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I was wondering if the Witchwarper feats Radiant Zone and Twisted Dark Zone, on pages 131 and 132 respectively, can be taken together and used on the same characters, like consecutively ? It doesn't explicitly say one way or the other and I'm a bit lost.

They both have the Zone trait. Early in the Witchwarper section, its almost kind of hidden away- "Zone: These actions apply an additional effect to your quantum field. You may apply the effects of a zone only to a quantum field that doesn’t have a zone effect"

It's easy to miss! I wish we could combine cool Zone feats to really customize our Quantum Field.

The way I see it is the original Pact Worlds Veskarium alliance was to fight the swarm. Now with the drift lanes connecting the Veskarium with the Azlanti Star Empire. Veskarium didn't want to give up Pulonis, but Pulonis joining the Pact Worlds, makes sure the Pact Worlds have a more direct reason to help defend the Veskarium. I'm sure not all in the Veskarium agree with this, but for now, it's the justification for Veskarium not having to fight 2 wars at the same time.

I think that's a really interesting and sensible explanation! The Azlanti and Swarm make for convenient "perpetually off-screen" antagonists, who are taking up the attention and firepower of the Vesk. They're a good thing to point fingers at for why they'd let Pulonis slip through their grasp.

I didn't think of the idea that Pulonis kind of becomes a child of divorce for the Veskarium and Pact Worlds, a connective tissue that keeps two people who otherwise hate each other acting civil with each other. That's a really interesting dynamic!

I think the idea of deployable Hazards is a great idea in small amounts. "The auto-turret makes a ranged strike at initiative 20 and 10 at the closest target" seems like a fun level of complexity in-between "single use grenade" and "summonabie monster".

Yeah, I don't really follow the logic of this post.

It may seem like it happened "off-screen", but a lot of 1e adventures and lore about Pahtras were very focused on this ongoing conflict. (Now granted, a lot of these adventures are about STOPPING Pahtra Liberation for some reason..)

And as for "gaining independence by the colonial power becoming more cultured and enlightened"....huh? That feels way more like the hand-wavey answer, honestly. The brutal colonial power that is only able to sustain its empire through constant expansion just ...decides to give up a colony?

It makes a lot more sense to me to say "after centuries of attrition and warfare on a hostile and technologically isolated planet, holding onto Pulonis becomes unpopular and unsustainable for the Vesk".
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Honestly, I think the Vesk/Skittermander/Pahtra dynamic is my favorite part of Starfinder lore. I'm new to the system with 2e, so I was surprised to read about them and fall in love so instantly. However, the more I read 1e content, the more I can tell the lore has been suffering because Vesk were a core ancestry and the Skittermander and Pahtra werent.

I DO agree that the Vesk wouldn't give up Pulonis so quickly. I've been playing the dynamic as less "Pulonis is now in the Pact Worlds!", and more as "Pulonis has declared independence, but has to deal with the blowback while it tries the unprecedented move of trying to join the Pact Worlds from another system".

This has had a variety of blowback effects throughout the Veskarium. It's emboldened the Skittermanders that are secretly guerilla resistance. Veskarium ego has been hurt by losing control of a planet, so there's a big backlash against Pahtra art in Vesk pop culture- especially because Vesk pop culture is basically just entirely worse version of Pahtra art. Pahtra pop stars like Miiyu have exploded in popularity, as their previous subtle anti-Veskarium messaging makes for angry and righteous dance beats.

I really enjoyed the parts of the video where he talked about the big picture of how guns feel and they change up the game. I feel like people have only been approaching the game as a PF2E supplement, and not the core pitch of "how entirely different is this game once you change all assumptions about its combat". I've always had trouble getting into PF2E, but something about Sf2E's combat and cover system clicks for me more. The books emphasize long ranges, verticality, hazards, and cover as defining combat, and the more I designed my encounters around those strengths the more fun I have.

