I'd argue that reaction is why watering it down is better. While going full grimdark might be something you are okay with- And I'll admit, I like me some full grimdark- it's not okay for a lot of people. And ultimately this wasn't necessary. Full grimdark has been maturely and immaturely added to games by GMs forever. We don't need this type of support for it.
I'm not sure how to phrase this, but it feels much like the same violation of standards as if someone suddenly included grim dark without talking to the rest of the table. It's uncomfortable and even if I am okay with the grimdark topic in question the out of nowhereness of it would be grounds for me to stop a game and talk to the player about it.
And honestly, 'collectors editions because suppressed content' feels a little silly to me. We're talking about a minor entry in a minor section. Like, did earlier copies of Ultimate Equipment become big items before the changes to Snapleaf? I dunno, I don't think that makes sense.
I agree, nothing here really feels cult status worthy.
You do bring up a good point. Critique like this can remind us of the outside force of the 80ies that was trying to demonize a game we all love. I remember before TotalBiscuit talking about how sometimes people in his age range can be particularly kneejerk because of the implications.
Yet, every industry should have standards and some respect to the morals in which it is being released. People are expressing their negativity to this industry releasing the material the way they did so.
Most of us are not orators. We don't always react in a manner that makes it easy to respond to. When there is a crowd of uncouth auditory tools, perhaps even deaththreats, it is easy to dismiss as childish or immature. It's easy to justify a lack of being able to express one's outrage as being outraged for childish reasons.
However, let me share with you one of my favorite quotes from Martin Luther King Jr.
"A riot is the voice of the unheard."
When in a mass such as that the internet gives us it is near impossible to make our voices matter to those around us. Perhaps sometimes these mass threats and negative attention are unjustified or justified for dark reasons. However, I would implore everyone to try to understand intent. Understanding is a gift of humanity, and a lack of it our greatest bane.
Perhaps whether or not it is okay to include truly terrible acts of evil at a table should depend on the table. Perhaps it is acceptable to include setting material to support the darkest paths.
It's not okay to include a deific obedience style ability for this. We don't need deific obediences for NPCs. It's not a helpful GM tool. It's a format that invites players to look at and consider it. For such pure evil a line about his followers' actions would've been more appropriate.
It's not okay to include as little warning as this book does. Warning are not about existing or not. They should be appropriate to the content within. The warnings in similar books of DnD's history were far better at exploring the ideas of clear consent to use such materials this book pays lip service to.
It's not okay to do so while the issues of sexual abuse are being laid front and stage for American without some respect to the context into which the material is being released.
It's not okay to be slow to act after realizing how bad this is.
Yep, this should be fine. N. Jolly usually keeps up to date with these threads. (And clearly my color is best color. :p #vain)
If I recall correctly, the archetypes were written and then another person on the team went back and added Suggested Shinobi Talents. I would assume this is a disconnect between the two and would advise ignoring the suggested talents were it is in error.
So, here's a thought. I was looking at Spheres of Power again and then at the clunky "Combat Training for Non-Spheres of Might Classes" table. So, why not handle non-spheres of might classes the same way spheres of power did? A more personal approach would be more fitting. Especially for classes like the Rogue that would focus on scout and scoundrel type of spheres.
A rogue may combine combat spheres and talents to create powerful martial techniques. Strikers are considered Proficient practitioners.
This replaces the rogue talents gained at 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th levels.
As an aside, I wouldn't mind that treatment for Spheres of Power characters either. Giving an update treatment to elementalist, mageknight, and maybe even combat hedgewitch would be aces.
(Forgive me if someone suggested something similar already. I haven't read through all the thread.)
Ah yes, sorry. It is completely intented to be taken multiple times. If it does not say that, I deserve a few floggings.
As to the second question, replace. You cannot also have a specilization. Hopefully there is more than enough to make up for that for you.
There just comes a point where you've optimised enough.
Le gasp! Don't tell the high level power builders that!
But yea, I don't understand avoiding multiclassing. One of my favorite parts of builds! Cheesy multiclassing for daaays. XD But, in general I definitely would rather have a good CC or nitch option over more raw damage. Why I like the Brawler so much more. Though, Style Strikes are super awesome. Even if it feels like Flying Kick just outshines the rest for being so mandatory.
