It's too bad this book is releasing so long after the Tian Xia World Guide. A more coordinated release would have been nice so we could play around with the world guide lore using Tian Xia character guide characters.
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136 pages for $50? Yikes. This product page at least has some interesting info. It shows more than anything they had to say in the "showcase".
Do we know when the players guide will drop?
It astounds me that this is on Kickstarter. Paizo is one of the largest TTRPG publishing houses in the industry right now with decades of success, and BKOM Studios is a successful videogame development company that's been in the industry for a number of years now with quite a few projects under their belt. That you (Paizo) and they, in partnership, decided that you need your customers to subsidize development costs is incomprehensible to me. This is a disgusting business model for you to use, and if it speaks to what kind of plans you might have for future projects, it's dire.
It doesn't go nearly far enough to bring me back to Starfinder, but I'm happy to see the system get a bit of a tune up.
There were three uncommon Kobold snares in Grand Bazaar. Damn, you got me. Guess three's better than none.
So much for Snare Setter ever seeing the last part of this line be of any use: "You gain the Snare Crafting feat, though when choosing your formulas for that feat, you can also choose from uncommon kobold snares, as well as common snares." Tresure Vault would have been an excellent place to see some Kobold snares, especially since it's narrated by a Kobold. Still waiting for that future proofing so many people fell all over themselves to proclaim when I pointed out years ago that there were no uncommon Kobold snares and anticipated that there never would be.
Bombs do not have the Thrown trait though.But the item doesn't ask for a trait. It asks for "one-handed thrown weapons". Note the lack of capitalization on thrown. As such, it uses thrown in the general sense [which bombs qualify] as opposed to saying 'weapons with the Thrown trait'. By that logic you can put rocks in there since you can throw them as improvised weapons. Good luck convincing a DM of that though.
Not to be a party pooper here, but bombs techically don't have the thrown trait, which means rules as intended might not have them them work with the bandolier. I hope they do, but, well yeah Bombs do not have the Thrown trait though. While they are descriptively thrown weapons, mechanically they are different. Descriptive text is not always an indicator for mechanics. That it has been this long since release with many MANY debates across the internet, and Paizo hasn't clarified their intentions here is a bother. Perhaps it is intentionally vague to allow GM's enough wiggle room to decide for themselves. But by Raw, since they do not have the thrown trait, they would not benefit from anything that references thrown specifically (feats or runes or equipment) though they are clearly ranged.
I'll add to this. As pointed out, voluntary flaws were the only way to achieve certain arrays like 18/14/14/14/8/8 or a number of other ones presented above. +2/+2 simply can't do it. Now the only way to achieve something like that is to play any of the handful of ancestries left with +2/+2/+2/-2. So while it might be nice to see everyone get the same stat versatility as a human (even if I think it's a big middle finger to the human who is supposed to represent versatility and that's why they were the only ones that had that), there are now a handful of ancestries that have a clear advantage in the stats that can be generated because they can choose the +2/+2 OR keep their +2/+2/+2/-2. That's a design decision that doesn't make sense to me.
Some discussions here about how Paizo could just rename everything and call it their own (strength becomes brawn, dexterity becomes quickness, etc). But they can't. If you take a piece of published material and republish it, it's plagiarism. If you take a piece of published material, use a thesaurus on all or most of the words and publish it, it's still plagiarism. Copywright doesn't just protect words and the way in which words are written but the ideas in those words. Paizo could make the case that the rules they have in PF2 are so different that it constitutes a different game entirely with only some similarities. But WOTC can make the case that PF2 is built off of the 3e rule set and that, despite how it is written or presented, it is still the D20 3e rule system. Either way it seems to lead to a messy and potentially long court case. I'm less worried about Paizo, and more worried about how viciously OGL 1.1 goes after VTT's. We might see them shutting down or running at significant reduced capacity without support for our favorite TTRPG as soon as a week after the new OGL goes live. I'm worried about all the great work being done with PF2 modules for Foundry. All that could be shut down while this OGL gets dragged through the courts. This isn't going to destroy Paizo, but it will destroy so many other creators, many who have built their livelihood around content creation.
