The Flaxseed Pathfinder Lodge: Explore, Report, Cooperate!

Game Master Redelia

Outpost IV: Roll Dem Bones has just been officially announced here.

Thanks a lot to everyone contributing to the organization of these conventions! We all appreciate it!

As I am a GM/player that only focuses on Pathfinder first edition I have a question.

We already saw during the last convention that we need to be flexible to accommodate the GMs who want to offer games and also attract players that haven’t played these offered games.

Is it in any way possible to provide you with a list of games that we would like to GM so that you can select those that you think fits the theme of this convention?

Redelia wrote:

Outpost IV: Roll Dem Bones has just been officially announced here.

Thanks a lot to everyone contributing to the organization of these conventions! We all appreciate it!

As I am a GM/player that only focuses on Pathfinder first edition I have a question.

We already saw during the last convention that we need to be flexible to accommodate the GMs who want to offer games and also attract players that haven’t played these offered games.

Is it in any way possible to provide you with a list of games that we would like to GM so that you can select those that you think fits the theme of this convention?

For this convention, the organizers will be choosing scenarios based on what best fits the theme. There will actually even be a certain number of tables of each scenario, also chosen by the organizers. GMs will be able to pick from those existing tables, as will players. This is intended to give a 'feel' much more like an in person convention than is given in Gameday, our more freeform convention.

Requesting another VO ruling:

How would Cherry Blossom Spell work with spells like produce flame, create pit, or black tentacles that do damage from round to round, as a weapon attack, or circumstantially? Also, its wording seems inconsistent regarding whether a saving throw is truly necessary.

Outpost IV: Roll Dem Bones has just been officially announced here.

Oh Yes. I'll be Keen on this.

I think the problem is they call it a 'spell' - but it is a Metamagic Feat, so it leads to ambiguity.

I would (first glance) assume that every time they took damage from the spell they would be subject to the Feat, however once it is on there is no suggestion that there can be multiple effects of it - it 'ages them' to old or young age, so once that is done it is done.

Missing the ambiguity on a saving throw though.

My take is that if you normally get a save, then the save for that makes you immune to the stat damage, and if you don't normally get a save, then you are entitled to one against the stat damage.

I assume that it works as stated for multi round spells, which does make it quite powerful. But at +3 levels, it is already quite a bit hike in power required. Probably only once per person though as noted by Shifty above.

And I doubt it work with with create pit as it is not the spell that is doing the damage, rather the pit that is created (witness no spell resistance against it). Black tentacles and produce flame would be good candidates though.

My take is that if you normally get a save, then the save for that makes you immune to the stat damage, and if you don't normally get a save, then you are entitled to one against the stat damage

Yep.

And as mentioned, +3 levels is pretty steep, especially as the DC is still that of the underlying spell.

Hmm, how would that interact with a multiple hit spell like scorching ray or magic missile?

Would each bolt/ray/missile add the ability damage (subject to saves)?

Same as all the other metamagic spells - it is pretty good in that you could notionally get a bunch of saves into play, but they are saving against a L1 spell so the DC is pretty low.

Same as all the other metamagic spells - it is pretty good in that you could notionally get a bunch of saves into play, but they are saving against a L1 spell so the DC is pretty low.

And the melee brutes you want to soften up with this often have fortitude as their best save...

Still seems pretty fun for someone who has maxed out the DC of their magic missiles: make them make five saves every round.

I would (first glance) assume that every time they took damage from the spell they would be subject to the Feat, however once it is on there is no suggestion that there can be multiple effects of it - it 'ages them' to old or young age, so once that is done it is done.

I assume that it works as stated for multi round spells, which does make it quite powerful. But at +3 levels, it is already quite a bit hike in power required. Probably only once per person though as noted by Shifty above.

This confuses me - all the moreso for your claiming to agree with each other; which is it?

Shifty wrote:

I would (first glance) assume that every time they took damage from the spell they would be subject to the Feat, however once it is on there is no suggestion that there can be multiple effects of it - it 'ages them' to old or young age, so once that is done it is done.

