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Rules Discussion

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Ed Reppert wrote:

Somebody makes a rule. Somebody else notes that the rule says X. Yet another somebody says "oh, that can't be right, it must be a typo."

Until it's officially corrected, it says X.

That is essentially my argument. The RAW gives wild morph both attacks at once, because thats how English works. Thats why I came to the forum. I'm hoping someone from paizo will see this and include an update to the phrasing in an eratta.


BjörnToKill wrote:
The RAW gives wild morph both attacks at once, because thats how English works.

It doesn't though.


Squiggit wrote:
BjörnToKill wrote:
The RAW gives wild morph both attacks at once, because thats how English works.
It doesn't though.

Did you see my origional post where I broke down word for word what it says and why it means that?


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When using an effect like enlarge, or the giant barbarian instinct, what happens if you use it in an enclosed room, or surrounded by enemies or allies? Some spells like dragon form specify that if there is no room to enlarge the spell is lost, but enlarge and giant instinct have no such language, which implies that there must be some other resolution, but I’ve got no idea what it is.


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BjörnToKill wrote:
Squiggit wrote:
BjörnToKill wrote:
The RAW gives wild morph both attacks at once, because thats how English works.
It doesn't though.
Did you see my origional post where I broke down word for word what it says and why it means that?

Not really though.

The sentence can be read both ways.

And since it never actually directly says that you combine the damage of each claw, it stands to reason that the primary way to be read is like every other Claws ability in the game:

"It changes both of your hands to claws that each deal x" that doesn't give you a combined attack in any way, shape or form.


Hi guys,

I didn't get the point regarding this skill: Learn a Spell.

For example: I'm druid Primal spellcasting. I have my book and I can prepare each morning the spells to use during the day. So, in which situation I can use the skill learn a spell, and how?


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For a druid you'll probably most likely use it to gain access to uncommon spells.


Squiggit wrote:
For a druid you'll probably most likely use it to gain access to uncommon spells.

Do you mean, that I can take spells from another tradition writing them on my book?


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Experience wrote:
Squiggit wrote:
For a druid you'll probably most likely use it to gain access to uncommon spells.
Do you mean, that I can take spells from another tradition writing them on my book?

No, this isn't about other Traditions, Uncommon is a tier of spell commonality, above Common but below Rare.

So as a Druid you only automatically get access to Common Primal spells.
You can cast Uncommon/Rare Primal spells if you Learned them, but you have to actually do that,
which requires either some ability that gives you that Access, or GM cooperation in finding scroll or NPC caster to Learn Uncommon spell from.

A Wizard is more likely to use Learn a Spell just because they can also use it to add more Common spells above and beyond their normal level allocation. (all of these spells they COULD have learned automatically at level-up, but the amount is limited, so they may want to Learn more) Of course, Wizards also can learn Uncommon/Rare Arcane spells if they manage to gain Access to them, which is roughly on par with how a Druid will use Learn a Spell with Uncommon/Rare spells.

This may not be 100% exhaustive, but here is quick parsing of Uncommon Primal spells via Archives of Nethys (listed with U in overview):
Detect Poision, Nondetection, Passwall, Tree Stride, Stone Tell, Plane Shift, Disjunction, Remake.


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Many standard Divine spells have variant effects based on "Deity alignment" or Favored Weapon,
yet Divine Sorceror casting doesn't involve any Deity worship and they don't seem intended to have any mechanical linkage.
(even if a Sorceror happens to also have Multiclass:Cleric or Champion, the Deity only is mechanically tied to Multiclass)
While using Caster Alignment would be simplest, that doesn't match the flavor of Aligned Bloodline abilities independent of caster Alignment.

MY QUESTION IS:

Does any Deity a Sorceror happens to worship (despite otherwise not mechanically linked to Sorceror casting) impact this?
If not, should Divine Bloodline Sorcerors use an "effective Deity Alignment" for these spells based on their Bloodline?
(Angel:Good, Demon:Chaotic Evil, Devil:Lawful Evil, Undead:Evil?)

In terms of Favored Weapon the solution isn't obvious, it seems each Divine Bloodline needs to specify "effective Deity Favored Weapon"?
Or possibly a generic "effective Deity Alignment -> Favored Weapon" rule could be enunciated, although Bloodline-specific seems more flavorful...

In addition to those specific Bloodlines,
non-Divine Sorcerors with Crossblooded Evolution can cast Divine Spells and thus need to resolve "Deity Alignment/Favored Weapon" as well.
Seemingly, they need to choose a specific Bloodline's Deity Alignment/Favored Weapon to use, or use own Alignment? (+ "Favored Weapon"?)

