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rainzax wrote:
Megistone wrote:
There's still a problem with that skill: a target that is immune to death effects would rather critical fail the fortitude roll (resulting in no effect) than pass it (resulting in it fleeing). It doesn't make much sense.

Oh. Whoopsie!

Velisruna wrote:
I really wish savage at least got to get expert barding with this though. They would still be 2-3 AC behind Nimble which is getting below caster AC. As is they are still at least 4 AC below nimble which the errata seems to imply they aren't anymore? How they are now, being stuck at trained AC with only +6 from barding + Dex (38 AC at level 20 vs 44 for a martial PC) means nearly any attack that would hit a PC will crit and everything but what would be a crit miss will hit a Savage companion.

It's possible that Treasure Vault will have some goodies for Savage companions.

Also, I am curious to see the AC AC math here by level...

Here


WWHsmackdown wrote:
Kyrone wrote:

Even with the nerf Nimble Animal companions ends with 42AC that is the same as caster full of runes at lvl 20 instead of 44, effectively it will have the same AC as a martial until lvl 19 that is when those get master in armor.

It also avoids the weird thing that Animal Companions had higher AC than players on mid game.

Yea...savage companions get 5 more damage (with one less to hit) and are large. I'm not convinced that's worth 4 AC. Maybe 1 or 2

The easy fix is to remove the expert in armor from specific specializations and just put it as a feature of specialized companions.


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Even with the nerf Nimble Animal companions ends with 42AC that is the same as caster full of runes at lvl 20 instead of 44, effectively it will have the same AC as a martial until lvl 19 that is when those get master in armor.

It also avoids the weird thing that Animal Companions had higher AC than players on mid game.


Yes I did, on a mini campaign from lvl 8 to 11.

I build it as a tank/support with heavy armor, picked the polearm that have trip and focused on STR and Charisma with Wisdom as the 3rd stat, I focused mainly in the AC increase of Outwit and also had that feat that let you share that bonus to an ally making them have an AC bonus as well, and even some had the skills that the edge gives to make them more reliable.


Use the Unexpected Sharpshooter dedication and flavor it that instead of luck it's your deity will that do the stuff.

"Saranrae bless this bullet/arrow"

Accidental Shot.


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Ravingdork wrote:
Squiggit wrote:
Primal only kineticist walls off a lot of their weirder options from PF1 and I'd be really disappointed to see it go in that direction. So I hope there's at least some flexibility there

Like what? You basically had the elements, void (essentially darkness and shadow), wood (as in plants), and healing.

That's all primal. The only thing that seems remotely arcane is aether/force, and you can practically roll that into the air/wind element since it was mostly just moving objects.

Yeah primal pretty much covers everything, and even the aether/force could be put there as is not unheard of classes cheating their way into stuff that their tradition don't have (druid being able to pick some illusion goods, storm oracle getting air/water focus spells, fey summoner getting some schools of arcane and so on).


If you are using Wizard or another, then I would reccomend Sniping Duo dedication, the reactions on it are great to use on any caster.

Using gunslinger you either go to the Beast Gunner path or Spellstrike Ammunition + Risky Reload if you wish to use the magic offensively.


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AlastarOG wrote:

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WHY DID YOU HAVE TO KILL LORD DOGERTON!!!!

**Tiny sprite size fists hammering the ground**

HE WAS A GOOD BOY!!! WHY CAN'T HE BE INDEPENDENT ANYMORE!!

HE WAS A GOOD BOOOYYY!!!

And now he is a more obedient dog lol.


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I recommend using the Pathbuilder to help.

But here a build to help.

I think that a simple one would one better. But damn that is a hard class to play for someone new to the system, but here we go.

First the ABCs

Ancestry - Human with Versatile Heritage (Toughness Class Feat) and General Training Ancestry Feat (Incredible Initiative)

2 Free boosts - Let's put one in STR and another into INT

Background - Academy Dropout - Let's put the boosts again into STR and INT, then you gain Adademia Lore and trained in Arcana plus the Dubious Knowledge Skill Feat.

Class - Magus - We put the boost into STR, and we will choose Laughing Shadow Hybrid Study, you gain the Dimensional Assault Focus spells, the spellstrike, Arcane Cascade and the proficiencies that the class gives, as you already gained Arcana in the background we can choose another skill here, so Athletics here we go.

Then we gain 4 free boost to put anywhere, let's pick STR, DEX, INT and CON, putting the initial stats as 18STR/12DEX/12CON/16INT/10WIS/10CHA.

Then as a Magus have 2 + INT more skills , as the INT is +3 so 5 skills, let's choose Society, Stealth, Diplomacy, Crafting and Occultism.

