book and only serves to make on-boarding and player enjoyment run smoother. It was the right call as far as I'm concerned looking at the change from the DM's seat


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I, for one, am more excited to make a a kobold dragon barbarian than I ever was before. That's as much as I can contribute this conversation. My pool of ancestry options for given classes increasing = net positive game change.


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In a game where saves can be a matter of life and death, the new free + free paradigm makes me finally consider ancestries with dex, wis, or con negatives. All in all a welcome errata


Ravingdork wrote:

I hear quite frequently that the witch class leaves a lot to be desired. What pitfalls do you perceive in the class, and what fixes would you apply given the opportunity?

Personally, I would simply add several new witch-only familiar abilities that make it more combat viable, remove the 1 hex per round limitation, and call it a day.

Completely agree; the only thing I would add is switching out phase familiar for cackle.


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Meh, I think the alignment system is working just fine as a quick reference of general behavior on a statblock. Outside of champion causes being locked from certain gods, I have no issues with it.


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Sizz Brightscale the fire kobold is patiently waiting to see what his updated mechanics look like......wake him up in late June or early July.


Just thought I'd reiterate my hope for animal companion barding that makes strength based companions more attractive. Even after the erata to nimble companions I don't think 6 damage is worth a whopping 2 AC in P2e. Honestly, the existing damage difference as well as the cost of keeping your companion barded should balance them to nimble ones. Otherwise, I don't think strength companions are sturdy enough to bring along considering the heavy feat investment required.

Whoops, misspelled barding in the title


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JiCi wrote:

A viable reason to use a wheelchair...

In a world where magic, alchemy and even clockwork technology can fix you back up, I... don't see much of a use to invest in a wheelchair as a PC. I can see it a temporary solution and mean of traversal, but with all that said, you're literally one spell or prosthetic away from walking again.

I kinda wish there would be something to do with a wheelchair after you can walk again. Did anyone turn theirs into a small chariot with an motor or animated axle or such?

I mean, what prevents me from playing an inventor who can walk, but decides to turn a wheelchair into a "poor man's speedster"... and fakes their disability to get stuff :P ?

I don't have anything against disable PCs (far from it), but this seems so niche, exclusive and situational that those items could use a more mainstream function.

Wanting your character to be in a wheelchair is viable enough. Adventurer George in a spider chair isn't beyond the pale in a world with elves and dragons.


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Prominent NPCs are great to have personalities for players to latch onto. Otherwise, the dm will inevitably do the work themselves with one off NPCs within the adventure, turning them into reoccurring characters or they'll create one whole cloth themselves. Adventure Zone wouldn't be the same without Garfield the deal warlock of Fantasy Costco.


Ezekieru wrote:

Honestly, I'm wondering when, and in what form, the previews for this book will be. Pretty sure we aren't getting a Paizo LIVE until next year due to the promotion and hiring situations, which will just leave 1 possible Paizo LIVE stream in January to showcase their rulebook before subscribers get their hands on the book in early February.

If not in the form of a stream, then what other form? News articles? Partnering with YouTubers? Paizo Blog posts?

I hope we do get to see some glimpses into this book soon, at least some kind of preview before everything slows down for Christmas.

I'm guessing they'll partner with some YouTubers a week or two out like they did for the last few books. Beyond that I'm not sure.


Ayyyyy! Nice cover. I'm chomping at the bit for Kineticist.


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Ooh boy. Treasure hunting underground with some political intrigue involved. Sign me up


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Getting a psychic ancestry with the kishrishi was pretty awesome. That was one of my few remaining desires for ancestries


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I will say the jiksta empire, the floating cities, and the cyclops empire hint at the setting having been edging toward that sort of magitech level before cataclysms pushed everything back technologically


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keftiu wrote:
WWHsmackdown wrote:
Saedar wrote:
Thinking about Eberron has again made me crave more magitech.
Eberron is one of my favorite super focused settings. Magic blends into industrialization in that setting, though; in Golarion, industrialization seems to be a response to certain areas lacking access to magic. Magitech seems a lot less prolific
Don’t mistake Alkenstar for everywhere! Arcadia especially has no problem with tech (air-powered firearms, giant outdoor elevators, huge factories) coexist with abundant magic, or even meet as one for things like Beast and skymetal guns.

