Starfinder Enhanced

For whatever it's worth, I'd love to see a version of Starfinder more integrated with 2e. My group gave it a shot a while back and wound up a little burnt out by the 1e-but-not situation. We missed the old action economy!:P

We'd definitely give it another try it it was a system that felt more familiar to us, and easier to drop a newbie player into. That said, I'm really excited about this new book regardless! The Paizo devs and des's always do great work.

I suppose a Starfinder 2E would be a likely choice for the period just before Pathfinder 3E.

Or perhaps a slightly less futuristic setting for a Starfinder-like game is in the works? I was really looking forward to that Shadowfinder that Owen K.C. Stephens was working on. Maybe Paizo had him stop because something like it was in their future plans?

I'd be surprised if a PF3 was on the way anytime soon, especially at a time when PF2 is seeing such massive success, but I guess I've seen stranger business decisions this year!

What's the point of going to SF2e to make PF2e players want to play Starfinder and then release PF3e? That puts us right back where we are. Unless SF2e is the same as or close to PF3e, it would make more sense to me to drag out SF until closer to when PF2e is ready for a new version. Then release SF2e while PF3e is in development like they did last time. If this did happen, I wouldn't expect it any time soon. Both SF and PF2e seem to have fewer core issues than PF1e. No reason they both couldn't have a longer life span than PF1e. Especially with lots of new people coming over from the OGL mess. For a lot of new people, both games are just a month old.

Ravien999 wrote:

Totally Not Gorbacz wrote:

Starfinder Unchained! So, SF2 is not far behind :)

God, I hope not.

Why? A SF2 based on PF2 and fixing some of the biggest issues with the rules (lack of scaling cantrips, starship combat, Ivory Tower design) is quite a frequent call around here.

I don't mind revisions and updates but don't make it a whole new game like PF2 did (making everything already out just about usless)

From the perspective of player choice in character advancement, I'm disappointed not to see mystic included in the list of classes with new versions. Mystic is the only class where the player does not get to choose their character's new special ability at every even level. Instead, they pick a connection at level one, and the special abilities gained at even levels are chosen for them. They are not able to mix and match different "paths" as other classes are. I understand from a gameplay/mechanical balance perspective this may not be an issue, but it does feel unbalanced from a player choice perspective.

I am excited to see adjustments to starship combat and scaleable equipment however!

From the perspective of player choice in character advancement, I'm disappointed not to see mystic included in the list of classes with new versions. Mystic is the only class where the player does not get to choose their character's new special ability at every even level. Instead, they pick a connection at level one, and the special abilities gained at even levels are chosen for them. They are not able to mix and match different "paths" as other classes are. I understand from a gameplay/mechanical balance perspective this may not be an issue, but it does feel unbalanced from a player choice perspective.

I am excited to see adjustments to starship combat and scaleable equipment however!

I had the same initial reaction. Luckily mystics do have epiphanies as alternate class features, and there are some decent ones. Hopefully we get even more of them in this book!!

A difference like from D&D 3E to 3.5E, that is great. Just publishing the errata in a formal place, and including some of the later options into the core book.

But a fully new edition is a hard pass for me. I came to Starfinder from D&D because so many of the changes made the game feel like it was being simplified to make it more new player friendly, which if you're not a new player, just makes me feel like they're treating me like I'm dumb.

AMEN!

From the perspective of player choice in character advancement, I'm disappointed not to see mystic included in the list of classes with new versions. Mystic is the only class where the player does not get to choose their character's new special ability at every even level. Instead, they pick a connection at level one, and the special abilities gained at even levels are chosen for them

that is what epiphanies are meant to resolve I think

PF Unchained and PF2 were four years apart. Why would Starfinder Enhanced suggest anything more sudden than that? If I had a new edition planned, I wouldn't bother putting out a half-update right before.

This is a logical assumption. There are some options that I am looking forward to in Starfinder Enhanced, particularly the narrative starship combat system.

SF2 is some 2-3 years away at this point. If I'm wrong, feel free to chase me around like all those "PF2 will flop and Paizo will go bankrupt" people from 2019 :)

I think quantity of content is more significant than time between releases - the more sedate SF release schedule would suggest to me you should add a couple of years to your prediction.

