Hmm, I wonder if there is any synergy between this and Dragon Style? (Specifically Dragon Roar)
Frilled Dragon Style?
Its amusing with Pest Form. Pest Form has no "obligatory" natural attacks, so you are free to use the full powered Mountain Style Strikes, with the AC boosts.
I'm not recommending that you do this, as pest form sucks on account of physical vulnerability, but the tiny rat that does xd8 + str damage and has a +4 status bonus to AC is amusing.
Varun Creed wrote:
I’m quite aware that you require the two meditative feats to regain 3 focus points, yes.
Your humblebrag is noted, lol.
I too have had to do likewise in I imagine similar circumstances. Having a shouty-man hurl imprecations and threats at you does do a lot to alleviate fatigue.
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So way back in PF 1e, there was this monk archetype called the Scaled Fist that was the absolute antithesis of the wise, disciplined, contemplative monk. These guys were based off of Charisma and were total self-aggrandizing show-offs, cowing others with their intimidation and infinite self confidence. That's what Dragon Monk in part draws it's inspiration from, and I could definitely see these guys drawing out the dragon's fury and raging.
There was also the monk martial artist who eschewed the philosophical trappings of all these martial arts and who concentrated solely on beating people's skulls in.
Martial arts is not all Kwai Chang Kaine self knowledge and wisdom. Pathfinder has always had all sorts of ways to beat face with fist and some of them interfaced very well with Barbarian (I recall Martial Artist/Barbarian was considered to be a very potent combo).
I thought about mixing these 2 classes but I cannot get past that mix in the nature of the class. The only way I would do it would be if I had the Moment of Clarity barbarian feat. This is also my issue with a monk using a tower shield, I think I could see a buckler shield but not a tower. I might try the tower shield to see if I can enjoy this style.
More than likely, the first Mountain Stylist was a half-naked Dwarf heaving with rock like muscle and sheer stubbornness. Why wouldn't they also wield a giant slab of metal the size of a barn door?
Most of the 1st level stances do not allow use of any other attacks except the one allowed by the stance, so in most cases weapons are out. Unless I misunderstand the stances/ rules.
Actually only Mountain and Crane require unarmed, all the others (3, dragon, wolf, tiger) you can use with weapons.
Staffan Johansson wrote:
Falling Stone becomes 1d10 at lvl 18 with Diamond Fists, quite a tempting feat for Mountain Monks.
Dragon Style has Dragon Roar which with some clever multiclassing can net you +3 to every attack by lvl 8.
Errrm, every class is limited to max ever a pool of 3 focus points, it says so on pg 300. Sorcerors only have 3, wizards only have 3, so in a way, Monks have the most Focus points of any class...? (3)
2. The example of a Ki Monk on page 162 in the core book says you should pick occult for your spell like abilities (I say this as occult is one of the skills picked on the build). I do not understand this... is it because occult skill is used versatile in day to day play? Occult is an Int based skill while Divine is Wis based. Seems to me you need the higher stat to be wis for the saves, Ki saves, and perception. Why pick occult over divine?
Thats kind of a flavour thing, mysterious user of Ki = Occult. Its a trained skill, you don't have to take it if you don't want to.
3. I see no value in Mtn Stance as with the spread of your points across so many ability scores you will not stand and fight toe-to-toe... move, hit, move! It also limits you to one form of attack. Am I missing something?
Mountain Stance allows you to focus your ability points in Str, and ignore Dex so I'm not sure why you would be very spread out. Mountain Monks can start with one of the highest starting ACs in the game (23 with a tower shield) so heck, you can just stand there and take it. Let all the enemies pile onto you while you flurry them unconscious with your rock hard fists. (You also are one of the most damaging Monks out there thanks to high Strength)
4. Is a shield and/or Bracers considered Armor. I think a shield is but bracers of def would be okay to use as a monk. Am I correct?
Nope. Shields are not armor, you can use them as a monk and still get your unarmored proficiency bonus to AC. Bracers (of armor) are not armor either. So not sure where you are getting this info? Both are great for monks.
