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Wayfinders

I would think of it as a big cavity under a glacier in Antarctica

Google says:
"Subglacial lakes: Antarctica has over 400 known subglacial lakes, with the largest, Lake Vostok, spanning 12,500 square kilometers."

Just drain the water.

Wayfinders

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Gary Bush wrote:


I am glad I am not in your lodge. We would likely clash and clash often because of your almost hostile and confrontational attidude.

Or you two might get along just fine in person, but the internet is getting in the way.

Wayfinders

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After reading Era of the Eclipse, I'm excited to see the Order of the Eclipse appearing in a scenario.

Wayfinders

Shadows can overlap or change over the course of a day or year, so both can be true. Also, in a place called the Absurdity, I wouldn't be surprised if physics somehow works differently. In SF1e, the Absurdity was just a name on a map, so all the lore we have on the Absurdity so far is in the Galaxy Guide. Sidenote: The absurdity came from Thurston Hillman's Howbrew game. That's all we know so far.

Wayfinders

I'm still hopeful things will change. I even bought special hero points for Guilt of the Grave World

hero points

Wayfinders

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Great timing, having this adventure come out in October. The hero points I'm using for this adventure.

Hero points fit for Guilt of the Grave World.

Wayfinders

Madhippy3 wrote:

There doesn't seem to be any guidance for GMs if a PC wants to accept the bad guy's offer. I get its not a common thing to worry about but the bad guy legitimately asks for people to come peacefully on their terms. Its not as outrageous of other false choices we have seen in TTRPGs, and eventually someone is going to do it if for no other reason than to go against the grain. Leaving the GM to make something up.

Going to be a common problem? Not in the slightest. But I would have liked to see a short response for what stops a PC from accepting the offer.

It's on page 10 Sarmak asks the PCs to maintain order inside the building while he heads out to ensure the Functionary remains peaceful.

Something else to point out to players who want to join with the Functionary is that the Wreck of the returned seems to control everyone working for it, which means their character would become an NPC. Also, Sarmak might ask them to turn in their Starfinder badges. An alternative is to turn it into a spy mission, but that's something only doable in a home game, not being played in organized play.

Wayfinders

Both the Nodocite ability Reality Bubble and the Reality Distorter say it's a burst effect, but the description sounds more like it should be an emanation.

Reality Bubble:
The ground in a 10-foot burst around the triggering creature becomes difficult terrain.

Reality Distorter:
Your armor unleashes a bubble of distorted reality keyed to the quantum signature of the triggering creature in a 10-foot burst centered on you.

I had made paper burst templates for this, so that's how I ran it today, but to use the template, I can't center them on the target and have to pick a map grid, which seems off for placing it around or centered on a target.

Not sure which way is right?

Wayfinders

kaid wrote:

My reading of the cold rules is if you have the level one thermal mod that protects you from moderate cold would reduce the effects of sever cold to what moderate would do and extreme to what sever would do.

So while not totally immune to to the more sever colds even the basic thermal mod is like wearing a winter jacket and does lessen the penalties one category.

That's how I see it working, too, but the cheapest armor that it can be used with costs 15 credits plus the 120 for the commercial-grade thermal capacitor. That only leaves you 15 credits for weapons and other equipment when starting.

Wayfinders

kaid wrote:
Driftbourne wrote:


We also don't have environmental clothing yet, so running a low-level survival adventure is either a really good or bad idea, depending on the level of challenge you are looking to give the players.
All armor that does not have the exposed trait is basically environmental clothing. You can use a mod slot for better protection against specific things like if you are on a toxic atmosphere or hot/cold.

But not at low levels. There is a 1st-level SF2e scenario that has severe and extreme cold. To deal with severe cold takes a 6th-level thermal regulator, and a 10th-level thermal regulator for extreme. Even the 1st-level thermal regulator is too expensive for new characters to afford.