I think his idea for making the power of the system be more gear-based than class-based is nice and intuitive. I agree that damage is VERY swingy at low levels, and it feels like classes are expected to pick up the slack for that. However, when players want to play SF2E and PF2E stuff together, I think i think it's a lot more intuitive to tell people "you can interchange classes as you like, but SF2E guns are much more powerful and you should only have them in a SF2E context". People are going to want to play with entire classes more than specific weapons.

I think he has a fair point that Bombard Soldiers get two features which feel so meaningful and impactful, that they should maybe be incorporated into the core class chassis. I have a hard time justifying picking things other than Bombard, and I dont even need to guess that it's Bombard + Stellar Cannon. I actually AM one of those people that felt like Soldiers were on the weaker side when it came to damage and accuracy, but then again...they should be, compared to Operatives and Solarians. (I'm starting to think that a lot of bad Soldier experiences are because It Came From The Vast has you fight enemies in a really tiny room with enemies resistant to common Soldier damage). I think the bombard ability to suppress on a failed save could easily become a core class feature to communicate to players "it's more important that you debuff than it is that your numbers are big".

Even tho they're really minor parts of the video, I was kinda shocked to hear him say that Mystics need their vitality network to be simpler and that Operatives need more flexibility in the action economy. I think those are already achieved, actually! The way his player described dumping the entirety of the vitality network at once was NOT my experience playing a Mystic, where I really enjoyed the raw flexibility of being able to heal EXACTLY as much as I needed to, compared to typical spellcasting. The fact that its just a raw number made it SO much easier to keep track of, especially for later feats that have Transfer Costs like "half the prevented damage" or "twice as much as you healed".

Similarly, I find that the Operative is actually the most flexible action economy class in the game. While the class immediately presents you with the core inflexibility of aim + fire, I think its' easy to miss that the rest of the class really leans into compressing the action economy to make up for it. This is also why the Operative is a great tutorial class- high flat damage, but it teaches you all about the effectiveness of action compression. At level 2, it's entirely possible to take 6 actions in one turn! (Reload + free Stride, Stride + free Aim, Strike + free Take Cover).

Overall, nice video tho!

I'd be super curious to see what the Evolutionist looks like in SF2E! I think your idea of staggered layers of short/medium/long term evolution abilities is really interesting.

I think the interesting question is- what does the Evolutionist bring to Starfinder 2e? I'm not familiar with SF1E, but I know they picked a "subclass" of evolution (eldritch, tech, organic, etc) and their powers got stronger by gathering "points" that increased by spending more rounds in combat.

I think the Solarian takes a lot of design space in the world of "the close range melee class with a customizable weapon in a game about ranged combat", so I don't think their adaptive strike would be the biggest emphasis. The basic core of "innate customizable strike with a variety of at-will unique powers" actually makes me think of the 2e Kineticist a lot, and I have a hard time saying no to the idea of more classes that are built like a Kineticist.

I feel as if it might be interesting to have a possible SF2E Evolutionist lean into the idea of evolution as being an adaptation to the environment, and have features that emphasize interaction with the environment. Long ranges, high verticality, and LOTS of fun hazards have made the SF2E playtest really fun- and I think it would be really interesting to interact with them! I think the fact that guns allow everyone to be pretty competent at combat while staying at a safe distance REALLY opens up the design space for class abilities that focus less on combat.

You could go simpler with it- "here's a feat that lets you turn your skin hard against a hazard as a reaction, granting a bonus to saves and AC", or "here's an adaptation that increases the range of your strikes, or just lets you straight up fly".

Or you could go more complicated- some kind of universal "Adapt" action that could grant you situational benefits? For instance, in combat it might be "make a Strike with a special bonus", but you might take the Ink Sack feat that says "when you adapt, you make the area around you difficult terrain if an enemy is adjacent to you". I think the ability to help your teammates adapt as well is an absolute must!

