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Rules Discussion

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1. Page 214 says that an animal companion's maximum item bonus to AC is +2, but heavy barding gives +3 AC. Is page 214 mistaken?

2. Spellcasters of all traditions and classes can provide material components from a spell component pouch. This pouch allows their hand to be free for them to use on actions like Quick Alchemy or Grapple.
However, to cast with a musical instrument or divine/primal focus, page 303 necessitates that it must already be occupying your hand, unlike in the Playtest, where you were allowed to retrieve and re-stow a focus as part of casting a spell. This change seems to make using a component pouch preferable to using the focus your class specially allows you to. Was this intentional? Might we see errata remove the "Unlike the normal rules for a focus component[...]" sentence from the end of each of page 303's three paragraphs on focus substitution?

Glorf Fei-Hung wrote:

However there is no clarification on how touch or touch attack spells work.

-Do touch/touch attack spells have to be cast adjacent to the target and delivered as part of the spell casting?
-If you fail the attack roll do you keep the charge or is the spell lost?
-Can you cast the spell then use stride/step to move adjacent then deliver the spell attack automatically?
-Can you cast the spell then use stride/step to move adjacent but have to use a strike to deliver the spell attack?

The touch spell rules need no clarification; they work like page 304 says they work. Touch spells must be cast in reach of the target and delivered as part of the casting because there is no rule in Pathfinder 2nd Edition allowing you to Stride/Step mid-cast, and there is no rule that allows you to keep a charge; once you cast a spell, it's gone.

Glorf Fei-Hung wrote:
Then there's the Archetype Rules that list 'occasionally' Archetype Feats that act like skill Feats.

Examples of archetype skill feats are presented in the Lost Omens World Guide, set to release on August 28th. You select them in place of a skill feat instead of in place of a class feat.

The Exchange

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Franz Lunzer wrote:
Take a look at the Falling rules.

These Look fun. One Flying Character Vs Army. Flyer has a bag of holding full of bags of caltrops. Flies 1500 ft above army, and starts dumping the bags of caltrops out on top of the troops below. Safely out of bow/spell range hundreds of spiked objects fall to the ground making troops have to perform dozens of reflex saves to avoid 187 dmg on a success, 375 dmg on a fail, and 750 dmg on a crit fail. on the off chance that someone should actually survive, they are now also surrounded by a field of caltrops to cross!


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Titan Mauler (Instinct Ability), or the clumsy condition in general:

Is the dexterity penalty to AC also applied, if the character's dexterity bonus is higher than the DEX-cap of the used armor?

Scarab Sages

I've only seen the "mount" trait on animal companion horses. Does this mean purchased mounts are unsuitable for combat?

Liberty's Edge

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'Mount' is much less necessary than it sounds. The only limits creatures without 'Mount' have while being ridden are an inability to use non-ground movement and an inability to use 'Support' abilities (the second of which is only relevant for Animal Companions).

You can ride almost anything of the right size, really.

Scarab Sages

Deadmanwalking wrote:

'Mount' is much less necessary than it sounds. The only limits creatures without 'Mount' have while being ridden are an inability to use non-ground movement and an inability to use 'Support' abilities (the second of which is only relevant for Animal Companions).

You can ride almost anything of the right size, really.

Yeah, but then I can't rent a Roc on the plain of air or a hippocampus by the sea.


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Do précision damages dictés (such as sneak attack) are doubled in case of critical strike?


margang wrote:
Do précision damages dictés (such as sneak attack) are doubled in case of critical strike?

Yes.


Do precision damage dices (sneak attack) are doubled in case of critical strike?
Is it possible to get an official answer from Paizo?

Shadow Lodge

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If a Champion takes their level 1 feat to gain a domain, are they supposed to get a focus point so they can use it? Or does the one point they got for Lay on Hands have to get spread over both abilities?


thistledown wrote:
If a Champion takes their level 1 feat to gain a domain, are they supposed to get a focus point so they can use it? Or does the one point they got for Lay on Hands have to get spread over both abilities?

