In the right setting, a single scathing word can prove deadlier than a poisoned dagger. Behind the scenes of heroic battles and magical realms lies a seething underbelly of danger and deception. This world of intrigue holds endless possibilities for adventure, as heroes duel with words instead of steel, plot daring heists, and engage in battles of wills against relentless nemeses. A high-stakes game of shadows and secrets is yours to master—if you have the wits!
Whether the heroes are taming the blood-soaked back alleys of their favorite metropolis or jockeying for the queen's favor alongside highborn nobles, Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Intrigue is an invaluable companion to the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook. This imaginative tabletop game builds upon more than 10 years of system development and an Open Playtest featuring more than 50,000 gamers to create a cutting-edge RPG experience that brings the all-time best-selling set of fantasy rules into a new era.
Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Intrigue includes:
The vigilante, a new character class that lives two lives—that of an unassuming member of the community, and a cloaked crusader with his own agenda!
New archetypes for alchemists, bards, druids, hunters, inquisitors, investigators, mesmerists, rangers, rogues, slayers, spiritualists, and more!
New feats and magic items for characters of all sorts, granting mastery of street-smart combat, impenetrable disguises, and misdirection.
Dozens of spells to manipulate tense social settings, whether to reveal adversaries' secrets or hide the truth.
A complete system of influence, providing new goals and rewards to challenge players and link their fortunes to nonplayer characters and organizations.
Systems and advice to help Game Masters introduce a variety of new encounters into their games—daring heists, extended pursuits, and tense searches for buried secrets.
Rules for social combat and verbal duels, allowing characters to use words as weapons to sway hearts and humiliate foes.
... and much, much more!
ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-826-7
Other Resources: This product is also available on the following platforms:
Okay, let's get into Ultimate Intrigue! As the title implies, the purpose of this book is to help flesh out more subtle elements of the game: things like spreading rumors, rallying a crowd, stealing secrets, and other classic cloak-and-dagger stuff. I've used bits and pieces of it in previous campaigns, but read through it carefully (and incorporated a fair bit of it) for my current Curse of the Crimson Throne campaign, as that adventure path is designed around urban political strife. Boiled down to brass tacks, the book is a 256 page hardcover comprised of six chapters. The full-colour artwork is very strong throughout, and the cover is great (though Merisiel's legs are like three times longer than her torso!). There's a very short two-page introduction that summarises each chapter--which is what I'm going to do anyway.
Chapter 1 is "Classes" (60 pages). The big deal here is a new base case, the Vigilante. The concept is that the character has both a normal (social) identity and a masked identity, with certain class options only working while in the associated guise. There are also several safeguards to help keep anyone from figuring out that Bruce Wayne is really Batman. I have a Vigilante character in Pathfinder Society, and one of my players runs one in Curse of the Crimson Throne. I think the class is perfect for an urban campaign mostly set in a single city (especially with lots room for intrigue), but it doesn't work as well with the more traditional "travelling adventuring party" campaign. It's a bit too obvious when five newcomers arrive in town, only for one of them to "disappear" and a new costumed avenger show up. I know there are also some gamers who dislike what can seem like the awkward introduction of comic book super heroes into their fantasy role-playing. For me, I think the concept works well--though as I said, only in particular types of campaigns.
A large chunk of the chapter is devoted to new archetypes for other classes. More specifically, alchemists, bards, cavaliers, druids, inquisitors, investigators, mesmerists, rangers, rogues, skalds, spiritualists, swashbucklers, and vigilantes get some love. Frankly, a lot of the archetypes are fairly forgettable, but there are exceptions--for example, a Daring General Cavalier would be great in military campaigns, the Dandy Ranger could be really useful in an urban campaign, and a couple of the vigilante archetypes are perfect if you want to play the Hulk or Spider-Man. Although the rogue archetypes aren't very good, there are several excellent rogue talents that focus on making the character harder to track through divination, etc. It's worth nothing that this book came out during the period when the hardcover line was still setting-neutral, so there won't be any Golarion-specific flavour with the archetypes (for better or worse depending on your preferences).
Chapter 2 is "Feats" (24 pages). There's something like 110 new feats in the chapter, and probably something for everyone. Given the book's theme, many of the feats are related to sneaking around, hiding and disguising spells, stealing stuff, making plans, figuring out when you're being to lied to, etc. A few that I particularly like include Brilliant Planner (giving you the chance to have just what you need just when you need it), Call Truce (giving a slim chance to actually end combat peacefully when its underway), and Drunkard's Recovery (silly but fun). A couple of important feats are Conceal Spell (which hides the pesky manifestations that spells create in Pathfinder) and Fencing Grace (adding Dex to damage with rapiers, a favourite of swashbucklers everywhere). Overall, I thought the options presented were well-written and plausible in terms of desirability.
