Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Intrigue (PFRPG)

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Intrigue (PFRPG)
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Words Cut Deep

In the right setting, a single scathing word can prove deadlier than a poisoned dagger. Behind the scenes of heroic battles and magical realms lies a seething underbelly of danger and deception. This world of intrigue holds endless possibilities for adventure, as heroes duel with words instead of steel, plot daring heists, and engage in battles of wills against relentless nemeses. A high-stakes game of shadows and secrets is yours to master—if you have the wits!

Whether the heroes are taming the blood-soaked back alleys of their favorite metropolis or jockeying for the queen's favor alongside highborn nobles, Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Intrigue is an invaluable companion to the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook. This imaginative tabletop game builds upon more than 10 years of system development and an Open Playtest featuring more than 50,000 gamers to create a cutting-edge RPG experience that brings the all-time best-selling set of fantasy rules into a new era.

Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Intrigue includes:

  • The vigilante, a new character class that lives two lives—that of an unassuming member of the community, and a cloaked crusader with his own agenda!
  • New archetypes for alchemists, bards, druids, hunters, inquisitors, investigators, mesmerists, rangers, rogues, slayers, spiritualists, and more!
  • New feats and magic items for characters of all sorts, granting mastery of street-smart combat, impenetrable disguises, and misdirection.
  • Dozens of spells to manipulate tense social settings, whether to reveal adversaries' secrets or hide the truth.
  • A complete system of influence, providing new goals and rewards to challenge players and link their fortunes to nonplayer characters and organizations.
  • Systems and advice to help Game Masters introduce a variety of new encounters into their games­—daring heists, extended pursuits, and tense searches for buried secrets.
  • Rules for social combat and verbal duels, allowing characters to use words as weapons to sway hearts and humiliate foes.
  • ... and much, much more!

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-826-7

Other Resources: This product is also available on the following platforms:

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Fantasy Grounds Virtual Tabletop
Archives of Nethys

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A Must-Have for Heavy RP Games

5/5

Okay, let's get into Ultimate Intrigue! As the title implies, the purpose of this book is to help flesh out more subtle elements of the game: things like spreading rumors, rallying a crowd, stealing secrets, and other classic cloak-and-dagger stuff. I've used bits and pieces of it in previous campaigns, but read through it carefully (and incorporated a fair bit of it) for my current Curse of the Crimson Throne campaign, as that adventure path is designed around urban political strife. Boiled down to brass tacks, the book is a 256 page hardcover comprised of six chapters. The full-colour artwork is very strong throughout, and the cover is great (though Merisiel's legs are like three times longer than her torso!). There's a very short two-page introduction that summarises each chapter--which is what I'm going to do anyway.

Chapter 1 is "Classes" (60 pages). The big deal here is a new base case, the Vigilante. The concept is that the character has both a normal (social) identity and a masked identity, with certain class options only working while in the associated guise. There are also several safeguards to help keep anyone from figuring out that Bruce Wayne is really Batman. I have a Vigilante character in Pathfinder Society, and one of my players runs one in Curse of the Crimson Throne. I think the class is perfect for an urban campaign mostly set in a single city (especially with lots room for intrigue), but it doesn't work as well with the more traditional "travelling adventuring party" campaign. It's a bit too obvious when five newcomers arrive in town, only for one of them to "disappear" and a new costumed avenger show up. I know there are also some gamers who dislike what can seem like the awkward introduction of comic book super heroes into their fantasy role-playing. For me, I think the concept works well--though as I said, only in particular types of campaigns.

A large chunk of the chapter is devoted to new archetypes for other classes. More specifically, alchemists, bards, cavaliers, druids, inquisitors, investigators, mesmerists, rangers, rogues, skalds, spiritualists, swashbucklers, and vigilantes get some love. Frankly, a lot of the archetypes are fairly forgettable, but there are exceptions--for example, a Daring General Cavalier would be great in military campaigns, the Dandy Ranger could be really useful in an urban campaign, and a couple of the vigilante archetypes are perfect if you want to play the Hulk or Spider-Man. Although the rogue archetypes aren't very good, there are several excellent rogue talents that focus on making the character harder to track through divination, etc. It's worth nothing that this book came out during the period when the hardcover line was still setting-neutral, so there won't be any Golarion-specific flavour with the archetypes (for better or worse depending on your preferences).