GM Aerondor wrote:

I assume that it works as stated for multi round spells, which does make it quite powerful. But at +3 levels, it is already quite a bit hike in power required. Probably only once per person though as noted by Shifty above.

This confuses me - all the moreso for your claiming to agree with each other; which is it?

They are agreeing that the Cherry Blossom Spell can only apply its effect once per target. Spells with multiple rounds of damage have more chances to affect the target, but still only apply the effect once. So if the target makes its save in the first round, the second round of damage triggers another save vs. the Cherry Blossom effect. If, however, the target failed the save in the first round and was affected by the Cherry Blossom effect, there are no additional saves; the target has already been affected. It doesn't stack with itself.

Note, I'm not sure that I agree with that interpretation; I'm just pointing out what they are agreeing on. I don't see anything in this feat's description or other general Pathfinder rules that prevents a single spell that deals damage in multiple instances from triggering this effect each time it deals damage.

As above, you could potentially force a lot of saving throws.

"This is a magical aging effect, but it does not alter the creature’s true age—it merely simulates the effects of old age on the flesh or the reversion to a more infantile mental age". I'm reading that once you have applied this condition (old or young age) they are there, it doesn't deduct a certain amount (or percentage) or years. If they fail the save they are mentally old or young. They don't go through age stages etc. You age them to that 'age'. It doesn't say you can keep aging them older or younger.

I think it is an appallingly written feat as it leads in as a stat damage feat, yet then talks about aging - pick ONE mechanic and go with that.

I think it is an appallingly written feat as it leads in as a stat damage feat, yet then talks about aging - pick ONE mechanic and go with that.

Not only that, but only one of its possible effects lines up with a formal rule on character age. There are no rules for characters younger than "middle age" yet it presents a mental ability loss to simulate that. If the table at the link above had a column for "young" that included a -2 penalty to INT/WIS/CHA, then I'd be more inclined to say that the feat was invoking the aging mechanic and could only effect a target once. But since it introduces a new penalty that's not accounted for in the aging rules, I have a hard time saying whether that is the feat's intent or not. Since it doesn't clearly invoke a rules-based aging mechanic, I think we have to defer to the RAW in the feat, which only says "when ... takes damage from the spell...."

I think that can only be interpreted that if the spell deals damage multiple times, the target takes the penalty each time. I think there are synergies from that that could be overpowered, so I'd still be happy for a logical interpretation that doesn't allow that, but that's what I think RAW says.

I think that can only be interpreted that if the spell deals damage multiple times, the target takes the penalty each time. I think there are synergies from that that could be overpowered, so I'd still be happy for a logical interpretation that doesn't allow that, but that's what I think RAW says.

BUT with a save each time = mitigating factor?

Requesting yet more VO rulings (forgive me if it starts to feel like a juggling act, but these two should at least be simpler):

1) Could the fatigue/exhaustion from an Eldritch Font's abilities be remedied by the Wayfinder resonance of a Pale Green Ioun Prism? What other remedies besides resting might there be? If rest really IS the only cure for this kind of fatigue, it does seem prohibitively debilitating.

2) I long thought I knew the answer to this, but recent discussion has me doubting: DO Planetouched races, as [Native] Outsiders, enjoy full proficiency with simple and martial weapons? Considering they're often weaker than Core races by the standard of the Race-Point system, that might not be as overpowered as it may sound to some.

Requesting yet more VO rulings....

I should make clear that my postings yesterday about Cherry Blossom Spell were just the musings of a fellow player. I'm not a VO; my opinion should not be seen as a ruling, just part of the conversation.

I appreciated your dissenting opinion just the same, and I hope the VOs consider it.

[quote-IHiYC]How would Cherry Blossom Spell work with spells like produce flame, create pit, or black tentacles that do damage from round to round, as a weapon attack, or circumstantially? Also, its wording seems inconsistent regarding whether a saving throw is truly necessary.

If the spell in question deals damage over the course of more than one round then they would have the cherry blossom effect go off each round.