Cold and hot environmental damage in SF2e/PF2e is automatic 1d6 or 2d6 plus fatigued, with no saving throw, like in SF1e. In SF1e, environmental clothing gives you a bonus to your saving throws, so maybe there's no environmental clothing anymore because of that, or if they add it again, it would have to work differently.

Wayfinders

I think in all the SF1e scenarios I've played in, only one had a need for food, but to survive on rations only, you would have needed more than a month's worth.. Although having food on hand has come in handy to try to befriend wildlife.

I remember using rations and R2E meals in the playtest. They are rarely used in Starfinder organized play since you can assume travel time on a starship, the ship has food for the trip. Unlike Pathfinder, there is rarely an overland trip lasting more than a few hours to get somewhere in Starfinder.

60 credits to get both the camping kit and Explorer's canteen is a lot for a 1st-level character.

We also don't have environmental clothing yet, so running a low-level survival adventure is either a really good or bad idea, depending on the level of challenge you are looking to give the players.

Wayfinders

To play Starfinder x Warframe: Operation Orias, all you would need is the SF2e Player Core.

The price of the PDF is $8.99, which suggests it's around the size of a standard organized play scenario, which are PDF only, but from the description, it looks to run a bit longer at 4 to 6 hours. The PDF is available on October 31

Starfinder x Warframe: Operation Orias.

I don't see the stock number on the Paizo store. Where did you see the stock number?

Wayfinders

I'm running Mystery of the Frozen Moon, a second time, this time as a play-by-post. Of the PCs, during asked about how they would be getting there. When I said they would be taking a starship on their own, one of the players seemed excited to be the pilot.

Although there's nothing for a pilot to really do in the adventure, I decided to add the roll for drift travel time so the pilot would have something to roll. Then I decided to modify one of the ship stat blocks from Guilt of the Grave World, and posted it for the PCs to see, so they would feel like they are on a real ship. When the PCs encounter Daskar Kopalak, I'm going to let them scan the other ship, just to give them something starship crew like to do.

I also realised before this game who Nib was in SF1e, so I made a replacement NPC of my own to replace my Nib idea to add more to the Daskar Kopalak encounter. My new NPC is a janitor for the Starfinder society, whom the PCs meet before the mission briefing starts. The new NPC asks the PCs questions about their past missions and backgrounds to help get the PCs introductions going, and as the GM it helps me learn more about the PCs too.

Wayfinders

I also agree that consistency would be nice to have. Also agree that having free Starfinder Lore would be good. Unless you are a skill monkey, most classes don't have enough skill slots to take something like Starfinder Society Lore, and the classes wiht the fewest skills could really use the boost by having a free skill that is not related to their core class.

I'd also like to see provisions in SF2e. Pathfinder provisions are a great backup for when a group of random players shows up and no one is or has any healing. Although I suppose another way to deal with that situation in SF2e is to run encounters in easy mode.

Wayfinders

Something else I'm having a hard time getting people to try is the Infinity Deck, and the main reason again is that it's not sectioned. I always carry my Infenity Deck in case we are short players to get a table going, or if a game runs fast and we have extra time. Having a generic chronicle that gave players 1 ACP for each hour of playing the Infinity Deck might help. I was hoping to have a day where we just try out the deck so if we needed to use it to fill in, we have experience using it, but no luck so far.

I'm also thinking that a scenario that uses the Infinity Deck would help. Maybe as a reality TV show event. Add some skill checks to scope out the competition and catch an NPC that is cheating, which leads to a fight. Maybe hero points could also be used to redraw a card instead of a reroll.

Wayfinders

If you are looking for some starship action, it's in Guilt of the Grave World. Trying to leave this spoiler-free free I'll just hint at what's in it.

There are more Cinematic Starship Scenes in Guilt of the Greave World than there are examples in the GM Core.

Unique crew actions for NPCs. I think this is huge; it means that who you pick up as NPCs can have different crew actions. This adds a lot of versatility beyond traditional shipbuilding.