You've been around for at least 2 years and haven't raised it even once. So, yeah, I'm making an easy assumption that you never had a problem with that - likely because your actual problem is not WHAT changes are being made, but WHY are they being made. Game balance thing that results in Small and Medium weapons doing the same damage is fine with you because game balance doesn't trigger you; a change that comes from a societal thing sets you off. Predictable.You don't know if I've ever had a problem with that. What a massive assumption.A 20cm tall Sprite is hitting with a Greataxe for exactly the same damage as 120cm tall Ratfolk, but you never had a problem with that. I've played since 3.0. I've railed against the changes to how small characters were handled after 3rd ed days. I've had those arguments, not here, but certainly in other places. Your entire response here seems to be trying to psychoanalyze me. Go talk to someone else and stop trolling me. I'm not here for that.
A 20cm tall Sprite is hitting with a Greataxe for exactly the same damage as 120cm tall Ratfolk, but you never had a problem with that. You don't know if I've ever had a problem with that. What a massive assumption.
Especially not in a fantasy game where a spider-person has a venomous bite, but humans don't. Or where goblins can bounce like a rubber ball, but a halfling would go splat. The game has so many heritages and feats based off the biology of different species of humanoid, but we aren't going to address those? 10 Hitpoints isn't better than 6? 30 speed isn't better than 25?
If we're going to be equalizing all the ancestries stat choices to address biological essentialism, except for the handful that now has the advantage of three boosts over everyone else apparently, why are we also not equalizing their HP? So now my sprite can be as strong as an orc but it can't have as many Hitpoints? There ARE biological differences between real world species of the same size and weight. Some species are stronger than others, some are quicker, some are quieter. Corvids ARE more intelligent than lizards. It isn't discriminatory to recognize these things. Especially not in a fantasy game where a spider-person has a venomous bite, but humans don't. Or where goblins can bounce like a rubber ball, but a halfling would go splat. The game has so many heritages and feats based off the biology of different species of humanoid, but we aren't going to address those? Many heritages and feats based of heritages make them physically or mentally better than others at certain things. Is that not biological essentialism? That's not problematic? Why divide ancestry feats up by 'ancestry' at all? How is it not any more problematic that some ancestries get Darkvision for free at level 1 while humans have to wait until level 5 and spend both of their ancestry feats to get it AND be from the Nidalese ethnicity (or equivalent in their respective campaign) AND be blocked from other ethnic feats? Why does the elf have the highest land speed potential? So we're okay locking some things behind biology but not stats? I'll never be as fast as a dog, or as stealthy as a leopard or able to hold my breath as long as an otter. It's such a weird decision to make to achieve their stated goal of addressing biological essentialism because have they really addressed it at all? More so, did it need to be addressed? I'm not saying biological essentialism should be a factor in deciding the stat options ancestries have, but I am saying that avoiding biological essentialism shouldn't necessarily be a factor either, at least not with such as broad a stroke as they have done here.
If Paizo isn't going to make ancestries with +/+/+/- anymore, they might as well errata the ancestries that have that option to only have +/+ because those ancestries could be seen as having quite the advantage now. most players will prioritize the value of that 3rd boost well over the disadvantage of the flaw, and those ancestries that have that have +/+/+/- now have an option that no other ancestry has or can hope to emulate: 2 boosts or 3 boosts.