Definitely, it's just not ubiquitous like it is in eberron. Eberron's whole thesis statement as a setting was that widespread access to magic would lead to it becoming a cog in industrialization and exploitative capitalism spurred by wartime innovation


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A darklands mega dungeon acting as the high level complement to abomination vaults would be pretty neat


Saedar wrote:
Thinking about Eberron has again made me crave more magitech.

Eberron is one of my favorite super focused settings. Magic blends into industrialization in that setting, though; in Golarion, industrialization seems to be a response to certain areas lacking access to magic. Magitech seems a lot less prolific


CaffeinatedNinja wrote:
WWHsmackdown wrote:
keftiu wrote:
Squiggit wrote:

I know it's not how Paizo likes to do things but I really want a way to make Int based medicine a thing.

Int is kind of a crusty stat already and it bugs me to no end that academic doctor is just not something Paizo thinks should exist.

Plus like... Alchemists? Investigators? It feels like they should be good at anatomy and stuff like that.

I've rallied against Wisdom as a bizarre umbrella stat longer than most of my friends have played tabletop; it's so strange that it's not only a Franken-hybrid of perception, piety, and willpower, but also arbitrarily covers certain fields of knowledge that are deemed to be "folksy." It's pretty insulting to say that those who understand medicine and nature aren't using their Intelligence!
Nah I'm good. I'd rather druids have nature skill keying off a key stat and clerics have religion keying off a key stat. I think that's well worth any weirdness
Oracles, Sorcerers, Bards, and half of Psychic would like to have a word...

That's fair. I'm a 5e immigrant, though. I really hated the wizard and rogue being better at religion than my cleric. Between the two I prefer p2e, but they could've just had stat swapping on a case by case basis as noted above. If you're going with the hammer approach over the scalpel, I prefer wisdom over intelligence


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S.L.Acker wrote:
There's also a lack of a true brute strength character, like Fezzik from the Princess Bride. Not a monk, not a barbarian, just a guy so huge and strong that he can impose his will via those means.

A fury barbarian with certain feats is just a non magical person with frightening levels of strength


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JiCi wrote:

Here's something worth asking for: more half-human heritages

We only have two... and I feel like there could be more. On the flip size, why only have half-human heritages? Are you telling me that gnomes and halflings can't mix or something XD ? Dude, half-goblin for halflings would be possible, come to think of it.

I think it's a recommendation in the half orc/ half elf ancestries that you can let the other half be not human


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keftiu wrote:
Squiggit wrote:

I know it's not how Paizo likes to do things but I really want a way to make Int based medicine a thing.

Int is kind of a crusty stat already and it bugs me to no end that academic doctor is just not something Paizo thinks should exist.

Plus like... Alchemists? Investigators? It feels like they should be good at anatomy and stuff like that.

I've rallied against Wisdom as a bizarre umbrella stat longer than most of my friends have played tabletop; it's so strange that it's not only a Franken-hybrid of perception, piety, and willpower, but also arbitrarily covers certain fields of knowledge that are deemed to be "folksy." It's pretty insulting to say that those who understand medicine and nature aren't using their Intelligence!

Nah I'm good. I'd rather druids have nature skill keying off a key stat and clerics have religion keying off a key stat. I think that's well worth any weirdness


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Gourmets of Golarion! Famous cooks and the dishes that made them such


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No wyvaren in impossible lands is discouraging but I could convince a dm to let me be a medium kobold. I could see them as a possibility in a drogon themed book of the dead style book


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I imagine mythic as a free archetype variant that opens up access to exclusive mythic archetypes. Maybe you only get them every four levels so you could only ever get 5 mythic feats including your dedication. This could maybe open up the feats to being more substantial in their effects. Just spit balling though


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I'd build a humble mushroom farmer. Probably a druid or a ranger.


