The Flaxseed Pathfinder Lodge: Explore, Report, Cooperate!

Game Master Hmm

When a PC dies, what should the other players do?

I have only seen a few deaths above the very low levels (where you just have to suck it up because coming back is too expensive).

At mid-levels, the first two PC deaths I saw involved the player using all of their PP, burning through cash, selling equipment... then having some help from players when they still struggled to get the money together.

In a recent game, two PCs died and one player told us that bringing back players was a group effort, that we should pay for her raise dead and that this was the standard way of doing things.

Were my first experiences unusual? Should I expect the party to pay most of the costs involved? What’s normal?

There is no normal. Different tables will have different expectations.

I'm always happy to pay 1/6th of the cost out of the loot, but other than that there's nothing formal and YMMV.

I'm pretty much with Shifty on this.

If my character has cash, generally they will contribute. But that goes for things like restoration spells and such as well.

Of course if the character/players was being a tosser I might think otherwise. Characters who die deaths from doing dumb stuff... well, they should really use their PP - that is one of the things they are there for. Characters who are at the front line doing their bit and get hit by a x4 crit from out of the blue... that could be any of us, and deserve some help.

It has been a couple months, but the last time I read the PFS Guide I thought it had mentioned that Prestige Points could only be used by the player who earned them, but the party could pool their GP and even sell gear to help with the cost.

Again, it has been a while, so I could be wrong.

I'm pretty much with Shifty on this.

If my character has cash, generally they will contribute. But that goes for things like restoration spells and such as well.

Of course if the character/players was being a tosser I might think otherwise. Characters who die deaths from doing dumb stuff... well, they should really use their PP - that is one of the things they are there for. Characters who are at the front line doing their bit and get hit by a x4 crit from out of the blue... that could be any of us, and deserve some help.

I am part of the game this is about.

The two players that died actually heroically stood at the frontline and contributed significantly so that the other three players in the party can survive.

The two players whose PCs deceised already are paying 4 pp each for the restorations. So I really think all players should support to get the two raised which costs about 11k so around 2200 gp each.

Just my thoughts.

Start digging in the pockets then.

Freedom isn't free
It costs folks like you and me
And if we don't all chip in
We'll never pay that bill
Freedom isn't free
No, there's a hefty in' fee.
And if you don't throw in your buck 'o five
Who will?

I think in that case it would be fair. I typically help out but the lions share falls on the character that needs to be recovered. I'm with the others though. If they do something stupid then it's on them. If I did something stupid that caused them to die (and this has happened since I was RPing a stupid charactrer and had him do something stupid) then I pick up a major chunk of the bill. It's a judgment call.

I find locally we default to use your prestige first, since that's a good use for it, and then groups split any additional costs.

Groups I play with regularly, like my seeker group, we do it differently and just split the gold costs at the end of the adventure for all recovery stuff (Resses, restos, remove curses, etc.)

Yep, noral’s character made a serious contribution.

This poses a follow-up question: is my wizard less deserving because she hung back away from the breath weapon that would have killed her with one failed save?

Were you throwing what you had at the enemy or hanging back doing everything to protect yourself rather than contributing to the fight?

If the first, no less deserving.

I think my PC did the most damage, all out of spells (well apart from fireball because the creature was immune).

I guess I need to think differently about prestige. I’ve refused to spend it on cool stuff for my character and have treated it as purely revival funds.

I learned with one of my Starfinder characters that it is good to have sufficient prestige (or equivalent) to rescue your own character, particularly in times of TPK.

On the other hand, I have had others contribute to saving my character and I have been happy to contribute in times of need for others.

Once you get 16, you're pretty well covered. It doesn't hurt you to spend points beyond that on useful consumables or vanity options.

Alternatively, PP can put you way ahead on wealth and preparedness that mitigate risk of death.

Prestige and Cash in order to Raise Dead

It has been a couple months, but the last time I read the PFS Guide I thought it had mentioned that Prestige Points could only be used by the player who earned them, but the party could pool their GP and even sell gear to help with the cost.

Again, it has been a while, so I could be wrong.

Prestige points can only be used by the character who earned them -- in most cases. There is a current player boon that one has a chance of winning at OurPost II called 'Debt to Society' that allows you to use prestige for an ally's raise dead.

(I wish this were not a boon, and just a general guide option... but alas, it's tied to a boon.)

Debt to the Society: Your constant dedication and service to the Pathfinder Society has earned you considerable recognition and trust. If you have at least 20 Fame and have at least 4 Prestige Points, you may spend all of your remaining Prestige Points to pay for a single casting of raise dead on any ally’s remains—including your own— while in a settlement with a population of at least 5,000 residents. In each successive scenario you must spend all Prestige Points earned to repay your debt to the society until you spend a total 20 Prestige Points, including those you initially spent for the spell. Record the scenario name (or number), date, and initial Prestige Points spent on the first line below. Document future Prestige Point payments on this Chronicle sheet and on each individual Chronicle sheet where the Prestige Points were earned. Once the total Prestige Points recorded below equal 20, your debt is considered paid in full.

Here's what the guide has to say about using cash and prestige:

Players are encouraged to share their physical resources in order to resolve any and all conditions. They may not pool Prestige Points, even if they're from the same faction. Characters can also sell off gear, including a dead character's gear, at 50% of its listed value to raise money to purchase a spell that will resolve the condition, though they can only do so in a settlement and they cannot sell off any items found during the current adventure that they haven't purchased. Characters can use the rewards from the Chronicle sheet they earned in order to resolve any conditions.