What really is the difference between an 8 in charisma vs a 10 in charisma for any character that doesn't use it for a casting stat?If you played the character differently having a 10 instead of an 8, we have bigger fish to fry that has to do with arbitrary conceptions of what the numbers mean and the limits we're imposing on ourselves in a roleplaying context.I really don't know what to answer, I find that these sentences just make no sense. Yes, I like my character sheet to be as close as possible to the character I play. So I make a difference between 10 and 8 Charisma, between +0 (average) and -1 (bad). To add to this, modifiers matter. I've played D&D for over 20 years and seeing that -1 on a character means something. Maybe intellectually we know it's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but emotionally every time our 8 str character fails by 1 a swim check, or a climb check, we see that -1 and feel it emotionally. 'Failing with a +0 is just due to bad luck', our brains will justify', but a -1 'that's a flaw and we clearly failed because of it'. The most interesting heroes are those that overcome their flaws and weaknesses like Rastlin, Dresden, and Geralt, to name a few. Every time we overcome a flaw by holding the door open so the party can escape despite having a -1 to the check or succeeding on a reflex save against a powerful AOE despite having an 8 dex, Or succeeding on a recall knowledge check despite a 8 in the relevant state and we are granted just the insight we need to defeat a powerful foe, that success feels even better than if it was just a 10 because we are emotional and we see an 8 as a weakness where as a 10 is inconsequential. So why does any of this matter in the context of this game? There is an interesting dynamic in games that encourage players to take weakness when building their characters. It sets them up for heroic acts, it can heighten the excitement of normal acts because it feels like overcoming a clear weakness. Some systems understand this aspect of play and even create rules around it like the DM can offer some kind of reward to a player if they take a voluntary penalty on a dice roll. Pathfinder's form of encouraging flaws in characters was that if you liked all the feats and abilities and stats of some certain ancestries, you would have to accept a flaw for that, or you could use voluntary flaws to get a few penalties to something in exchange for a smaller bonus. Both of these options encourage players to accept a weakness and it sets them up for unexpected heroics as they overcome those weaknesses in the future. And yes, you can choose to take penalties all day now when making characters. Only a few of us will do that and even then, it will dimmish any unexpected heroics from those flaws because we choose to have them simply for the sake of having them. It will make it feel artificial in other words. It's not the same as the game subtly encouraging it. Many new players will never have the experience of saving their party by making a roll with something that has a penalty in it because they won't ever choose to take a flaw with no benefit. And many parties will never experience rooting for the 8-charisma character who found themselves in the unlikely situation where they are speaking for the party. There's still 10's, I get it, but it won't have the same emotional impact, and that's unfortunate. Maybe I'm just an aging man pining for all the things younger folks won't get to experience. Maybe I'm just guilty of thinking if folks don't experience the things that I have, in the way I have, it can't possibly be as good. But you know, maybe there is some value in what I'm trying to say.
In my games, when players get a successful recall knowledge check I don't just give them what info I want them to have. I tell them the monster, the type, the traits (though if it's uncommon or rare I might withhold some of that), and I let them ask me a specific question. I won't give them solid numbers, but they can ask stuff like: "what is the highest save", "is their AC higher or lower relative to <insert party member>", "what are they immune to", "what are they weak to", "how does it like to fight" etc. On a crit I let them ask 2 questions. Each successful recall knowledge check after the first lets them ask new questions. On the whole my players enjoy being able to ask these questions and they feel like recall knowledge is impactful especially because they get to target the information that they most desire. Maybe, as others have pointed out, if you want to 'fix' how your ranger feels you could address how recall knowledge works in your game so as to highlight that aspect of your ranger's ability. It will also make recall knowledge a more interesting option to all your other players too.
There seems to be little recognition that, while all ancestries now benefit from being able to ignore their regular boosts for a +2/+2 many ALSO can choose to keep their boosts for a +2/+2/+2/-2 which can be more impactful than 2 +2's. Not human though. Everyone gets what you have, and you don't get anything they have.