There is a crew action for landing. It's not very complex, but compared to SF1e, which had no landing action at all, it's a nice inclusion.

One thing I'm really liking about Cinematic Starship Scenes is that they can be finely tuned to each encounter. The author or the GM can make up wherever they need to fit the encounter.

Wayfinders

Another reason I don't think we will see mixing classes in organized play soon is that devs on both sides of the fence had to wait for Sf2e to be out before doing a lot of testing on how to mix it. There was some of that in the play test, but you really need the final version to test it right. Also gives the player base time to try it out on their own and give feedback, before anything official is done. Meanwhile, I think there are a lot of interesting options to try out right now.

Wayfinders

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I think one reason we don't have PF2e classes in SF2e organized play yet is that the devs want to give Starfinder a chance to be Starfinder first. To that end, it's likely only a few PF2e classes at a time would be added in. For one, I think the investigator makes more sense in SF2e than PF2e. Although it could use some updated features to fit the flavor more. I think the fighter would be great for Vesk Doshko honor guard. I like the idea of PF2e rouges in SF2e, so we have a rogue that is not also a hacker, at least not as a class feature.

For organized play, I think the biggest issue is not access to PF2e classes or ancestries; it's that the organized play rules are not compatible between SF2e and PF2e.

I have lots of interesting ideas for characters with just the classes we have now, and I never even got around to playing all the classes in SF1e. So I'm in no hurry for more classes than I can play. But anytime you have a new game, there are fewer options, so I try to build characters that we have not wanted. I wish we had, and I'm never disappointed. I still like getting new options, but I'm not in a rush for them.

Wayfinders

Madhippy3 wrote:
My question is should PCs be explicitly warned if they use Exposed armor that they will likely die? Does seem like maybe this should be made more explicit what the environmental effects are?

I don't think the adventurer was written intending for it to be so deadly. It was likely written before the Player Core came out, so the writer didn't know that there was no environmental protection available at low levels, and there isn't even winter clothing available yet. So hand-waving it is a perfectly fine option.

I think using the environmental damage would be very deadly for a 1st-level party, especially since the boss monster can do 3-6 points of damage to the entire party in one attack. On top the that, the party would be fatigued from the cold too.

My compromise was not to use the cold damage, but to have the party make some survival skill checks to deal with the cold. Like having to stop once in a while and build a fire to stay warm. The group I ran it for chose to do the explorations checks first and then spend the night on the ship, so they were not exposed to the cold for as long at one time.

But if you do want to use the cold damage, I'd ask the players, since it turns the adventure into extra hard mode.

Wayfinders

Madhippy3 wrote:
Driftbourne wrote:

The Realy has an interesting rule I have not seen used before.

"Non-participants may loan the participating PCs equipment but may not otherwise assist in any way."

I'm courious how/if players have been taking advantage of this.

Is this a new rule? I always believed a PC could give another PC their equipment, but that it is automatically returned (if not consumed/destroyed) at end of session.

So far I haven't seen this much used. A player shared a Celebrity Serum once and I as a player used spells to buff, but this is only a 1-2 and players likely have what they need / can afford. The basic kit is cheap enough I assume everyone has.

This is just for the race rules. Only 2 PCs do each challenge. The other PCs can't aid the skill checks or cast spells to help out; the only thing they can do is loan equipment. No equipment is actually transferred between players.

When I ran it, the only thing loaned out was a grappler.

To be super competitive in this race, I think a party would need to plan in advance to take advantage of the loan equipment race rule. Harder to do to at 1st level when you don't have a lot of free credits. It's the kind of thing that needs a session-0 or letting the players know after that game the week before, so they have time and credits to plan for it in advance.

Wayfinders

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Squiggit wrote:
I do think one thing that might be compounding it a bit is that the SF2 classes are somewhat narrower than their SF1 counterparts.

I think you are right, but it might be a good thing too. With PF2e being compatible with SF2e, that's a lot of classes. To have any design room left for more classes, it helps to make them more narrowly focused. It's also easy to add more features to or add new subclasses.

