In the right setting, a single scathing word can prove deadlier than a poisoned dagger. Behind the scenes of heroic battles and magical realms lies a seething underbelly of danger and deception. This world of intrigue holds endless possibilities for adventure, as heroes duel with words instead of steel, plot daring heists, and engage in battles of wills against relentless nemeses. A high-stakes game of shadows and secrets is yours to master—if you have the wits!
Whether the heroes are taming the blood-soaked back alleys of their favorite metropolis or jockeying for the queen's favor alongside highborn nobles, Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Intrigue is an invaluable companion to the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook. This imaginative tabletop game builds upon more than 10 years of system development and an Open Playtest featuring more than 50,000 gamers to create a cutting-edge RPG experience that brings the all-time best-selling set of fantasy rules into a new era.
Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Intrigue includes:
The vigilante, a new character class that lives two lives—that of an unassuming member of the community, and a cloaked crusader with his own agenda!
New archetypes for alchemists, bards, druids, hunters, inquisitors, investigators, mesmerists, rangers, rogues, slayers, spiritualists, and more!
New feats and magic items for characters of all sorts, granting mastery of street-smart combat, impenetrable disguises, and misdirection.
Dozens of spells to manipulate tense social settings, whether to reveal adversaries' secrets or hide the truth.
A complete system of influence, providing new goals and rewards to challenge players and link their fortunes to nonplayer characters and organizations.
Systems and advice to help Game Masters introduce a variety of new encounters into their games—daring heists, extended pursuits, and tense searches for buried secrets.
Rules for social combat and verbal duels, allowing characters to use words as weapons to sway hearts and humiliate foes.
Don't get me wrong I love Paizo books, I love their work, and I'm proud to own almost all of their publications.
However, Ultimate Intrigue is the one book I regret buying. It's even more than that, it's the one book i regret they ever published.
We need rules and systems, ok. We need a magic system because magic isn't a real thing. We need a combat system otherwise playing with your grilfriend become home abuse. But we don't need a social system because it's a ROLEPLAYING game. Either you want intrigue heavy campaign and you roleplay them, or you want to dungeon crawl or investigate (that's fine too) and you don't play intrigues. You can even do both and it's great.
Aside from that massive problem, the book suffers from "a turn normal actions into feats/class ability" syndrome. I can't count the number of time where players made me fighters to wizards or rogues with a dual identity. We didn't need the Vigilante, and still don't. And I loved when wizard use to get clever and ask for linguistics/bluff roll to blend a spell into a phrase. Now you need a feat for it. Thanks, Ultimate Intrigue. If that was not enough, some of these nonsense feat are built in feat tax chains.
But the one thing I hate the most about this book is the stupid FAQ it bestowed upon us to promote itself (https://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9tza). That makes a whole school of magic (illusion) utterly useless, and destroys a lot of others (enchantment).
Now I know I can just refuse to use it. But i use to love pathfinder for the clarity and perfect sense with out need to houserule much.
Now it's gone.
I'm tired of paizo trying to stuff this book down our face
If I was playing a home campaign this book might be more fitting,
For society play this verbal debate and other ideas for this book really bog down the game play. I like social aspect of games and role playing but as I said society play it slows the game way down to try and get people up to snuff on the mechanics
So, Ultimate Intrigue took a long time for me to come to a complete opinion on.
The Vigilante class introduced in this book is, in my opinion, easily the best non-spellcasting class Paizo has ever created. It breaks up its social options and combat options in such a way that you have a great character able to participate in all areas of the game without having to choose whether you want to be competent in combat or in the myriad other facets of the game like exploration, social encounters, etc. It has deep and well-designed talents that allow you to pick any of a variety of different ways to participate in combat, with or without weapons, and numerous tools for allowing players to influence the story with safe houses, contacts, and more.