I mean, the entire game was BUILT with humans getting two free ability boots, and everyone else getting static boosts and one free ability boost and maybe a penalty. That was baked into how ancestries were made (presumably anyway). That every ancestry can now get two free ability boots (just like the human) and still get all the other stuff they normally get is a significantly bigger change than I think a lot of folks here are willing to recognize. We'll see how it pans out in a year. If folks thought taking adopted ancestry for the gnome flickmace was something worth nerfing, you haven't seen anything yet when these rules take full effect. The lack of understanding or appreciating the full extent that these changes will have on how people will build their characters for better AND for worse is jarring to me. That's all I'll have to say on this for now on. I'm just talking to the wall at this point.
I'm not denying any of this. I'm saying that an 18 is not so all important, it is not the be all end all determination of a character being good or playable so much so as to warrant a revision of the rules. But more and more it sounds like that is the primary argument by people about why it was necessary. And if that was part of why Paizo did it, or if that is why people think Paizo did it, or if that's the main reason people are glad they did it, that's unfortunate.
Seems like a lot of arguments here about the new way of doing ancestry ability boosts boils down to making it so 'every ancestry can be effective in any class'. That seems to be born out of the assumption that if you don't have an 18 your primary stat that the character isn't any good. And that is simply not true; it's an assumption that comes from ignorance. It's a sign of a lack of understanding about what actually makes characters effective. What an unfortunate mindset, that you MUST have an 18 in your primary stat to be a good caster, or an 18 str to be a good barbarian or whatever. The difference between a 16 and an 18 is a +1 modifier, which will become less and less important over the span of that character's career. So, to me, if feels like Paizo is essentially capitulating to power-gamers and minmaxers and that toxic crowd that tells off anyone that doesn't have an 18 in a primary stat. "I want to play a dwarf sorcerer, but I can't do it with a 16 charisma whaa whaa whaa." Please.
Not all these differences are trivial as you put it. You seem to forget that other ancestries get stuff like lowlight vision, darkvision, free healing, faster speeds, immunity to certain effects (like sleep), bonuses to rolls against effects. Some of them get Free unarmed attacks like jaws and claws and tails, ranged unarmed attacks, the ability to completely change their shape and so on and so forth.
The changes to ability boosts, that anyone can take 2 free boosts, is unfortunately an unintended nerf to humans. The ONLY thing humans had going for them was that they had two free boosts. They were the exemplars of flexibility. Of course, they have great feats, but every ancestory has a good set of feats depending on what you want to do. Paizo may not have meant to, but by giving every ancestry the same flexibility as humans they devalued the one thing that set humans apart and that is a nerf. It's not a big issue, ya'll, but it IS an issue.
I'm not conflating the issue, I'm recognizing it. As is, using perpetual the elixirs with the healing tag in the Core Rule book is nigh useless. Not every group is going to have access to the Treasure Vault. The core rules should be good on their own and not require additional books and sources to make them good.
Fair point. I hadn't considered that by the time you get those particular perpetual elixirs you will have out leveled anything around the level of the elixir that would apply those conditions. That really sours me to this fix. Chirurgeon has gone from having 2 useless perpetual elixirs to a handful of almost always useless perpetual elixirs. More elixirs that don't do anything for my party isn't a solution.
https://paizo.com/pathfinder/faq Just click the "Pathfinfer Core Rulebook Errata (4th printing)" section. Nethys will be updated at some point as will other parteners.
Only from perpetual infusions. " If a creature heals Hit Points from a perpetual infusion, that creature is temporarily immune to healing Hit Points from subsequent perpetual infusions for 10 minutes" Having free potions essentially makes everyone capable of getting a downed character up to prevent them from dying, so even though it's only a 1d6 there is some use in that way. People can still benefit from elixirs made with quick alchemy and advanced Alchemy as normal. Healing from perpetual infusions only makes you immune to healing from another perpetual infusion for 10 min. An alchemist can stock folks up on perpetual infusions and they are basically a free healing elixir they can use every 10 min on top of any regular infused elixirs. Additionally, the chirugeon could make other elixirs that don't heal HP but that counteract status effects like Focus Cathartic or Sinew-Shock Serum which could be more useful to a group than extra healing. We are also likely to see a lot of other elixirs in the upcoming treasure book that has the healing tag which may be more tempting than an elixir of life. Considering the fact that before the only perpetual infusion the chirugeon could make was antidote (which lasts 6 hours so you wouldn't need to make them perpetually) or antiplague which lasts 24 hours, this rule change is a pretty massive boost.