You also start with a spellbook with 8 cantrips and 4 lvl 1 spells, so let's choose Gouging Claw, Produce Flame, Ray of Frost, Shield, Light, Prestidigitation, Mage Hand and Ghost Sound for cantrips and Shocking Grasp, Hydraulic Push, Grease and Fear for 1st lvl spells.

Now we go to the second level, that we will choose Force Fang Class Feat and Titan Wrestler Skill Feat. And gravitational pull + Illusory object as spells.

Then 3rd lvl picking Fleet General Feat and increasing the Athletics as skill Increase. Scorching Ray and Invisibility as spells.

Then 4th lvl, I am personally a fanof Striker's scroll... but I think that might be simpler to pick Spell Parry. Quick Jump as skill feat. Blood Vendetta and Acid Arrow as spells.

5th lvl increase STR, CON, INT and WIS, and pick Clever Improviser for ancestry feat. Time Jump and Fireball as spells.

For equipment...

4th lvl- +1 Striking Longsword or Warhammer
3th lvl - Hat of Magi and Bracers of Missile Deflection
2nd lvl - Hand of the Mage
1st lvl - Cloak of Feline Rest and Breastplate.


Well Zagreus is a god, so I think that building him with dual class would work the best, like Monk or Champion/Arcane Sorcerer dual class with Soul Warden (for the dead relation and domains) and Wellspring Archetype (recharge spells with a variety of elements from the Arcane list).

Ancestry probably human with Aasimar, Duskwalker or Tiefling.


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I dislike it so I don't use it, IF I would use then would be like SoT that is limited archetype based on the theme of the campaign.


You don't need to be in Arcane cascade for Shroud, it actually makes you enter Cascade when you use it.


Ascalaphus wrote:

I'm curious about peoples' take on Arcane Shroud. What are the best spells to trigger it with?

I feel like for example Stoneskin would be really nice to get out of it, but I'm having a tough time picking abjuration spells I'd be happy to prepare as a magus.

The best schools with the spell that I find to use on it.

Abjuration - Warding Agression is the most interesting here, as you an AC bonus and then can gain Stoneskin as well, making you pretty tanky that turn. Resilient Sphere is also decent as even if the enemy make the save you still remove an action and gives them MAP if it have to strike.

Conjuration - Blink Charge can be an opener, blood feast if allowed is the best Spellstrike spell in the game.

Enchantment - Heroism is good and not in the Arcane list, but the best spells are mostly save based, like Roaring Applause, so best used when not neglecting Intelligence and having extra slots from a Witch or Wizard MC.

Evocation - All the main offensive spellstrike spells are here anyway.

Illusion - The effect is good but it's the lvl 2 spell, and unlike enchantment that you don't have access to Heroism, you do have access to Invisibility, so it's best to just use it as a lvl 4 spell and ignore the shroud effect.


It does share with Demoralize though, because you "attempt intimidation checks to Demoralize".

But anyway, Bastion with quick shield block makes any character very tanky and cuts a lot the incoming damage with the shield. Table.


Make a character that challenge other swordsman and take the swords, then pick Duelist for quick draw (and Duelist challenge for the flavor if you wish) as you want to use the stolen swords, use doubling rings with a gauntlet and give each sword a different talisman/spellheart so each one have an unique property outside of the traits.


We have capybara, so I am fine.


My favorite one is WarPriest Marshal, pick the dedication, get Topple Foe and Cast Down, the rest is all up to you, with those feats and you on the frontline the creatures around you will be basically permanently prone, nice optional feats are the Attack of Opportunity for when a creature stand up but you don't have an ally to help you to Topple foe and one of the Marshal Auras for passive buffs. I recomend 18 Wisdom on this one.

Monk Cloistered Cleric for Ki Blast spam is also cool, but comes kinda late as Ki blast is only available at lvl 12, but being divine and using wisdom makes that Cleric uses it really well.
- Monk Dedication
- One of the lvl 1 ki feats
- Ki blast
- Refocus feat
- Divine Inspiration Spell

This let you use 2/3 ki blasts, use divine inspiration on yourself, then cast more 2/3 Ki Blasts in the same battle.

Warpriest Wrestler is also one that I am messing around lately, playing with Whirling Thrown, Submission Hold and Spinebreaker, for a control debuffer melee build that at the same time have all the divine list for support or spells shenanigans, Cast Down again is an amazing feat here letting you do the Grab/"Trip" combo without a map.


The default wild Shape (animal) holds well until like lvl11, after that you will need another form, mainly because of Armor Class, the common routes are usually Dragon (requires Soaring Form) or Plant route, and then both ends routes ends into monstrosity.

Remember to retrain forms that you are not using anymore for other stuff.