I expect Oracle will have wording for this from start, as all Oracles are directly affected (unlike Sorcerors where Divine Tradition is only subset of the class),
probably using caster's own Alignment (with generic Alignment->Weapon linkage) at least if Mystery doesn't have Alignment or Weapon implication of it's own?
(coming from 1E, none or at least very few Mysteries seem to carry Alignment associations, but Mystery dictated Favored Weapons seem widely plausible)


I have a doubt about class feats for spellcasters: i noted in the errata that wizards were given 1 at first level, while it was only for the universalist, so i noted all spellcasters don't have access to class feats until lvl 2, even thou they all have first level class feats.
I think i got the rules wrong somewhere but can't find where, i don't see the point in making them 1st level class feats if they can't be accessed before lvl 2
Already thank you for the help


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Furialcon wrote:

I have a doubt about class feats for spellcasters: i noted in the errata that wizards were given 1 at first level, while it was only for the universalist, so i noted all spellcasters don't have access to class feats until lvl 2, even thou they all have first level class feats.

I think i got the rules wrong somewhere but can't find where, i don't see the point in making them 1st level class feats if they can't be accessed before lvl 2
Already thank you for the help

You can pick them up as a human. Or if there's any other source of "pick a level 1 class feat"


shroudb wrote:
Furialcon wrote:

I have a doubt about class feats for spellcasters: i noted in the errata that wizards were given 1 at first level, while it was only for the universalist, so i noted all spellcasters don't have access to class feats until lvl 2, even thou they all have first level class feats.

I think i got the rules wrong somewhere but can't find where, i don't see the point in making them 1st level class feats if they can't be accessed before lvl 2
Already thank you for the help
You can pick them up as a human. Or if there's any other source of "pick a level 1 class feat"

thank you


i also have another doubt, about interaction between "spell immunity"or other dispelling spells i'm casting with MY OWN magic: is it possible to automatically dispell it?

I must say the question arises from my dislike of the lower level spells granted to the draconic sorcerer, expecially spellimmunity that counters 1 specific spell, a bit too much situational spell for a sorcerer i think, thou it's my biased opinion

BUT i had an idea, what if i cast it on an ally for, like, fireball, and then bomb him and nearby enemies with fireball? is there a way i can make my fireball easier to "counter" since, you know, i'm basically countering my own spell? o do i need to take the risk of damaging my ally if countering fails?

Is it too much rulebending? did anybody experienced a similar situation in game?


Why does it appear that Aberrant and Fey sorcs get the shaft with the way their blood magic effects work with their bloodline spells and focus abilities?

Sczarni

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

A PC untrained in Crafting wants to upgrade their +1 weapon to a +1 striking weapon.

A +1 weapon is 35gp.
A striking rune is 65gp.
A +1 striking weapon is 100gp.

Is upgrading as simple as paying the difference (65gp, in this case), or are there other costs or requirements necessary for upgrading?

The two sides of this debate are, basically, either "Just pay the difference; nothing else required" or "There are other requirements for upgrading, including any combination of 1) hiring and paying an NPC, 2) purchasing formulae and tools, 3) waiting X number of days, and even 4) it is only possible to upgrade via Crafting".

Here are just four of the most recent arguments about this:

Thread #1
Thread #2
Thread #3
Thread #4

This needs an answer soon, as there are a lot of Pathfinder Society members arguing this one way or the other, and either way it's ruled there will be characters that need fixing.


Question: Is there a reason why the "Sustain an Activation" action doesn't have the concentration trait? The section describing sustaining activations starts with the sentence "Some items, once activated, have effects that can be sustained if you concentrate on them".

The "Sustain a Spell" action has this trait, so it might make sense for "Sustain an activation" to have it as well.

If not, the descriptive text at the beginning of the lead paragraph might confuse some players.


If I cast Magic Missile as a 9th level spell using all three of my actions and target a single creature does that produce 27d4+27 damage?


Filthy Lucre wrote:
If I cast Magic Missile as a 9th level spell using all three of my actions and target a single creature does that produce 27d4+27 damage?
CRB, P. 349 wrote:
Heightened (+2) You shoot one additional missile with each action you spend.

By my math:

1st Level Spell = 3d4+3
3rd Level Spell = 6d4+6
5th Level Spell = 9d4+6
7th Level Spell = 12d4+12
9th Level Spell = 15d4+15


In today's game had a debate about the heal ability to harm undead with a three action casting at the heightened level. There was one player who said the damage to undead stays at 1d8 and does not rise when the spell is heightened. The text under heightened says the amount of healing or damage increases by 1d8. Which one is it?

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Your player is wrong, the heightened version of the spell functions how it says it does.