Chapter 2 is "Feats" (24 pages). There's something like 110 new feats in the chapter, and probably something for everyone. Given the book's theme, many of the feats are related to sneaking around, hiding and disguising spells, stealing stuff, making plans, figuring out when you're being to lied to, etc. A few that I particularly like include Brilliant Planner (giving you the chance to have just what you need just when you need it), Call Truce (giving a slim chance to actually end combat peacefully when its underway), and Drunkard's Recovery (silly but fun). A couple of important feats are Conceal Spell (which hides the pesky manifestations that spells create in Pathfinder) and Fencing Grace (adding Dex to damage with rapiers, a favourite of swashbucklers everywhere). Overall, I thought the options presented were well-written and plausible in terms of desirability.

Chapter 3 is "Mastering Intrigue" (68 pages). This is probably the most important chapter in the book for GMs. It offers tons of useful advice, as well as clarification on some tricky game mechanics, to help run intrigue-based games. The pages about how common magic spells can be handled while still preserving mysteries, secrets, and misdirection is pure gold. The chapter also introduces seven new rules sub-systems, any or all of which can be incorporated into a campaign to flesh out certain aspects of gameplay. "Influence" is a sub-system that deepens the process of persuading a person or organisation to support you. Instead of a simple single Dipomacy check, PCs need to make certain skill checks to learn a person's interests and weaknesses, and then other skill checks to take advantage of what they've learned. The process operates through multiple phases of tracked successes and failures, and can be tied to mechanical favours and benefits. It's become a very popular facet of many Pathfinder Society scenarios, and I think it's a pretty clever way to handle things--though it can be a bit clunky at first. "Heists" is a sub-system that contains some excellent advice to GMs on how to structure things so players don't obsess over unimportant trivia and are willing to violate that old canard of "don't split the party." "Infiltration" contains some quick advice, but that's about it. "Leadership" deepens the feat of the same name, adding lots of rules for interacting with other sub-systems both in this book and in Ultimate Campaign. I'm personally still not persuaded that the Leadership feat chain is a good inclusion to the game. "Nemeses" is all about adding a recurring villain; I think it's trying to systematise something that could be handled just fine without it. Though there are some fun suggestions on evil plots to foil. "Pursuit" is a little like the Chase sub-system from the GameMastery Guide but stretched out over hours and days cross-country instead of in minutes through alleyways. I could imagine using it. "Research" is probably my favourite of the sub-systems, and one I've used in multiple campaigns. In essence, it gives the PCs a reason to use things like libraries and archives by giving them bonuses to their Knowledge checks, but then makes gaining different thresholds of information the result of multiple successful checks. Overall, a great chapter--I wish the Influence and Research sub-systems had been in the Core Rulebook, because they really add a lot to the non-combat aspects of the game.

Chapter 4 is "Social Combat" (25 pages). The idea here is to present GMs with options on how to handle social conflicts--things like debates, trials, cutting repartee, etc. There's also a "verbal duels" sub-system. I'm just not sure about it--it's something I'd have to see in practice. However, a really useful part of the chapter is advice to the GM on how to handle the various social skills in the game--Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Sense Motive--as well as the intrigue skills like Disguise, Perception, and Stealth. The advice here is excellent, and I just stopped in the middle of this review to reread it.

Chapter 5 is "Spells" (40 pages). You can judge from the length of the chapter that there's a ton of new spells, and every spellcasting class will find something. One of the fun things the chapter introduces is a new "ruse" descriptor for spells, which means the spell is easily mistaken for another even by observers trained in Spellcraft or Knowledge (arcana). It's a good way to mislead folks who have played way too much Pathfinder. There are some really clever spells in this section, with a couple of my favourites including false resurrection (instead of bringing back a soul, you stuff a demon into the body!) and the hilarious shamefully overdressed.

Chapter 6 is "Gear and Magic Items" (22 pages). There are some new mundane pieces of equipment (weapons like the cool wrist dart launcher, alchemical items, etc.) but most of the chapter is new magic items with an intrigue theme. The one that really stuck out at me was the launcher of distraction, which is perfect for assassination attempts because it makes it seem like the attack is coming from somewhere else.

Overall, I think Ultimate Intrigue is an excellent book. It's pretty much a must-have in my opinion for any campaign that's going to involve a lot of role-playing or that moves beyond traditional dungeon crawling and wilderness encounters. Even readers not involved in "intrigue campaigns" per se are sure to find plenty of material they can use.


1/5

Don't get me wrong I love Paizo books, I love their work, and I'm proud to own almost all of their publications.