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I dwarven highhelm ap that fends off a threat from the darklands or brokers peace with the orcs to marshall defences against the whispering tyrant would be some cool stuff! Id have fun with either but the latter seems really interesting bc the cultural enmity between the five kings mountains and the holds of belkzen being addressed and possibly amended for the sake of mutual defence would be really cool for a political intrigue campaign.


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Sign me up for kashrishi, nagaji, and vanara! Lots of ideas for characters


Deriven Firelion wrote:
Unicore wrote:

I don't really think anyone is going to convince Deriven on this one, even though I think he would love to be convinced. But his party's biggest challenge is multiple lower level enemies with AoE abilities. This situation is also very much the bane of a summoner and the summoner is never going to shine in these scenarios.

Many parties don't optimize in the same fashion as Deriven's party and thus find level +3 or level +4 monsters to be the unwinnable fights. A 14th dragon in an open city absolutely shredded my level 11 party of 4 because range and mobility are a killer when you can land devastating criticals and still move far enough away to require 2 actions from your enemies to get back in range.

Gesalt gives us their definition of class evaluations which I don't think match up with either Deriven's or my own. People will definitely look for different things. I tend to agree with Deriven about the serious issue the Summoner has with the action economy loss that happens with unconsciousness. Like Deriven, I, and the GMs I play with, very commonly fold encounters on top of each other when the alarm gets raised which can lead to lots of level -1,2 or even -3 enemies piling up on the PCs in a way where HP attrition makes it a rare encounter when a whole 10 round fight has gone by without a single PC hitting the floor. Most classes can bounce back up pretty quickly. The summoner really struggles with that, depending upon their positioning when they or their eidolon gets taken out. Especially when those lower level enemies have AoE damage that damages on a save.

The summoner gets 2 saves where both characters get the crit save on save effect which can certainly help with this issue at higher levels, but that is level 11 and then 15, and it is Fort and Will. Wonderful for avoiding negative effects, but not great from preventing a lot of chip damage getting through with reflex targeting attacks. I think the class probably does very, very well in PFS, and with GMs that really

...

Summoner is my go to necromancer for having an eidelon, undead companion and 3 top level animate dead spells ready (with the right feats). Likewise, any themed summoning build I think of is best served with the corresponding eidelon and summoning spells. You can further tweak this with mini fireballs on summoning spells/ summoning your eidelon and can boost the damage of both with the summoner focus cantrip. You may not agree, but for me, my preferred summoner in the system is the summoner class. You may not consider these to be "optimized builds" but paizo specifically made this a working play style as opposed to an optimized one


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Verzen wrote:
Perpdepog wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
Lollerabe wrote:
The line about the class being pretty good if it was released as it were concerns me a bit. That was not my impression whatsoever. Had it been released in its playtest version it would've been close to unplayable for me personally.

Same. I did not enjoy the class as presented, and I said as much in my feedback, plus the vast majority of Forum comments gave it bad reviews.

I'm curious about what ranges of specific feedback they received from the surveys.

You can only take forum comments as a datapoint so far. The number of people posting on the forums is relatively small, definitely less than the thousand-ot responses they got for the playtest, and when you factor in the fact that A, people are about three times more likely to complain about something to others than to praise it, and B, a lot of those comments are actually about a handful of issues that were discussed, debated, and repeated over and over, it wouldn't surprise me to find out the response to the kineticist was overall more positive than we on this forum might have assumed from the chatter.

I'm not saying the class hasn't got issues or that I'm glad they're roping it in for another round or so of polishing, just that there is almost definitely a discrepancy in our experience and that of the developers.