Chapter 3 is "Mastering Intrigue" (68 pages). This is probably the most important chapter in the book for GMs. It offers tons of useful advice, as well as clarification on some tricky game mechanics, to help run intrigue-based games. The pages about how common magic spells can be handled while still preserving mysteries, secrets, and misdirection is pure gold. The chapter also introduces seven new rules sub-systems, any or all of which can be incorporated into a campaign to flesh out certain aspects of gameplay. "Influence" is a sub-system that deepens the process of persuading a person or organisation to support you. Instead of a simple single Dipomacy check, PCs need to make certain skill checks to learn a person's interests and weaknesses, and then other skill checks to take advantage of what they've learned. The process operates through multiple phases of tracked successes and failures, and can be tied to mechanical favours and benefits. It's become a very popular facet of many Pathfinder Society scenarios, and I think it's a pretty clever way to handle things--though it can be a bit clunky at first. "Heists" is a sub-system that contains some excellent advice to GMs on how to structure things so players don't obsess over unimportant trivia and are willing to violate that old canard of "don't split the party." "Infiltration" contains some quick advice, but that's about it. "Leadership" deepens the feat of the same name, adding lots of rules for interacting with other sub-systems both in this book and in Ultimate Campaign. I'm personally still not persuaded that the Leadership feat chain is a good inclusion to the game. "Nemeses" is all about adding a recurring villain; I think it's trying to systematise something that could be handled just fine without it. Though there are some fun suggestions on evil plots to foil. "Pursuit" is a little like the Chase sub-system from the GameMastery Guide but stretched out over hours and days cross-country instead of in minutes through alleyways. I could imagine using it. "Research" is probably my favourite of the sub-systems, and one I've used in multiple campaigns. In essence, it gives the PCs a reason to use things like libraries and archives by giving them bonuses to their Knowledge checks, but then makes gaining different thresholds of information the result of multiple successful checks. Overall, a great chapter--I wish the Influence and Research sub-systems had been in the Core Rulebook, because they really add a lot to the non-combat aspects of the game.
Chapter 4 is "Social Combat" (25 pages). The idea here is to present GMs with options on how to handle social conflicts--things like debates, trials, cutting repartee, etc. There's also a "verbal duels" sub-system. I'm just not sure about it--it's something I'd have to see in practice. However, a really useful part of the chapter is advice to the GM on how to handle the various social skills in the game--Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Sense Motive--as well as the intrigue skills like Disguise, Perception, and Stealth. The advice here is excellent, and I just stopped in the middle of this review to reread it.
Chapter 5 is "Spells" (40 pages). You can judge from the length of the chapter that there's a ton of new spells, and every spellcasting class will find something. One of the fun things the chapter introduces is a new "ruse" descriptor for spells, which means the spell is easily mistaken for another even by observers trained in Spellcraft or Knowledge (arcana). It's a good way to mislead folks who have played way too much Pathfinder. There are some really clever spells in this section, with a couple of my favourites including false resurrection (instead of bringing back a soul, you stuff a demon into the body!) and the hilarious shamefully overdressed.
Chapter 6 is "Gear and Magic Items" (22 pages). There are some new mundane pieces of equipment (weapons like the cool wrist dart launcher, alchemical items, etc.) but most of the chapter is new magic items with an intrigue theme. The one that really stuck out at me was the launcher of distraction, which is perfect for assassination attempts because it makes it seem like the attack is coming from somewhere else.
Overall, I think Ultimate Intrigue is an excellent book. It's pretty much a must-have in my opinion for any campaign that's going to involve a lot of role-playing or that moves beyond traditional dungeon crawling and wilderness encounters. Even readers not involved in "intrigue campaigns" per se are sure to find plenty of material they can use.
Don't get me wrong I love Paizo books, I love their work, and I'm proud to own almost all of their publications.
However, Ultimate Intrigue is the one book I regret buying. It's even more than that, it's the one book i regret they ever published.
We need rules and systems, ok. We need a magic system because magic isn't a real thing. We need a combat system otherwise playing with your grilfriend become home abuse. But we don't need a social system because it's a ROLEPLAYING game. Either you want intrigue heavy campaign and you roleplay them, or you want to dungeon crawl or investigate (that's fine too) and you don't play intrigues. You can even do both and it's great.