Now the thing that keeps me from using the katana and just sticking with fists is this: a CR 12 creature has 160 HP according to the table. Both monks will drop their foe in two rounds by themselves, or one round if they have a buddy putting out at least as much damage as them. So why bother with the katana and multiclassing if it isn't enough to go from two-shotting an enemy to one-shotting them?
This is actually a fairly interesting and often overlooked point. What does winning the DPR Olympics actually do for your character?
Of course, not every monster is the average. There can definately be those that are abnormal. And though the Katana might be more costly, I am not sure multiclassing on a martial can be counted as a real disadvantage. I don't think Monk has thay much stuff that loosing a Monk level is a big deal. And furthermore for most of your career (barring games that stop at level 12) you will be ahead a little bit more because 12 is a key level for unarmed strike damage.
Honestly, I will probably never play either. But from what is presented the Monk with the Katana has a much more tempting target for enchantments than the unarmed Monk.
1: Core Full-Attacks for a Unchained ability to move and full attack.
I would err on the side of John's answer. While damage numbers for high optimized campaigns repeatable report the Kineticist is under performing in damage, this doesn't take into account how much "cheaper" they are than damage monsters in terms of resources and their utility abilities.
I would be very careful what type of bonus drinking gives you. Cutting Gather Power for an ability to drink away the Burn from a blast would be fine. Probably even a strict downgrade. Unlimited utility wild talents would break the class though.
Texas Snyper wrote:
I dunno, the post title is telling me to stay away.
Heheh, the name actually comes from my YouTube channel. I've found it was infinitely easier for people to remember and type in than my real name and the condentation was mean to be along the lines of, "This Texan is super scary good at taking out people in games."
Ha, not an indictment; no worries.
Not taken as such! ^_^ I appreciate typos being pointed out to me.
There are more than a few typos in all the examples given. Most of them have already been found, but the final product will be edited by a professional. (I.E. not my terrible english. XD )
*flails into thread*
So, the first book... Is litterally pages from finished. I have the art and over 90% written. In fact, so is the second book.
The bad news? I hit a writting block of epic proportions. The intress expressed does help me power through it though.
This is exactly what I've been looking for for literal weeks. I hope this is still in development; if so, my journey may finally be at an end. One thing though: any chance of a feat/archetype that'll tie class abilites to DEX or CHA? I'm not above bribing you to include one.
For general purposes, chapter 2 will be more up your alley as chapter 1 will focus on elemental races. That said, chapter 2 might hit hot off the heels of 1 since I have delayed FAR too long. (Curse this block!) And Chapter 1 has a lovely set of feats and wild talents for Cha as well as style feats for earth based around Str. Even though they are focused on the elemental races, I did try to put a bit of a basic starter kit of general feats and talents for all to help make builds buildable.
There was a 3e divergent game I played where it did address having multiple armor suits on, but the cost was that you only got the armor bonus of the armor on top. The rest were clothes you just happened to have on under the armor. (Though you did get the benefits of any special mundane abilities such if a suit makes concealing a weapon easier that's fine.) There were rules like, you can't wear a light suit over a medium suit for obvious reasons. Basically just, common sense things though I think their example character wore two sets of medium armor. One of which was basically a sci-fi flight jacket.
I would probably rule in favor of that. Given that there is no particular reason really to not.
If you do go with Overwhelming Soul, pairing it with Elemental Annihilator is a fun way to get a mental stat for a two-handed fighting build's damage. Dump strength, grab Weapon Finesse at 1st, and then pre-req free Power Attack at 2nd. Since both archetypes hurt your utility talents and diminish the importance of composite blasts (without actually overlapping), the two stack nicely so long as you go with a physical blast.
This is actually a fair smart way to go about it. And goes nicely thematically with an Ifrit.
Veiled Illusionist works on pretty much every form of casting chassis. The worse is probably the most obvious Arcane classes, unless you are pulling Words of Power shenanigans. You can even go with Druid, but getting the requisite Illusion spells on your list to qualify for the PrC is slightly tricky. But, a Supernaturalist or Feyspeaker can easily manage it about a level late. It's almost strictly worse than Cleric, but eh. I like Druids.
There's also Enchanting Courtesan which I suppose is a Enchantment version of Veiled Illusionist. Sounds super good for social games.
Actually, Ultimate Intrigue's antiscying goodies are fair game for Unchained Rogue already.