FOCUS POINTS FROM MULTIPLE SOURCES

It’s possible, especially through archetypes, to gain focus spells and Focus Points from more than one source. If this happens, you have just one focus pool, adding all the Focus Points together to determine the total size of your pool. (Remember that the maximum number of Focus Points a pool can have is 3.) If you have multiple abilities that give you a focus pool, each one adds 1 Focus Point to your pool. For instance, if you were a cleric with the Domain Initiate feat, you would have a pool with 1 Focus Point. Let’s say you then took the champion multiclass archetype and the Healing Touch feat. Normally, this feat would give you a focus pool. Since you already have one, it instead increases your existing pool’s capacity by 1.

Page 302.


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margang wrote:

Do precision damage dices (sneak attack) are doubled in case of critical strike?

Is it possible to get an official answer from Paizo?

well, apart from the fact that the book very clearly staes that you double all damage except the damage that specifically comes from the critical hit (like deadly and fatal dices) Bulmahn also played it with doubling the sneak dices on a Crit on Stream.

So, if one of the lead developers plays it like that, i'm inclined to say that yes, that's how it works.


Ubertron_X wrote:
thistledown wrote:
If a Champion takes their level 1 feat to gain a domain, are they supposed to get a focus point so they can use it? Or does the one point they got for Lay on Hands have to get spread over both abilities?
[…]Let’s say you then took the champion multiclass archetype and the Healing Touch feat. Normally, this feat would give you a focus pool.[…]

Unlike the Healing Touch archetype feat, the Deity's Domain 1st-level champion feat does not say anything about normally giving you a focus pool. Yes, page 302 should hopefully override feats with the "If you don't already have one, gain a focus pool" clause, but many GMs' current interpretation is that in the case of Deity's Domain, the feat has no such clause for page 302 to override. Many are hoping the designers tell us the clause's exclusion from Deity's Domain was a mistake.


Glorf Fei-Hung wrote:
Franz Lunzer wrote:
Take a look at the Falling rules.
These Look fun. One Flying Character Vs Army. Flyer has a bag of holding full of bags of caltrops. Flies 1500 ft above army, and starts dumping the bags of caltrops out on top of the troops below. Safely out of bow/spell range hundreds of spiked objects fall to the ground making troops have to perform dozens of reflex saves to avoid 187 dmg on a success, 375 dmg on a fail, and 750 dmg on a crit fail. on the off chance that someone should actually survive, they are now also surrounded by a field of caltrops to cross!

This rule is in need of tweaking, Paizo! ;)


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page 305 wrote:
Spell attack rolls benefit from any bonuses or penalties to attack rolls, including your multiple attack penalty, but not any special benefits or penalties that apply only to weapon or unarmed attacks. Spell attacks don’t deal any damage beyond what’s listed in the spell description.

The 5th-level Ezren pregen took Bespell Weapon to synergize with hand of the apprentice, which sounds awesome. But the text of hand of the apprentice says it lets you "deal the weapon's damage as if you had hit with a melee Strike". Is Bespell's +1d6 part of the weapon's damage for this purpose? What about +1d6 fire from a flaming rune? I take it this attack isn't a Strike for the purpose of triggering a vorpal weapon activation.


Oh, the wizard archetype doesn't seem to allow multiclass characters to become universalists and learn hand of the apprentice. Is that intentional? I suppose that allowing fighters and rogues to decapitate or poison people from a range of 500 feet would imbalance the game.

Hm, now that I look at it, the archetype feat Arcane School Spell doesn't make you a specialist, either; it just gives you a school's initial spell. So it's intentional that a multiclass character with this feat does not gain the Arcane School class feature, and thus cannot meet the prerequisites for the Linked Focus and Advanced School Spell feats?


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A Storm druid has a 2 FPs (focus points) initially. They get +1 FP from the Wind Caller feat, and another +1 FP from the Invoke Disaster feat, for a total of 4.

However, according to the Druidic Order feature, your focus pool can never hold more than 3 points. Thus, the +1 FP from Invoke Disaster is impossible.

Why does the Invoke Disaster feat increase your FP?


ArchyStar wrote:

A Storm druid has a 2 FPs (focus points) initially. They get +1 FP from the Wind Caller feat, and another +1 FP from the Invoke Disaster feat, for a total of 4.

However, according to the Druidic Order feature, your focus pool can never hold more than 3 points. Thus, the +1 FP from Invoke Disaster is impossible.