Aside from that massive problem, the book suffers from "a turn normal actions into feats/class ability" syndrome. I can't count the number of time where players made me fighters to wizards or rogues with a dual identity. We didn't need the Vigilante, and still don't. And I loved when wizard use to get clever and ask for linguistics/bluff roll to blend a spell into a phrase. Now you need a feat for it. Thanks, Ultimate Intrigue. If that was not enough, some of these nonsense feat are built in feat tax chains.
But the one thing I hate the most about this book is the stupid FAQ it bestowed upon us to promote itself (https://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9tza). That makes a whole school of magic (illusion) utterly useless, and destroys a lot of others (enchantment).
Now I know I can just refuse to use it. But i use to love pathfinder for the clarity and perfect sense with out need to houserule much.
Now it's gone.
I'm tired of paizo trying to stuff this book down our face
If I was playing a home campaign this book might be more fitting,
For society play this verbal debate and other ideas for this book really bog down the game play. I like social aspect of games and role playing but as I said society play it slows the game way down to try and get people up to snuff on the mechanics
So, Ultimate Intrigue took a long time for me to come to a complete opinion on.
The Vigilante class introduced in this book is, in my opinion, easily the best non-spellcasting class Paizo has ever created. It breaks up its social options and combat options in such a way that you have a great character able to participate in all areas of the game without having to choose whether you want to be competent in combat or in the myriad other facets of the game like exploration, social encounters, etc. It has deep and well-designed talents that allow you to pick any of a variety of different ways to participate in combat, with or without weapons, and numerous tools for allowing players to influence the story with safe houses, contacts, and more.
At PAX Prime 2016 I had the opportunity to visit Paizo's Pathfinder demo area and play their pregenerated vigilante character. I honestly didn't expect it to go terribly well; after all, the vigilante is a class built around balancing two identities and moving between different social strata, so you'd think that this would require a more controlled environment where you know the other players in advance and have time to plan out how your character fits into the game world with your GM ahead of time, right? Turns out, I was wrong. The vigilante class is well-crafted enough that even while playing a 1st level pregen I was able to easily deal with situations in and out of combat, and it took me about 60 seconds of conversation to establish with the group that I had a secret identity they were privy to and might need them to cover for my character from time to time if he needed to swap identities. It didn't hurt matters that the only downside to anyone learning a vigilante's secret identity is that, well, they know his or her secret identity. You can go all Tony Stark if you want, announce that you are Iron Man, and carry on as normal. Very few of the vigilante's abilities actually require you to maintain truly secret identities, and the only real hit you take is that you're a bit easier to find by magical means (though even this can be addressed with clever use of the Safe House Social Talent).
The book also elaborates on the intent behind numerous spells that often prove problematic for GMs in games where they want to have a focus on gritty investigation of mystery, such as the various detect spells, speak with dead, etc.
I think my biggest disappointments with the book, and the reason I can't give it 5 stars, lie in the feats and archetypes. I'll start with the feats, and a bit about why I see most of them as representative of missed opportunities.
To start with, Pathfinder's skill system is heavily dated. When Paizo brought it over from 3.5, they combined a few extraneous skills, but otherwise did little to update things, meaning the core area of the rules covering everything in the game that isn't casting spells or hitting things is now well over a decade old and out of date. Several skills don't even actually work, or work well, as written, have interactions you're just supposed to kind of assume or make up (Ride and Handle Animal are a mess, Stealth requires one to check out FAQs and blog posts online to use as intended, Bluff and Diplomacy have more than a few vague areas and inconsistencies, etc.), so what better book to address, update, and expand these core components of the game than a book about playing skill and intrigue heavy campaigns? Unfortunately, Paizo chose not to go that route, instead relying on feats to stretch skills over their gaps and issues, leading to many of the feats in the this book providing skill uses that I've seen GMs at hundreds of tables houserule as basic functions of those skills to begin with. Instead of formalizing intuitive uses of existing skills into their basic function, they added a feat tax to allow characters to do things many people already thought they could do. While there is a section in the book going over several of the vague areas in a few key skills, these are primarily common sense clarifications instead of the full address the skills could have used.
The archetypes, like many Paizo hardcovers, are all over the place. Some of them are interesting and dynamic, like the Masked Performer bard archetype, some show an attempt at embodying a cool and modern concept but fail to achieve that concept in the actual execution, like the Magical Child vigilante archetype, and some are just plain bad, so obviously terribly designed that you almost wonder if the person who wrote them has ever actually played Pathfinder, like the Brute vigilante archetype.