At PAX Prime 2016 I had the opportunity to visit Paizo's Pathfinder demo area and play their pregenerated vigilante character. I honestly didn't expect it to go terribly well; after all, the vigilante is a class built around balancing two identities and moving between different social strata, so you'd think that this would require a more controlled environment where you know the other players in advance and have time to plan out how your character fits into the game world with your GM ahead of time, right? Turns out, I was wrong. The vigilante class is well-crafted enough that even while playing a 1st level pregen I was able to easily deal with situations in and out of combat, and it took me about 60 seconds of conversation to establish with the group that I had a secret identity they were privy to and might need them to cover for my character from time to time if he needed to swap identities. It didn't hurt matters that the only downside to anyone learning a vigilante's secret identity is that, well, they know his or her secret identity. You can go all Tony Stark if you want, announce that you are Iron Man, and carry on as normal. Very few of the vigilante's abilities actually require you to maintain truly secret identities, and the only real hit you take is that you're a bit easier to find by magical means (though even this can be addressed with clever use of the Safe House Social Talent).
The book also elaborates on the intent behind numerous spells that often prove problematic for GMs in games where they want to have a focus on gritty investigation of mystery, such as the various detect spells, speak with dead, etc.
I think my biggest disappointments with the book, and the reason I can't give it 5 stars, lie in the feats and archetypes. I'll start with the feats, and a bit about why I see most of them as representative of missed opportunities.
To start with, Pathfinder's skill system is heavily dated. When Paizo brought it over from 3.5, they combined a few extraneous skills, but otherwise did little to update things, meaning the core area of the rules covering everything in the game that isn't casting spells or hitting things is now well over a decade old and out of date. Several skills don't even actually work, or work well, as written, have interactions you're just supposed to kind of assume or make up (Ride and Handle Animal are a mess, Stealth requires one to check out FAQs and blog posts online to use as intended, Bluff and Diplomacy have more than a few vague areas and inconsistencies, etc.), so what better book to address, update, and expand these core components of the game than a book about playing skill and intrigue heavy campaigns? Unfortunately, Paizo chose not to go that route, instead relying on feats to stretch skills over their gaps and issues, leading to many of the feats in the this book providing skill uses that I've seen GMs at hundreds of tables houserule as basic functions of those skills to begin with. Instead of formalizing intuitive uses of existing skills into their basic function, they added a feat tax to allow characters to do things many people already thought they could do. While there is a section in the book going over several of the vague areas in a few key skills, these are primarily common sense clarifications instead of the full address the skills could have used.
The archetypes, like many Paizo hardcovers, are all over the place. Some of them are interesting and dynamic, like the Masked Performer bard archetype, some show an attempt at embodying a cool and modern concept but fail to achieve that concept in the actual execution, like the Magical Child vigilante archetype, and some are just plain bad, so obviously terribly designed that you almost wonder if the person who wrote them has ever actually played Pathfinder, like the Brute vigilante archetype.
Now, don't let the above wall of negativity mislead you; there is a lot of great stuff in this book, including perhaps the most inspired and well-crafted class Paizo has ever produced, a class that introduces really interesting design concepts, plays with components of the class chassis we haven't seen classes treat as quite so malleable before, and is a genuinely fun and interesting class to play in and of itself. Despite many of the feats ranging from useless to frustrating, there are still quite a few that are interesting and viable, and while the archetypes are very hit or miss, that's generally true of Paizo books in general and probably shouldn't be held against this one in particular.
My final verdict on Ultimate Intrigue is 4 stars, and a strong recommendation to pick it up, if for no other reason than to add the Vigilante class to your game (though there definitely are other reasons to add this book to your collection).
No seriously. The vigilante class is freaking batman. Look at the art for chapter one and for the character. HE'S BATMAN. Of course they also have archetypes if you want to make Hulk, Sailor Moon, even He-Man. With the archetypes from other books the list goes on.
My favorite part, and I cannot wait to test this properly in a game, is the social combat. It works a lot like playing craps or roulette. You get a pool of Determination points which you use to place a bet then you roll off with your social skills check! Seriously it sounds like lots of fun!