[snip]

In Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild play, you can never buy, sell, or trade items with another player, but you may allow another player to borrow an item for the duration of an adventure. Characters may also expend consumables on behalf of their party members. Players are permitted to spend character gold to help a party member purchase spellcasting services such as raise dead or remove disease. This includes pooling money to buy breath of life or raise dead scrolls or potions for use in the game. If the PCs buy an item using pooled money that they do not use during the adventure, one PC may purchase the item at the end of the adventure, paying the item's full cost. If no PC wants to purchase the item, the PCs must sell the item back for half value, reimbursing each PC for half of what she paid into the pool.

So you are good to pool money and sell gear to help with the cost. So that's all rules. No one is required to help out in the case of a PC death, but it is something that I hope that party members do. Explore! Cooperate! Report!

Prestige and Cash to Prevent Death

Alternatively, PP can put you way ahead on wealth and preparedness that mitigate risk of death.

Agreed! 'Be Prepared' is a great secondary motto for Society Play. Check out this list for more ideas!

PFS Items that can save you in 2019

I liberally used prestige and cash throughout my PFS career to pick up things that could save me or my party, and never regretted it.

Personal Experience with PC Deaths

I learned with one of my Starfinder characters that it is good to have sufficient prestige (or equivalent) to rescue your own character, particularly in times of TPK.

On the other hand, I have had others contribute to saving my character and I have been happy to contribute in times of need for others.

I remember that TPK. It was the first time one of my own characters went to face Pharasma. I thought I'd lost her forever, but then realized she had sufficient fame to be raised.

I will say that coming back from a death is painful. In PFS, Bret's and I started with two characters in a paired build, Omar and Zahra Senay. Bret's character, Omar, died at Level 3 and the whole party chipped in to raise him. Both Omar and Zahra spent everything they had to have him come back. We had to use GM credit for an entire level to start them on the path to recovery, and then were weaker than other player characters until about 5th or 6th level. But after that, we caught up, and now the two characters are seekers. I'm glad that we paid for his resurrection, and that we got that character back, because the stories that we had with those two were great.

It was worth it.

Hmm

← But this guy?

Not so much.

Once you get 16, you're pretty well covered. It doesn't hurt you to spend points beyond that on useful consumables or vanity options.

I thought 29: raise+restoration(x2)+recovery?

Negative levels can persist through to other scenarios if need be, and recovery generally only happens if the party TPKs.

There is also the option to pay 1 (2 restorations or 1 raise dead) with PPs and the other with GP.

Just a thought.

Can you use prestige points to buy 375gp's worth of diamond dust?

Can you and any other players then loan this diamond dust to another player for them to use even if it gets consumed?

Can you buy spell services (assuming in a large enough town to purchase the spell raise dead.) to raise dead using the diamond dust you have whatever the source?

If so then it seems that any combination of prestige points and gold could from any number of players, could be used to pay for raise dead and remove negative levels.

While it does violate the spirit of the rules quoted above by Hmm, is it a valid process?

You can use consumables on other players. Witness the number of CLW wands that get passed about.

You may spend 2pp for 375 (or actually 750gp really - why not do the full amount:?) of diamond dust. (free purchase, p22 of role playing guide)

You can sell your diamond dust if you want (for half price). So if you really wanted to go against the spirit of the PP ruling, but stay within the rules, you could probably contribute that way. But note limits of spending PP in a scenario, GM's have a "be reasonable" clause

GMs can choose to limit the number of times Prestige Points may be spent during an adventure if the players become excessive and time is of the essence.

My hunter got crit by an enemy power-attacking with a greataxe a couple of weeks ago. My first PC death.

I was really glad to have the 50-50 option for a raise dead since I didn't have enough PP to pay outright, but all in cash would have been rough. I think the other players likely would have helped if I had asked, but we were three with a pregen and one of the other players was still fairly new.

The best part was my PC wielding the axe that killed her for the rest of the scenario, finishing up with critting the boss at the end with it!

You can use consumables on other players. Witness the number of CLW wands that get passed about.

You may spend 2pp for 375 (or actually 750gp really - why not do the full amount:?) of diamond dust. (free purchase, p22 of role playing guide)

You can sell your diamond dust if you want (for half price). So if you really wanted to go against the spirit of the PP ruling, but stay within the rules, you could probably contribute that way. But note limits of spending PP in a scenario, GM's have a "be reasonable" clause

p23 wrote:

GMs can choose to limit the number of times Prestige Points may be spent during an adventure if the players become excessive and time is of the essence.

Items bought with prestige normally have a resale value of zero, likely to prevent the warping of the wealth curve by prestige.

Good catch.

I'm looking at Broken Chains (a module) and the chronicle does not say how much XP or prestige the PCs get if they complete it.

Any ideas?

Normal modules grant 3XP and 4PP. Located at Appendix 4, Steps 2 and 3, pg36 of the Roleplaying Guild Guide.

Normal modules grant 3XP and 4PP. Located at Appendix 4, Steps 2 and 3, pg36 of the Roleplaying Guild Guide.

Cheers!

You're welcome! Any changes from the norm would be spelled out in the sanctioning document, such as We Be Goblins and the like.

The only module I have run before is Gallows of Madness, which does just that, so I had false expectations.

Happy Spring holidays everyone!

Happy Holidays!