archmagi1 |
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So, is this the first time a iconic's finished artwork has been shown on the final cover of the book the class will be in?
No, the bloodrager and swashbuckler are on the cover of ACG, the occultist and psychic on occult adventures, retcon magus on U Magic, samurai on U Combat, and witch and alchemist on APG. (and technically all 4 unchained classes on unchained, though thats not a premiere)
I don't know or not whether its the first time we've seen the cover prior to any other art reveals (con screencaps, meet the iconics, etc.), though.
Kalindlara Contributor |
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Dragon78 wrote:So, is this the first time a iconic's finished artwork has been shown on the final cover of the book the class will be in?No, the bloodrager and swashbuckler are on the cover of ACG, the occultist and psychic on occult adventures, retcon magus on U Magic, samurai on U Combat, and witch and alchemist on APG. (and technically all 4 unchained classes on unchained, though thats not a premiere)
I don't know or not whether its the first time we've seen the cover prior to any other art reveals (con screencaps, meet the iconics, etc.), though.
If we're being fully technical, Seoni and Valeros are on the cover of the CRB - the first Pathfinder sourcebook in which their classes appeared. ^_^
pixierose |
The design for the iconic seems interesting.
I might change my inquisitor of Dammerich into a Vigilante(Zealot) of Dammerich because it might work better for the abilities and feel I am going for.
I am also excited for the Warlock version(although I have heard they are now archetypes and not variations)
ErisAcolyte-Chaos jester |
The idea of a vigilante class makes me interested in what other kinds of classes we might get in the future. And if the vigilantes secondary identity thing is a feat available to multiple classes, then we could have vigilante/pseudo-vigilante groups manipulating the city from the shadow(or defending it from the shadows. either or). Even if SOME people use the class as an excuse to play a pseudo-supers game, paizo can still throw in the darker or more horrifying edge(what happens when people go too far in taking the law into their own hands, When a vigilante's identity is discovered by a vengeful enemy, or a once beloved protector of the people dies or disappears and there is a power vacuum to be filled(and there are foes that want to destroy the symbol of the hero before)).
Its interesting to see what the future has in store for pathfinder.
Axial |
The idea of a vigilante class makes me interested in what other kinds of classes we might get in the future. And if the vigilantes secondary identity thing is a feat available to multiple classes, then we could have vigilante/pseudo-vigilante groups manipulating the city from the shadow(or defending it from the shadows. either or). Even if SOME people use the class as an excuse to play a pseudo-supers game, paizo can still throw in the darker or more horrifying edge(what happens when people go too far in taking the law into their own hands, When a vigilante's identity is discovered by a vengeful enemy, or a once beloved protector of the people dies or disappears and there is a power vacuum to be filled(and there are foes that want to destroy the symbol of the hero before)).
Its interesting to see what the future has in store for pathfinder.
I predict that Paizo will go back and make their own interpretations of popular D&d classes that haven't been translated to Pathfinder yet: namely, the Warlord and the Artificer.
Milo v3 |
They've said that the second identity will be a feat?
During the playtest many people including myself suggested that their should be an amateur vigilante feat in the same why there are amateur gunslinger feats, and the dev's went "That sounds like a good idea." But, whether or not such a thing is actually in the final product has not been officially stated as of this moment as far as I'm aware.
Ross Byers RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32 |
Mark Seifter Designer |
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With all the cool vigilante archetypes available (there's a bunch now, and some of them are particularly cool!), you could definitely build a "traditional balanced" party of all vigilantes if you desired, and you'd even have quite a few choices for all but one of them too. Just one month to go; I'm as excited as you guys for you to see what we cooked up!
Milo v3 |
With all the cool vigilante archetypes available (there's a bunch now, and some of them are particularly cool!), you could definitely build a "traditional balanced" party of all vigilantes if you desired, and you'd even have quite a few choices for all but one of them too. Just one month to go; I'm as excited as you guys for you to see what we cooked up!
I wonder if there will be an archetype that gives them wild talents and a disguised form that is made from their element... may have to homebrew if it doesn't end up in the book.
hmm... or a druid archetype who uses mechanics similar to the vigilantes to represent his control over an area of wilderness... I mean it's not very intrigue, but it fits so well with druid...
