Back in the day, when I heard that Starfinder 1e would be relatively quickly followed by PF2e, it became clear to me that Starfinder was the precursor for PF2e. It seemed that Paizo was trying some of the rules out before launching the new Pathfinder edition. At that point I stopped playing Starfinder, deciding that I’d rather just play Pathfinder 2e when it came out. And I haven’t played Starfinder since.
I didn’t want to learn an interim ruleset and then learn how the PF 2e rules were different. Admittedly, I also wanted a darker game than SF seemed to be. Now I am interested in what shared rules mean for the two games. Although I’m not going to run out and sign up for SF games, I am intrigued to see the overlaps, and if SF PCs will start showing up in organized Pathfinder Society play. Seeing some of the characters at work might convince me to give SF another shot.
What about you? Do you play one or the other of these games (or both)? Does the combined ruleset change your view about how you will interact with either the game, the two settings, or game play?
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I stopped playing SF1 not because PF2 was on the horizon, but because when PF2 launched the foibles of SF1 started to become unbearable. The design had so many ugly bumps that it was a chore to play in comparison.
SF1 and SF2 are going to be tonally very similar, so I don't think that's going to help you on the "darkness" front. That's really up to you and how you use the system anyway.
SF PCs are almost definitely NOT going to show up in PF Society.
That all being said, SF2 has got me so excited. We're already playing a SF2 game and the integration with PF2 content has been excellent. I plan on encouraging much more "cross-play" than Paizo intends baseline, and it's going to be awesome.
I'm really, really hyped to be able to mix and match.
I hope to get to play SF2, like pathfinder I never played the original.
I'm unsure about mixing the rule sets though. While basically the same, they do have different balance points. SF2 groups against PF2 melee focused enemies seems like it would be rough. Finder2e is easy to adjust for just about any group, but APs and such seem like they would be problematic trying to mix and match.
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The thing that interests me the most about SF2e is that its compatible with PF2e, so yes I'm planning to play it. The idea to bring high tech to a fantasy setting or to bring traditional fantasy elements to a sci-fi setting appeal to me because I like those kind of weird combinations. This also allows people to play more modern settings too, which is certainly something I'd put to use since I'm kinda burned out from DM'ing in Golarion at the moment.
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To be honest I didn't need any convincing to get into SF2e as I already love Starfinder in general. I'm less likely to really combine the two games' options on the player side (unless they get sent to Numeria, then cowabunga it is), but am absolutely looking forward to taking creatures from either game and using them in the other as desired.
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In late 2023 I was considering running a major Starfinder 1st Edition adventure. For practice I tried a mini-campaign with the Free RPG Day modules Skitter Shot, Skitter Crash, Skitter Home, and Skitter Warp. I did not require the players to play skittermanders like the modules provided. Instead, they had fun chosing exotic aliens as their characters, such Entu Colony and Kiirinta.
Skitter Shot went off well, but trouble started in Skitter Crash. After the crash in a mining vehicle used as an improvised lifeboat, they found the Monitoring Station and were extremely disappointed that they could not, no matter how much Computer and Engineering skills they applied, use it to contact the Helix Lyceum Research Station nearby. Instead, they had to walk. And fight monsters. Starfinder is science fantasy, but they wanted more science. They complained that Starfinder should have a stronger science-fiction style. I added a research project at the Helix Lyceum for them to participate in, and that made them happy. In Skitter Home I had to rewrite the adventure so that the local authorities were more involved. In Skitter Warp a disaster opened up the same planet from Skitter Crash to the plane of Hell, and the party would not rest after defeating the local demons. Nope, the players insisted on evacuating the Helix Lyceum to safety on another planet.
The Starfinder rules were fine. The Starfinder adventures were not to their taste. We went back to Pathfinder, where the fantasy is supposed to be only fantasy.
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I have been very excited about the compatibility of the two systems since SF2 was announced.
As far as blending the two systems together, I am more interested in having Starfinder as the base setting with individual characters or fringe worlds at the lower tech level of Pathfinder.