Most things are feats now, thats just how it is. You build your character in a modular fashion rather than HAVING to take most abilities. Makes for more customizability. I like it, personally.
I do not understand how the fighter can have a better unarmed strike than a Monk.
He has a better unarmed accuracy than a monk, but is:
- Stuck at 1d4 nonlethal damage
I'll... stick with the monk for unarmed, thanks.
Once again, I am at a loss of how to respond here. Monks (and Champions) are the only class that gets it at this level. They are the FASTEST in the game at advancing armor proficiency. I mean, if that is the case, all the classes are slow as molasses, aren't they?
Secret Wizard wrote:
Hmm, I'm not sure putting off the acquisition of all the parts makes everything that much better (especially since you end up at the same place once you've taken all the feats). I.e. I kind of like to aim for 8th level for the entire build and then spend the next couple of levels building up Ki points so that I can spam Ki Strike twice per fight.
But I must admit, I'm new to the tinkering so I'm perhaps mistaken.
Edit: By the by, looking for advice here, any must have Skill Feats for this character? I find myself just picking the ones I have the highest proficiency for.
Just started building this, you can do this +3 to all attacks combo by 8th level, but it will take your 2nd, 4th and 8th Level class Feats to do it (and 6th is Dragon Roar) so kind of intensive.
But once you’re there, you can start to backfill needed low Level Feats (like Stunning Fist and Stand Still) I suppose.
Hmm, that stat flaw is looking more and more tempting. You just have to play him/her as an unselfaware idiot, which probably fits this kind of monk.
Would Assurance Intimidate mitigate the stat issues (allow you to not boost Cha) you think?
Hmm, its a neat idea, but getting yet another 1d10 Unarmed Attack (You already have Dragon Tail) seems a bit superfluous?
Couple of Questions for fellow forumites:
1. I’m wavering between Human and Goblin, Goblin has the better stat spread but humans have Nice Ancestry Feats. (Pick up Ki Strike for even more damage!)
2. How much Cha/Dex/Con would you pick up? Str can go to 18, but would, say 14 in everything else be sufficient (only possible with Goblin) for demoralize shenanigans?
3. Besides Intimidating Prowess, any other Skill Feats I should focus on?
Hmm, yeah that makes a whole lot of sense. Rogue Multi might be the way to go then, take Dread Attacker at 8th level and then start enjoying +3 to hit whoever you're targeting...
(The trick, dear readers, is by the time you finish with one target, hopefully Dragon Roar is off cooldown and you can stick the next target with a massive penalty as well).
Hmm, Rogue sneak attack is agile or finesse only, and Dragon strike is neither of these things, so it's not as synergistic as I originally thought. Dread Striker (Rogue 4) is nice though.
Barbarian also seems like a nice Multi, as you can get 2 free skill feats for the low low price of a Class Feat (Raging Intimidation Barb 1), and Rage is super synergistic with Dragon Style.
You could multi Barbarian and Fighter and also pick up Fearsome Brute (Fighter 10) for always on extra damage (but at 20th level, eesh).
Hmm, Barb is 2 feats, then you switch to either Fighter or Rogue (with Human Ancestry Multitalented 9)?
I'll see what I can come up with in Pathbuilder 2e...
Now back when Men were Men and Goblins were CR1 abominations, there were two things that made life good for Monks:
1. The Scaled Fist Archetype that let you bluster your way with Charisma instead of Wis.
And you could combine everything with Power Attack and Cornugon smash for even more damage etc, etc.
But now I notice that Dragon Roar, the upgrade for Dragon Stance (already top tier Damage) has the potential to be the most consistent demoralizer because unlike regular demoralize, the penalty will not decay below 1 as long as you are standing next to them, so potentially, you could open with Roar and keep the penalty on at least one for the entire fight.
But there it ends, as Monks don’t have much synergy with fear. Some strategic multiclassing might solve that as fighters have nice stuff.
So I’m brainstorming for the return of the Scaled Fist, I’ll post more when I’m home, but I think it has potential for a potentially Cha based monk, what do you think fellow forumites?
So I thought I’d compile dev answers for 2e in a google doc until we get a faq.