Now, don't let the above wall of negativity mislead you; there is a lot of great stuff in this book, including perhaps the most inspired and well-crafted class Paizo has ever produced, a class that introduces really interesting design concepts, plays with components of the class chassis we haven't seen classes treat as quite so malleable before, and is a genuinely fun and interesting class to play in and of itself. Despite many of the feats ranging from useless to frustrating, there are still quite a few that are interesting and viable, and while the archetypes are very hit or miss, that's generally true of Paizo books in general and probably shouldn't be held against this one in particular.
My final verdict on Ultimate Intrigue is 4 stars, and a strong recommendation to pick it up, if for no other reason than to add the Vigilante class to your game (though there definitely are other reasons to add this book to your collection).
No seriously. The vigilante class is freaking batman. Look at the art for chapter one and for the character. HE'S BATMAN. Of course they also have archetypes if you want to make Hulk, Sailor Moon, even He-Man. With the archetypes from other books the list goes on.
My favorite part, and I cannot wait to test this properly in a game, is the social combat. It works a lot like playing craps or roulette. You get a pool of Determination points which you use to place a bet then you roll off with your social skills check! Seriously it sounds like lots of fun!
Thanks for the info on the new Fencing Grace. Makes me quite sad, personally. Rapier + Rapier with Effortless Lace should live on, forever!
I mean, I guess it helps to be consistent and disallow Dex to damage with extra attacks (Flurry or TWF) with URogue as an exception. I guess I'm just against that movement.
It only really bothers me for the swashbuckler, personally. Here you have what is supposed to be the ultimate Dex-based martial, and not only can it not use Dex to damage for all but a scarce few weapons (which what ought to be its inferior, the unchained rogue, can), but it is completely unable to use one of the most iconic swashbuckler weapon styles: two-weapon fighting.
Here's hoping that time will heal all wounds. :-)
In my opinion, the relative value of Trained Grace and Elven Battle Focus just increased significantly for a lot of Rapier builds. Some clever person thought to offer those options even before the Fencing Grace rewrite. ;)
Urushiol is the stuff that makes us not like poison ivy (amongst other plants); thus, as you can likely guess, it is a druid that focuses on poison, specifically naturally producing their own. They replace nature bond and resist nature's lure for the ability to produce a specific poison with a scaling DC, which they can apply to natural attacks, unarmed strikes, or melee weapons to begin with. As he advanced, he gains the ability to reactively release ingested poison when bitten or swallowed, use it as a touch attack contact poison, create a cloud of inhaled poison around himself, and finally the poison upgrades and can be modified to a minor extent. They also gain early access to venom immunity.
Urushiol is the stuff that makes us not like poison ivy (amongst other plants); thus, as you can likely guess, it is a druid that focuses on poison, specifically naturally producing their own. They replace nature bond and resist nature's lure for the ability to produce a specific poison with a scaling DC, which they can apply to natural attacks, unarmed strikes, or melee weapons to begin with. As he advanced, he gains the ability to reactively release ingested poison when bitten or swallowed, use it as a touch attack contact poison, create a cloud of inhaled poison around himself, and finally the poison upgrades and can be modified to a minor extent. They also gain early access to venom immunity.
Interesting, not my usual style but could find uses
Can someone tell more about the Zeitgeist Binder? I'd been hoping for some kind of City Loci channeling Medium, but the spiritualist archetype sounds interesting, too.
Still pouring over the book, but I wanted to stop and say that everyone involved has done an amazing job and this is easily my favorite non-CRB hardcover to date. In particular, thank you for finally nailing down (or at least providing a lot of guidance) on what "Interaction" means with regard to illusions.
Can someone tell more about the Zeitgeist Binder? I'd been hoping for some kind of City Loci channeling Medium, but the spiritualist archetype sounds interesting, too.
Spoiler:
The zeitgeist binder personifies a specific community, and is tied to either its corruption, crime, economy, law, lore, or society aspect, which must be positive for the community it represents. It can be called anywhere, but its specific bonuses are only relevant in its chosen community...so it's not a good choice for most games where you're doing a lot of traveling, but better if you're primarily sticking to a single city (ala Hell's Rebels). They replace detect undead, calm spirit, see invisibility, and call spirit with unique spell-like abilities depending on which aspect you picked (again, only useable in the settlement the zeitgeist represents), and replaces bonded senses and fused consciousness to to allow its zeitgeist to become a living avatar of its settlement and detect activities related to its aspect within 50 ft. per level, which requires a Perception check with a -10 penalty. This starts off being limited to rounds per level, but eventually becomes at-will and allows the zeitgeist and zeitgeist binder to get a free teamwork feat. Again, this all only applies within the settlement your zeitgeist embodies. Some very neat flavor, all in all, but not something useful to normal games, I think.
