Starfinder Enhanced

So this is the end of Starfinder then?

Twas fun while it lasted!

pours a 40 on the curb in memoriam.

Book with over 100 new options to enhance the play of the game, and to balance classes that people have complained as being underpwoered gets announced. "So this is it then, the end?" asks someone who just wants to rile others up.

Scalable equipment sounds great! I'd love to see more details. If the skill system isn't revamped, and multiclassing and archetyping aren't fixed, I will probably not be back until SF2.

Also would love to see 3 action economy and 4 degrees of success!

Will there be any changes to combat, specifically the addition of the 3 action economy?

captain yesterday wrote:

So this is the end of Starfinder then?

Twas fun while it lasted!

pours a 40 on the curb in memoriam.

The book is called Starfinder Enhanced, not Starfinder Extinction.

Between this book and the cancelling of the Starfinder AP line the writing is on the wall.

"The writing" in this case is actually not on the wall, but contained inside a 192-page hardcover publication providing major sought-after improvements to the system. Kind of sounds like good writing, to be honest.

Driftbourne wrote:

captain yesterday wrote:

So this is the end of Starfinder then?

Twas fun while it lasted!

pours a 40 on the curb in memoriam.

The book is called Starfinder Enhanced, not Starfinder Extinction.

Between this book and the cancelling of the Starfinder AP line the writing is on the wall.

The AP line is not canceled. Paizo's just changed the formatting to hardcover books. We must be reading different sides of the same wall. The one I'm seeing says Starfinder has a bright and exciting future with no end in sight.

I need someone to explain to me with very small words how new content means the end is nigh.

If the new book was all about The Dominion of the Black, then I think it would be safe to say the end is nigh. in character

I need someone to explain to me with very small words how new content means the end is nigh.

I think its kind of panic that started with when they downsized from two SFS scenario in month to one SFS scenario in month and bounties. Like, even if they release one or two ap hardcovers per year, it feels less than 6-12 ap/module books in year.

(I've personally been worried that module line is ending with just five products x'D)

But yeah, I do think taking Starfinder's unchained version as final nail in coffin as just kind of silly, biggest thing is whether there is one or two hardcovers adventures per year and whether module line is going to get new products in it or not.

I need someone to explain to me with very small words how new content means the end is nigh.

Because Pathfinder Unchained was testing the waters for PF2. A lot of stuff that made its way into the final game, such as 3-action economy, was floated in PU. Since Paizo started the development of PF2 in 2015, it all makes sense - they wanted to see how some concepts would be received, while at the same time providing fixes to some of the most problematic PF1 classes and much-requested optional rules.

You're right that it was 4 years between PU and PF2, but back then Paizo had to develop an entirely new ruleset from scratch, now all they need to do is tailor an existing one to handle the Starfinder style of game. Which leads me to conclude that end is indeed night and the stars are dying, doubly so that Paizo has scaled back the Starfinder APs into occasional hardbacks.

SF2 is some 2-3 years away at this point. If I'm wrong, feel free to chase me around like all those "PF2 will flop and Paizo will go bankrupt" people from 2019 :)

I personally prefer the hardcovers over separate chapters, it saves $ on shipping, and if you have a fast playing table, you're not waiting for the next chapter to arrive in time. But it is a big shift in how Paizo does business, and with the change just happening, were not used to the new release schedule. Not sure yet how far in advance we'll get release notices now.

But all signs are looking up for Starfinder Paizos made several statements in interviews showing strong support and excitement for Starfinder. This announcement is certainly exciting. The OGL mess isn't just helping Pathfinder Starfinder is getting new players too. It might not show that much in the official forums, but over on Reddit, Starfinder is getting around 22 new people a day. A lot of them are people coming over from 5e. I find it hard to not be excited about the future of Starfinder. Whatever version that might be.

Can't wait to get it ... are sure this will be October 23 and not April 23 ??? :-)
Are you considering adding variant rules that would allow a gameplay closer to PF2e with 3 actions and a reaction :-)

I Enjoy all the new impulse I am seeing in Starfinder, with Drift Crisis and Horizon of the vast and I starting acquiring former publication !! hope the quality will continue to surprise me !!

Looking forward to this.

captain yesterday wrote:

Driftbourne wrote:

captain yesterday wrote:

So this is the end of Starfinder then?

Twas fun while it lasted!

pours a 40 on the curb in memoriam.

The book is called Starfinder Enhanced, not Starfinder Extinction.

Between this book and the cancelling of the Starfinder AP line the writing is on the wall.

The AP line is not canceled. Paizo's just changed the formatting to hardcover books. We must be reading different sides of the same wall. The one I'm seeing says Starfinder has a bright and exciting future with no end in sight.

Yes, the side I'm reading also has Alternity and Star Wars d20, among others. Sci-fi RPGs usually don't have long life cycles.

Scalable equipment sounds great! I'd love to see more details.

My preference would be for it not to be tied to particular equipment at all. If a 15th level character has somehow been imprisoned and grabs a gun from the 3rd level guard, they should be able to do 15th level damage with it. The equipment system in Starfinder is one of the main reasons I got turned off from the game.