Protoman |
<Crosses fingers that the avenger keeps full BAB>
I would hate to rebuild my PFS playtest vigilante hate an average BAB. I'm currently having fun with a tripping fiend with Dirty Tactics, Improved Trip, Vicious Stomp + Fist of the Avenger, and Vital Punishment + greatsword. Average BAB would totally mess that up.
Alexander Augunas Contributor |
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So, is this the first time a iconic's finished artwork has been shown on the final cover of the book the class will be in?
Nope! It's been happening since the APG. Damiel was on the APG's cover, Setyiel was on UM, Hayamato (sp?) was on UC, Jirelle and Crow were on the cover of ACG, and Mavaro and the Iconic Psychic were on OA. Plus Balazar, Miresielle, Amiri, and Sajan were on Unchained.
In other words, putting a new iconic on the cover is almost always a given.
(Sorry about spellings; I'm on my phone.)
ErisAcolyte-Chaos jester |
You mentioned daring heists...I wonder if they will like oceans eleven in terms of planning and execution, or turn into a similar case to a payday 2 heist going loud. Either way, I am looking forward to seeing what kind of spin paizo puts on the whole thing with the presence of magic, booby traps, and monsters. Raiding a wealthy nobles super-secret vault might turn into a vicious gauntlet of obstacles, while plundering an cult or organisations treasury might be a more complex affair of infiltration, sabotage, theft and extraction before the cult realize whats happening and lay them over a sacrificial slab, or otherwise kill them in a gruesome fashion.
Barachiel Shina |
Hey everyone, I just thought of something quite interesting. I dunno if this has been mentioned before but, considering the topic of the material in this book there needs to be one question answered first:
Will this book answer the age old question of whether Nondetection works against True Seeing or not? (and, subsequently, someone invisible and with Nondetection being targeted by True Seeing)
I would find it hard to believe this doesn't get a real answer at least in this book.
Marco Massoudi |
Hey everyone, I just thought of something quite interesting. I dunno if this has been mentioned before but, considering the topic of the material in this book there needs to be one question answered first:
Will this book answer the age old question of whether Nondetection works against True Seeing or not? (and, subsequently, someone invisible and with Nondetection being targeted by True Seeing)
I would find it hard to believe this doesn't get a real answer at least in this book.
Why should it be answered in this book? These are CRB spells and not new ones from this book.
The consense on the forums is:True seeing allows a caster level check that if successful lets see through the illusion.
I would rule it the same as DM.
Marco Massoudi |
Well considering how much Nondetection and True Seeing blanket practically everything that "Characters of Intrigue" find themselves involved in, it would make sense to address this. It may be a forum consensus but how do the designers rule it? Is it going to be ignored in Ultimate Intrigue also?
The designers don't rule it at all.
Such things are clarified very rarely.And if they are, it happens in the CRB errata.
Stealth and disguise (and perception) are much more used than invisibility and nondetection together (has NEVER happend in any game i took part in 28 years).
Invisibility purge, glitterdust or plain old powder/caltrops take care of invisibility real fast. As does detect magic in 2 rounds.
Nondetection is not very foolproof, mind blank is.
Milo v3 |
We actually do have a couple of sections for a good number of common intrigue rules interactions and how they fit into your games. I think they're really going to be a boon even for running a non-intrigue game where people are interested in these kind of interactions at all.
That's surprising, though would be rather useful.
Barachiel Shina |
Barachiel Shina wrote:Well considering how much Nondetection and True Seeing blanket practically everything that "Characters of Intrigue" find themselves involved in, it would make sense to address this. It may be a forum consensus but how do the designers rule it? Is it going to be ignored in Ultimate Intrigue also?The designers don't rule it at all.
Such things are clarified very rarely.
And if they are, it happens in the CRB errata.Stealth and disguise (and perception) are much more used than invisibility and nondetection together (has NEVER happend in any game i took part in 28 years).
Invisibility purge, glitterdust or plain old powder/caltrops take care of invisibility real fast. As does detect magic in 2 rounds.
Nondetection is not very foolproof, mind blank is.
So you're saying it's officially ruled that True Seeing vs Nondetection have been clarified already? I definitely didn't see that posted anywhere.
David knott 242 |
What needs to be clarified about True Seeing vs. Nondetection? True Seeing is a divination spell, and the Nondetection spell description contains rules about how it interacts with divination spells.