If anything, clarifying that it is optional rule at the DM's discretion should have been enough.Semantics. It is not a variant rule. It is optional for any player to use it. A GM doesn't get a choice as to whether they use it or not, except by using rule zero to do whatever they want. Sometimes semantics are enough. Changing it from an optional rule to a variant rule would have been fine.
Clarifying how slow and haste works on minions is helpful, but it seems to indicate that summoned zombies do in fact only have 1 action. That seems like an unfortunate oversight and THAT specific instance could use further clarification if that is the intended effect.
Totally agree! I like this errata overall! It's a net gain. I'd love it if they walked this one part back, of course, so I wanted to express my feelings about it as the one change I didn't like, but it's a good sign when there's only one thing people are complaining about and it's the removal of a variant rule. :PI get your point. They have effectively removed voluntary flaws from the game. It is a small nerf and I rule I often used. But if this is the worst thing here I'm happy with the other changes. Which exceeds my expectations anyway. Just chiming in with my thoughts on changing how the optional Voluntary Flaws rule works. Though I didn't always use it, I often did. Currently playing an old woman witch that has 2 8's in physical stats but the bonus went to a mental stat. It makes sense for her since with age often comes wisdom and knowledge but also physical frailties. I've played with DM's that did not like voluntary flaws, so they didn't include it, and I've played with others that were fine with it. That's the point of something that's optional. Nerfing an optional rule seems asinine. If anything, clarifying that it is optional rule at the DM's discretion should have been enough.
I've been using my own variant for electric arc, Electric Arc (This version replaces the version presented in the book in All games I DM.) Cantrip 1
An arc of lightning hits one target and leaps to another. You deal electricity damage equal to 1d4 plus your spellcasting ability modifier to the primary target. Then choose a secondary target within 30 feet of your primary target. You do not need line of sight to the secondary target from your position, but you must know what square the secondary target is in and you must be able to draw line of sight and line of effect from the primary target to the secondary target. The secondary target takes half the damage of the primary target (basic reflex save) Heightened (+1) The damage increases by 1d4 to the primary target My players like this variation. It reduces electric arcs damage slightly but it adds a bit or range to it so you can affect secondary targets that are further away than 30 feet. It also feels a little more like what one might expect for an arc of lighting.
This is a very good deal considering how expensive official token packs are for other systems and on other Vtts. Still, $60 is a rather large price for a lot of people, so it might have been nice to see an alternative offering for this where it is split into three volumes so a person could purchase the volumes over time.
To clarify, as others have said, I just want the module. I'm happy to see a mark up on it so Paizo gets their piece. I don't want the bundle because I'll have no use for the PDF's. I'll only be running the module in Foundry and I'm happy to access the content via the journal entries there.
Your suggestions for alternative ways of doing things are good, but not really the point here. I'm not looking for alternatives, I'm looking for a better price point. I understand what goes into the pricing of these modules. They need to figure out how monetize These AP's for themselves and their subcontractor in a way that doesnt feel like I'm getting ripped off. I cant even begin to imagine how freaking expensive Kingmaker is going to be. Considering that Blood Lords for Foundry is around 20% more expensive than the Print version, the Roll20 version or the Fantasy Grounds version, if the the print version of Kingmaker is $100 and Kingmaker has the same basic mark up as Blood Lords we're looking at, what, $120? Paizo needs to get it's foundry pricing figured out or support the PDF importer so we can just go back to purchasing PDF's then importing them. The current foundry pricing model doesnt feel good.
