Observation: Despite the attempt, it is quite clear Paizo has made no head way on making the class less contentious.
To those saying these abilities don't make sense for *insert deity*, you are absolutely right. Which is the very reason the class should not be built from the ground up as one alignment. Build it with all alignments so that the feat choices, or even one given, vary based on your alignment. Like how the new cleric's channel is based of deity entry not alignment. By building for one, you automatically make the others more difficult to pursue later. They are removing options this way.
"Would you tell LG only fans to go away", yes because they are telling me to. My version of the paladin includes yours, so we can both be happy, your version shuts out options I want to use, thus shutting me out. One way is all inclusive except for those who are super fanatical about their way only, while another is very exclusive. Guess which is better for newer players, a stated goal of this edition.
War Priest is my conceit so it doesn't undermine it. They had to introduce a new class, or classes if you include anti-paladin, and archetypes to cover these ideas because the base version was too limiting to allow them. That's my whole point.
If they were adding War Priest to core I would be fine. But they aren't at the moment, and since the Paladin is still tied to faith alongside it's alignment I'd wager they aren't planning on doing it soon. So yes I want them to make the base version more open, instead of waiting half a decade to be able to play my CG champion of *insert CG deity*.
I'm disappointed this is being built from the ground up as the same old same old. It will make it harder to expand if you decide to open it up (which I very much hope you do)
Why can only LN, LG, and NG deities have champion warriors of their faith? If you are going to have paladins as champions of the faith they need to be open to all or most deities. If you want them to be the knight in shining armor archetype drop the champion of faith aspect. This is why the War Priest was created in first edition.
Second edition is a chance to look back and make new decisions where they are needed. This is a case where I think you should go a different direction, because nothing has changed and Paladins will continue to be a divisive topic for the next decade. Which is a shame cause I like the mechanics, but might want to push more neutral or even chaotic good.
I should have checked the original poster's name before clicking this thread. Another "it's not what I want, so it's bad" idea.
Alchemist has been said to have been one of the most popular classes in the game. It's also one of the most unique (I don't really count hybrid for this cause those classes are by nature mash ups, despite the outcome). And finally it's the class with the biggest need of a redesign. Not from a power perspective, but the PF1 alchemist is a creation of putting a square peg in a round hole. Making it core gave them a reason to make the hole square.
But maybe it's my player bias, as I like the class. Just like your bias that it shouldn't be core because it isn't "classical" enough.
Alchemist has always been one of my favorite PF classes. I'm disappointed about losing elixirs, but I understand. Maybe there is a way we can still make potion/potion like things. I'm very nervous about mutagen being delayed so long. I prefer melee builds, and loved the idea of the meek scientist turning huge to pound face. Hopefully there is a archetype that pushes mutagen forward in trade for delaying bombs/poisons or something.
I want alignment neutral paladin/paragon/whatever with abilities tied to their god/code. With LG being one of those options. But I also want to play the divine holy warrior fighting an evil tyranical government without having to stop and debate if breaking the law is a problem or not (imo it shouldn't be, but for some it is). I love the idea of a divine champion of a god or ideal, but find the LG only thing restrictive.
I'm very excited for alchemist in core.
Since core is settled things I hope to see soon: Magus, Kineticist, Vigilante, and Bloodrager. Also something with the flavor of the warlock, if not the mechanics (since Kineticist kinda covered that)
I would like to see the Paladin take cues from the Warpriest and be more open, with the standard LG variant still achievable as an archetype or such. As well as incorporating other advancements and evolutions of concepts from the core class.
I like paladins as the ultimate warrior of a god or ideal. So codes like 5E or the diety based ones of PF. Because those concepts (and the LG only paladin could fall into the ultimate warrior of the ideal of good/justice) are too fruitful for ideas to be restricted to one interpretation.
This seems interesting. I have a few questions if someone would be so kind as to answer
What is the Seeker of Enlightenment like?
What does the Totemic Channeler do?
What is the Order of the Monument?
How does the Elemental combat style work?
What are the investigator talents like?
I will also echo the request for more info on the Vigilante talents. THank you in advance.
That Sean fellow wrote:
I'm fairly certain we will get new foci as more supplements come out. Which reminds me the new animal foci in this book for the shifter, does the Hunter get access to them? Would be easy enough to adapt them for the hunter if not?
I wish there was a rhino aspect that gave 2/4/6 natural enhanvement bonus to AC. Then i could emu late The Rhino from Spiderman!
My favorite animal is the rhino so I fully support this idea.
I wish there were at least one aquatic option for the shifter. With Ruins of Azlant and a general aquatic focus recently it would have been nice to get more than frog.
In general still looking forward to the shifter, since I play at home making the common sense thing to make workable aren't hard. And as the only player in my group with an eye toward optiization having something that's a little lower but still cool story is a good option for me personally. And even if it isn't what I wanted exactly I still see potential in what it is (without having the book).
This book sounds really fun. Lot of cool things. Hag bloodline bloodrager, the ivetigator archetype and spiritualist archetype seem cool, and I'm always up for more sub races of half humans.
Is the kineticist archetype compatible with kinetic knight by chance?
Also any of the subraces get a strength bonus?
I'm going to throw my voices in with the crowd saying it's too early. We have what two or three actual reports on playing these classes, two of which said the Solarion worked fine and provided well for the team. Meanwhile the negative comments appear to all be theoretical and basing off playing like Pathfinder. The book isn't even on shelves yet. Let's slow the roll and actually try stuff before screaming the sky is falling. There's a reason we aren't putting together guides yet for how to play each class: we need time to actually test stuff.
Yeah my group spent a little over a year and only got half way through Hell's Rebels since people were moving. We meet weekly, but can only manage around 2 hour sessions. 2 months a book is fine by me.
In general I get why they are taking it slow, and appreciate it since my wallet is already taxed as is.
I like gathering power while moving. There were plenty of time my kinetic knight wanted to gather power and needed just a few feat of movement to get in range to hit with the whip. I would have taken it in a heartbeat.
The rest of the stuff sound cool. I was leaning towards getting this, now I most certainly will.
Also Champion based medium and occultists using that one martial focused panoply I forget the name of.