Could the fatigue/exhaustion from an Eldritch Font's abilities be remedied by the Wayfinder resonance of a Pale Green Ioun Prism? What other remedies besides resting might there be? If rest really IS the only cure for this kind of fatigue, it does seem prohibitively debilitating.

The Ioun Stone will not remove the fatigued / exhausted condition as only rest can cure it.

Eldritch Surge (Su): At 3rd level, an eldritch font can, as a swift action, pour more power into her spells and abilities. She can add 2 to the caster level and DC of a spell, or increase her effective arcanist level by 2 when using an arcanist exploit. She becomes fatigued upon using this ability. If she is already fatigued, she becomes exhausted. If she’s already exhausted, or something would prevent her from becoming fatigued or exhausted, she cannot use this ability. This ability does not stack with spending points from her arcane reservoir to increase the spell’s caster level or DC (as the arcane reservoir class feature). Only rest can remove fatigue or exhaustion caused by an eldritch surge—spells and abilities have no effect. This ability replaces the arcanist exploit gained at 3rd level.

I long thought I knew the answer to this, but recent discussion has me doubting: DO Planetouched races, as [Native] Outsiders, enjoy full proficiency with simple and martial weapons? Considering they're often weaker than Core races by the standard of the Race-Point system, that might not be as overpowered as it may sound to some.

Guess I am not fully understanding your intent with this question leading into PFS? Could you be a bit more specific on what you are looking into building or accomplishing?

Do Planetouched races, as [Native] Outsiders, enjoy full proficiency with simple and martial weapons?

The Ganzi Oddity "Weaponplay" seems to suggest they don't:

19–20: Weaponplay (Ex) Ganzis with lineages that link to the valkyries manifest their heritage in their skill in combat. Such ganzis are always proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and they can qualify for feats normally available only to fighters (such as Weapon Specialization) even if they don’t have any fighter class levels.

PRD

If ganzi (as Outsiders with the [native] subtype) were already automatically proficient with simple and martial weapons, there would be no need to state that as part of a racial trait.

Is there a way to re-do a character's ability scores after 1st level? It took me longer than that to realize I built my sorcerer all wrong for what I want to do with her, and I don't want to have to start from scratch.

Is there a way to re-do a character's ability scores after 1st level? It took me longer than that to realize I built my sorcerer all wrong for what I want to do with her, and I don't want to have to start from scratch.

The only way I know of that comes to mind is via the Rebuild boon (not sure if that's exactly what it's called); if you have any unused/spare boons, you might be able to acquire it via the boon trading thread...

Assuming that is Laafdahni you are referencing, at least she is only level 3. My -1 PC has pretty much just been put to pasture because I'm not that interested in playing what I built. He is level 8, so realizing you didn't do things like you wanted even happens to higher level PC's.

Anyway, I'm sure there are people here who would love to help theory-craft ways to do what you want to do with your existing stats, so you could always let us know your plan and go from there. Sometimes that can work. Otherwise, I can't think of a way to change base ability scores other than just starting over. :(

Is there a way to re-do a character's ability scores after 1st level? It took me longer than that to realize I built my sorcerer all wrong for what I want to do with her, and I don't want to have to start from scratch.

The only way is with a rebuild boon.

Unfortunately, retraining from the Ultimate Campaign book only lets you retrain your stat increases from levels 4th, 8th, etc.

If all you need to do is increase a stat or two, belts of physical stat or headband of mental stat is a good way.

Yes, it is Laafdahni. Mostly I want to bump up her Dex, and I was willing to sacrifice her Int, Str, and maybe even a little Wis to do that. It sounds like buying items to boost her Dex is the best way to go. Thanks for the input!

My idea was to have her be a ray spell specialist. Not the most powerful plan for a build, but I find that I have more fun with characters that have weaknesses that they're committed to for some reason. As an Elemental Sorcerer, she gets a bunch of rays per day (8 at this point), and she can't seem to hit the side of a barn right now (hence Dex boosting). Knowing that ray spells get sparse in the middle-to-upper levels, she'll use those levels to diversify her utility.