Why does the Invoke Disaster feat increase your FP?

because you if you start off as a non-storm druid, join it's order later by order explorer (which does not include a focus spell or bonus focus point you get from starting in it) you have 2 points with wind caller, then 3 when you get up to invoke disaster

Shadow Lodge

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Why the hard cap on 3 points in a focus pool? Yes, I see the rule, but why is the rule there?


thistledown wrote:
Why the hard cap on 3 points in a focus pool? Yes, I see the rule, but why is the rule there?

Good version. Thanks


My friend and I are debating how channel smite and harm interact. If he spends two actions to channel smite could he add the third action to empower the harm to it's 2 actions version? I don't think it works that way because channel smite doesn't describe you CASTING the spell, but EXPENDING the spell slot.
For example;
Channel Smite (harm) with a club
1D6+2D8
Or Channel Smite (2 action Harm) with a club
1D6+2D8+16
For simplicity I'm not adding stat modifiers.


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thistledown wrote:
Why the hard cap on 3 points in a focus pool? Yes, I see the rule, but why is the rule there?

If the rule didn't exist, I could see people dipping into multiclasses solely based on what archetypes can get them the most focus points as soon as possible, and taking six different focus spells they don't actually care about just because they want to be able to cast one imbalanced focus spell six times in one combat.


bootangles wrote:

My friend and I are debating how channel smite and harm interact. If he spends two actions to channel smite could he add the third action to empower the harm to it's 2 actions version? I don't think it works that way because channel smite doesn't describe you CASTING the spell, but EXPENDING the spell slot.

For example;
Channel Smite (harm) with a club
1D6+2D8
Or Channel Smite (2 action Harm) with a club
1D6+2D8+16
For simplicity I'm not adding stat modifiers.

2-action harm adds +8 (per spell level) only if you heal the undead, not to damage.

The range is not applicable, obviously.
So there is nothing to gain from another action.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber

The rules specify very clearly how to determine whether someone is undetected by hiding or sneaking. How does a GM determine whether someone is unnoticed in an encounter or exploration mode context?

Radiant Oath

Rules Question.
Stages of Afflicion, p. 458

On a failure, the stage increases by 1; on a critical failure,
the stage increases by 2. You are then subjected to the
effects listed for the new stage. If a failure or critical failure
would increase the stage beyond the highest listed stage, the
affliction instead repeats the effects of the highest stage.

-> If I am critically failing my throw for a 3 stage affliction like the sample arsenic, and I am already at stage 2 - I would go to stage 4, which does not exist. So I go to stage 3. Am I now afflicted twice at stage 3? Or Do i just get afflicted once by stage 3?


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A 12th level character has both the 12th level "extra refocus" feat (e.g. meditative focus, primal focus, domain focus) and the basic bloodline spell from the sorcerer dedication. If they do something specific to their class, (e.g. pray, meditate) for 10 minutes while refocusing, they will regain 2 focus points. How many focus points will they regain if they don't, and take advantage of the "you can Refocus without any special effort" clause in Basic Bloodline Spell? Is it 1 or 2?

Exo-Guardians

The "Avoid Notice" exploration activity says
"If you’re Avoiding Notice at the start of an encounter, you usually roll a Stealth check instead of a Perception check both to determine your initiative and to see if the enemies notice you (based on their Perception DCs, as normal for Sneak, regardless of their initiative check results)."

Say Group A uses Avoid Notice to sneak up on Group B, triggering an encounter. What happens if Group A's Stealth rolls are high enough to beat Group B's Perception DCs (and thus remain Unnoticed by Group B), but not high enough to beat Group B's Initiative rolls?


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Can you Aid an Attack roll from range WITHOUT a feat like "Assisting Shot"?

If yes, what's the point of such a feat when the Aid action doesn't actually have strict "melee range" restrictions?

Exo-Guardians

For purposes of Crafting items, are "raw materials" interchangeable between items?

If a PC buys a certain amount of raw materials intending to craft a suit of Full Plate, can they later change their mind and use the same raw materials to craft an Oil of Weightlessness instead? Can a PC "disassemble" a Potion of Healing and then and use the disassembled parts as raw materials to craft a mundane Longsword?

Or should the raw materials used to craft an item be specific to that item in some fashion?

Exo-Guardians

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The Acid Splash cantrip deals 1 splash acid damage on a hit. However, the spell does not have the Splash trait.