As handy as it is to compare this to Unchained, it's not doing that. This is including a dozen new playable species, and options for all the existing classes, not just putting in as many alternate rules as possible. It's not introducing a new action system to test-pilot it, it's introducing narrative ship combat for groups that aren't keen on having a second set of combat rules in their personal games. All in all, it sounds like it's as much a regular options-focused Starfinder book as it is a chance to polish off some things that have bothered groups for a while.

Looking forward to when we get a blog post talking about the book's goals, though.

Y'all, stop feeding the trolls. Do not engage.

Apropos of nothing: oh look, "Baiting" is a Flaggable Offence ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Not a SF player, but I'd like to be in the future, so this seems like something I'll keep an eye on.

I'm looking forward to this! Pathfinder unchained was one of my favorite books from PF1e and I'm looking forward to seeing the new iteration.

Perhaps the thing I'm most excited about is the starship combat. I've been using the rules from Star Wars d20 enhanced edition to run starship combat in Starfinder, but I'm hoping the new system is a bit more intuitive.

The few tines I have played SF tge ship combat was clunky. Hopefully this will fix that.

We continue to have plans for Starfinder that extend years into the future.

Y'all, stop feeding the trolls. Do not engage.

Apropos of nothing: oh look, "Baiting" is a Flaggable Offence ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I will have you know I'm an actual person with feelings and emotions and thoughts and guts and all that so please don't insult me (don't worry, they have a flag for that).

Plus, I've been invested in Starfinder since it's inception, and I have pretty much every other sci-fi RPG produced.

And this is a pattern I've seen all too often so I don't see how pointing out my concerns is "baiting".

To make a comparison, there's a big difference between "I think the OP could have phrased this better, and I worry people will struggle to engage with this thread in a polite, constructive manner" and "lol IBTL".

One is a lot punchier, and easier, and more satisfying to drop in the chat, but it's also not a very respectful or helpful way of engaging.

Your follow-up clarification posts felt a lot more substantive, and I think those would have been better to lead with than, "Well, beginning of the end. *begins fiddling on the walls of Rome*".

To make a comparison, there's a big difference between "I think the OP could have phrased this better, and I worry people will struggle to engage with this thread in a polite, constructive manner" and "lol IBTL".

One is a lot punchier, and easier, and more satisfying to drop in the chat, but it's also not a very respectful or helpful way of engaging.

Your follow-up clarification posts felt a lot more substantive*, and I think those would have been better to lead with than, "Well, beginning of the end. *begins fiddling on the walls of Rome*".

*Aside from the barbs at keftiu, obviously.

That's fair, I can agree with that.

I stand by my statement that they are seemingly ramping down Starfinder as the sunsetting of the AP line and now this do not leave me confident for the future as it's pretty much what every sci-fi RPG does.

For the record, Starfinder is and will always be my favorite RPG so I very much hope I'm wrong.

And people calling me stupid or implying I'm just here to stir the pot (for only voicing concerns I have with various products that don't even concern them) will not make me go away so you might as well stop insulting me (especially since I haven't insulted them).

It looks like the back-and-forth from earlier got deleted, so I removed that asterisk. Love ya, keftiu. <3

TNG obviously dealt with those people on other sites, TMS. Lots of other Pathfinder sites out there, you know. You gotta keep up! Don't know where you're getting the "banned account" nonsense, either.

They didn't sunset the AP line though. They restructured it. The AP line is still in existence and is actively being developed. It's just not the same format it was.

They didn't sunset the AP line though. They restructured it. The AP line is still in existence and is actively being developed. It's just not the same format it was.

So far the only product announced is a compilation of SFS scenarios. As soon as they announce something actually new I'll happily retract that!

Really hoping they add optional 3-action economy rules. One of the best in the PF1 Unchained book. Bring it to Starfinder too!

Cori Marie wrote:

They didn't sunset the AP line though. They restructured it. The AP line is still in existence and is actively being developed. It's just not the same format it was.

So far the only product announced is a compilation of SFS scenarios. As soon as they announce something actually new I'll happily retract that!

They confirmed at GenCon that they are working on a mech AP hardcover after the SFS hardcover.

Removed some posts for violating Guidelines. Please keep the topics at hand to the point of the product post.

I could see Starfinder surviving a lot longer on patches than PF1 could. The system is a lot more stable than PF1 was.

While some of PF2's innovations are great, not all of them fit what Starfinder needs. I am curious to see how SF shakes out in the future.

Really hoping that the changes to the starship combat will make it feel more integrated with the rest of the game. My biggest gripe was that it felt like it was an entirely different game that's only loosely connected to what characters are normally doing

I will have you know I'm an actual person with feelings and emotions and thoughts and guts and all that so please don't insult me (don't worry, they have a flag for that).

Plus, I've been invested in Starfinder since it's inception, and I have pretty much every other sci-fi RPG produced.

And this is a pattern I've seen all too often so I don't see how pointing out my concerns is "baiting".

It all comes down to whether we're getting another hardbound release this year. Last year they released 2 books and a collectors edition of Dead Suns as a "third", which I pointed out was not in fact a new release for 2022.