There is really a good amount of cool things in here like the vigilante evne thought i dont like the dual identity system. it feels like a better fighter, which is something i've wanted for a while. but the problem is there's too many rules for things that didnt really need them, so it kind of drags down everything because of it. Some clarification is okay, but this was too much of putting rules on things that didn't need it for me.
Sliding Dash seems interesting, especially with how Weapon Masters Handbook gave a style that allowed a 10 ft step. I'm assuming Fox style has something to do with int, and Owl has something to do with Wis. Martial Dominance sounds like it has to be awesome. Improved Bravery sounds like it is really awful, or it could be really amazing, and I'm judging entirely on the fighter class feature Bravery.
Ugh I hate reprints. I mean they are very rare in Pathfinder products, of that I am thankful of, but it still irks me to see them.
On a personal level, I prefer a pick-up (which isn't necessarily a straight reprint, and isn't here) of an old non-RPG line rule (I think that was from the first Player Companion using the PFRPG rules) rather than making a new one that's almost the same with a different name.
Aha! So some detective work on the glossary shared earlier tells me that "Unshakable" is actually a class feature of the new vigilante.
Anyone have spoilers to share about that? Let's start with what level it's gained at?
I'm with you on that. Outside of player companions, I mainly stick to the setting-neutral books, so it's always nice when previously Golarion specific things find their way in. Makes it much easier to incorporate those options into my own campaign setting.
Sliding Dash seems interesting, especially with how Weapon Masters Handbook gave a style that allowed a 10 ft step. I'm assuming Fox style has something to do with int, and Owl has something to do with Wis. Martial Dominance sounds like it has to be awesome. Improved Bravery sounds like it is really awful, or it could be really amazing, and I'm judging entirely on the fighter class feature Bravery.
Spoiler:
Entreating Critical lets you attempt a Diplomacy check as an immediate action after confirming a critical hit to attempt to cease combat for a minute.
Fox Style lets you use your BAB in place of your ranks in Bluff to feint in combat and create a distraction to hide, and follow-up feats let you use your BAB in place of Sense Motive to defend against feinting, make it so larger creatures don't get a bonus on Intimidate checks against you, and let you use dirty trick maneuvers as attacks of opportunity.
I don't see a Graceful Combat feat; do you mean Graceful Steal (Combat)?
Improved Bravery makes bravery's bonus count against all mind-affecting effects instead of just fear.
Lightning Draw is a swashbuckler feat that lets them draw light or one-handed piercing weapons even if they're hidden when you roll initiative by spending panache. If you have the new instant unveil deed, you don't have to spend panache, and can spend panache to draw a weapon as above as an immediate action in response to being attacked.
Martial Dominance lets you use your BAB in place of your ranks in Intimidate for determining your bonus, and when you confirm a critical get to demoralize as an immediate action.
Owl Style lets you subsitute your BAB for your ranks in Stealth and let you take a penalty to charge while still sneaking, and if your target doesn't notice you, they're flat-footed against all your strikes at the end of the charge instead of just the first. The others let you substitute BAB for Acrobatics checks and can charge while using Acrobatics to balance on narrow/slick surfaces and avoid attacks of opportunity, and substitute BAB for Fly checks and can charge through spaces containing other enemies with a successful Acrobatics check.
Sliding Dash lets you charge to somewhere that isn't the closest space in which you can attack them, but still somewhere you can attack them, with a successful Acrobatics check and treat them as flanked for the first attack.
Street Style can only be used in urban areas, and allows you to deal extra damage and bull rush enemies you hit with an unarmed strike as a swift action once a round. The others let you knock prone and stagger someone if you punch them after bull rushing them, and increase your crit multiplier to x3 with unarmed strikes.
Athel wrote:
Aha! So some detective work on the glossary shared earlier tells me that "Unshakable" is actually a class feature of the new vigilante.
Anyone have spoilers to share about that?
Unshakable makes it harder to use Intimidate against the vigilante.