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Spell Trickster.

Even have a sidebar, and the text above the archetype to explain some stuff.


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A player of mine in an one shot like to use it with Jump, had a Staff with the spell on it, was Laughing Shadow using bite attacks, so Jump + Cascade + Strike was pretty common and had like 5 Jumps at that lvl from the staff.


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Temperans wrote:
SuperBidi wrote:

If you look at the big picture, you have:

Magus Dedication, Spellstriker, 3 spellcasting feat or
Wizard Dedication, 3 spellcasting feat, breadth.

2 builds with exactly the same number of feats at the same level. And both builds are perfectly valid and on par. If you improve the Magus spellcasting feats or reduce their cost, then the first build becomes better or cheaper than the second: The balance is lost. So these feats are worse for balance reasons.

But obviously, if you don't look at the big picture and just look at the feats one by one, you miss the point.

3 feats for 2 7th level spell slots and 2 6th level spell slots.

Vs

3 feats for 1 spell slot of every level up to 8th.

Idk about you but 8 spell slots is a lot more than 4. If you consider the fact that Spellstrike is only 1/minute and effectively meaningless if all you can use is cantrips it becomes even worse. Breath at least gives you 6 extra spells slots.

Quality of the slots matter though, yes it have 8, but most of them are lower lvl than the bounded ones.


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Invisibility is not really a problem, wands and scrolls to solve that is cheap as heck at high lvls.

Even have a normal item, dust of appearance, that also solves that.


kryone wrote:
I was wondering, what is your favorite or most efficient eidolon in your opinion ?

Eidolon wise, plant is probably the most well rounded, but unfortunately is on the Primal list that I consider the worst spell list in the game right now.

Dragon is my favorite as after lvl 7 the new ability is really kind to your action economy as you can do boost + draconic frenzy and have one action remaining, compared to cantrip + 2 strikes that leaves you with none.


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So the question is why the APG one is not there then


Time Beacon technically makes a reroll as you rewind time.

Also that Tengu Feat, Harbingers Caw for skill checks.


Spell Trickster Magus Gnome with Razzle Dazzle can extend the dazzle effect of the Light cantrip. The wellspring heritage can give a cantrip from the divine list, choose Divine Lance and now you have access to good damage from the start.


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Let's see...

Psychic: Will keep the number of slots, will not break the focus spell limit if 3 anymore so can have stronger amps and unsleash will change to be some form of "rage" giving benefits when you use it.

Thaumaturge: Around the same as the playtest but find flaws will not be connected to recall anymore.

Sounds cool on paper, let's see how it will turn out in a year.


Winter Patron uses the Primal list, that literally have all the cold spells.

Have skill feats on survival to do some stuff with artic environment and Horizon Walker if you want even more.

The max that I see happening is an general archetype that works like the Shadowcaster archetype.


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People did answer though.

A lot said no and some said that would use air repeater with innovations like complex simplicity.


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Deflecting Shot, basically allies have +2AC just by you having a loaded gun and a reaction, and you know when it will make a difference.


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Inventor pick Air Repeater as a weapon innovation, calls it revolver prototype.

Choose Complex Simplicity as the first modification, now your air repeater is stronger than normal ones.

Choose Advanced Ragefinder, now it have more range.

In the end get Deadly Strikes, completing the prototype.


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Battledancer is my favorite of the bunch, the ability to dance one enemy into another and then impaling finisher both is amazing.

The only thing that I would change in the class is take out the extra skill feats for skill proficiency increase.


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I do think that this is year was a lot and would appreciate a slow down on classes release, we didn't even had time to digest Secrets of Magic and the new classes and then came Guns and Gears right after with even more classes.


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Unarmed Attacks

Quote:
Table 6–6: Unarmed Attacks lists the statistics for an unarmed attack with a fist, though you’ll usually use the same statistics for attacks made with any other parts of your body. Certain ancestry feats, class features, and spells give access to special, more powerful unarmed attacks. Details for those unarmed attacks are provided in the abilities that grant them.


Ranger is a decent option, they have a feat that let them share their Hunter Edge for one turn.


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gesalt wrote:

Idk where you ever got the idea that you dip out of your 4 main stats outside of level 20. Basically every character in 2e is going to have scores that look like:

A) 18/16/12/12/10/10 letting them hit 20 in their secondary and 18 in their tertiary at 15

B) 18/14/14/12/10/10 letting them have double 18s at 10 and double 20s at 20.

C) 18/16/14/12/8/8 for the best of both worlds

Nobody outside of some edge case flavor build is really deviating from these stat spreads. When your monk is going 18-19 in dex at level 10, everybody else is doing the same thing with their secondary stat too or else they're doing it at 15.