I'm not going to chase you though, I'll scowl at you from my porch Gran Torino style.

Scalable equipment 1000% yes - I have hated SF 5-tiered weapon scaling from the beginning because in all the science fiction i grew up with nobody changed out their weapons more than once in their career. Hans modified blaster is as icon to him as the Falcon. Equipment modding and refining I am fine with, but its how a character handles the weapons that should scale in power (with their levels) not the weapons themselves.

Now if Paizo would please kill the exponential economy scale and divorce wealth from character level and power I would be even happier.

Maybe we'll get a version of Solarian without dead levels.

I loved the concept of the Witchwarper but in practice, it didn't quite feel like what I'd hoped. Looking forward to an updated take to see if that scratches the itch! Scaling equipment and narrative battles also sound very intriguing.

In short - yes, please!

Preview blog: Starfinder, enhance… Enhance… ENHANCE!

Quite happy with this announcement and very much needed!!

Quite curious if the OGL "thing" then fully ORCed? made this show up a bit sooner than planned??

This seems to be most def a smoothing of the way to get SF into SF II within a year or two, can't wait for the playtest for that to come out! Woot Woot

The new Starship combat is key for me, gear less so and most of my players make the classes work as is, but will be nice to have new options.

Thinking the Jenny Unnamed Mech AP should be a perfect fit to try some of the new stuff out!!

Tom :)

Quite happy with this announcement and very much needed!!

Quite curious if the OGL "thing" then fully ORCed? made this show up a bit sooner than planned??

This seems to be most def a smoothing of the way to get SF into SF II within a year or two, can't wait for the playtest for that to come out! Woot Woot

The new Starship combat is key for me, gear less so and most of my players make the classes work as is, but will be nice to have new options.

Thinking the Jenny Unnamed Mech AP should be a perfect fit to try some of the new stuff out!!

Tom :)

This book was scheduled and not affected by the OGL.

Thanks Aaron for the heads up, by the by bud, will you be in any PAIZOCON Live panels? I know your promo from last year kept ya out as I recall but hoping you make it in at least as a mod if not more :)

Tom

PS

And yes as usual took vacation to get in on all the panels LIVE!! Ha Ha Ha

Thanks Aaron for the heads up, by the by bud, will you be in any PAIZOCON Live panels? I know your promo from last year kept ya out as I recall but hoping you make it in at least as a mod if not more :)

Tom

PS

And yes as usual took vacation to get in on all the panels LIVE!! Ha Ha Ha

Thanks for the ask. I have not planned to be in any panels yet. I'm leading the planning committee, so I'm overseeing the big picture. I'll mod if it makes sense, but usually I shine the spotlight on others in the company.

Got it, thanks bud and hope your well settled in and happy in your job :)

Tom

Interesting that based on this interview, we don't actually get books pitched by Thurston before this book :O So whatever current creative director of starfinder side of things has pitched is stuff that is completely unannounced

Is the world really ready for whatever Thurtsy has had months and months to percolate?

Melinda R Schreffler wrote:

From the perspective of player choice in character advancement, I'm disappointed not to see mystic included in the list of classes with new versions. Mystic is the only class where the player does not get to choose their character's new special ability at every even level. Instead, they pick a connection at level one, and the special abilities gained at even levels are chosen for them. They are not able to mix and match different "paths" as other classes are. I understand from a gameplay/mechanical balance perspective this may not be an issue, but it does feel unbalanced from a player choice perspective.

I am excited to see adjustments to starship combat and scaleable equipment however!

I had the same initial reaction. Luckily mystics do have epiphanies as alternate class features, and there are some decent ones. Hopefully we get even more of them in this book!!

I hope so too! I originally wrote epiphanies thinking that we were going to see a lot of new ones over time, and that hasn't been the case. We definitely need some customization love for the Mystic. Being the strongest spellcaster shouldn't mean that you don't get to customize much.

Re: the "Starfinder becomes PF2 Compatible" discussion, I know my personal hope is that when the time for a Second Edition comes, that Starfinder takes a few good ideas from Pathfinder 2E like the 3 Action Economy and transitioning the Leveled Equipment system to a Mk upgrade system that mirrors fundamental runes in PF2, but also gives itself the space to be it's own game. I'm not in Starfinder Enhanced (I was assigned to Into the Dataverse at the time, and that was a three-month project), but I think a book like this that turns Starfinder into the best version of itself is better than a theoretical book that turns Starfinder into a different version of a different game and am really excited for it to get into people's hands! Including mine.