I'm also guessing that, over time, we will see some PF2e classes allowed in SF2e organized play. There's a big difference between allowing a PF2e character in SF2e and making an SF2e character with a PF2e class.

Wayfinders

The Dragon Reborn wrote:

I mostly play SFS so I'm limited to the core starfinder classes and subclasses. The big lure that pathfinder had for me was build diversity. In D&D organized play, it felt like there was 1 optimal way of building each build. You want an archer, these are your class and feats. In PFS, if I want a gish, I can play a magus, warpriest, kineticist and each build plays and feel different. In sfs, I guess Solarian is closest to a gish. I'm sure 5 years from now there will be more and better options but at a 2 year pace, it may take that long.

I get the limited staff argument but we are now getting a second book of ancestries before another class. With 20+ out already, that would not have been my call. The prioritization seems off. Worse, the overreliance on dex based, gun based characters is disappointing and making the classes that exist very samey.

The tech playtest classes are usable in organized play. Now that the playtest is over, it's hard to find the PDF for it if you don't know what to look for, so here is the link

tech playtest.

The "Cantina Feel" was one of the top priorities of SF1e players when SF2e was announced, so not surprised that there are more ancestries than classes. SF1e had over 140 playable species. SF2e is only missing 4 classes from SF1e

Wayfinders

That's the only image I didn't check... But it's also easy to fix. Have Arvin conduct the briefing through video conferencing, and have him apologize for the bad connection.

It is odd that the Arvin is low resolution when there is already a high resolution of the same image. Had that happened to a map, I think it would have been more critical to fix, but it would have been nice if it had been updated with the Chronicle Sheets.

Wayfinders

pauljathome wrote:
It would definitely be nice to have more classes but 6 (8 if you include the 2 playtest classes) is definitely enough to be getting along with for now.

To add to that, the precog was combined with the Witchwarper, so we have 9 of the original 13 Sf1e classes.

Wayfinders

I just got the sides up last night. I'm still doing some prep. Supersuperlative is waiting for a game to finish; hopefully, we hear from them soon about how long that game has left. I got some ideas to extend the introductions, but that's the part I'm working on right now. I also have a live game on Thursday. I think with or without Supersuperlative, we can start the mission briefing on Friday, and if Supersuperlative needs more time, the first part is not critical, so easy to have them start a bit late.

Wayfinders

I didn't know there was a low-resolution image in 1-06, so I didn't check when I originally posted. I don't play on VTTs, but zooming in 500% on my 14-inch screen, all the images look fine to me. I didn't save the old version to compare it to.

Wayfinders

It's not just people wiht 3 jobs that don't have time, many of our players and some GMs are college students, the ones the GM only do so between semesters, even some of the players stop playing during the semester. We also have GMs that only have one job, but so much overtime that they had to stop GMing.

I support keeping stat blocks in, but if it doesn't happen, or just in general, I'm interested in how to prep efficiently. I don't have a printer at home or even a computer, so I have to prep carefully so I only have to make one trip to the printer.

As others have pointed out, and I only recently discovered, Pathfinder Society GM Shared Prep (which includes Starfinder) is a big help.

The other factor is not how much time prepping takes, but how much time you have to do that prep. I give myself 2 to 3 weeks to prep a scenario. I know that for some of our local GMs, prep is reading the scenario a day or 2 before they run it.

Wayfinders

I ran this adventure to today. It ran a little over 4 hours, but easily could have been run quicker. One reason it ran long was that I added some winter survival skill challenges to identify snow pinwheels and determine avalanche hazard risk by them. I also added the bit with Nib I posted above.

Also, the PCs asked what time of day it was when they landed, and I just off the top of my head said midday. There were worries that, without proper winter gear that it would be better to wait until sunrise, so there would be plenty of time to get to the site and back. So the PCs spent the first day collecting samples of local plants and discovered the claw marks from a large creature.