However, Ultimate Intrigue is the one book I regret buying. It's even more than that, it's the one book i regret they ever published.

We need rules and systems, ok. We need a magic system because magic isn't a real thing. We need a combat system otherwise playing with your grilfriend become home abuse. But we don't need a social system because it's a ROLEPLAYING game. Either you want intrigue heavy campaign and you roleplay them, or you want to dungeon crawl or investigate (that's fine too) and you don't play intrigues. You can even do both and it's great.

Aside from that massive problem, the book suffers from "a turn normal actions into feats/class ability" syndrome. I can't count the number of time where players made me fighters to wizards or rogues with a dual identity. We didn't need the Vigilante, and still don't. And I loved when wizard use to get clever and ask for linguistics/bluff roll to blend a spell into a phrase. Now you need a feat for it. Thanks, Ultimate Intrigue. If that was not enough, some of these nonsense feat are built in feat tax chains.

But the one thing I hate the most about this book is the stupid FAQ it bestowed upon us to promote itself (https://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9tza). That makes a whole school of magic (illusion) utterly useless, and destroys a lot of others (enchantment).

Now I know I can just refuse to use it. But i use to love pathfinder for the clarity and perfect sense with out need to houserule much.

Now it's gone.


I'm tired of paizo trying to stuff this book down our face

1/5

If I was playing a home campaign this book might be more fitting,

For society play this verbal debate and other ideas for this book really bog down the game play. I like social aspect of games and role playing but as I said society play it slows the game way down to try and get people up to snuff on the mechanics


An amazing new class in a hit and miss supplement

4/5

So, Ultimate Intrigue took a long time for me to come to a complete opinion on.

The Vigilante class introduced in this book is, in my opinion, easily the best non-spellcasting class Paizo has ever created. It breaks up its social options and combat options in such a way that you have a great character able to participate in all areas of the game without having to choose whether you want to be competent in combat or in the myriad other facets of the game like exploration, social encounters, etc. It has deep and well-designed talents that allow you to pick any of a variety of different ways to participate in combat, with or without weapons, and numerous tools for allowing players to influence the story with safe houses, contacts, and more.

At PAX Prime 2016 I had the opportunity to visit Paizo's Pathfinder demo area and play their pregenerated vigilante character. I honestly didn't expect it to go terribly well; after all, the vigilante is a class built around balancing two identities and moving between different social strata, so you'd think that this would require a more controlled environment where you know the other players in advance and have time to plan out how your character fits into the game world with your GM ahead of time, right? Turns out, I was wrong. The vigilante class is well-crafted enough that even while playing a 1st level pregen I was able to easily deal with situations in and out of combat, and it took me about 60 seconds of conversation to establish with the group that I had a secret identity they were privy to and might need them to cover for my character from time to time if he needed to swap identities. It didn't hurt matters that the only downside to anyone learning a vigilante's secret identity is that, well, they know his or her secret identity. You can go all Tony Stark if you want, announce that you are Iron Man, and carry on as normal. Very few of the vigilante's abilities actually require you to maintain truly secret identities, and the only real hit you take is that you're a bit easier to find by magical means (though even this can be addressed with clever use of the Safe House Social Talent).

The book also elaborates on the intent behind numerous spells that often prove problematic for GMs in games where they want to have a focus on gritty investigation of mystery, such as the various detect spells, speak with dead, etc.

I think my biggest disappointments with the book, and the reason I can't give it 5 stars, lie in the feats and archetypes. I'll start with the feats, and a bit about why I see most of them as representative of missed opportunities.

To start with, Pathfinder's skill system is heavily dated. When Paizo brought it over from 3.5, they combined a few extraneous skills, but otherwise did little to update things, meaning the core area of the rules covering everything in the game that isn't casting spells or hitting things is now well over a decade old and out of date. Several skills don't even actually work, or work well, as written, have interactions you're just supposed to kind of assume or make up (Ride and Handle Animal are a mess, Stealth requires one to check out FAQs and blog posts online to use as intended, Bluff and Diplomacy have more than a few vague areas and inconsistencies, etc.), so what better book to address, update, and expand these core components of the game than a book about playing skill and intrigue heavy campaigns? Unfortunately, Paizo chose not to go that route, instead relying on feats to stretch skills over their gaps and issues, leading to many of the feats in the this book providing skill uses that I've seen GMs at hundreds of tables houserule as basic functions of those skills to begin with. Instead of formalizing intuitive uses of existing skills into their basic function, they added a feat tax to allow characters to do things many people already thought they could do. While there is a section in the book going over several of the vague areas in a few key skills, these are primarily common sense clarifications instead of the full address the skills could have used.