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I'm excited for Starfinder 2e, especially with rules compatibility. I've said before I'm excited to run a Chrono Trigger style time traveling campaign and it's great that the players can be from different times and still play together well. I'll have to reign in some things from the Starfinder end (early flight for example) but for the most part it makes it so easy to run this style of campaign.
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I have played SF1e, I even enjoyed it, but it was very much in spite of the system rather than because of it (I really really dislike the 3.5-style actions - too many to keep track of). As I'm much fonder of the PF2e-style three actions, my hope is that SF2e will be much more fun, as I won't have to spend half my time wrestling the system.
(unfortunately it doesn't look like I'll be able to convert my absolute favourite 1e character, Ketchiketchim the Skittermander Pokemon trainer, just yet...)
I bounced off of Starfinder 1e for two reasons. The first was that playing a sci-fi RPG whose mechanical roots were still ultimately D&D 3.5 felt rough when there's so many sci-fi RPGs that are more streamlined and for lack of a better term, feel more sci fi to me.
The second was that the lore didn't grab me. There's plenty of lore out there on the Pact Worlds and such, but I didn't find a planet that made me go "Oh I need to run a campaign in this place ASAP". The closest was probably the Dawn of Flame AP, because the concept of the Burning Archipelago and stars being home to fire elementals is a neat merger of traditional D&D concepts and sci-fi that I haven't seen done before.
I like the PF2 ruleset a lot, so I'm hopeful that Starfinder 2e using that chassis will allow me to get over these two hurdles. I don't plan on mix and matching the two though and would prefer Starfinder 2 stood on its own more to really lean into the sci-fi.
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I'm looking forward to playing both, with pretty minimal crossover. SF2 could use some extra ancestries for a while, but I'm mostly looking forward to the two systems not requiring much extra learning from GMs or players.
It will also be nice having updated rules. SF1 was fun, but it was really weird how they only ever released one player class, the Operative. There were plenty of NPC classes, like Soldier or Mechanic, but those just weren't the same.
I'm planning to play a SF2e when it would be released in my country (Brazil). I also plan to allow my players to use content from PF2e while this contented doesn't create narrative problems. I simply don't see why not allow specially magic classes from PF2e to work in SF2e game.
Depending on the adventure, I also may use some monsters and other contents from PF2e in my games.
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I'm really hoping we see a Numerian [something] that gives a good excuse to rope in some SF2 stuff.
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I'm really hoping we see a Numerian [something] that gives a good excuse to rope in some SF2 stuff.
Likewise! I’m trying to figure out how to bring some high level tech into my home game, but the Isle of Kortos doesn’t have any good options that fit within Golarion lore for that kind of crossover.
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Very much the opposite of the OP premise for me. I'm excited for SF2, but one of my biggest worries the whole time was a fear that too much emphasis on compatibility could interfere with it really being Starfinder. But I still have real hope that they'll dodge the bullet in the release.
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I generally don't care much for sci-fi and guns, but because I can repurpose SF2E for PF2E I'm willing to give it a shot and already picked up the Galaxy Guide. Worst cae scenario I fuzz the flavor to expand PF2E; I have a bunch of Ethereal-oriented ideas where crazy weird ancestries would fit in just fine.
I stopped playing SF1 not because PF2 was on the horizon, but because when PF2 launched the foibles of SF1 started to become unbearable. The design had so many ugly bumps that it was a chore to play in comparison.
Very much this. Like the number of irritation points when playing SF1 after the release of PF2 that involved realizing "well, PF2 fixes this problem by doing [thing]" was genuinely staggering.
I will buy the material, but I got so many AP's already planned to run in Pathfinder, that Starfinder would have to release some truly revolutionary AP's that I would be convinced to run them. I hope they will also release high level content now, which was very scarce in SF1E.
That being said, if a player wants to play a SF2 character in PF2, I think I'll be up for it, if we can compromise on access to equipment and the like. I'm very much looking forward to what the devs for Starfinder 2E have planned.
In case someone hasn't suggested it to you before, have you considered checking out Roll for Combat's Eldemon supplement? It comes with a trainer class and I wanna say forty-odd evolutionary families of critters.