Arachnofiend wrote:
I'd love to get some insight into the heist rules. I'd love a high level module where you break into the Vault of Abadar...
Mmm...rather than rules, I'd say they're more like guidelines or advice that discuss how to build one, how to run one, likely tactics your players might use, as well as how to run an infiltration. It notes that in many ways, a heist reverses the usual order of things, since the players do the research and create the plan, thus effectively creating a plot that the DM and their NPCs react to, and that unlike a normal game it's quite normal to split the PCs up so they can each handle different events, and discusses some of the difficult aspects, such as group stealth or disguise, different ways players can aid others by creating diversions, etc. Also has a diagram to use to help a DM design a heist.
Yeah but most everyone on Golarion is bisexual unless otherwise stated, so that is not much of a limit.
This is not exactly true, to the best of my knowledge - I assume this is an extrapolation from the Jade Regent campaign traits. (Unless there's been a statement I don't know about, which is quite possible.)
I believe that Golarion has a similar range of sexual preferences to our own world, although the de-stigmatization of such identities results in a higher chance of open expression.
Yeah but most everyone on Golarion is bisexual unless otherwise stated, so that is not much of a limit.
This is not exactly true, to the best of my knowledge - I assume this is an extrapolation from the Jade Regent campaign traits. (Unless there's been a statement I don't know about, which is quite possible.)
I believe that Golarion has a similar range of sexual preferences to our own world, although the de-stigmatization of such identities results in a higher chance of open expression.
Somewhere someone at Paizo said that for mechanical reasons they should be treated as bi unless otherwise stated.
Yeah but most everyone on Golarion is bisexual unless otherwise stated, so that is not much of a limit.
This is not exactly true, to the best of my knowledge - I assume this is an extrapolation from the Jade Regent campaign traits. (Unless there's been a statement I don't know about, which is quite possible.)
I believe that Golarion has a similar range of sexual preferences to our own world, although the de-stigmatization of such identities results in a higher chance of open expression.
Somewhere someone at Paizo said that for mechanical reasons they should be treated as bi unless otherwise stated.
That definitely sounds like the Campaign trait.
Spoilered for Length:
Jade Regent Player's Guide wrote:
Childhood Crush: You’ve never had the guts to act on it,
but for as long as you can remember, you’ve had a crush
on one of the NPCs. Someday, maybe you’ll be able to earn
the NPC’s love, but for now, you’re content to spend time
in the NPC’s proximity, or even to do things for the NPC
that might earn you a word of thanks or a smile. Once per
day, you may attempt to earn a kind word or a smile from
the NPC whom you have a crush on by making a DC 15
Charisma check. If you’re successful, the elation and joy
at the attention gives you a +1 trait bonus on all saving
throws for the remainder of the day. If you’re ever lucky
enough to win the NPC’s love, this +1 trait bonus on saving
throws applies at all times, as long as your relationship
remains active. Note that gender isn’t an issue in the case
of these three NPCs. Unless your GM says otherwise, all
three of these NPCs are considered to be bisexual as far
as this trait’s implications are concerned. Note that if
you take this trait, you’ll likely want to coordinate NPC
choices with any other player who chooses this trait as
well, since choosing the same NPC could cause unwanted
party strife. Of course… if that’s what you and the other
player are looking for, go for it! In addition, you gain a +1
trait bonus on all attack rolls against foes that threaten
your crush. NPC Choices: Ameiko, Sandru, Shalelu.
Yeah but most everyone on Golarion is bisexual unless otherwise stated, so that is not much of a limit.
This is not exactly true, to the best of my knowledge - I assume this is an extrapolation from the Jade Regent campaign traits. (Unless there's been a statement I don't know about, which is quite possible.)
I believe that Golarion has a similar range of sexual preferences to our own world, although the de-stigmatization of such identities results in a higher chance of open expression.
Somewhere someone at Paizo said that for mechanical reasons they should be treated as bi unless otherwise stated.
That definitely sounds like the Campaign trait.
** spoiler omitted **
I believe James Jacobs clarified that here and here.