If Enhanced is the last core hardcover release for 2023 (which I suspect it is) then yes, between AP releases being slashed in half starting with HOV in June 2021 and hardcover releases being slashed from 3 to 2, it's definitely "slowing down".

Which is fine, there's a lot of content out for it already, they're giving us the big starmap this year, the only thing on my want lists are a Planar book and a "The Vast" sourcebook with more Azzie info. But we shouldn't pretend that these are salad days of SF.

Of course, Paizo has been deceptive about Starfinder from the beginning. I had to find out from Stephen Glicker that Starfinder was always intended as a bridge product between PF1 and PF2, and it was only the support of us hardcore fans that kept it going past Armory, Pact Worlds, and Alien Archive 2.

Sure, random person (yes I know who it is), said Starfinder was only supposed to be temporary and never go past P2 being released and you believe them wholeheartedly and therefore Paizo is being "deceptive" about... something, assuming they did indeed say those things.

If the new book was all about The Dominion of the Black, then I think it would be safe to say the end is nigh. in character

Oh man, I'd love some more detail on the Dominion of the Black. I'm not caught up with everything, but has there been an significant adventure material concerning them? I'm really only aware of one standalone adventure and one Society Scenario where you even dare head to Aucturn.

And people calling me stupid or implying I'm just here to stir the pot (for only voicing concerns I have with various products that don't even concern them) will not make me go away so you might as well stop insulting me (especially since I haven't insulted them).

I don't think they're trying to make you go away, they're possibly just trying to help newcomers unfamiliar with your body of work to judge the usefulness of your analysis.

Oh man, I'd love some more detail on the Dominion of the Black. I'm not caught up with everything, but has there been an significant adventure material concerning them?

Nope.

I'm excited to see what's in this book, whatever it portends for SF in general. The witchwarper in particular excited me from day 1 in a narrative sense, but the actual mechanics were less thrilling. I had a random idea that if I were to port this to PF2, the primal spell list would be what I would use (and set off an internal quest to find a way to narratively bridge primal with witchwarper), so I'm curious if that would remain true for this revamped version.

The big thing for me about the Witchwarper is Infinite Worlds. Very cool thematic concept and in theory super flexible, but they hyper short duration and impact means I've never used because a spell of the same level is always better in practice. It might also be fun if you could choose to use a RP instead of a spell to activate.

Sure, random person (yes I know who it is), said Starfinder was only supposed to be temporary and never go past P2 being released and you believe them wholeheartedly and therefore Paizo is being "deceptive" about... something, assuming they did indeed say those things.

There was a year long gap between the release of AA2 and AA3 and a year and a half between Armory and COM. If Pathfinder 2e went that long without a core release everyone would say it was dead.

The "year and a half between Armory and COM" included AA2, the beginner box, and AA3, so the assertation that that there was a year and a half between main releases is made in bad faith at best.

It was also one of the biggest gaps between main-line products and was three-to-four years ago.

Eight hardcover releases between March 2020 and November 2022 is substantially more relevant data to the conversation.

That said... comparing Pathfinder and Starfinder is pointless. They're different product lines have different release expectations, and comparing apples and oranges isn't productive.

I'm not surprised that Starfidner slowed down at the release of PF2e as people when to check out the new shiny game. But Starfidner did survive.

The latest slowdown for Starfinder came went the Paizo Workers Union was forming. One of the issues then was the pace of the workflow at Paizo. So with a smaller Starfinder staff, I'm not surprised by a slowdown.

Pathfinder is not the only one getting more players from the OGL mess. I see new people to Starfinder daily on Reddit, and the number of people signed up for the Starfinder Reddit is growing even faster. In the last few weeks, at least 30,000 people have gotten the pdf of the Starfinder CBR

I just don't see any reason to think the game is not growing now. I highly expect Starfinder to break any records for longest running Sci-Fi game. I think the real question is by how much will it break the record.

If the new book was all about The Dominion of the Black, then I think it would be safe to say the end is nigh. in character

Only if you suspect that they'll finally succeed *this time*.

As far as the end of SF being nigh... that's sort of true for every TTRPG. How many companies can you really expect to be around a decade or so from now? How many are going to support an edition of a TTRPG for... what, six years now (seven if you count the year between announcement and release)? How many are going to put out hundreds of adventures and dozens of supplementary books?

Yes, output on SF has slowed down. No, it doesn't appear it had the confidence of certain higher-ups initially. Yes, there are some points that are pretty creaky. Yes, it's hit its maturity point.

But it's been one heck of a success. If we get another 3-4 years before another edition, that's roughly the same lifespan as other "failures" like PF1 and D&D5E.

Not sure why the militancy on both sides here. Enjoy what we have, look forward to the future.

A difference like from D&D 3E to 3.5E, that is great. Just publishing the errata in a formal place, and including some of the later options into the core book.

But a fully new edition is a hard pass for me. I came to Starfinder from D&D because so many of the changes made the game feel like it was being simplified to make it more new player friendly, which if you're not a new player, just makes me feel like they're treating me like I'm dumb.