The actual specific rules interaction for that character was Bombard Soldier's free grenade of their level, and the fact that there's a hybrid item that is a Grenade of Summon Monster. The fact that soldier's got more bonus feats so I could more easily fit a companion creature as well was just a bonus. I don't think the BattleZoo stuff would be a good fit (and most of the tables I'm at are a bit leery of 3rd-party stuff)
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A couple of comments, as a Starfinder subscriber:
1) The SF2 playtest seemed to be pretty decent at adapting the SF1 content to the PF2 game mechanics, with some rough spots. The SF2 vehicle rules (to include space-/star-ships) need to be determined and the "ranged meta" doesn't quite work as well as it did in SF1 (but that may be more on account of how restricted the playtest weapon list is); plus some of the playtest classes are a bit meh compared to PF2 classes in similar roles (solarian vs. kineticist for instance).
2) I believe Paizo has indicated that there will be a Numeria PF2/SF2 "crossover" adventure path at some point.
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plus some of the playtest classes are a bit meh compared to PF2 classes in similar roles (solarian vs. kineticist for instance).
I think this is kind of par for the course for playtest classes in this system. A lot of the PF2 classes have been significantly weaker in their playtest incarnations than their eventual release status was. Like the playtest kineticist had very little use for their KAS, and the playtest guardian was probably the worst class I've seen except for one incredibly overpowered feat that defined whole builds.
I guess it makes sense for the playtest version to be "underbaked" as it were.
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I don't know about that exact phrasing of causality, BUT we're stoked to combine the games-- I've set up my setting, people are running around toting ceramic magitech laser cannons, and earthenware tablets that can tether to larger Computational Spell Matrixes to access (much more local) infospheres and while some of the ancestries will still be from beyond the planet of our home setting, we're fantasyifying space and finding homes for many of them right alongside the pathfinder ancestries.
Mechanically I've already got a Soldier running around with a Plasma Cannon and a Jetpack who is super cool, but isn't really outcompeting the likes of our rogue and we're prepared to ad lib magical powers or other ranged attacks wherever necessary to compensate for the flight... which we've already delimited for Pathfinder Ancestries using the provided sidebar.
So long as they didn't mess up the core numbers after the playtest, we're golden.
No. I have other systems for sci-fi that do it better. We don't need character classes and d20s in space.What other Sci-fi game has anything as cool as Zo! or Strawberry Machine Cake?
Pretty sure RPG-Geek is talking about the system mechanics such as character classes and even using a d20, which some other sci-fi RPGs dispense with. As for “cool”, given the vast range of tonal preferences available to the possible player base I’d say the answer swings from “none” to “lots/all of them”. Starfinder’s insistence on replicating realworld tropes like TV/vid/net influencer-stars and musical supergroups are not to everyone’s tastes.
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If the rulesets weren't compatible I honestly don't think I would care about SF2e at all, I don't have the energy or mental capacity to learn a separate-if-similar set of rules, and I definitely couldn't get my group to.
Pretty sure RPG-Geek is talking about the system mechanics such as character classes and even using a d20, which some other sci-fi RPGs dispense with. As for “cool”, given the vast range of tonal preferences available to the possible player base I’d say the answer swings from “none” to “lots/all of them”. Starfinder’s insistence on replicating realworld tropes like TV/vid/net influencer-stars and musical supergroups are not to everyone’s tastes.No. I have other systems for sci-fi that do it better. We don't need character classes and d20s in space.What other Sci-fi game has anything as cool as Zo! or Strawberry Machine Cake?
This! If I wanted a space game, not sci-fi in general but space, I'd do Eclipse Phase. For sci-fi, I'd pick between heavily modified Cyberpunk 2020, Hard Wired Island, BattleTech (not sure which version just yet), Dark Heresy, Lancer, or even crib the setting from RIFTS, Traveller, or Spelljammer and use them with GURPS before I'd consider SF2.
Paizo's current themes and tones are a huge miss for me and part of why I'm less bullish on PF2 and SF2 than I could be.
Eh, Star Wars Saga also was a D20 20 level system and worked quite well, except how broken Jedi were at the low levels, if built correctly.