The archetypes, like many Paizo hardcovers, are all over the place. Some of them are interesting and dynamic, like the Masked Performer bard archetype, some show an attempt at embodying a cool and modern concept but fail to achieve that concept in the actual execution, like the Magical Child vigilante archetype, and some are just plain bad, so obviously terribly designed that you almost wonder if the person who wrote them has ever actually played Pathfinder, like the Brute vigilante archetype.

Now, don't let the above wall of negativity mislead you; there is a lot of great stuff in this book, including perhaps the most inspired and well-crafted class Paizo has ever produced, a class that introduces really interesting design concepts, plays with components of the class chassis we haven't seen classes treat as quite so malleable before, and is a genuinely fun and interesting class to play in and of itself. Despite many of the feats ranging from useless to frustrating, there are still quite a few that are interesting and viable, and while the archetypes are very hit or miss, that's generally true of Paizo books in general and probably shouldn't be held against this one in particular.

My final verdict on Ultimate Intrigue is 4 stars, and a strong recommendation to pick it up, if for no other reason than to add the Vigilante class to your game (though there definitely are other reasons to add this book to your collection).


Pathfinder presents Batman!

4/5

No seriously. The vigilante class is freaking batman. Look at the art for chapter one and for the character. HE'S BATMAN. Of course they also have archetypes if you want to make Hulk, Sailor Moon, even He-Man. With the archetypes from other books the list goes on.
My favorite part, and I cannot wait to test this properly in a game, is the social combat. It works a lot like playing craps or roulette. You get a pool of Determination points which you use to place a bet then you roll off with your social skills check! Seriously it sounds like lots of fun!


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

What spell is the art on 207 depicting? It's cracking me up, but I can't figure out what it's from.

Designer

7 people marked this as a favorite.
skizzerz wrote:
What spell is the art on 207 depicting? It's cracking me up, but I can't figure out what it's from.

That's a conditional curse on a princess who will be grateful when it breaks after a "kiss from a person of true nobility and status"...or at least that's what Merisiel told Alain.


11 people marked this as a favorite.

Personally, I feel the only true paladins are the ones in service of Charlemagne; all of the paladins in Golarion are imposters.


Can I get more details on the Vox mesmerist Archetype ???


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Renegade Paladin wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
Quandary wrote:
To be fair, RP's stance is pretty much identical to what James Jacobs/Paizo's stance has been up to this point.
I find it strange how other classes are allowed to have archetypes that changes the concept but somehow if you make a paladin archetype that makes it not the horrible cliche they're not real paladins.

Sure you can! Just call it something else. Note that Tyrant is in the same book and I haven't had a peep of complaint about that; in fact I'm rather excited. Had they cribbed Unearthed Arcana and called it "paladin of tyranny," though, I'd have blown a gasket. :P Antipaladin is a ham-handed design (there should be more to a champion of Evil than just inverting the paladin, if nothing else because offensive abilities and inflicting status effects are inherently more powerful than cures and removing status effects), but that's a separate problem.

The problem is that words have meanings, and titles especially do. You don't call any schlub who took a first aid course Doctor, you don't call a county councilman Senator, and you don't call some random guy with a sword out for himself a paladin or a knight (and if the setting you're playing in is a chivalric and aristocratic society, heaven help you if you called him Sir). If you want a CG-aligned champion of freedom class, Liberator or something would be appropriate, and I would totally play one, especially if it had abilities that appropriately reflect championing freedom rather than a direct port of the paladin's skill set. But if you start calling any champion class of every alignment "paladin of X," the word ceases to have meaning, or at least meaning beyond "can smite people he disagrees with."

Now that I understand your problem with the concept (the word used rather than the actual idea) I'm more ok with it. Cause I don't really like Grey Paladin anyway. I mean call it what you want in the book, but I'm finding a better name than that if I use it.

EDIt: Since it was mentioned above- What level in the Conditional Favor spell? Or is it a feat? Cause one of my player's wants to use it for his contract loving warpriest in Hell's Vengeance.


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Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
nighttree wrote:
Can I get more details on the Vox mesmerist Archetype ???

Vox:
Instead of normal psychic magic, the vox has verbal components and thought components and can not remove the verbal components from his spells. He adds a lot of sound based spells to his list.