Pathfinder Companion, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Milo v3 wrote:
What's a code runner?
A ranger archetype.
...what?
...fine, okay, they're couriers trained to carry secret messages. They tweak their class skills, trade wild empathy for the ability to memorize words perfectly even without understanding them via Linguistics, and trade hunter's bond for the ability to resist and later on fool divination spells.
KaveDweller1349 wrote:
Can I get a description of the Monk Archetypes? Also, can they be used with the Unchained Monk?
Black asps are sinister assassin monks. They trade stunning fist and still mind for poison use and Adder Strike as a bonus feat. They can trade monk class abilities (if vanilla monk) or ki powers (if unchained monk) for new ki powers unique to the archetype, usually themed around poison, defeating divination, and similar things.
Sage counselors are mentors who like to speak in metaphors a lot. They tweak monk class skills, trade 1st/2nd/6th level bonus feats for for Combat Expertise/Improved Feint/Greater Feint, ignoring the prereqs, can spend ki to feint as a swift action in exchange for being able to spend ki for an extra attack, and eventually can replace their first attack when flurrying with a feint check in exchange for their 10th level bonus feat, and trade the ability to spend ki to increase their speed for the ability to spend ki to get a +4 Bluff bonus, which also replaces the 4th level ki power for unchained monks.
It's probably pretty obvious by now that they can totally be used with the unchained monk.
Online sites like d20pfsrd and Archives of Nethys already provide that, so really no need for reprints.
No they don't since why would I search on those sites for things I don't know exists? I mean I could search through the lists of every single x in existence... but spending 3 weeks to find a feat that might not even exist seems like a rather large waste of time.
Also I simply do not use golarion content, so regardless of availability I'm not using them.
Can someone give details on the Zealot? Are there still the Celestial/Fey/Infernal/Abyssal sub specializations? What do they give up for spell casting?
Spoiler:
The cast as an Inquisitor. They give up a bunch of vigilante talents, but they gain access to some Zealot talents. They also gain an alignment aura and an inquisition. They're very Inquisitor-y.
Pathfinder Companion, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Human Fighter wrote:
Luthorne, thanks for the information. Not quite what I was expecting for some of those feats.
Could you provide details on the swashbuckler archetypes please?
Guiding blades are more focused on teamwork. They lose their bonus feats and 1st/7th/15th level deeds in exchange for getting teamwork feats at 1st/4th/8th/12th/16th/20th, which they can grant to allies by spending panache with increasing efficacy. They regain panache when their allies knock enemies down to 0 instead of when they do. They can use charmed life on allies within 30 feet. They trade nimble for the ability to help boost the AC of adjacent allies against attacks they're aware of. They trade kip-up for the ability to attempt to redirect attacks from an ally to themselves and make an immediate action attack against the enemy if successful.
Noble fencers are upper-class swashbucklers with a more social bent. They trade dodging panache for the ability to spend panache to boost social skills much like derring-do and give themself a bonus when it comes to social duels, superior feint to boost social panache, subtle blade to make it impossible to demoralize them as long as they have panache, and trade out charmed for a scaling bonus against mind-affecting effects.
Veiled blades are sneaky, subtle swashbucklers. They slightly tweak their class skills, trade opportune parry and riposte for having Quick Draw as long as they have panache, menacing swordplay to allow themselves to use Sleight of Hand to hide any light/one-handed piercing weapon with a bonus, swashbuckler's grace for the ability to draw hidden weapons with swashbuckler's initiative, and swashbuckler's edge to let them merge with a light/one-handed piercing weapon that they can make appear and vanish as a swift action.
nighttree wrote:
Can we get info on the Cabalist ?
Cabalists modify their class skills, drop down to 4 + Int skill points, and lose medium armor proficiency, but can cast spells in light armor. They trade their 4th/8th/10th/14th/16th level vigilante talents for spellcasting as per a magus except with the witch spell list. They have a spellbook. They specialize in causing bleed damage with weapons and getting bonuses against bleeding enemies, as well as some shadow and necromancy themed options. At high levels, they're constantly blurred while in their vigilante form.