Should the splash damage be applied to all creatures adjacent to the target or only to the target itself?


UndeadViking wrote:
Glorf Fei-Hung wrote:
Franz Lunzer wrote:
Take a look at the Falling rules.
These Look fun. One Flying Character Vs Army. Flyer has a bag of holding full of bags of caltrops. Flies 1500 ft above army, and starts dumping the bags of caltrops out on top of the troops below. Safely out of bow/spell range hundreds of spiked objects fall to the ground making troops have to perform dozens of reflex saves to avoid 187 dmg on a success, 375 dmg on a fail, and 750 dmg on a crit fail. on the off chance that someone should actually survive, they are now also surrounded by a field of caltrops to cross!
This rule is in need of tweaking, Paizo! ;)

OK, so the idea that "damage is based on distance, with a max" is assuming standard atmospheric pressure/friction, a normal-sized creature's terminal velocity, and a normal-sized creature mass/velocity (momentum/kinetic energy).

Clearly, a caltrop has lower mass and lower terminal velocity, so it won't do as much damage. But spiking the ground around the army preventing movement? At the least, it will disrupt formations, possibly morale.

The other issue? If I were to take 100 points of damage if I hit the hard ground (doing 100 to me, and 100 to the ground, for 200 points total, right?), but instead hit a much softer body of a foe, then shouldn't it be closer to 200 points total damage, but on a good acrobatics roll my opponent takes the majority of the damage, and I only take a smaller amount? (NB: Because of soft hitting soft, instead of soft hitting hard, there will be less total damage. Unless, of course, it's soft hitting soft hitting hard, and I manage to knock them down. Sheesh. Mechwarrior had DFA rules. Champions had DFA rules at one point (too many flying super heroes :-). Why don't more rules realize that if player can fly, "ramming speed!" means flight bashing.)

This still doesn't account for the case of accelerating down for faster speed, or carrying 600+ pounds of mass in magical carrying bags (it's still impact mass even if I don't have to deal with the weight while flying, right?)


Saros Palanthios wrote:

For purposes of Crafting items, are "raw materials" interchangeable between items?

If a PC buys a certain amount of raw materials intending to craft a suit of Full Plate, can they later change their mind and use the same raw materials to craft an Oil of Weightlessness instead? Can a PC "disassemble" a Potion of Healing and then and use the disassembled parts as raw materials to craft a mundane Longsword?

Or should the raw materials used to craft an item be specific to that item in some fashion?

If I were the GM, I'd rule that the raw materials are specific to the type/class of the object unless you had the "mad scientist" trait. So your materials for plate armor can only be used for something involving metal or armor, and even then not all of them will be usable on your new project (25-50% loss in useful parts).

People such as McGuyver, Agatha, etc., can make use of anything :-).


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CAN FLAMING SPHERE BE USED MORE THAN ONCE PER TURN?

The playtest version of the spell specified you could only concentrate on it to target a square once per turn. Now it seems to have lost that language and I can't find anything in the general rules for the Sustain action limiting it to once per turn for the same spell. But 3d6 3 times per turn for 1 minute seems like rather a lot for a 2nd level spell. Especially one with no MAP.


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Is it intended that neither "Intimidating Glare" nor "Intimidating Prowess" interact with "Scare to Death"?

The "Intimidating Glare" and "Intimidating Prowess" feats both specify the Demoralize action (or Demoralize/Coerce for the latter) and "Scare to Death" is not the same as the base Demoralize action. From an intuitive or RP standpoint, it feels really bad that neither of those effects would apply to one's ability to use Scare to Death.

For a gameplay example, imagine an Animal Rage Barbarian (with Raging Intimidation) roaring directly in an enemy's face (using Scare to Death). It makes no sense that a) the enemy needs to "understand my language" and b) my threatening physical appearance would have no bearing on the attempt.


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slaygeist wrote:

Is it intended that neither "Intimidating Glare" nor "Intimidating Prowess" interact with "Scare to Death"?

The "Intimidating Glare" and "Intimidating Prowess" feats both specify the Demoralize action (or Demoralize/Coerce for the latter) and "Scare to Death" is not the same as the base Demoralize action. From an intuitive or RP standpoint, it feels really bad that neither of those effects would apply to one's ability to use Scare to Death.