A lot of people who do the playtests though are also yes men and their votes are noise. They aren't hyper critical, so a lot of those responses probably praised paizo, since whatever paizo does is treated as gold rather than realizing paizo might make a mistake. That's another thing to look out for. Personally, I'd pay 70% of attention to the minority that criticizes to see what those criticisms are and the other 30% the praise who loved it.

Source?


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Deriven Firelion, it's perfectly ok if summoner is not your jam. There's 22 classes so some of them are bound to be duds for you. Starting a thread on the basis of "this is bad, prove me wrong" is either begging for disappointment or just a thinly veiled attempt to argue with people that liking the class is wrong.


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Sounds promising. Like others I hope for blast accuracy better than a cantrip but other than that I like everything I read


A believe Micheal Sayre talked about a homebrew method of equivalent gold costs for upgrading set dc items to current PC lvl. A codified subsystem for that in treasure vault would be nice.


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keftiu wrote:
WWHsmackdown wrote:

For my head cannon impossible lands party, there's a group of four.

First is an automaton inventor who is trying to reverse the bio-transference of it's remaining countrymen.
Second is a human gunslinger from alkenstar looking for a payday.
Third up is a flesheshwarp wellspring sorcerer sorcerer from the mana wastes who just wants to be the mother figure of her new quasi nuclear family.
Lastly is is a rhino lady from jalmeray looking to do her walkabout to gain deeper perspective of the world.
I like the Automaton a lot, and I'm a big fan of Fleshwarps... but your Impossible Lands party has nobody from Geb or Nex? :>

Just realized jiksta imperium was golden road. Hmmm I guess sub the inventor for a skelton fighter from Gebs eternal fight pit looking for challengers that actually have something to lose (their lives) in an effort to find worthier opponents


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For my head cannon impossible lands party, there's a group of four.
First is an automaton inventor who is trying to reverse the bio-transference of it's remaining countrymen.
Second is a human gunslinger from alkenstar looking for a payday.
Third up is a flesheshwarp wellspring sorcerer sorcerer from the mana wastes who just wants to be the mother figure of her new quasi nuclear family.
Lastly is is a rhino lady from jalmeray looking to do her walkabout to gain deeper perspective of the world.


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Buffs are better spent in tough fights where the delay of damaging action for the buff spell is worth the higher chance of landing damage and negating damage from the enemies. It's a "turn the tide" spell so it's better served for situations where that's necessary


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Hey if nixxing universal means stronger blasting then I say chuck it into the sun and be done with it. There's only one avatar and I don't need to be it


Unicore wrote:
WWHsmackdown wrote:
Yea fusion blast being scaled, gate agnostic, and low level seems like the most painless way to get the blasting a lot of people would want. Just gimme a lvl one power attack for my fire kineticist and I'll be quiet
Fusion blast scales better than power attack. It gets extra dice with each striking rune upgrade.

Yea I don't need it to be as good as fusion blast. Just more dice than a regular hit (like power attack) but still inferior to two strikes landing (like power attack). When I said scaled I really should have said balanced accordingly. That's all I really want from a kineticist as far as chunking boss health goes. Just a beefy two action activity would be enough for a lot of the single target crowd (imo).


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Yea fusion blast being scaled, gate agnostic, and low level seems like the most painless way to get the blasting a lot of people would want. Just gimme a lvl one power attack for my fire kineticist and I'll be quiet


My first instinct is a 3 slot caster that's either primal for communing with animistic spirits or divine for communing with ancestors. The core mechanic would be .....something, idk


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I'd like a blasty kineticist over a blasty fighter


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Squiggit wrote:
I can sort of see where some of the frustration is coming from. For a long time the mantra was "spellcasters have too many options to be able to focus on this, wait for a dedicated class like the kineticist" and now the kineticist is here and they're being told "why did you ever expect the kineticist to be good at this go play a wizard"

Couldn't describe it any better

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