Jack of Dust |
I'm really looking forward to seeing Vigilante art both in this book and in future books, especially ones with different costumes. I'm also interested in seeing Vigilantes of different races.
I'm really glad that I no longer have to choose between the Avenger and Stalker specializations too. The idea of a martial who uses underhanded but not necessarily sneaky tactics has always appealed to me. I'm sure the people trying to build Batman with the class will be pretty happy with it as well.
Barachiel Shina |
I'm really looking forward to seeing Vigilante art both in this book and in future books, especially ones with different costumes. I'm also interested in seeing Vigilantes of different races.
I'm really glad that I no longer have to choose between the Avenger and Stalker specializations too. The idea of a martial who uses underhanded but not necessarily sneaky tactics has always appealed to me. I'm sure the people trying to build Batman with the class will be pretty happy with it as well.
Or Green Arrow. Which is what I think of more with this class than Batman, who is really just a TTRPG Munchkin's Dream Character with what him being able to do just about near everything.
Jack of Dust |
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I hope the problems with the social talents were addressed. One of the glaring problems in the playtest was that you would spend most of your social talents on gaining more renown or the ability to switch between identities in a reasonable amount of time rather than actually getting fun things to do while in your social identity such as Loyal Aid, Case the Joint and a Safehouse. Gaining more renown seems like something that should happen naturally as you level up and spending a talent so you can switch identities quickly seems like a bit of a tax. It's something nearly all Vigilantes will be forced to take too because switching identities at a moment's notice is the only way they'll be able to react to a situation in time. The fact that you could only take it at Level 7 or higher just made it worse.
Protoman |
Yea safehouses sound cool. If that's still something that sticks around in the final version I hope it gets explained if a vigilante gets a safehouse in each area of renown each of equal size, or he has or just one safehouse that can be moved, or several safehouses but divides up the level-based area cubes amongst them.
ErisAcolyte-Chaos jester |
Outside of the vigilante, i wonder what kind of archetypes we could get for some of the other classes. Inquisitors, Rogues, slayers, and investigators i could understand some possibilities, but then there are classes like the mesmerist, spiritualist, druid or alchemist that make me wonder what paizo is going to do with them. In any case, colour me...Intrigued.
Also, I will maybe be making a few vigilantes, with names like 'the Silken Spider', 'The Motley Marionette', 'Maskqurade', and 'Overgrowth'.
Liz Courts Community Manager |
Thomas Seitz |
FattyLumpkin wrote:Liz Courts wrote:Now available for preorder! Cover image is a mockup and subject to change.This WILL lead to a Red Mantis AP. Do you hear me? It will, I have no doubts.>.>
<.<
...have you been reading my PaizoCon game notes? >.>
Seriously Liz?!! Sweet! :) I totally look forward to scaring the crap out of my players even more with Red Mantises. ;)
Arachnofiend |
ErisAcolyte-Chaos jester wrote:I predict that Paizo will go back and make their own interpretations of popular D&d classes that haven't been translated to Pathfinder yet: namely, the Warlord and the Artificer.The idea of a vigilante class makes me interested in what other kinds of classes we might get in the future. And if the vigilantes secondary identity thing is a feat available to multiple classes, then we could have vigilante/pseudo-vigilante groups manipulating the city from the shadow(or defending it from the shadows. either or). Even if SOME people use the class as an excuse to play a pseudo-supers game, paizo can still throw in the darker or more horrifying edge(what happens when people go too far in taking the law into their own hands, When a vigilante's identity is discovered by a vengeful enemy, or a once beloved protector of the people dies or disappears and there is a power vacuum to be filled(and there are foes that want to destroy the symbol of the hero before)).
Its interesting to see what the future has in store for pathfinder.
The Occultist makes a pretty good stand in for the Artificer, actually. Just say you build your own implements rather than find them and you're good to go.
Milo v3 |
The Occultist makes a pretty good stand in for the Artificer, actually. Just say you build your own implements rather than find them and you're good to go.
And then you get outsider contacts out of nowhere.... Not perfectly good to go. An artificer archetype would be very easy to put on the occultist though.
David knott 242 |
Thanks to Mark Seifter for the spoilers he mentioned at Owlcon and posted here.