I'm a bit timid spliting levels. The more instant kill sneak attack abilities you have the better. I could swear there is like a Ninja or Rogue way to assassinate both can get and the normal capstone for Rogue.
True seeing doesn't 'spot creatures who are simply hiding' in PF, and it says 'sees invisible creatures or objects normally' which doesn't sound like it calls out that they're invisible exactly, it just negates invis.
That does negate the concealment granted by invisiblity. So, in general I would suggest not joining that arms race. Unless you have a way of winning like a level 20 Ninja. Ninja might be more reliable for mage slaying.
You have to play a Rogue like, well, a Rogue if you want to beat that challenge.
In other words, there shouldn't BE a combat. There should be a surprise round and a lot of Batman style prep. Work out which instant kill is your best approach, and then stick to that. Be the Wizard's BFF able to lie out your teeth and backstab him. Sneak up while he is asleep. Something like that.
Of course, in theory sneaking up while a Wizard is asleep at level 20 should be a problem if he chooses to be on another plane. Divination is less of a problem than people would believe. Among other things you have two talents that avoid divination spells for DC 15 + Rogue Level. Being careful and aware of the different spells that can track people will make it relatively easy.
If the Wizard was instead a Psychic though, Akashic Form would screw you incredibly hard. Divination Wizard's Forewarn is tricky to outmaneuver too. But, it's definitely possible.
N. Jolly wrote:
Nyan~ Good thing I kept pestering you to read it.
So, turns out I am later than I thought. A mix of very unfortunate personal situations for those on the project ended up holding us up. However! The end is very much in sight. The art is all set and I'm touching up the chapter before laying out the PDF.
In the meantime, I have a book out through Purple Duck Games for Vigilantes out there.
I would stay away from magus, the spell list is light on utility.
Or you could just take Spell Blending for every Magus Arcana and still be a vastly better 6th level caster than the Unchained Eldritch Scoundrel. Two skill points just ain't worth it for that many barren levels. And Sneak Attack becomes a lot less valuable when it falls below 1/3rd of level progression.
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
If I were going for Eldritch Knight, I would go for Wizard, not Arcanist or Sorcerer. When you take levels in a Prestige Class, you don't get your Class Abilities from your old Arcane class, and what Arcanist and Sorcerer have over Wizard is mostly those Class Abilities.
The reason why Arcanist is the archetype. It gets an exploit that uses CL for their main class feature, the Black Blade. It's basically the only way I would play Eldritch Knight honestly. You can also take Spellstrike with the weapon. Though, I'm sure most would rather have Spell Combat.
On the other hand, I think the build presented technically can't take a Extra Arcanist Exploit for Spellstrike until 5th because you don't have an Arcanist Exploit class feature until then. Not a huge deal, but I think that's supposed to be how it works.
If you can, another great trick is playing a variant multiclass oracle. *points at battle mystery* That, you want that. Skill at arms saves you the bare pure martial level.
Milo v3 wrote:
You realize that the damage we're talking about is you wanting a non-legendary pokemon to melt the planet simply by existing right? I think it'd be a lot more reasonable that it's flamethrower attack deals at least 4d6 damage (which is how much damage a flamethrower does in Pathfinder), rather than infinite damage auto-apocalypse caused by slugma simply evolving into it.
You are sciencing wrong. Temperatures three times a Magcargo have existed on planet earth in the form of Lightning Bolts. Granted, they exist as a flash in the pan, but there is a huge difference between something's inner temperature and it's outer temperature.
Milo v3 wrote:
So? You're giving it power equal to a god.
As The Sideromancer correctly points out, there are "normal" Pokemon that battle gods. And that's in terms of the Uber tier, where Pokemon are fought at their absolute best in a competitive format. A "wild god" is far less frightening and easy to take down. Heck, there are SEVERAL demi-gods and Regigigas in the PU tier. On par with Raticate.
In the Pokemon world, a rat will take on demi-gods. Oh, and the being that gave the world emotions is NU. Have fun!
Milo v3 wrote:
That's exactly my point in reverse. Why would a Pokemon do damage as low as 1d6 fire damage? From my point of view, it looks stupid and feels stupid for these monsters to do extremely low damage.
We are talking about a fully evolved fire-type Pokemon. It's CORE body temperature is hotter than the Sun's SURFACE. For people who aren't aware, the Sun's surface is no where near "hotter than the Sun." I can come up with far more terrifying entries, such as Alakazam or Gardevoir, without even thinking. Fully evolved Pokemon are far better suited to mythic or gestalt games than even trying to fit into low CR.