You can apparently also grab Avenger or Stalker on a Wildsoul.
So...Spider Man can have Full BAB if you want.
I'm in.
EDIT: Does it stack with Psychometrist? The gadget one? I'm suddenly curious how well you can really do Peter Parker.
No, both of them replace the vigilante talents you get at 2nd, 6th, 12th, and 18th. I guess you could try and convince your DM to be a little more flexible and lose 2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th, 10th, 12th, 16th, and 18th (so all but 20th), but as-written, can't do it.
No, both of them replace the vigilante talents you get at 2nd, 6th, 12th, and 18th. I guess you could try and convince your DM to be a little more flexible and lost 2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th, 10th, 12th, 16th, and 18th (so all but 20th), but as-written, can't do it.
Ah, well. Still very cool to have Spider Man as an available character option. Particularly with 6+Int skill ranks a level and Full BAB. That's just super shiny.
No, both of them replace the vigilante talents you get at 2nd, 6th, 12th, and 18th. I guess you could try and convince your DM to be a little more flexible and lose 2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th, 10th, 12th, 16th, and 18th (so all but 20th), but as-written, can't do it.
Ah, well. Still very cool to have Spider Man as an available character option. Particularly with 6+Int skill ranks a level and Full BAB. That's just super shiny.
Yeah, I'm already wanting to play an arachnid wildsoul vigilante. Closely matched by my desire to play a metamorph alchemist. Followed closely by in turn by my desire to play a dandy ranger, an eyebiter mesmerist, a fey trickster mesmerist, a magical child vigilante, and a vox mesmerist...shadow caller spiritualist is pretty neat too...
Does the Dandy ranger still get combat styles? What is the guild breaker ranger like?
What does the skinshaper druid do?
So far on my list to play from this book: Brute, Psychometrist, Warlock, Wildsoul, and Metamorph Alchemist, Tyrant ANti-Paladin, Grey Paladin Zeitgeist Binder Spiritualist.
What is the roof runner hunter and courtly hunter like? How about the Halucinist Ivestigator? Thought Eater Mesmerist?
Thank you to everyone sharing info, it's very helpful!
Does the Dandy ranger still get combat styles? What is the guild breaker ranger like?
The dandy still gets combat styles as far as I can see.
Guild Breaker:
The guild breaker ranger tweaks their list of class skills, get the option to take favored organizations instead of favored enemies, replace wild empathy the ability to use Survival to gather information in urban environments, but only about certain things, replace hunter's bond for bonuses when posing as a member of an organization and the ability to deceive truth-telling magic for such purposes, and replaces woodland stride for the ability to move through a crowd without slowing down.
jedi8187 wrote:
What does the skinshaper druid do?
Skinshaper:
Skinshapers slightly tweak their list of class skills, replace wild shape with the ability to use alter self at-will for an hour per level and gaining increasing bonuses while in another humanoid's shape, able to gain more of their abilities than the spell would normally allow, and trades out a thousand faces for the ability to swap forms as a swift action.
jedi8187 wrote:
What is the roof runner hunter and courtly hunter like? How about the Halucinist Ivestigator? Thought Eater Mesmerist?
Courtly Hunter:
The courtly hunter tweaks their list of class skills, and their animal companion is as intelligent as a familiar, but doesn't stack with other sources of animal companions, they lose access to bear/bull/frog/monkey/snake/stag/tiger/wolf aspects in favor of a new set (beaver/chameleon/eagle/fox/frilled lizard/octopus/raccoon/songbird), lose precise companion to allow them to transform their animal companion into a similar Tiny animal (such as a tiger into a cat), lose hunter tactics and hunter teamwork feats to allow the animal companion to gain the hunter's class skills as its class skills and to allow it to use the hunter's ranks in place of its own if that would result in a better outcome, and bonus tricks are lost in favor of gaining more possible Tiny animal shapes that don't have to be related to the original.
Roof Runner:
The roof runner trades medium armor and shield proficiency in favor of more class skills, track for a scaling bonus on Acrobatics checks to jump, woodland stride to allow the roof runner and her animal companion to move at full speed without penalty on narrow or uneven surfaces and climb at half speed without penalty, swift tracker for the fast stealth rogue talent, and alters master hunter so that instead of being able to move at full speed while tracking, they get a climb speed equal to their land speed.