He uses Compelling Voice on a target instead of a hypnotic stare (otherwise works the same mechanically).

With Wounding Words he adds sonic damage to his melee strikes.

Subsonic Strike allows him to attack multiple targets with wounding words as a ranged touch or concentrate them on one target.

These abilities replace towering ego, the 10th level mesmerist trick, and the touch treatments (minor, moderate, major, break enchantment).


Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
jedi8187 wrote:
...Since it was mentioned above- What level in the Conditional Favor spell? Or is it a feat? Cause one of my player's wants to use it for his contract loving warpriest in Hell's Vengeance.

Conditional Favor:
Spell; School abjuration; Level antipaladin 1, bard 2, cleric 2, inquisitor 2, mesmerist 2, occultist 2, paladin 1, witch 2

I have a couple of questions. Does any of the Investigator Archetypes lose Alchemy and also can I get some information on the Forensic Physician?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Pawns, Rulebook Subscriber

The Majordomo is the only archetype that replaces Alchemy.


jedi8187 wrote:
Renegade Paladin wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
I find it strange how other classes are allowed to have archetypes that changes the concept but somehow if you make a paladin archetype that makes it not the horrible cliche they're not real paladins.
Sure you can! Just call it something else. Note that Tyrant is in the same book and I haven't had a peep of complaint about that; in fact I'm rather excited. Had they cribbed Unearthed Arcana and called it "paladin of tyranny," though, I'd have blown a gasket. :P Antipaladin is a ham-handed design (there should be more to a champion of Evil than just inverting the paladin, if nothing else because offensive abilities and inflicting status effects are inherently more powerful than cures and removing status effects), but that's a separate problem.
Now that I understand your problem with the concept (the word used rather than the actual idea) I'm more ok with it. Cause I don't really like Grey Paladin anyway. I mean call it what you want in the book, but I'm finding a better name than that if I use...

Actually, I think (whether one likes the class or not) Grey Paladin does work as a name because it is specifically tied to the (real LG) Paladin, it is not an alternate alignment "Paladin"... And they pay a price for it in being over-all weaker, although with more flexibility.

But it is not about offering equally strong options focused on a different alignment (as Anti-Pal/Tyrant are, at least in theory), the class is still focused on the LG corner and adjacents... It does not give equal play to the other Alignment corners who may also intersect on adjacent alignment squares. In other words, it's more of an alternate take/path to "Fallen Paladin", i.e. "Half-Fallen", which Gray Paladin in fact seems an appropriate name for.
Now personally, I do find Tyrant a stronger concept than that, as well as some CG "Liberator", but Grey Paladin does seem a valid sub-type of Paladin, and of course one that addresses peoples' persistent issues with the standard Paladin Code.


Quandary wrote:
jedi8187 wrote:
Renegade Paladin wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
I find it strange how other classes are allowed to have archetypes that changes the concept but somehow if you make a paladin archetype that makes it not the horrible cliche they're not real paladins.
Sure you can! Just call it something else. Note that Tyrant is in the same book and I haven't had a peep of complaint about that; in fact I'm rather excited. Had they cribbed Unearthed Arcana and called it "paladin of tyranny," though, I'd have blown a gasket. :P Antipaladin is a ham-handed design (there should be more to a champion of Evil than just inverting the paladin, if nothing else because offensive abilities and inflicting status effects are inherently more powerful than cures and removing status effects), but that's a separate problem.
Now that I understand your problem with the concept (the word used rather than the actual idea) I'm more ok with it. Cause I don't really like Grey Paladin anyway. I mean call it what you want in the book, but I'm finding a better name than that if I use...

Actually, I think (whether one likes the class or not) Grey Paladin does work as a name because it is specifically tied to the (real LG) Paladin, it is not an alternate alignment "Paladin"... And they pay a price for it in being over-all weaker, although with more flexibility.

But it is not about offering equally strong options focused on a different alignment (as Anti-Pal/Tyrant are, at least in theory), the class is still focused on the LG corner and adjacents... It does not give equal play to the other Alignment corners who may also intersect on adjacent alignment squares. In other words, it's more of an alternate take/path to "Fallen Paladin", i.e. "Half-Fallen", which Gray Paladin in fact seems an appropriate name for.
Now personally, I do find Tyrant a stronger concept than that, as well as some CG "Liberator", but Grey Paladin does seem a valid sub-type of Paladin, and of course one that addresses peoples'...