I have two Witchwarper characters in my upcoming game i'm running, so I will be very curious to see how they feel about the class! If either of them are unhappy about it, I just might point towards this homebrew as something to try out.

I absolutely LOVE the emphasis on Zone feats within your rewrite. I think if there's ANYTHING they could and should steal 1:1, it's that idea that Witchwarper is IMMEDIATELY presented with a candy shop of Zone options, given one for free, and is told you can get more if you eat your vegetables every day.

I think the thing I appreciate most about this very interesting idea is how you made the distinction between "this is what I think the problem is" and "this is ONE WAY I think highlights those issues and tries to solve it". A lot of playtest feedback can wrap up a genuine critique too much with their less ideal solution! I think you're entirely right with the core issue- the Quantum Field needs to be a fun part of the class that you can consistently use!

We've compared it to the Mystic a lot, but it can't be overstated how brilliant the Mystic is for giving you a single action that just WORKS. The Mystic's bond and transference abilities do for Mystics what ranged weapons do for Starfinder 2e as a whole. It's a useful, reliable option that is super customizable, yet has a really high floor of functionality. They both raise the baseline effectiveness of your class so much that you can afford to pick options you normally wouldn't in gameplay. The same way that classes in SF2E seem to have more non-combat options because everyone can fire a gun half competently, Mystics can afford to cast more strange and unique spells because of a high baseline reliable amount of healing.

I want the Quantum Field to feel like the same thing for Witchwarpers. Mystics and Witchwarpers are both clearly Paizo taking a megaphone and screaming at the audience: "Let there be no more confusion! This is not a system for blaster casters! Spellcasters are great support classes, for stuff like Healing and AoEs!". And indeed, they gave us basically the platonic ideals of healing and AoE spellcasters with these two classes!

So I really, really, just do not understand what the intent behind the current Quantum Field being both something that takes active effort to sustain, yet also often does not even provide a benefit. One of my players is an Analyst, and has expressed confusion at how often their quantum field will even come up in gameplay. The paradox spell is entirely reactive, asking you to keep your field up in case you MIGHT need it. And as a new player, they're having a hard time understanding that being able to make two recall knowledge checks at once or free recall knowledge on sustained spells is potent action compression. (By contrast, both of my operative players have expressed that the class teaches them the value of action compression very well, since the immediate aim+strike is very limiting but the class immediately offers you way to compress them. The operative is a wonderful tutorial class!)

I think the core idea of making the Quantum Field be the centerpoint of your spells makes it INCREDIBLY hard to ignore, and feel much more like a meaningful and impactful part of the game. I think I hesitations about the idea are the fact that it's SO different, that it takes it in a very different direction from the Mystic. I think there's a lot of merit to the idea of making the mystic and witchwarper both fit to that "spellcaster with a solid reliable tutorial action" mold, and maybe getting a lot more experimental with later casters in the system.

(Man yeah, these playtest forums are a bit less active than I expected. I suppose I could do more to reply to posts replying to me, but... if I am being honest, that seems to spiral very quickly into arguments on this forum, and I can't say i'm interested.)

From my experience so far, I've integrated the infosphere kind of as a halfway point.

When my player is in a fight, I'm assuming their recall knowledge checks are just the memories and experience they have on hand. Regular DCs, and I'm assuming they're not pulling out their phones in a fight.

Outside of fights, I'm assuming that Infospheres are included as part of Recall Knowledge checks. Anything that's just on a space-wikipedia page that the infosphere you're in would have is "common knowledge". Characters may not have it off the top of their heads, but I'm willing to say "yeah, after a quick search from AskSkitterJeeves, you remember that Akiton used to be the hub of spaceship construction" without having to specify they're checking the infosphere.