This led to the PCs going back to the ship for the night, and the players OOC sharing their real stories of winter survival, and camping in remote areas where it's so quiet you can't sleep because your hair is making too much noise, the horrifying sounds of trees cracking in the wind, and the sound of sap coming from trees. This all really added to the atmosphere of the game, and although OOC could have been the same conversations the PCs would be having on an isolated planet. The next days, the PCs were very engaged with the winter environment of the game.

It also helped the players get to know each other better. I have been playing with 2 of the players for over 2 years, and didn't know them very well, because in the past we had often been rushed for time, or when not rushed, the game finished on time, but with no extra time to socialize. So I really like the shorter adventures to have some time for a bit of table talk.

Something else fun that happened in-game, because the PCs spent the first night on the ship. I had them wake up to their ship being surrounded by
Lu-Venon tracks. I waited a while before they encountered Ulea Su-Tae. So they spent part of the day wondering what was out there, checking them out.

Wayfinders

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Players' guide for Guilt of the Grave Worlds is in the works due to popular demand.

The announcement for it is around 59 minutes into the video.

Paizo Live Oct 3 .

Wayfinders

Once in a lifetime deal, beachfront property on Akiton! Going fast! Act now before it's too late...

Have debt related to your timeshare on Aucturn? We can help you get the best settlement to get out of debt fast.

Wayfinders

I don't have any examples off the top of my head, but I love the idea.

This is great for Crit fails or Dubious Knowledge. But often real spam happens on its own. I'm thinking that if done right, spam could be a great way to add a little extra to the new, shorter scenarios. I think it would be fun to print out the spam to make it look like a semi-official handout. That would increase the DC of the player's perception and sense motive checks.

New activity for 10-minute breaks; clear spam, anyone not doing something during a 10-minute break gets spam.

Another use of spam could be a news flash in-game that OOC would be an advertisement for next week's game.

BREAKING NEWS: New frozen Moon discovered around a gas giant in the vast.

BREAKING NEWS: Next week, live from Absalom Station, it's the Great Absalom Relay. Register your team now to join the fun in the biggest charity event of the year!

I got to go prep for tomorrow's game, but I'll be back to spam this thread later...

Wayfinders

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Kishmo wrote:

Khajiit did Kishmo did nothing wrong! Kishmo is innocent of this crime! What is the charge? Enjoying a sanctioned adventure? Enjoying a succulent, generically sanctioned, adventure?

(Maybe some shitposts will help the cause? I'm trying here, ok? XD)

I don't have a s!+*post in mind, but I do have a conspiracy theory. The "Guilt" in Guilt of the Grave worlds is that the leaders of Eox feel bad about not scantaining adventurers on Eox. In the final chapter of the AP, the PCs have to convince the leaders of Eox to sanction the AP.

reposted to fix the quotes

Wayfinders

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VampByDay wrote:
John Woodford wrote:

GameDay runs through late November. However, at least some of the games here that started in early September should be winding down soon.

I'm already seeing open game announcements on Discord, if that's more your jam.

I just want to get into Starfinder 2e and no one in my local group is playing it.

Change of plans, I think I can handle one more game.

I'm running Mystery on the Frozen Moon in a live game Saturday. I still need to do some prep for it tomorrow. Give me a few days, and I'll start recruiting to run it on the forums here. It'll be under the GM name GRIM*! Gaming Network. I'll need some time to prep it for Play by Post. The earliest start date would be the end of next week, but it may be longer depending on how recruiting goes.

Wayfinders

VampByDay wrote:
John Woodford wrote:

GameDay runs through late November. However, at least some of the games here that started in early September should be winding down soon.

I'm already seeing open game announcements on Discord, if that's more your jam.

I just want to get into Starfinder 2e and no one in my local group is playing it.

There are 2 big online Play by Post events each year, Gameday and Outpost. Gameday XIV started September 4, 2025, and runs through November 26, 2025. The events are great ways to find games, but the downside is that there's very little to no recruitment after the event starts. Between the big events, it's normally pretty easy to find a game.