Since rays target touch, another option is to work on making sure your targets are flat-footed. Flat-footed touch AC is going to be awfully near 10 more often than not. Combat Expertise -> Improved Feint -> Ranged Feint is completely not optimized, but would certainly work. Fishing for ways to get concealment to hide, or quick invisibility would also work.

Fishing for ways to get concealment to hide, or quick invisibility would also work.

I think the latter there is pretty doable for a Sorceress.

Weapon Focus (Ray) would be an awfully good idea; you might even consider taking Fighter/Eldritch Knight levels - then you could achieve Weapon Specialization (Ray)!

Taking Rogue levels and (assuming you can meet the requirements) becoming an Arcane Trickster could also be good, although that would cost you more caster levels.

Even if possible, I think rebuilding to boost Dex is a very expensive way of improving your to-hit. So is anything that requires multiple feats (it's a multi-level project).

I have zero experience with elemental sorcerers, but aside from the dex belt, are there other feats or items that you can use to improve your hit percentage - buffing spells that you could pick up, etc?

Bocke is in a similar situation - he has a pretty low attack modifier for targeting regular AC. When he uses Rapid Shot, it lowers his attack even further (+5 vs regular AC). He picked up the wand of bless and has divine favor as a spell, which he uses to bump his to-hit. He can also use a judgement to bump his attack (although he usually uses it to bump damage).

Feats: Weapon focus (ray)

Spells: aspect of the falcon, true strike

Combos: get a goz mask and an item which gives you free-action or permanent concealment. That way you always target flat-footed touch AC.

As you level up, a bigger concern is overcoming SR.

@Worah,

Buying items to boost Dex is good. You already have Point Blank Shot, so getting Precise Shot (to remove the penalty when they are in melee) is also worth it.

I would not suggest Arcane Trickster. You would lose a lot more in caster levels than you would gain as a ray specialist.

Eldritch Knight may be worthwhile but still requires you to multi class in order to get the martial weapon proficiency. On the other hand, going this way would give you more of the combat feats that would help your rays hit.

Also look at debuffs like blindness, spectral hand with touch of blindness or touch of gracelessness, and that sort of thing. Anything that would make an opponent easier to hit in ranged combat.

It's possible to get into Arcane Trickster with only one non-caster level, thanks to Accomplished Sneak Attacker if you like the idea of the class.

I wish there was something like that for channeling. I have a cleric that lost a die due to an archetype and it bums me out.

I wish there was something like that for channeling. I have a cleric that lost a die due to an archetype and it bums me out.

*looks at his Bomb dice*

Cry me a river....

I wish there was something like that for channeling. I have a cleric that lost a die due to an archetype and it bums me out.

For out-of-combat, extra channel will make the difference.

For out of combat I'll always depend on the heal stick. Cheap and effective. Nothing like a nice big selective channel, though, to keep the party rumbling or deal with haunts.

Thanks for the suggestions on Laafdahni's build, folks! I'll keep this info in mind as I level her up. (4th level coming soon!)

One thing I'm a bit unclear on: Can Kineticists use occult skill unlocks?

Tangentially-related question: Are there any ways other than class levels/feats/traits to pick up Survival as a class skill - something that one can earn by spending Prestige, maybe?

While I'm at it: Does enervation affect Dhampirs and the like the same way it does undead?

One thing I'm a bit unclear on: Can Kineticists use occult skill unlocks?

Tangentially-related question: Are there any ways other than class levels/feats/traits to pick up Survival as a class skill - something that one can earn by spending Prestige, maybe?

While I'm at it: Does enervation affect Dhampirs and the like the same way it does undead?

Regarding Survival, there is a boon that came out in 2013 called Shoanti Quah Friend. Besides giving you a +1 on attack rolls vs. giants, you either become specialized in Survival or learn the Shoanti language for free. I think there's another Shoanti boon as well with various clans that lets you pick one clan and the ability associated with that clan.