For a gameplay example, imagine an Animal Rage Barbarian (with Raging Intimidation) roaring directly in an enemy's face (using Scare to Death). It makes no sense that a) the enemy needs to "understand my language" and b) my threatening physical appearance would have no bearing on the attempt.

why does it not make sense?

"scare to death" isn't an upgrade to Demoralize, it is it's own thing.

Let me put it this way:

"an Animal Rage Barbarian (with Raging Intimidation) roaring directly in an enemy's face" is really just Demoralizing the enemy. It's exactly what you were doing 1 level prior when you didn't have Scare to Death.

In order to scare him so much that the target may actually DIE on the spot, then on top of that the barbarian needs to graphically explain what he's planning to do to the victim, his entrails, and his family.


Agree with shroudb, plus remember that you can do both back to back. Demoralize first to lower their will DC and fort save for the followup Scare to Death. Hopefully boosted by a wizard friend's Diviner's Sight for a lucky guaranteed roll before you have to roll yourself.

Shadow Lodge

Looks like they're AGAIN not answering questions today.


thistledown wrote:
Looks like they're AGAIN not answering questions today.

Dude, they made no promises to; they have jobs and families. You can rest easy knowing that compiling our questions in this thread will be useful to the design team for the next Q&A Paizo Friday stream, not to mention for formal FAQ and errata--and giving the design team time to all get together and discuss what rulings they do want to settle on for those FAQs and errata documents will be much more useful to us players than it would be for a lone member of the team to try to give us his "best guess" at an answer, only for it to then be overruled upon proper consideration.

Saros Palanthios wrote:

The Acid Splash cantrip deals 1 splash acid damage on a hit. However, the spell does not have the Splash trait.

Should the splash damage be applied to all creatures adjacent to the target or only to the target itself?

Yes, that's what splash damage does. What the lack of the splash trait brings into question is whether any splash damage should be dealt on a failure.

PossibleCabbage wrote:
A 12th level character has both the 12th level "extra refocus" feat (e.g. meditative focus, primal focus, domain focus) and the basic bloodline spell from the sorcerer dedication. If they do something specific to their class, (e.g. pray, meditate) for 10 minutes while refocusing, they will regain 2 focus points. How many focus points will they regain if they don't, and take advantage of the "you can Refocus without any special effort" clause in Basic Bloodline Spell? Is it 1 or 2?

Page 302's sidebar on focus points from multiple sources tells us that you can Refocus "as long as you follow the guidelines of any abilities that granted you focus spells". Feats like Domain Focus and Meditative Focus don't specify that you have to pray or meditate, they only say that you have to Refocus, so whether you're a full sorcerer or a multiclass sorcerer, you get the full benefits of Refocusing without any special effort, because Refocusing without special effort is specific to the source of your bloodline spells.


Ranger Question:

If a ranger has the Precision edge and later grabs "Double Prey", can they apply their precision damage to two targets in a turn? This is assuming both targets are made hunted prey with Double Prey and then, with separate attacks, hit and damaged.

This is difficult to ascertain as precision states you can only apply it to your prey once per round. But prey can be singular or plural - making the meaning difficult to determine here.


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Syri wrote:


Saros Palanthios wrote:

The Acid Splash cantrip deals 1 splash acid damage on a hit. However, the spell does not have the Splash trait.

Should the splash damage be applied to all creatures adjacent to the target or only to the target itself?

Yes, that's what splash damage does. What the lack of the splash trait brings into question is whether any splash damage should be dealt on a failure.

Can you please tell me where it says splash damage is Aoe?

Because the only thing I see is the TRAIT is dealing "aoe damage equal to your splash damage"

Without the trait, the only thing "splash" damage does is triggering splash weakness/resistance.

Nothing more.


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With regards to the Skill Feat Battle Medicine, how many free hands, if any are required to use it during an Encounter and is a Healer's Kit also required on hand?

prototype00


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I know animal compagnion can get speed and AC bonus from item,familiar never benefit from item bonus...but what about other minions like with raise dead ritual or animate object? Minion section say nothing about that.


Revivifying Mutagen and Greater Fueld Discovery:

A mutagenist alchemist can use two mutagens at once. Can he use this feat to end only one of them or will both end every time it is used?