From what I'm given to understand a Grey Paladin is not a half fallen paladin but rather a paladin the embodies the ideas of a LN or NG diety, but gets weaker options and can smite anyone. I don't have the book so I don't know the full flavor.


Can I get some information on the Majordomo and Forensic Physician Archetypes?


Could I get some information on the Battle Scion Skald?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
jedi8187 wrote:
From what I'm given to understand a Grey Paladin is not a half fallen paladin but rather a paladin the embodies the ideas of a LN or NG diety, but gets weaker options and can smite anyone. I don't have the book so I don't know the full flavor.

Half-fallen seems like a closer fit. Even if they venerate a LN or NG deity, they are still supposed to uphold the tenants of LG; they're just given more flexibility in how they go about doing so (and have less paladin powers as a result, although they get a couple of other things in exchange).


Just call the Gray Paladin "Grayguard" like 3.5 did and get it over with.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Pawns, Rulebook Subscriber

That could cause some legal issues.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
KaveDweller1349 wrote:
Can I get some information on the Majordomo and Forensic Physician Archetypes?

Forensic Physician:
He gets Medical Expertise and can use inspiration on any Heal checks without expending a use but not on any Linguistics check. He adds 1/2 his level on Heal checks, full level on Heal checks to notice tampering with medical

evidence. This alters inspiration and replaces trapfinding.

At 3rd level Disease Lore allows him to identify diseases in one minute and treat them in one minute. He gets a +2 save vs. disease and this goes up over time. This replaces trap sense and the 3rd level talent.

At 5th level he gets Blood Lore which allows him to identify a creature from its blood. He can identify age and gender, and can pull a Dexter and explain how long ago it was shed and how many creatures were involved in the fight. This replaces the 5th level talent.

Majordomo:
Replaces Trapfinding with Paper Trail, which allows him to know if someone is lying in a document or if it is a forgery.

Delegate replaces Alchemy and Swift Alchemy. It gives a bonus teamwork feat and more as he goes up in levels. He can also give teamwork feats temporarily to allies allowing for greater cooperation in combat and skill use.

Inspire Manager replaces Trap Sense and gives him the ability to create a plan for an ally doing a workday task (Craft, Profession, etc.). This carves 1/2 hour off for every 4 hours normally worked up to 1 hour off what would have been 8 to complete the task. It adds 2 to the Majordomo's Int score the bonus for a kingdom leadership role using the kingdom building rules from Ultimate Campaign. This goes up each time the Investigator gains 3 levels.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Corbynsonn wrote:
Could I get some information on the Battle Scion Skald?

Battle Scion:
Courtly Presence adds 1/2 her character level to Intimidate checks. He starts any verbal duel with an extra edge. His bardic knowledge ability applies to only Knowledge (geography), Knowledge (history), Knowledge (local), and Knowledge (nobility).

Battle Prowess allows the Skald to choose a Combat Feat instead of a rage power whenever he could choose one. He can share this combat feat with others through inspired rage.

At 10th level, he gets the Song of Questing raging song, which allows the casting of a geas/quest effect. The skald loses dirge of doom and song of the fallen.

Once and Future Scion replaces master skald at 20th level. When ever the battle scion is slain, he sleeps for three days in a death-like sleep before rising again so long as his body is not destroyed.


Renegade Paladin wrote:
The problem is that words have meanings, and titles especially do. You don't call any schlub who took a first aid course Doctor, you don't call a county councilman Senator, and you don't call some random guy with a sword out for himself a paladin or a knight (and if the setting you're playing in is a chivalric and aristocratic society, heaven help you if you called him Sir). If you want a CG-aligned champion of freedom class, Liberator or something would be appropriate, and I would totally play one, especially if it had abilities that appropriately reflect championing freedom rather than a direct port of the paladin's skill set. But if you start calling any champion class of every alignment "paladin of X," the word ceases to have meaning, or at least meaning beyond "can smite people he disagrees with."

Except it still is a knight of LG... It just has more lee-way than a normal paladin.


Would anyone be willing to share which abilities get changed/replaced by the Mesmerist's Enigma, Vizier, and Thought Eater archetypes?


Luthorne wrote:
Cthulhudrew wrote:
Can someone tell more about the Zeitgeist Binder? I'd been hoping for some kind of City Loci channeling Medium, but the spiritualist archetype sounds interesting, too.
** spoiler omitted **

Thanks! Sounds pretty cool. I still think a Medium would have been a better fit, but this is a cool alternative (and gives me some more thoughts on what to do to design a similar sort of "urban channeler" Medium archetype).