I was really looking forward to that Shadowfinder that Owen K.C. Stephens was working on. Maybe Paizo had him stop because something like it was in their future plans?

As far as I'm aware, Owen was never contacted by Paizo to not do Shadowfinder. I think the stall was more about his health, which hasn't been great for a while. He's currently diagnosed with Stage II Colon Cancer and there are two different PDF Bundles (Bundle #1 and Bundle #2) up to help him try and cover the costs.

I asked him a few months ago, and he said he's very intrigued by Starfinder Enhanced and is looking forward to seeing how a new crop of designers moved the game forward.

Is the world really ready for whatever Thurtsy has had months and months to percolate?

I suspect the world is not ready for Thursty's mad machinations.

Crittercon 6's Keynote address is live with our Starfinder Managing Creative Director Thurston Hillman.

Find out about Crittercon 6 as well as upcoming releases like Ports of Call and Starfinder ENHANCED in this interview!

David knott 242 wrote:

I was really looking forward to that Shadowfinder that Owen K.C. Stephens was working on. Maybe Paizo had him stop because something like it was in their future plans?

As far as I'm aware, Owen was never contacted by Paizo to not do Shadowfinder. I think the stall was more about his health, which hasn't been great for a while. He's currently diagnosed with Stage II Colon Cancer and there are two different PDF Bundles (Bundle #1 and Bundle #2) up to help him try and cover the costs.

I asked him a few months ago, and he said he's very intrigued by Starfinder Enhanced and is looking forward to seeing how a new crop of designers moved the game forward.

I had already picked up Bundle #1 and was considering posting about it. Thanks for the heads up on Bundle #2.

Came here today hoping the devs would tease something to make up for the foul taste reading through "Fly Free or Die" left in my mouth and instead I found... I should have known better then to come back. There's a reason why I wrote off Starfinder a couple years ago...

"SeCONd EDiTIon!" Look, you guys have been saying that since the first "Starfinder Alexa" adventure and that was... what? three years ago now? Four? Please just make like Frozen and "Let it go."

I could go on about how the real reason why the game is "dead" is because of the toxic community and some very poor decisions Paizo has been making since the game launched back in 2017 (pretty much everything with adventure paths) but getting back on topic...

Regarding Starfinder Enhanced, I am interested but not completely sold. I will be watching and we'll see what happens. The bullet points are a nice start. I already see a couple things I wanted since COM.

… wut

It seems he really dislikes people who keep asking for new editions?

How does "Starfinder Enhanced", which "totally revises core classes" compare to, be influenced by, or be affected by the release of PF2e "Remastered" series.

And, wil SF Endhanced by OGL or ORC licence?

How does "Starfinder Enhanced", which "totally revises core classes" compare to, be influenced by, or be affected by the release of PF2e "Remastered" series.

And, wil SF Endhanced by OGL or ORC licence?

More on that at PaizoCon in late May.

It seems that there is no Starfinder 2nd edition coming up on the horizon after Enhanced, according to this Thurston Hillman interview: https://blubrry.com/stfplays/95676173/strange-table-fellows-unlimited-episo de-14-thurston-hillman/

I have to admit I was excited about enhanced mostly because of the implications for a new edition. I guess I am left with hoping that there is A LOT of enhancement in this book.

It does'nt really say that in that interview........

Here is a fresher one that Jason Keeley comes back to Paizo from Renegade, (PF II though) and a really great youtube chat.

SF II about 3 years out, give or take.

:)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgU7cWCS_s4

Tom

Even then I wouldn't treat that as gospel, pretty sure even Mr.Keely is guesstimating. I think what we should take from it is that it's been talked about and thought about a little, but nowhere near actually being developed or on any sort of release schedule.

caribet wrote:

How does "Starfinder Enhanced", which "totally revises core classes" compare to, be influenced by, or be affected by the release of PF2e "Remastered" series.

And, wil SF Endhanced by OGL or ORC licence?

More on that at PaizoCon in late May.