Okay, I'm feeling particularly blind. Is there a damage increase from welding a weapon in two hands compared to one hand in PF2 like there was in PF1 and 3.X? The 1.5x Strength bonus.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Michael Carter-Wright wrote:
Okay, I'm feeling particularly blind. Is there a damage increase from welding a weapon in two hands compared to one hand in PF2 like there was in PF1 and 3.X? The 1.5x Strength bonus.

No. Generally, if you can't find something that was in PF1, it means it's gone. Ditto AoOs for everyone, concentration checks etc.


Gorbacz wrote:
Michael Carter-Wright wrote:
Okay, I'm feeling particularly blind. Is there a damage increase from welding a weapon in two hands compared to one hand in PF2 like there was in PF1 and 3.X? The 1.5x Strength bonus.
No. Generally, if you can't find something that was in PF1, it means it's gone. Ditto AoOs for everyone, concentration checks etc.

Darn. That makes me a little sad, but thank you for the answer.


Michael Carter-Wright wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
Michael Carter-Wright wrote:
Okay, I'm feeling particularly blind. Is there a damage increase from welding a weapon in two hands compared to one hand in PF2 like there was in PF1 and 3.X? The 1.5x Strength bonus.
No. Generally, if you can't find something that was in PF1, it means it's gone. Ditto AoOs for everyone, concentration checks etc.
Darn. That makes me a little sad, but thank you for the answer.

There are specific weapons that are usable one-handed, but increase their damage when wielded with two hands.


Megistone wrote:
Michael Carter-Wright wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
Michael Carter-Wright wrote:
Okay, I'm feeling particularly blind. Is there a damage increase from welding a weapon in two hands compared to one hand in PF2 like there was in PF1 and 3.X? The 1.5x Strength bonus.
No. Generally, if you can't find something that was in PF1, it means it's gone. Ditto AoOs for everyone, concentration checks etc.
Darn. That makes me a little sad, but thank you for the answer.
There are specific weapons that are usable one-handed, but increase their damage when wielded with two hands.

Yes, I did see that. The question came to mind as I messed around with character creation and made a Champion of Shelyn welding her favoured glaive.

Sczarni

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Damage bonuses, hit points and healing are all balanced differently in this edition. It may seem like something was "lost", but it's less a nerf than just being a different game.


Nefreet wrote:
Damage bonuses, hit points and healing are all balanced differently in this edition. It may seem like something was "lost", but it's less a nerf than just being a different game.

For sure. Just my brain going "I swear I read this on my first read through".


Do you get retroactive new trained skills if you boosted your INT later levels? As CON boosts still seem to have you "catch up" to the expected HP total...


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Lucas Yew wrote:
Do you get retroactive new trained skills if you boosted your INT later levels? As CON boosts still seem to have you "catch up" to the expected HP total...

Yes, you do.

CRB, p. 31 wrote:
If an ability boost increases your character’s Intelligence modifier, they become trained in an additional skill and language.

Silver Crusade

What happens to animal companions and familiars when their owner dies. As they have the minion trait they cannot act unless given actions by their owner, so do they just sit where they are waiting for death or do they return to normal animals of their kind.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

That’s just for combat, familiars/companions function just fine outside of encounters without their player having to constantly direct them.

Silver Crusade

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Rysky wrote:
That’s just for combat, familiars/companions function just fine outside of encounters without their player having to constantly direct them.

Thank you

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Np ^w^


Is there an easy way for Rangers to get access to 3rd level Comprehend Languages without Dedication feats? Trying to remove the -4 penalty that Bear Companion suffers on his Intimidate skill, and I'm wondering if Wizard Devotion and Ring of Wizardry are necessary items for the build.


Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Scroll? Potion? Wand?

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Demoralize wrote:
If the target does not understand the language you are speaking, you’re not speaking a language, or they can’t hear you, you take a –4 circumstance penalty to the check.

Angry Bear Noises is a universal language.


Does a cleric spell with the 'nonlethal' trait do nonlethal damage even though the spell description just says it does 'mental' damage (ie. Daze)? And how does this nonlethal damage interact with lethal damage?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

The only difference Lethal/Nonlethal means in P2 (aside from Resistances and Immunties) is whether it's the final hit to take someone down. You don't track 2 different HP tracks like in P1.

Nonlethal is a modifier to the damage, Mental is the type of dammage.

Grand Lodge

Rysky wrote:

The only difference Lethal/Nonlethal means in P2 (aside from Resistances and Immunties) is whether it's the final hit to take someone down. You don't track 2 different HP tracks like in P1.

Nonlethal is a modifier to the damage, Mental is the type of dammage.

I have searched and searched but cannot find where the rules say only the last strike/hit which is non-lethal counts. Can you give me chapter and verse of where that idea/rule is presented in the game please?

Thanks

Nifty

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