Nethys is pretty good at updating what he did put up and has easy to follow links all over. As for offline, well, that's understandable which is why, personally, I file them for offline use on documents. Example, I have a document of all PF feats currently out (minus the Intrigue book now). Although I can see why that would be tedious for some.
To go back on topic, is there anything in the book that helps characters have the dual identity bit without needing to go into Vigilante? Sort of like Amateur Gunslinger?
Pathfinder Companion, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Barachiel Shina wrote:
Nethys is pretty good at updating what he did put up and has easy to follow links all over. As for offline, well, that's understandable which is why, personally, I file them for offline use on documents. Example, I have a document of all PF feats currently out (minus the Intrigue book now). Although I can see why that would be tedious for some.
To go back on topic, is there anything in the book that helps characters have the dual identity bit without needing to go into Vigilante? Sort of like Amateur Gunslinger?
Masked performer bard archetype gets dual identity, beyond that, there are primarily just various ways to fool divination spells. Nameless One from Arcane Anthology does exist, though.
Edit: I'm off to bed, though, so no more answers tonight.
Cabalist is a Vigilante archetype.
Gains (loses/alters): 6+Int skill points/level, (no medium armor proficiency), casts as a Magus (loses some talents), can make a bleeding attack and gains special abilities that affect targets that are bleeding (loses specialization, startling/frightening appearence), access to Cabalist talents, a concealment effect (loses stunning appearence).
Can someone give me a description of the Cavalier Archetypes?
Spoiler:
Courtly Knight - Has a bit more of a social focus; battlefield and throneroom.
Daring General - Cohort-focused and can grant special roles to followers.
Hussar - Mobility-focused mounted warrior.
Nethys is pretty good at updating what he did put up and has easy to follow links all over. As for offline, well, that's understandable which is why, personally, I file them for offline use on documents. Example, I have a document of all PF feats currently out (minus the Intrigue book now). Although I can see why that would be tedious for some.
To go back on topic, is there anything in the book that helps characters have the dual identity bit without needing to go into Vigilante? Sort of like Amateur Gunslinger?
Masked performer bard archetype gets dual identity, beyond that, there are primarily just various ways to fool divination spells. Nameless One from Arcane Anthology does exist, though.
Edit: I'm off to bed, though, so no more answers tonight.
Nameless One is different though because you give up the old identity when you become a nameless one, so you're not living a dual life.
Interesting that they are reprinting Fencing Grace. I just hope they are not altering it like Slashing Grace so it no longer will function for the Magus.
Earthmeld - meld with stone.
Flame Trap - trap a container with fire!
Spying Touchsight - Sort of a scry-like effect.
Greater Voice of the Wind - A better version of Voice of the Wind.
Greater Watersense - A better version of watersense.
How does their henshin transformation sequence work?
Spoiler:
They use all 6 stats to some degree: Strength, dexterity, Consistution, Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma. They cast spells as an Unchained Summoner.
The transformation sequence is described as "quite a spectacle" with lots of sound and light. There don't seem to be any mechanics attached to it, other than the length of time it takes.
Could I get a bit more on the Secret Broker, it seems like it could be a good fit for my occultist.
You can!
Spoiler:
Secret Broker gets some additional skills. They start play with a divination implement. They can trade secrets with other creatures through objects, or destroy them (you'll have to read it). They can share memories (as the spell). They can steal and erase secrets/memories from other creatures as well.
Could I get a bit more on the Secret Broker, it seems like it could be a good fit for my occultist.
You can!
** spoiler omitted **
-Skeld
Sounds right up my alley, but just what do they lose out on, I hope it's not many implements.
Spoiler:
You're limited to divination at level 1 and divination must be selected for implement mastery. Other class abilities lost or altered: magic item skill (gone), shift focus (gone), magic circles / binding circles / fast circles (all gone).
Designer