For more esoteric stuff, I'm also assuming that tackling the infosphere is part of researching. For instance, I cribbed a small part of A Cosmic Birthday, where raving cultists ramble about some Occultism lore stuff. I really liked that the adventure mentioned that "anyone who wants to dig deeper into any of these topics can attempt a Computers check to Access Infosphere or an Occultism check to Recall Knowledge". In the adventure, it represents either your proclivities for occult symbols and trivia, or your ability to navigate sketchy and esoteric "dark web" forums full of rumors and mystery.

I love this! I love love love the mental image of esoteric and strange forums being just as important as sage and magical libraries. I think the resonance to player experiences of the internet is an important part of SF2E.

I think the distribution of “oomf” is a big sticking point in Solarions. They're a VERY useful class, because from what I've seen in playtesting, they can absolutely churn out damage. However, it's kind of hard to tell that through reading! I think this has partially contributed to a feeling of disappointment towards Solarians from the online buzz I've seen.

While starfinder has a really great “wow factor” in making abilities clearly fun and useful, the Solarian feels like it back loads a lot of their really evocative and interesting abilities until later levels- and sometimes just spreads them unevenly across options.

I think the first attunement abilities you get are a GREAT example. Supernova and Black Hole are IMMACULATE - the “hookability” of getting to tell a player “you can drop a black hole or a supernova at level 1!” is amazing! They're unique, bold, and most of all- RELIABLE things your character can do.

Both abilities clearly communicate the play styles of their attunements- repositioning vs damage- which are invaluable in teaching players. Make their big fun abilities that leave an impression be the ones that do the job of educating players on the differences between their attuned states! It's like edutainment, or cheese on your broccoli.

But most of all…. These abilities are BIG, splashy, memorable, and fun!! Pathfinder 2e has increasingly over time doubled down on the idea of going “over the top” with flavor and aesthetics, but I think it has especially just been making things more appealing as a reader and as a player.

A lot of SF2E’s new skill feats and skill actions are a great example of this- you can actually read one and recognize “this is a fun trope or signifier that reminds me of things I like, and this feat lets me do that and make that my characters ”thing”.

The very piecemeal and granular approach of character creation can often make it hard to feel like players are making an interesting, character-influencing choice with each feat. But when i'm THE GUY WHO MAKES BLACK HOLES? That's lightning in a bottle excitement, and the team has done a great job at it.

And then you have…the balanced one. It's a double strike. You whack them twice. I didn't even bother remembering it's name, and neither did you I bet! (It's Binaric Assault, by the way)

I feel like there are some Solarian features that just... Really drop the ball in matching the same level of distinct, unique, cool abilities. You want to do a double-stride and leave a trail of light that lingers on the battlefield, but do you want to have a small shield that has a lot of technical conditionals? You get Solar Armor, but it has exactly one use without dedicating feats to it. And you can't customize it nearly enough to make it feel distinct and "yours" like you would with the solar weapon. You get a small ranged weapon that many have already spoken about being disappointed by before.

It's a bit odd how conservative so many of the early level Solarian features feel. If I had to guess, I would say they probably seemed strong in initial playtesting because of the flat damage boost, but also complex because of the cycle mechanic. Making it's early level options be more minor or functional is a reasonable response.

But even more so than mechanical strength, I think they need…well…more “oomf!”! I would love to be able to customize my solar shot or solar armor, as well. I'd love for Balanced Solarians to have a unique and flashy ability, and I'd love for some of the early level feats to be as consistently fulfilling that cool core class fantasy as their later level ones!

I have high hopes for the Solarian, but what do you think? Do you think it's better to tone down the flashy abilities of the Solarian at early levels? Do you think that its issues as a class are more mechanical than play experience?

Name pretty much says it all: Who here thinks the addition of 'last person you Aimed at' to Hair Trigger's requirement fixes it completely, and who thinks it still needs a bit of nerfing?