I used to think about that about 14s... but then I stopped when I noticed that you only enjoy those stats on only the final lvl (around 4 sessions) compared to gaining more boosts into other stats that you will enjoy the bonus for a longer period of time.

Heck even 16s start I see myself stopping at 18s if I don't end with any stray stats at 20.


Shield cantrip hardness scales a little faster than Sturdy Shield (and is free) after the character is lvl 5, so it let them choose with one is better for the situation or as a back up option if your physical shield becomes broken.


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Have a few, like this one


So gunslinger have a feat called Bullet Split that you shoot and cut the bullet in half to hit two targets adjacent to each other.

If you use special ammunition like Spellstrike ammunition, would both targets be susceptible to the spell inside it? Like activate it with Acid Arrow and then bullet split it into two targets making it take the Strike damage plus the acid arrow damage.


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In the CRB only covered magical ammunition and how it interacts with property runes and activation, Guns and gears added alchemical ammunition (so not magical) so it goes around the property rune stuff that does not look like was intended to go around that.

As it makes the alchemical ammunition always the right choice to be shooting around.


oholoko wrote:


I would rather they release more options instead of making handwraps not invested as they are kind of greater doubling rings for every unnarmed weapon you are using.
I would rather see more like the berserker cloak and keep the handwraps as they are.

Like a tattoo? Working exactly like the handwraps but engraved on the body.


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It's not strange, doubling rings also have invested and they are required for dual wielding to work.


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Increasing intelligence.


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Had a player that used Warpriest from lvl 1 to 20 in Age of Ashes, mixing spells and strikes was common.

You can't do it always with 2 action spells, but if the target is adjacent then a chill touch plus strike is something that was done often at low lvls. 1 action spells like Harm pet you mix it more easily though.

Secrets of Magic gave some nice options to play around like Organsight and Blink Charge as you level up.


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Mainly put Dexterity at 18 and Intelligence at 16 I believe as you are still mainly a martial character, the feats are fine.


Specialty Crafting only work for crafting an item so it would not work, so don't have a reliable way to get circumstance bonus to the crafting DC for the reaction, though status bonus is easier because of a few spells.

The skill value of crafting at lvl 16 would be +31 meaning that the defense DC against the attack would be 41, while the normal AC of inventor would be 37, gaining effectively +4 "AC" in the reaction, looking at the calculator using dragons from lvl + 0 to +4 the average damage that YFTAFT reduces is between 15 and 22, so on average is better than stable negate damage

If you are raising shield with both then negate damage is always better (though if you are raising shield might be better to just block with the shield that blocks around the same damage...) and at lvl 19 inventor goes to master armor making the increase smaller as well as it's not two proficiency between crafting and armor anymore.

Have to consider that YFTAFT needs to be used before the attack is rolled, while Negate Damage is done at the damage phase, so it's never wasted and you can unstable it to negate 50 damage instead.


Fighters that pick the feat to that one is usually building with either shields or with an reaction outside of the class as AoO is not reliable enough to trigger on every enemy turn.

Gunslinger will probably be the same, they will either use repeating weapons or go for reactions outside of the class.


I think that you can combine doubling rings and blazons with a combination weapon, like have the main blazon and ring in the combination weapon and then the other blazon in the gun while the ring will affect the bayonet.


Yup, penalty as normal.


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Abjuration

Spoiler:

Lock
Dispel Magic
Magnetic Repulsion
Freedom of Movement
Resilient Sphere
Stoneskin
Banishment
Contingency
Mind Blank
Energy Aegis

Conjuration

Spoiler:

Grease
Ash Cloud
Aqueous Orb
Coral Eruption
Dimension Door
Flammable Fumes
Wall of Water/Stone
Unexpected Transposition
Teleport
Maze
Summon Draconic Legion

Enchantment

Spoiler:

Agitate
Fear
Sleep
Hideous Laughter
Roaring Applause
Power Words

Evocation

Spoiler:

Different flavors of damage spells
Gravitational Pull
Shockwave
Ignite Fireworks
Levitate
Wall of Ice/Force
Chain Lightning
Zero gravity
Reverse gravity
Force cage

Illusion

Spoiler:

Illusory Object/Creature
Ventriloquism
Invisibility / Sphere
Shadow projectile
Phantasmal killer
Drop dead
Shadow Syphon

Necromancy/b]

Spoiler:

Goblin Pox
Blood Vendetta
Enervation
Sanguine Mist
Cloudkill
Tempest of Shades

[b]Transmutation

Spoiler:

Animate rope
Jump
Longstrider
Spider Climb
Earthbind
Haste lvl 7 (not lvl 3)
Slow
Time Jump
Fly
Grisly growths
X form

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