Hallucinist:
Hallucinist uses magical drugs to open their mind, and trade trapfinding, trap sense, and four investigator talents to be able to create a magical hallucinogen that grants low-light vision and a scaling bonus to perception, at the cost of some Dexterity, which later grants see invisibility and darkvision, then aura sight, then blindsense. They trade poison lore for drug lore, which allows them to identify and neutralize drugs and can avoid accidentally drugging themselves when examining or neutralizing a drug, trade poison resistance/immunity for drug resistance/immunity, trade keen recollection and two investigator talents for the ability to share and manipulate his hallucinations, usually requiring concentration, and gains the ability to maintain studied combat against a scaling number of opponents at once while under their magical hallucinogen.
Thought Eater:
The thought eater mesmerist specializes in devouring the minds of others and appearing as their victims. They replace consummate liar with the ability to gain a scaling Disguise bonus on the last person he used his hypnotic stare on for 24 hours or until they use their stare on someone new, trade towering ego for the ability to detect as the alignment of the individual they last used their hypnotic stare on, trades touch treatment to be able to use the ranks of one Knowledge skill of the person they last used their hypnotic stare on, and trades rule minds for the ability to completely consume the target of their hypnotic stare after killing them, body, mind, and soul, which makes their body dissolve and they can't be brought back until after the mesmerist either releases the body or uses their hypnotic stare on someone new, barring the usual use of a wish or miracle (which ends the effect), and any divination spell that isn't discern location identifies him as the person he devoured; discern location shows the location of either the mesmerist or the individual he devoured as being the mesmerist's.
What can the new rogue archetypes and talents do? (Sorry if this has been already answered.)
The archetype of most interest was one that gave you inspiration to use on skills only, allowing you access to some of the "inspiration is now free for X skills" Investigator talents. Good if you like Investigator, but don't like the wait until fourth for combat abilities. Puts Rogue back at the top of the skill game.
Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
KaveDweller1349 wrote:
Can I get some information on the Alchemical Sapper and Interrogator Alchemist Archetypes?
Alchemical Sapper:
Loses 1 extract per day per level in return for becoming an explosives expert with delayed bombs and demolition bombs (which ignore 1/2 alchemist level hardness and do double damage) at 1st level and no mutagen until 8th. Gains Knowledge (engineering) and Stealth as class skills. Is really good at building, disabling, and using traps (although he doesn't get to disable magic traps like a rogue).
Interrogator:
Uses injections (replaces bombs) to soften up subjects to pull information from them (-2 on Will saves) and gets serums that can be added to injections instead of a mutagen. These serums make it easier to pull info with Charm, Hypnosis, Truth, Compliance, etc. effects depending on which serum selected. Adds Intimidate and Sense Motive as class skills.
Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Wyrmfoe wrote:
On the Rogue archetype that gets Inspiration...
What is the name of this Rogue archetype?
What Rogue class abilities get swapped out for the new powers?
Is access to the Investigator Talents as a Rogue Talent, at the usual levels?
Which Investigator Talents are available?
Snoop:
Underworld information peddlers.
Gains inspiration (1/2 rogue level + Int modifier pool) that can only be used on skill rolls. Replaces trapfinding and evasion
Can choose to select Investigator Talents whenever a Rogue Talent could be selected, but is limited to eidetic recollection, empathy, hidden agendas, inspired alertness, inspired intimidator, item lore, or underworld inspiration. If one of these talents allows use of Inspiration for something other than a skill roll, that part remains unavailable (she can’t use the second part of hidden agendas for example).
Uncanny Snoop replaces Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge with a bonus of +2 to Intimidate rolls to get info from opponents. Goes to +4 at 8th level.
Master of Whispers gives the rogue the rumormonger advanced rogue talent at 8th level in place of the rogue talent normally taken there.
Oh man I hadn't realized this was out to subscribers yet! We worked really hard on this book and it's such a treat to see it out in the wild now. Extremely huge kudos to Mark Seifter for picking up the ball of the zeitgeist binder for me. I'd come up with the idea when we were brainstorming archetypes and originally meant to include that with the other spiritualist archetypes I designed, but I just couldn't think of a way to get the primary feature to work without eating all my allocated space. Mark didn't let the idea die, however, and built an awesome archetype out of it that I'm thrilled with the outcome of!
There's a lot of cool stuff in this book and I can't wait to see what everyone does with it!
Oh man I hadn't realized this was out to subscribers yet! We worked really hard on this book and it's such a treat to see it out in the wild now. Extremely huge kudos to Mark Seofter for picking up the ball of the zeitgeist binder for me. I'd come up with the idea when we were brainstorming archetypes and originally meant to include that with the other spiritualist archetypes I designed, but I just couldn't think of a way to get the primary feature to work without eating all my allocated space. Mark didn't let the idea die, however, and built an awesome archetype out of it that I'm thrilled with the outcome of!