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

So the Grey Paladin is just like a Paladin, but with a less strict moral code? Sort of like Grey Jedi, who're just Jedi with a less strict moral code? Yeah, I can dig that. My favorite guy was a Grey Jedi.


Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
CupcakeNautilus wrote:
Would anyone be willing to share which abilities get changed/replaced by the Mesmerist's Enigma, Vizier, and Thought Eater archetypes?

The enigma alters hypnotic stare, replaces consummate liar, replaces painful stare, alters touch treatment, replaces manifold tricks, replaces glib lie, and replaces rule minds.

The thought eater replaces consummate liar, replaces towering ego, replaces touch treatement, and replaces rule minds.

The vizier replaces consummate liar and the bold stare improvement gained at 3rd level, and replaces towering ego and mental potency.


Dang! I was hoping they'd trade out some Mesmerist Tricks instead of some of the other stuff. Hopefully the stuff you get in return is worth it.


So does the 'noble fencer' archetype stack with the 'inspired blade' archetype for swashbucklers?


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TriOmegaZero wrote:
That could cause some legal issues.

Not unless WotC is invading my home to see if I'm using any of their old terms, it's not. :P

Silver Crusade

Ashram wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
That could cause some legal issues.
Not unless WotC is invading my home to see if I'm using any of their old terms, it's not. :P

Heh

Granted with the way you phrased it it was ambiguous in whether you were referring to other players or if Paizo itself should have called it that.

Shadow Lodge

So now that Ultimate Intrigue is out, when can we expect to see an AP for the vigilante. Call it Avengers Inner Sea, or Justice League of Golarion.

Silver Crusade

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the Queen's Raven wrote:
So now that Ultimate Intrigue is out, when can we expect to see an AP for the vigilante. Call it Avengers Inner Sea, or Justice League of Golarion.

Eh, maybe something a little less corny, like um, Hell's Rebels or something badass like that.

Dark Archive

Can I get more details on the Inquisitor Archetypes please?


Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Duskblade wrote:
So does the 'noble fencer' archetype stack with the 'inspired blade' archetype for swashbucklers?

I listed what the swashbuckler archetypes give up over here already.

Shadow Lodge

Anyone know what the art on page 205 is for?

Also if anyone has questions I'm willing to answer.


Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
doc the grey wrote:
Anyone know what the art on page 205 is for?

I believe it's for the animal ambassador spell.

Shadow Lodge

Also I will say I'm finding myself pretty disappointed with the Magical Child. The spell list doesn't really fit with any sailor moon/madoka magica/magic knights reyearth build (though the progression ain't bad) and the transformation power doesn't really make much sense. Like it describes it as this big spectacle of lights and sounds but since it still takes 5 rounds before it pops off and you don't get any special benefit to it or to protecting your identity (a staple of the genre) you really have 0 incentive to use it in combat and it basically evens it back out with the vigilante's normal change time mechanically save in the most niche of circumstances. It feels really wrong to have a magical girl arch that discourages you from doing this big spectacle transformation as soon as combat begins to an awestruck crowd of bad guys and loved ones who don't realize it's you. In the end you basically give up a bunch of options for a spell list that feels off and a familiar which is pretty cool. Hell, they could have went more occultist and given you magical items you use to cast your powers and we'd have some healing spells then too.

That said, Arachnid Wildsoul is awesome! Can build Spiderman, or maybe Spiderdrow...


Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Magical child still has access to seamless guise, so she does have a way to protect her identity in her transformed state. Besides, I honestly don't recall any magical girl series where they actually transformed in front of people who didn't already know, at least not unless there was no choice and that almost always blew their secret identity...they almost always either transformed in their room or ducked into an alley or something similar, from what I recall. As for the appropriateness of the spell list, honestly, there are so many different magical girls with different powers I think it would be virtually impossible to make a suitable magical girl spell list...some of them are basically blasters, some barely have any powers beyond something specific, like transforming into people, some have purification powers, some are hunting down power-ups that grant them unique oddball powers...or are a purely status thing.

I do agree wildsoul is awesome, already pondering an avenger arachnid wildsoul vigilante...just wish you could snag more vigilante talents earlier.