Here's the game day listing to give you an idea of how many games are going on.

Gameday XIV tables linsting.

Recruitment for the big events are normally listed in a Google Doc and not directly done on the forms, since there are also Discord games and once in a while some games at Myth weaves too.

Unfortunately, it looks like you missed the event listing link that was 2 posts above your first post, looking for a SF2e game. Cmlobue had also made a link for you to the recruiting Doc. Just pointing this out so you know what to look for next time. Between the big events, this is the right place to look for recruitment posts.

I'd offer to run a game for you, but I'm looking for a job right now, my schedule could change anytime, so I don't want to start any new commitments right now.

Wayfinders

Your wlecome.

I must have seen the first notice for #1-05: Sloughscar Summit right when it came out. I got a notice for #1-06: Magic in the Mist about 40 minutes later. It could have been delayed because my internet connection was going out again.

Wayfinders

PastPresentParticiple wrote:
In the envoy archetype, Really Get em adds 2 to both the initial and subsequent strikes and is picked up at the same level the main class ability would be getting plus 2 as well. It would be strange if the main class ability was outmoded by the archetype. Definitely ambiguously worded, I lean toward including the bonus to the initial strike for the main class as well.

Good catch.

So the archetype doesn't get Really Get 'Em! until 8th level, so the +2 is consistent for a full Envoy at that level.

Really Get 'Em!
You gain the Lead by Example benefit for your Get ’Em! directive, except you and your allies get a +2 status bonus to damage on both the initial and subsequent Strikes.

So looks like the Envoy, if it had more space in the book, should read.
Increase the damage by 1 at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th levels on both the initial and subsequent Strikes.

Wayfinders

When something is hard to figure out, I break it down like this.
_______________________

Lead by Example:

If you used two actions,
Strike the target.
You gain a status bonus to the damage roll equal to your Charisma modifier.

Regardless of whether the Strike hits,
you and your allies gain a +1 status bonus to damage on subsequent Strikes made against the enemy until the start of your next turn.
>Should this space be here or not might change the meaning<
Increase the damage by 1 at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th levels.

______________________

The only reference to the damage is in the first strike. But if it was only meant to be added to the first strike, then I think it should have been stated before the part on subsequent Strikes. It also doesn't say the increase is for "first Strike," or "subsequent Strikes." So, I think it applies to both.

If it was intended to work on only one, looking at the physical book, there is only about 2 letters of space left to add "first Strike," or "subsequent Strikes."

One option to clarify subsequent Strikes that would have fit the page is to change.
Increase the damage by 1 at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th levels.
to
Increase this damage by 1 at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th levels.

or to clarify both damages.
Increase all damage by 1 at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th levels.

Not perfect solutions, but fits the page.

Wayfinders

I was checking my email before going to the printer to print out Sloughscar Summit and Magic in the Mist, and saw the notice that Sloughscar Summit was updated yesterday. When I went to download it, I also saw that #1-06: Magic in the Mist was also updated. The notices said Sloughscar Summit updated to fix an error on the Chronicle Sheet. Just courious why #1-06: Magic in the Mist was also updated?

Edited, I found the issue with both Chronicle Sheets. All the check boxes in the adventure summary section were already checked.

Wayfinders

Kishmo wrote:

Khajiit did Kishmo did nothing wrong! Kishmo is innocent of this crime! What is the charge? Enjoying a sanctioned adventure? Enjoying a succulent, generically sanctioned, adventure?

(Maybe some s!+*posts will help the cause? I'm trying here, ok? XD) [/QUOTE

I don't have a s!+*post in mind, but I do have a conspiracy theory. The "Guilt" in Guilt of the Grave worlds is that the leaders of Eox feel bad about not scantaining adventurers on Eox. In the final chapter of the AP, the PCs have to convince the leaders of Eox to sanction the AP.