This sounded like ORC to me.

Super excited for the book! My one complaint at this stage, we missed an opportunity to use "Reloaded" on the cover of a Starfinder product.

How does "Starfinder Enhanced", which "totally revises core classes" compare to, be influenced by, or be affected by the release of PF2e "Remastered" series.

It's also easier to revise classes in a new book than to errata them to oblivion :p

Ugggghhh... alright, I guess I need to get this book and Galactic Magic, Tech Revolution and the mech AP. But since 2E probably will release in, as reported above, three years, this will be the last Starfinder stuff I buy for a long while, unless they release more low level to high level AP material. I still haven't played a single game of Starfinder with my players (the planned short adventure fell through, sadly), so this is more of a personal collection interest, I guess.

I'd be surprised if a PF3 was on the way anytime soon, especially at a time when PF2 is seeing such massive success, but I guess I've seen stranger business decisions this year!

My presumption is that Pathfinder Remastered is the press on the reset button of the usual 10 year timer for a new edition, i.e. we'll get Pathfinder 3E announced about 2032, coming out 2033-34.

I am betting not as the same crew on the you tube channel mentioned again SF II within 3 years.

For me as I have said before I think in the end it will be a combo remaster and SF II, or even perhaps a SF 1.5 But ya know the math has to change to get a 3 action economy so if that happens I think most will view it as a new edition as if the math changes that the key for a new edition in most peoples books.

Speculation I know but so curious on any Playtest in the future be it a remastered one or the real deal of a SF II.

I know I've gotten my moneys worth out of SF I!! :)

We will see but just excited for Expand as well as my many SF players.

Tom

To be clear, somebody at paizocon confirmed that there 100% isn't going to be SF 2e in three years, I don't think it means we will get edition in four years, just that its not in the plans currently :p

Where was this specifically? I was looking at (and there live) all the Paizocon panels and every discord post and did not see that, or is this info from something else?
If so, not sure what to say, as getting a remaster, then a couple years later a whole new edition, seems quite off and counter productive, but thats just me I guess.

Honestly would'nt be to happy with that specific scenario, but if thats how it ends up, not much I can do but post I would'nt be to happy with that.

Tom

Where was this specifically? I was looking at (and there live) all the Paizocon panels and every discord post and did not see that, or is this info from something else?

If so, not sure what to say, as getting a remaster, then a couple years later a whole new edition, seems quite off and counter productive, but thats just me I guess.

Honestly would'nt be to happy with that specific scenario, but if thats how it ends up, not much I can do but post I would'nt be to happy with that.

Tom

Not sure particularly, I think it was Thurston but I don't remember perfectly where so I could be wrong

Well, sounds good enough to me. I actually already got two hardcovers last week, since I'm on board with AP's now being released as a single volume hardcover. At least for the two which go to level 15 and 18 respectively, I'm on board for that.

I hear ya on the various things said, theory crafted and such. I did not ask about that as Thursty had enough on his plate already that weekend, and then some and did'nt want to put him on the spot to have to be cagey and such.

I'll have to quizz the youtube crew but I would assume they can't say anything more on the subject at this point in time.

So still good hope as far as I know a Remaster and SFII could be in the works within 3 years, and maybe combined. Thats only 1 year off of the 10 ear cycle, but still a year is a year as I am not getting any younger!! LOL

Earliest remaster I can see is next year as I posted before is after PF II is done then. So that gives Expand a full year for us to play with it and to note if we like the direction or not. AS that would be quite helpfull for the SF II play test I would think.

And as I posted before, Starfinder as it is seems so clunky NOW, once you play PF II, compared to the the PFI version of SF. Before it was good to go but one can really feel that changing Starfinder can make it that much better, and it really needs it to keep it fresh and on the "math cutting edge" so to speak.

And as the Adventures are still so in flux plus a have to do a remaster, the next couple years is the perfect time as I see it.

Tom

I can tell ya that one thing clear during Paizo Con was that every time some gamer brings up Starfinder 2E (or insists that it's coming) a little bit of light fades from the devs' eyes.

I'm also confused how you got idea that its coming WITHIN 3 years when I literally just said "I think in AMA they said its 100% not coming within 3 years, we know the book schedule up to then and that's not it" :'D