Also, when hit with a polymorph effect, the mutagenist can end up with having only the drawbacks and no benefits from his mutagens. Can the feat be used to get rid of the drawbacks?


About Trick Magic Item:

"TRICK MAGIC ITEM [one-action]

You examine a magic item you normally couldn’t use in an effort to fool it and activate it temporarily. For example, this might allow a fighter to cast a spell from a wand or allow a wizard to cast a spell that’s not on the arcane list using a scroll. You must know what activating the item does, or you can’t attempt to trick it.
Attempt a check using the skill matching the item’s magic tradition, or matching a tradition that has the spell on its list, if you’re trying to cast a spell from the item. ...

Success: For the rest of the current turn, you can spend actions
to activate the item as if you could normally use it.

...
"
As we read, this feat can only be used on magic items that need no more than two actions in a turn to activate.

It's very usefull in encounter mode, but in exploration or downtime mode, why this feat could not allow to use items that takes more time to activate? For exemple why a character that have this feat can't use a teleport wand, for exemple?

I understand that this feat is designed primary for encouter mode, but why not extend it?


As written, Shuriken do not benefit from Monastic Weaponry. You cannot use any monk class features with them because that only applies to melee aeapons. Is this an error?


Blave wrote:

Revivifying Mutagen and Greater Fueld Discovery:

A mutagenist alchemist can use two mutagens at once. Can he use this feat to end only one of them or will both end every time it is used?

Also, when hit with a polymorph effect, the mutagenist can end up with having only the drawbacks and no benefits from his mutagens. Can the feat be used to get rid of the drawbacks?

if a polymorph effect counteracts your mutagen it counteracts its entirety, that is BOTH boons and flaws it gives.

you don't only lose the boons.


shroudb wrote:

if a polymorph effect counteracts your mutagen it counteracts its entirety, that is BOTH boons and flaws it gives.

you don't only lose the boons.

In general, yes. But the greater Field Discovery of the Mutagenist says

Quote:
If you imbibe another mutagen while you are under the effects of a mutagen that you created, you can gain the benefits and the drawbacks of both mutagens at once, despite the fact that they both have the polymorph trait and would not normally function together. If you come under the effects of any further mutagens while benefiting from two mutagens, you lose the benefit of one of the former mutagens of your choice, while retaining the drawbacks of all the mutagens. If you are under the effects of two mutagens and you come under the effect of a non-mutagen polymorph effect, you lose the benefits of the mutagens while retaining the drawbacks of both.


Blave wrote:
shroudb wrote:

if a polymorph effect counteracts your mutagen it counteracts its entirety, that is BOTH boons and flaws it gives.

you don't only lose the boons.

In general, yes. But the greater Field Discovery of the Mutagenist says

Quote:
If you imbibe another mutagen while you are under the effects of a mutagen that you created, you can gain the benefits and the drawbacks of both mutagens at once, despite the fact that they both have the polymorph trait and would not normally function together. If you come under the effects of any further mutagens while benefiting from two mutagens, you lose the benefit of one of the former mutagens of your choice, while retaining the drawbacks of all the mutagens. If you are under the effects of two mutagens and you come under the effect of a non-mutagen polymorph effect, you lose the benefits of the mutagens while retaining the drawbacks of both.

Yes, but

a) That's probably leftover language from playtest,

And b)
even if you take it as raw, then it's a specific thing of the ability.

Nothing in the general rules says anything even remotely to that.

So, if you don't have said "ability" polymorphs counteract Mutagen negatives.

In general, the whole "mutagenist" archetype obviously uses playtest rules (the whole 1st level ability as an example is baseline for ALL in live version and etc.)

So, I gather that since said ability purpose is not to make you worse, it's just "leftover from playtest" like the rest of the stuff on the archetype.


Even if it is only leftover text, it still needs some clarification. Even if that clerification is just "yeah, ignore those sentences".

We can assume all we want, we won't know for sure unil the designers chime in.


Blave wrote:

Even if it is only leftover text, it still needs some clarification. Even if that clerification is just "yeah, ignore those sentences".

We can assume all we want, we won't know for sure unil the designers chime in.

I agree that it needs clarification.

But also it's raw that without said ability, polymorph effects do dispel the negatives as well, since only the specific application of said ability changes the general rule.

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