Guardian Spirit seems like a good feat to pick up with Magical Girl, allowing some spell list versatility though the Guardian Spirit template.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
the Queen's Raven wrote:
So now that Ultimate Intrigue is out, when can we expect to see an AP for the vigilante. Call it Avengers Inner Sea, or Justice League of Golarion.

So an AP based around the Sovereign Court or something? They're pretty League of Nations-y, it could work.


Is the Vigilante and its archetypes MAD? Or is it (IIRC) mostly charisma-based like in the playtest?

Contributor

So, this might be a special question, but is there any actual negative effect to people knowing bot identities of the vigilante? Like, is keeping it a secret only helpful to prevent being scried and having information gathered about you, or is there another mechanical penalty I haven't heard about? If there isn't, in most games I can't see the point of being too secretive with your identities.

Silver Crusade

doc the grey wrote:
That said, Arachnid Wildsoul is awesome! Can build Spiderman, or maybe Spiderdrow...

Doc -- This sounds really interesting. Can you expand a bit on what makes the Arachnid Wildsoul so awesome? Thanks!


Salafax wrote:
doc the grey wrote:
That said, Arachnid Wildsoul is awesome! Can build Spiderman, or maybe Spiderdrow...
Doc -- This sounds really interesting. Can you expand a bit on what makes the Arachnid Wildsoul so awesome? Thanks!

From what I gathered, they'd get to have enhanced senses, wall-climb, and webshoot (not sure about webswinging) as they progress in arachnid wildsoul vigilante levels. Quips still isn't a class feature and will still have to be roleplayed though, sadly.

Shadow Lodge

There have been follow up books in the player companion line for most of the hardcover books that give us Golarion specific options for the new classes. So will we see one for ultimate intrigue. If so I would like to see an archtype specific to Numeria that is tech based, possibly meant to go up against the Technic League. They could call it the Hacker.

Contributor

the Queen's Raven wrote:
There have been follow up books in the player companion line for most of the hardcover books that give us Golarion specific options for the new classes. So will we see one for ultimate intrigue. If so I would like to see an archtype specific to Numeria that is tech based, possibly meant to go up against the Technic League. They could call it the Hacker.

Inner Sea Intrigue is already announced. I'm thinking we might see some stuff for the Grey Gardeners of Galt. The Decimvarate seem like they'd use vigilante rules to cover their identities, but I doubt we'll get an archetype for them.


Here is a question I haven't seen yet. Did they give the FCB's for the vigilante? At least for the core races?

Dark Archive

Valantrix1 wrote:
Here is a question I haven't seen yet. Did they give the FCB's for the vigilante? At least for the core races?

Yes, just the core races.


Chris Ballard wrote:
Valantrix1 wrote:
Here is a question I haven't seen yet. Did they give the FCB's for the vigilante? At least for the core races?
Yes, just the core races.

Thanks!


Rysky wrote:
the Queen's Raven wrote:
So now that Ultimate Intrigue is out, when can we expect to see an AP for the vigilante. Call it Avengers Inner Sea, or Justice League of Golarion.
Eh, maybe something a little less corny, like um, Hell's Rebels or something badass like that.

My group plans to go back and redo Hell's Rebel exactly that way

Grand Lodge

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@Skeld, thanks for all the spoilers, you are the best. :-)

Can someone shed some light on:

Warlord (Skald)
Instigator (Skald)
Velvet Blade (Slayer)

Also I would love a general feel for the combat potential for the Vigilante. Are there pretty clear trap options? How flexible is it? What Tier would you put it? Are the non-casting options as strong as the casting archetypes? Could you imagine a party made entirely of Vigilantes?

Silver Crusade

London Duke wrote:

@Skeld, thanks for all the spoilers, you are the best. :-)

Also I would love a general feel for the combat potential for the Vigilante. Are there pretty clear trap options? How flexible is it? What Tier would you put it? Are the non-casting options as strong as the casting archetypes? Could you imagine a party made entirely of Vigilantes?

I wouldn't know about traps or tiers but I'm liking the Avenger specialization (Full BaB). A talent for an improved power attack, one that lets you Vital Strike on AoOs, not taking any AoOs or the AC penalty vs the target of your charge, and Pounce at 12th level is very nice. Not to mention the defensive talents.

Don't know about the casters that much but I could definitely see a full party of Vigilantes given the variety.


I'm extremely pleased by the large number of shapeshifting options in this book. I am going to have to see what I can figure out with the shapeshifting alchemist though, because he gives up *a lot* for those abilities.

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