Eh, Star Wars Saga also was a D20 20 level system and worked quite well, except how broken Jedi were at the low levels, if built correctly.
Nah. It was closer to the joke that was D20 Modern than good game design. Give me the WEG stuff, with its whole host of issues, over that slop.
Eh, Star Wars Saga also was a D20 20 level system and worked quite well, except how broken Jedi were at the low levels, if built correctly.Nah. It was closer to the joke that was D20 Modern than good game design. Give me the WEG stuff, with its whole host of issues, over that slop.
Okay, then. <plonk>
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Pretty sure RPG-Geek is talking about the system mechanics such as character classes and even using a d20, which some other sci-fi RPGs dispense with. As for “cool”, given the vast range of tonal preferences available to the possible player base I’d say the answer swings from “none” to “lots/all of them”. Starfinder’s insistence on replicating realworld tropes like TV/vid/net influencer-stars and musical supergroups are not to everyone’s tastes.No. I have other systems for sci-fi that do it better. We don't need character classes and d20s in space.What other Sci-fi game has anything as cool as Zo! or Strawberry Machine Cake?
This! If I wanted a space game, not sci-fi in general but space, I'd do Eclipse Phase. For sci-fi, I'd pick between heavily modified Cyberpunk 2020, Hard Wired Island, BattleTech (not sure which version just yet), Dark Heresy, Lancer, or even crib the setting from RIFTS, Traveller, or Spelljammer and use them with GURPS before I'd consider SF2.
Paizo's current themes and tones are a huge miss for me and part of why I'm less bullish on PF2 and SF2 than I could be.
Have you ever played Starfinder2e or Pathfinder2e? That you would consider almost any other game before SF2e, and you don't like Paizo's current themes and tones, and SF2e isn't even out yet. I get the feeling this isn't really about the game system.
I also play multiple other game systems, including several on your list.
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I'll admit a lot of my interest in Starfinder 2e once its full core is out stems very heavily from compatibility with Pathfinder 2e. Being able to combine both for a more tech-advanced fantasy setting, while adding in a ton of new classes, is a lot more interesting to me than a bespoke standalone thing the way SF1e turned out to be. I have waaaaay more interest on playing an Envoy or Solarian in a version of Golarion (or homebrew) that evokes second era mistborn, or one of the settings from the likes of Final Fantasy or Tales of that's full of magitech, than I do in trying to deal with a setting specifically focused on space sci-fi.
I did, however, still really enjoy reading stuff about Starfinder's setting and some of its ideas back during SF1e, even if I did not at all like playing in it. Corpo Culture Drow might be the first time I could say I actually just liked any Drow lore, for example. Maybe with SF2e's full release, I'll be more inclined to give playing in that setting a chance.
Have you ever played Starfinder2e or Pathfinder2e? That you would consider almost any other game before SF2e, and you don't like Paizo's current themes and tones, and SF2e isn't even out yet. I get the feeling this isn't really about the game system.
I also play multiple other game systems, including several on your list.
I've GM'd PF2 and experienced it as a player. It's like a solid 7 for me. A bit bland for my tastes, but functional and you can run it and build characters for it with your eyes closed.
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Starfinder 1e hit the shelves at exactly the wrong time for me: I was still in my hard sci-fi purist phase ("Elves in space?! No thanks!"), and I'd just had an absolutely rotten experience with PF1. I gave it a hard pass until my success with PF2 (and a general broadening of my horizons) reignited my interest in it, and I gradually fell in love with the setting. However, the 3.5-derived engine was still a really hard sell, and my friends could handle either the nutty genre-bending or mechanical complexity, but not both.
Thus, Starfinder 2e is a perfect fit for my group: a setting and genre we've come to appreciate (minus one guy who's still a purist), running on an engine we (mostly) understand and enjoy. It probably won't replace every game at our table--like RPG_Geek said, it's basically D&D in space, and you have to be in the mood for both D&D and space to enjoy it--but I can see us getting a ton of mileage out of it, once it's been out for a while and players/GMs have enough options that they don't need to borrow from PF2.
Not that I'm against mixing SF2 and PF2 content or anything, I'd just like it to be a feature rather than a crutch.