Wayfinders

Hilary Moon Murphy wrote:
Driftbourne wrote:

Someone asked about this on the Guilt of the Grave World product page and linked to this thread, and they got an answer. I suggested that the person asking the question spend a hero point to reroll their diplomacy check, but it didn't work.

I think Discord is really useful for smaller groups, like a local SFS group, to help run game nights or events. Outside of that, I get lost trying to follow conversations on Discord that seem to have no start or end. I can't imagine how people manage to play by Post on Discord.

Personally, I wouldn't mind GMing or playing something not sanctioned, although I'd prefer to, but no one I know wants to play unsanctioned adventures. I also can't find anyone willing to try the Infinity Deck for the same reason.

I wouldn't allow the hero point reroll since I don't think that Kishmo failed his diplomacy check. Kishmo was polite and to the point.

Good point, so maybe it's an influence campaign, and Kishmo's success advances the cause, but we don't know how many points we need in total.

I was going to suggest using Bullhorn, but since Paizo is aware, perhaps a better option currently is sense motive.

Wayfinders

Someone asked about this on the Guilt of the Grave World product page and linked to this thread, and they got an answer. I suggested that the person asking the question spend a hero point to reroll their diplomacy check, but it didn't work.

I think Discord is really useful for smaller groups, like a local SFS group, to help run game nights or events. Outside of that, I get lost trying to follow conversations on Discord that seem to have no start or end. I can't imagine how people manage to play by Post on Discord.

Personally, I wouldn't mind GMing or playing something not sanctioned, although I'd prefer to, but no one I know wants to play unsanctioned adventures. I also can't find anyone willing to try the Infinity Deck for the same reason.

Wayfinders

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If they are standard card size, you can put them in 9 pockets, 3-ring binder pages.

I also agree with BNW on usability vs whitespace. I'm ok with some white space to avoid page flipping when possible.

Wayfinders

If it Dance Partner is only meleee, Battle Ribbin seems to be made for an Envoy with Dance partner. Even better if your partner is a Dragonkin you are bonded to. Besides reach a Battle Ribbion also has Finesse and trip, which goes well with the dance theme. If your dance partner also has reach, that works even better.

Wayfinders

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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Finoan wrote:

I'm sorry that you are sad.

That is one of the few downsides of doing public playtesting. People get to see the rough drafts of these classes - some being too weak and some being too strong. And if the playtest version is decided to be too strong and is reined in for the release, then people will naturally like the playtest version better because it is stronger.

the 2es have a problem where abilities tend to be fairly weak, so nerfing them turns them into an absolute nothingburger. I don't think its the fault of the powergaming munchkins when something just plain isn't worth using, ever.

One of the benefits of 2e is having a lot of optional actions, but that exacerbates the above problem. Anything you want to add on to that pile HAS to be at least situationally better than the other options your character has or it doesn't get used. IE, if something isn't better than firing a pistol at -10 its the same as it being worthless.
Starship combat had that problem when options were worse than "more hands on the guns"

The listing for Starfinder Galactic Ancestries is now up on the Paizo store. It says it has "a host of stellar options for familiar ancestries, including Starfinder favorites like reptilian vesk and insectoid shirrens," not sure if that's the complete list of core ancestries getting new options, but I'd be surprised if it's just those two.

I suspect the book you are hoping for is the Compleat Guide to Ysoki Cheekpouch, a 400-page book with a fold-out poster-sized map showing everything you can fit in a cheekpouch. I'm also hoping for the Complete Guide to pizza topping from around the galaxy for shirren, so many options... so many choices... I think the Vesk book would just be the Alien Core, renamed Things You Can Hit With A Doshko, with the end of the book having more types of doshko.

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ElementalofCuteness wrote:
IT has good ideas but why can't Get'Em add full Charisma to your damage?

It does for your attack when you also use Lead by Example in the same round, and everyone else also gets +1 to their damage, too, on top of the +1 to hit. If everyone hits in a party of 6, that's an extra 9 points of damage if the envoy has +4 charisma.