There's a lot of cool stuff in this book and I can't wait to see what everyone does with it!
Argh! Waiting for Paizo products to go on sale to non-subscribers is like waiting for Christmas morning as a kid... except it happens multiple times a year!
Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
That is why I had mixed feelings when my FLGS closed. On the one hand, I no longer have a game store where I can go and look for gems that I may not have fully appreciated from their ads. On the other hand, I can now get subscriptions for things I previously would have bought there with a clear conscience.
Argh! Waiting for Paizo products to go on sale to non-subscribers is like waiting for Christmas morning as a kid... except it happens multiple times a year!
I know! And my group is waiting to start Hell's Rebels and Hell's Vengeance until we've got this!
Argh! Waiting for Paizo products to go on sale to non-subscribers is like waiting for Christmas morning as a kid... except it happens multiple times a year!
I know! And my group is waiting to start Hell's Rebels and Hell's Vengeance until we've got this!
I kind of wish mine had. I'm playing a playtest vigilante that won't quite work under the new way, so DM's making changes to keep my character concept in tact. At least 2 of the archetypes would be relevant for a player in one of the groups (Phantom Thief for our house Jarvis Rogue in Rebels, and Thought Stealer for the Vengeance Mesmerist), and the monk may be inclined towards the black asp archetype.
While I'm here:
What does the Phantom Thief gain? What does it give up? Is it compatible with Unchained Rogue?
Argh! Waiting for Paizo products to go on sale to non-subscribers is like waiting for Christmas morning as a kid... except it happens multiple times a year!
I know! And my group is waiting to start Hell's Rebels and Hell's Vengeance until we've got this!
I kind of wish mine had. I'm playing a playtest vigilante that won't quite work under the new way, so DM's making changes to keep my character concept in tact. At least 2 of the archetypes would be relevant for a player in one of the groups (Phantom Thief for our house Jarvis Rogue in Rebels, and Thought Stealer for the Vengeance Mesmerist), and the monk may be inclined towards the black asp archetype.
While I'm here:
What does the Phantom Thief gain? What does it give up? Is it compatible with Unchained Rogue?
Same questions for the Black Asp Monk?
Phantom Thief:
Phantom thieves trade sneak attack, trapfinding, and in the cast of unchained rogues, debilitating injury for a bunch of extra class skills and a scaling bonus to an increasing number of selected skills; if they're an unchained Rogue, they also get skill unlocks with all of the selected skills and count as having more skill ranks for what benefits they receive from the skill unlocks. They can select combat trick, minor magic, and major magic as many times as they want, and can also select Skill Focus or a vigilante social talent as a wild talent. They trade trap sense for a scaling bonus on Sense Motive checks to avoid being surprised, Bluff checks to surprise a foe, and on initiative checks for surprise rounds that involved Bluff and Sense Motive to determine surprise. Finally, they trade master strike to reroll any skill check as long as it's a class skill in which they're trained once a minute.
To be fair, RP's stance is pretty much identical to what James Jacobs/Paizo's stance has been up to this point.
I find it strange how other classes are allowed to have archetypes that changes the concept but somehow if you make a paladin archetype that makes it not the horrible cliche they're not real paladins.
Sure you can! Just call it something else. Note that Tyrant is in the same book and I haven't had a peep of complaint about that; in fact I'm rather excited. Had they cribbed Unearthed Arcana and called it "paladin of tyranny," though, I'd have blown a gasket. :P Antipaladin is a ham-handed design (there should be more to a champion of Evil than just inverting the paladin, if nothing else because offensive abilities and inflicting status effects are inherently more powerful than cures and removing status effects), but that's a separate problem.
The problem is that words have meanings, and titles especially do. You don't call any schlub who took a first aid course Doctor, you don't call a county councilman Senator, and you don't call some random guy with a sword out for himself a paladin or a knight (and if the setting you're playing in is a chivalric and aristocratic society, heaven help you if you called him Sir). If you want a CG-aligned champion of freedom class, Liberator or something would be appropriate, and I would totally play one, especially if it had abilities that appropriately reflect championing freedom rather than a direct port of the paladin's skill set. But if you start calling any champion class of every alignment "paladin of X," the word ceases to have meaning, or at least meaning beyond "can smite people he disagrees with."
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