That’s where I need your help, I’m not a panopticon, so I need you to help me post here in this thread this info:
- Dev giving answer
And once there are enough answers, I’ll put them in a word doc and post it on google, hows that? Help me help you. :)
Got a rules question about Pathfinder Second Edition? Post it here! And we might answer them on stream!
The fact that one of the premiere Champion Weapons is the Gnome Flickmace, which, one way to access, is to have been raised by gnomes.
Data Lore wrote:
You play your table, man.
In my experience as a player, theres usually enough games going out there that if you have the questionable fortune of DMs that have their hackles up about the "common sense" of the Rules as Written (how "common" is it if you are the only person in this thread that believes it?) you can find another table that suits you better.
Data Lore wrote:
The Rules as Written (aka Rules Lawyery Nonsense to all surprised/bushwacked DMs).
If you play in Pathfinder Society, (I'm not saying you have to or are, just that its the place where the Rules take precedent) thats how it works.
As a player, my base expectation is that the game follows the rules. If the DM wants to change that, then obviously I need to evaluate the situation at the table.
One thing I'm trying to understand is "what on earth are falling rock strikes"? Other stances tend to specify what part of the body you're using or correspond to real-world or cinematic styles approximately.
RAW, anything apparently. Heavy Shoulders, short front kicks to the shins, vicious backhands, falling elbow drops.
Mountain, for all that it is imitating rock, is remarkably free-style..
For those of you who already have the Lost Omens World Guide: What are the best optimization uses of these new dedications?
Hows the Student of Perfection?
I had a question regarding Flurry of Blows. While in Mountain Stance and doing a Flurry of Blows, would the penalty be 0/-5? Or is it 0/-4? Although my understanding is that it's only that if using an agile stance?
It’s 0/-5, Mountain uses Falling Fist Strikes which are Forceful but not Agile.
And the perpetually lower damage due to being Dex focused and lacking any damage boosting weapon properties like backstabber, yes.
I’m not saying it is stomping on other defensive paths (though I still don’t like Crane), it’s just that all of Mountains available actions (raise a shield, take cover, quake, flurry) are good, which is more than I can say for Crane’s low Damage Strike.
Ah, so you can’t get max Dex benefits (+7) and still benefit from magical armour, whereas Str doesn’t have that problem, interesting.
The thing is, Monks can take those two actions much more often than other classes and still get their two attacks in.
Anyway, I'm still not sold on Crane, but if people have fun with it, who am I to argue?
Mountain Stance + 2 from dex and a Tower Shield taken cover behind doesn't reach? Just curious?
I agree with all of this, but:
1. It seems kind of situational, and doesn’t excuse at all the bad damage.
I just can’t in good conscience say that Crane is on par with Tiger, Wolf or Tangled Forest. But that’s just my opinion.
I think the mobility crane stance grants has been underestimated here especially with skill feats like quick jump.
I appreciate mobility as much as the next guy Vestris, but does that really warrant bumping up crane style? I’m not so sure, especially since I don’t think IIRC stances can be used in Exploration mode?
I must admit, I wasn’t considering the possibility of knocking any boss prone, no questions asked. I’ll bump up the rating of Wolf one or two dots.
Wolf Stance **** Feat 1
Once again decent damage 1d8 and Finesse, and oh, would you look at that. One of the Rarest Weapon Traits in the game, Backstabber. Two weapons have this and neither do 1d8 damage. So add +1 (and +3 eventually) to your damage every time you are flanking, and this weapon can Trip Foes with your dex mod as well. Overall an interesting choice.
Wolf Drag *** Feat 6
With the recent comments on how this can knock down automatically a foe that is of any size this seems better to me (I was just thinking originally that trey could get up right after if initiative was unfortunate).
Wolf Style Overall ***
I would put Wolf Style on par or slightly better than Tiger, and both are definitely better than Crane.
You would assume rightly, fellow forumite. You stack the hardness of, say, a sturdy shield and your own inherent DR all to mitigate a bunch of damage.
Ah, my mistake. Still the Hardness of the Shield and the Damage Reduction of the Stance should both apply, yes?