On another note, a level 1 Weedle (one of the weakest Pokemon) should at least be as or more dangerous than a Venomous Snake. And a swarm of them isn't remotely dangerous to a level 5 Bulbasaur. Magcargo are fully evolved level 38 Pokemon. Somehow my eyeball math isn't putting them on the same level as an Elder Fire Elemental.
How is that so much different from "a wizard did it?" I am well aware of what is expressed in Pokedexes. But isn't it more fun to have characters reseaching what keeps Magcargo in check rather than dismissing it out of hand?
These are inherently high powered magic ridden creatures. In a game where Wish exists we will just dismiss those as too absurd?
I also suggest not taking the Pokedex too literally when it gives out a number, otherwise you have magcargoes running around melting everything.
I personally would disagree. Pokemon show a powerful set of abilities. I think people undersell their abilities to be more in line with common creatures, but they are supposed to be extremely extraordinary. The anime is not really a faithful interpretation. Ninetales, a not very heavily stated Pokemon, can use mind control and turn people into Pokemon.
The first thing I would suggest is a Pokemon sub-type being designed with the appoperate Pokemon type rules spelled out in it.
N. Jolly wrote:
So, any news on when we should expect the first volume of this to come out? Also obvious thread bump is obvious.
The ETA is the next few weeks, though I would be leaning towards three weeks. The artist has half of the drawings done and the editor hasn't gotten her hands on it yet. We're looking at about 40+ pages of content with some great traditional art and a handful of things left for me to finish writing. I took a break to write some Vigilante books for a few publishers, and am coming back to it fresh next week (in a few days) to finish up the remaining pieces!
After the artist finishes I'll assemble it in adobe and check back over the rules on how to get a 3P product officially released. Before then, I might set up a temporary system so that people can buy it directly from me via Patron or PayPal.
In the meantime, does anyone have any desires or wishes for the first chapter? New things you would like to see for races who should have a deep connection to Kineticists?
The Havocker does not select a patron, nor do they receive patron spells. The text should probably include a note at the bottom of the ability where it usually says what it alters or replaces, but I don't see how you can read the replacement ability description and come to the conclusion they do keep a patron.
Because I didn't believe it could possibly be that bad?
Because I assumed from the poorly written flavor text it was implying in addition to parton spells?
Because the standardized format tells me if it is not at the bottom it is not traded?
Because that level of terrible just can't be believed?
Because honestly, what?
I'm sorry. I still don't believe you.
That can't be right at all. Nope.
My brain refuses to accept this information.
It is not at the bottom. They have to remain. Your patron grants you a disipline as well. I'm... I think I am actually in the denile stage?
Let's assume for a moment this heresy is true. In that case... Is the Witch spell list really good enough to make it a Tier II class? Or is this a Tier III archetype?
Oh, in a home game I would absolutely agree. I just wouldn't count on that for PFS at all. While you can probably get away with it with some people, others might peg you for it and near as I can tell they wouldn't be wrong.
Here's the relevant FaQs. And if you look at anything from Ultimate Intrigue you will notice the new wording on everything that applies to both. This implies (though doesn't state) the direction Pathfinder is moving in.
And again, I totally expect errata fixing past things to include this wording. I'm just saying that RaW the word "like" is very shakey ground in Pathfinder and often ruled against.
My own possibly wrong self since I can't remember where I saw this at wrote:
TBF, a while back it was originally ruled that having a spell-like counts as casting a spell. ... However, they changed that and have been moving in the direction that the two are distinct.
Well, they are spell-like, as in simular but not as. TBF, a while back it was originally ruled that having a spell-like counts as casting a spell. Which lead to early access PrCs. However, they changed that and have been moving in the direction that the two are distint.
Like I said, a bit daft. If you wanna ask your GM if things like Spell Focus work, by all means do. I think Spell Focus is just legacy wording errors myself.
Ability Focus does work, but no way on that in PFS.
Mean Dean wrote:
I didn't realize the Kitsune Magic racial trait wouldn't affect the Magical Tails abilities, the description in the book just says the DCs are CHA based so I just assumed it would work since they're enchantment effects.
Yeeeeah, it's a bit daft and some things should probably be errated for both.