I do believe enervation would affect dhampirs just like undead. But, I could be wrong.

I thought skill unlocks weren't allowed in PFS, but, once again, I could be wrong.

I thought skill unlocks weren't allowed in PFS, but, once again, I could be wrong.

You're thinking of Unchained skill unlocks, which are not exactly verboten, merely restricted to Rogues.

That said, occult skill unlocks are an entirely different kettle of fish.

For out of combat I'll always depend on the heal stick. Cheap and effective. Nothing like a nice big selective channel, though, to keep the party rumbling or deal with haunts.

Phylactery of Positive Channeling gives +2d6.

Headband slot though

You got me excited until I read that second line.

Tangentially-related question: Are there any ways other than class levels/feats/traits to pick up Survival as a class skill - something that one can earn by spending Prestige, maybe?

There's also the boon called Xenophile.

"You may include with this boon any number of Chronicle sheets that enable you to play a character of a different race. Each such Chronicle sheet grants you skill specialization in a particular skill associated with that race. When you become specialized in a skill it becomes a class skill for you. If you already have that skill as a class skill from another source (or gain it as a class skill later), you instead gain a +1 competence bonus on those skill checks.

Aasimar: Diplomacy
Android, Dhampir, Nagaji or Tengu: Perception
Catfolk: Survival
Changeling: Knowledge (arcana)
Fetchling or Oread: Knowledge (arcana)
Goblin or Wayang: Stealth
Grippli or Vanara: Climb
Ifrit: Perform (any one)
Kitsune: Acrobatics
Ratfolk: Use Magic Device
Samsaran: Knowledge (history or religion)
Skinwalker: Handle Animal
Suli: Sense Motive
Sylph: Fly
Tiefling: Bluff
Undine: Swim
Vishkanya: Escape Artist"

So, yeah, you need a Catfolk boon to get Survival.

I'll point out that this boon does not have the text that requires you to mulch the race boon to gain this bonus, so you can still play that race on another character.

One thing I'm a bit unclear on: Can Kineticists use occult skill unlocks?

I don't believe so, not without the Psychic Sensitivity feat anyway.

Characters capable of casting psychic spells or who have the Psychic Sensitivity feat gain access to skill unlocks

Kineticists don't have spells (as far as I know, I've never played one), just some spell-like abilities.

While I'm at it: Does enervation affect Dhampirs and the like the same way it does undead?

I was leaning toward no on this, the negative energy FAQ would suggest to me that they intended Dhampir's negative energy affinity racial trait to refer strictly to damage, but I did a search on the org play discord and found a post from the RVC for the online region that said Dhampir's should be treated as undead for the purposes of Enervation, so it seems a safe bet to run it that way. It was from 2016 though.

Here is the information concerning the outage today and not being able to sign into Paizo. They appear to be back up now, but you have to go into your settings and manually delete you cookies associated with Paizo first to be able to sign in. (May take several attempts. Mine took deleting the cookies three times before it stuck.

Error with Signing-in Post

If anyone needs assistance or questions I am on Discord (Tyranius#2300)

@ Tyranius,

I'm Hiding In Your Closet is unable to sign in again, despite following the provided solution, thus unable to otherwise contact support.

I've mentioned you being on discord, though i do not know if he has an account to contact you with.

Do you have another way for me to get in contact with him or an email address? If so PM it to me. I will get in contact with IHiyC and try to walk him through a few more things.

Otherwise he may have to make a quick and free discord account if not.

Here are a few more instructions from Paizo to try as well.

Clearing Paizo Cookies (Link)

He could also try e-mailing or calling support from the Help menu, though I don't think they're available over the weekend.

I WAS able to contact support, they just said not to expect help until Tuesday.

Either they've figured something out in the interim, or...I dunno, sunspots and quantum mechanics :P.

Welcome back!

He could also try e-mailing or calling support from the Help menu, though I don't think they're available over the weekend.

Customer Support has been extremely backlogged as of late.