I think it's good that they balanced it with a reasonable downside that has interesting gameplay implications, instead of just a flat debuff. The new conditional is unique because it incentives you to not just aim at someone you want to attack THIS turn, but leading up to your next turn as well. I think that's a fun twist on the usual use of Aim, but still feels intuitive! I could absolutely imagine a round where you do the stride+aim, fire at a threat, then stride+aim back and refocus your aim at someone who you expect to be able to interrupt with Hair Trigger.

I've found that my operative player tended to get the most Hair Trigger attacks when NPCs first run up to them and try to close the gap. I think that's going to be the biggest situation where Hair Trigger no longer works.

What I find really unique about the change is that...it's no longer bound by the range increment rule, right? Like your Aim benefits only work within your first range increment, but the new Hair Trigger just says "the last creature you aimed at"- and nothing about Aim says that you can't just Aim at someone you can see from 100 feet away, right? (I'm no rules guru, so PLEASE correct me). That might be really interesting- the idea of there being an enemy much farther in the distance that you normally can't get Aim benefits against, but you CAN get a hair trigger shot on from across the map!

I wonder if Sniper builds might actually want to use Hair Trigger more now- it gets around unwieldy, you can threaten a HUGE chunk of the map with both Aim and Hair Trigger, and being able to interrupt move actions towards the rest of the party is huge. Just...don't think too hard about all those reload actions on the single shot rifles you're going to have to juggle, lol.

I don't really think you need to over-think the mechanics of the slow release grenade idea too much. Ideally, it would be a simple and low-level way to communicate to new players the advantages of positioning and zoning in combat.

Ideally, the main thing that would keep the opponent from going back to cover would be teamwork- your allies were waiting for the opponent to leave cover and have riddled them with bullets, restrained them, or even just moved into the spot themselves.

I think the ease of use for grenades and availability of different flavors is super fun. The damage dealing ones don't seem as fun or even as useful as the non-damage ones- my imagination really gets going with the smoke and flashbang grenades. However, I realize they're mostly just convenient ways to give a party access to damage types they normally don't have stocked.

I think the action economy is interesting around them, too. One action to do an area fire attack sounds too good to be true, but makes sense when you need an action to switch to them/swap hands. Grenade launchers on weapons are an easy way to shoot one per fight as one action, and reusable grenade shells are an easy way to save on grenade use. (I absolutely LOVE love love that reusable grenade shells are space footballs. It's such a little unessential bit of flavor that immediately inspires roleplay and character concepts).

I really, really want to push back against the idea that a quantum field should be an "optional" or "opt-in" part of the class.

If i'm being honest, I think everything wrong about the quantum field is that it's not being taken seriously enough as "the fun thing about playing a Witchwarper". It's your Get 'Em, your Aim, your Suppressing Fire, your Solar Weapon, your Mystic Bond.

The Quantum Field is signaled heavily as a fundamental, core class feature, a linchpin of the class fantasy and an ability of near equal importance to spellcasting. I can't speak for how it plays yet, but I can definitely say that it stands out in imparting information and expectations to players. When you read through the class, you see multiple traits and sections breaking down how your quantum field works, how you need it up to cast certain spells, and how to apply modifications to your zone. The anchors are presented with much less pomp and circumstance, and are all given situational abilities that reduce already existing problems. They are explicitly minor in comparison to your quantum field.

I think this is very strong! It's a very evocative image to not just be “guy influenced by otherworldly events”, but to bring those otherworldly events to people's front yards! It makes you wonder if you're the type of character who's actively opening this portal, or if you're haunted and chased by the this phenomenon happening to you…it's very solid roleplay material.

Additionally, the pitch of a “make a zone” class is very fun and enticing! Not only does it teach the player what the class is about, but it also taps into the same fun of classes with a highly customizable core mechanic- such as Summoners or even some Kineticists. Will I make my zone focus on debuffs like speed penalties, or make it a consistent damage zone? Will I make it a place that enemies can't go into, a place where I want enemies to go into, or a place that I want allies to go into? I think this customization is one of the big draws of the pf2e/sf2e system

This is all good, fun stuff! I feel like I can completely identify what they're TRYING to do, and what they WANT to do. I just honestly think that they need to double down on the idea that it's supposed to be not just EASIER to use, but actively FUN to use too! I want to shop for fun options for my Quantum Field the same way I shop for fun ways to customize an Eidolon. I want to be able to choose between my field helping allies, hurting enemies, or being bad for EVERYONE. I want to be able to reliably move my field, use it in combat, and keep enemies in it.