Purchasing modules for APs on Foundry should not be the most expensive purchasing options. Pathfinder Adventure Path #182: Graveclaw is currently $36 to get the foundry version, $8 more expensive than the print edition, $7 more expensive than Fantasy Grounds and $11 more expensive than the pricing for Outlaws of Alkenstar. If this is the pricing we can expect for Foundry going forward I don't know that I can continue to do business with this company. Some things that might fix this issue: removing the requirement to purchase the PDF. Considering that the module on foundry comes with everything you need to run it, the PDF purchase is completely superfluous. Alternatively increasing the discount for purchasing the PDF and foundry code together so that it is at least not more expensive than any of the other purchasing options.
This is the most expensive version of this AP. Purchase of this AP should not require the PDF since the module is fully self contained. Please stop overcharging for Foundry modules.
Is this coming to Foundry VTT?
Had some back and fourth about Air Cartridge Firing System and whether or not it replaces your normal loading mechanism with magazines that use pellets. It doesn't explicitly state it does, but I also don't see any examples of air pellets being sold in any way other than in magazines but then again I also don't see any examples of magazines other than those specifically labeled as "Magazine (Air Repeater)". Any thoughts on this, or has Paizo written any clarification?
The Harrow Deck is mentioned in Dark Archive playtest, and I'm assuming it will be mentioned in the full release more than once. Currently, are there any plans to make the Harrow deck more accessible so we can use it in our games that use Dark Archive material? Digital download, or perhaps made available on Foundry as per your recent partnership?
I'm happy that Paizo is expanding its partnerships with VTT's outside of the much maligned (at least by me and my group) Roll20. I am concerned though that with a little more than a month to go, we have no pricing details.
Have to agree with most of the postings here about the Wiz or Druid as being the only available multiclass options for characters given as free archetypes. While I'm sure the story of the AP will lean very heavy into those classes, they being the best example of classes that learn their casting from others, Druid is very restrictive and perhaps should not be the only option available to Wizards. I can understand, of course, why a school, which has a function in teaching, wouldn't necessarily be a great fit for spell casters that are not taught their magic (Witches, Sorcerers), and also why a school that specializes in Arcane and Primal might not be a great fit for Divine and Occult casters (Cleric and Bard) as examples of multiclass options. The school would, presumably, have some kind of requirements of it's students to learn at least some of the types of magic it specializes in. On the other hand, it doesn't seem too difficult to say, perhaps, that there is a recent and new push to include Occult courses and thus make Bard an option for the free multiclass feats. Bards attending a school or university to learn magic is a staple in fantasy after all. I would love to hear a little bit about the design decision as to why those two multiclass options are the only ones available for the free archetype feats. Hopefully the AP will talk about that a little bit. Otherwise, this AP looks to be shaping up to be very interesting. I'm very enamored of Mwangi. Hopefully this will be only one of many AP's that take place there.
I suppose the line must be drawn somewhere, but I'm quite disappointed that this does not include the adventure path races. This would have been a great way to introduce players to some really cool races that they might not otherwise have ever seen, like the Raxilite or Selamid (playable ooze!) or Vilderaro. The omission of legacy races also seems odd since they were in the original book just like the core races, and have been referenced quite a bit in Starfinder materials indicating that they are an active part of the Pact Worlds. Hopefully we'll see something like a 'booster pack' that includes all the legacy races, AP races, and maybe some new races like those Bugbear we all wonder about.
And again, just because you don't like the answers doesn't make them wrong or "foolish". I have a response to that.... (But this post is just future proofing that response so I'll write it down later.)
Man people really will find any reason to get upset. To be clear, I wasn't upset by the missing content, I was just asking to see if I was missing something. I was frustrated by the responses to the post and I do not suffer foolishness gladly.
Never mind.
Never mind.
Where are the uncommon kobold snares mentioned in the feat Snare Setter? Is this coming in another book? In errata?
Never mind. |