I converted my SF1e operator that pretended to be a safety inspector to get easy access to buildings, to an SF2e through desperate times envoy with the watch out feat, and then specialized them in finding and disabling hazards, who is now a real safety inspector. They use a boom pistol (boost and razing)to deal with hazards that have hardness.

I have yet to play my enovoy, where they were the only envoy in the party, so we took turns using Get'Em. Even with 2 envoys, Get'Em wasn't always used; the players tended to try to use their leadership style instead when the situation worked for them. A lot of the players here are using enovys to play rock stars. I'm also using envoy for a goblin vidgammer with an infosphere channel that thinks they are the best real-world pilot despite having no piloting skill.

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So Dance Partner lets you flank, but you don't need to be on opposite sides of the opponent to do so. But it doesn't let you avoid the other condition you must meet to flank, which could be summed up as threatening. Since flanking is the only rule mentioned in that sentence, I would still refer back to the flanking rules, which say

"Additionally, both you and the ally have to be able to act, you must be wielding melee weapons or be able to make an unarmed attack, you can't be under any effects that prevent you from attacking, and you must both have the enemy within reach. If you're wielding a reach weapon, you use your reach with that weapon for this purpose."

But since threatening with a ranged weapon would need different rules, it seems best to refer to whatever rules threatening is used with, then making threatening a separate rule.

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Ectar wrote:
Driftbourne wrote:
Squiggit wrote:
ninjaelk wrote:


All that being said, I also have no idea what is going on with Dance Partner. Do we have any clarification on what "threaten" means in the context of sf2e?

I just checked and you're right, the concept of threat/threatening with a weapon is never defined in SF2 player core.

.. To be honest I'm having trouble finding a definition in PF2 material too.

It's on page 255 of the SF1e Core Rule book. At least that's where it came from in Starfinder.

Reach and Threatened Squares .
It's trivial to find in PF1E material as well. But that's still a failure for the text of Dance Partner.

Never played PF1e so wouldn't know. But after reading Dance Partner, I don't see any problem at all.

Lead by Example: If you used two actions, you and your selected ally count any enemies that you both threaten as being flanked, regardless of your relative positions, until the start of your next turn. Your ally becomes concealed against ranged Strikes made by creatures within 10 feet until the start of your next turn or the ally moves, whichever comes first.

Key word flanked

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HolyFlamingo! wrote:


Circling back to what I said earlier about over/underpowered options, I'd like to acknowledge that, yes, stronger and weirder options are part of Starfinder's appeal.

This is the Cantina feel you often hear the developers talking about.

HolyFlamingo! wrote:


All that said, vesk are still a little more popular than dragonkin at the tables I've seen so far, likely because they're free and come with a lot of fun lore and flavor

Vesk were way more common in SF1e. I've been to a lot of parties with a vesk. It was one of the most commonly played species. I never once was in a game with a Dragonkin. That may have been because dragonkin came later in SF1e.

Something no one has mentioned is that vesk are medium and draginkin are large. Being large has its drawbacks. Large creatures have to squeeze through 5-foot-wide corridors; in a 10-foot-wide corridor, it's easy to block your own party. More opponents can engage you in melee at one time, and more opponents can flank you at one time; you're a big target.

Partner Bond is really hard to use in organized play unless you have a friend who plays your Bonded Partner that you know will be at every game with you. Easier to do in a home game, but it's an option that still takes 2 players to make it work; it's a powerful benefit, but it has a cost that playing a vesk or almost any other species doesn't have. Also, lots of species in Starfinder have limited telepathy that doesn't require bonding.

Vesk have a lot of lore, most of the book Near Space is about their home star system. They are involved in a major war with the Azlanti. Vesk have deep and varied history wiht the Pact Worlds. Dragonkin lore is mostly focused around planet the Triaxus.

Meanwhile, I know players who only play humans because they don't want to give up getting an extra general skill feat.

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