I don't want the power budget of my class to be in spellcasting, because I feel as if the playtest book made it VERY explicit what the draw and fantasy of the class is. I feel as if the Anomaly paradox's focus spell, "Warp Terrain", is the only class feature at Level 1 that really does what I expect and want from a Quantum Field. Radiant Zone, Danger Zone, and Twisted Dark Zone feel like slam-dunk home run class feats in how fun they are and how meaningful they make your quantum field feel.

While slightly off-topic, I really think heavy armor at level 1 is such a huge pain point. I dislike the play pattern of "I would build the exact same character very differently depending on if we start at Level 1 or Level 3, because it just is not feasible to get heavy armor at Level 1 for the two classes that might want it".

Whenever I try to build a Solarian or especially Soldier, it feels so awkward to realize that the stats that make sense for the medium armor you have to use at level 1 don't fit what makes sense for the class at level 3! (And it's even worse for poor Soldiers, who have so many feats and options available for Demoralizing that just feel soft locked until level 3....)

I agree with your overall point that "Guns in Starfinder both deserve and need to feel awesome", and "I would also be fine with a playtest that intentionally pulled out all the stops on guns and just focused on making them fun to play without worrying about them being too powerful"

I also agree that ammunition tracking is in a weird place right now, since you're hard pressed to find a weapon that you're realistically going to expend in a single fight. And man, hardness on enemies REALLY sucks in a ranged meta! I even like some of your ideas a lot- I think the idea of "enemies are more vulnerable on one side of cover than the other, so you wanna tactically position around them" is so genius!

However...I gotta be real man, i've actually had a great time with guns and SF2E's combat. I like it a lot.

Now keep in mind, I've played very little Pathfinder 2e, so maybe that's a big factor. I won't have the same expectations of a level 1 character doing X+Y damage per strike that many others might, which would contribute to feeling bad that starfinder guns do just X damage. (And I DO agree that the fact that not adding any ability to damage increases swinginess in combat, which can both feel bad and make combat harder to balance)

However, I tried to develop my SF2E combat encounters around what the book seemed to emphasize are important, and I have a great time! (I originally had a big write-up here about Range, Hazards, Verticality and Cover, but it started to feel too off-topic to the greater point of guns, haha)

This isn't really meant to shut you down, as much as offer a perspective that doesn't line up with what this forum seems to encounter with guns.

I don't expect Paizo to overhaul AoE guns or any other aspect of Starfinder mid-playtest, for sure. Way before the playtest, after Field Test #1 released and AoE weapons had already started to show their problems, I even hazarded the suggestion that AoE weapons be made undertuned and the Soldier be given mechanics to excel at them, Gunslinger-style as you mention. The issue I take specifically with this latest wave of changes is that even on the Soldier, AoE weapons still suck at AoE, and all of these kludges just give the class monstrous single-target damage, which I think defeats the purpose of those weapons entirely. Unlike the Gunslinger and firearms, the Soldier isn't meant to be the only user of AoE weapons, and the Envoy has a subclass that intends to synergize with them, so I don't think a Gunslinger-type approach to making the Soldier work with AoE weapons works terribly well with that in mind. As for unwieldy, I do think you could genuinely just take the mechanic out on guns that have it, like how the doshko was changed, and it would make no real difference on the builds meant to use them, even if it would make those weapons more accessible on others.

I only have one combat in "It Came From The Vast!" of experience with Soldiers, but I think that a possible reason for your frustration is that my experience seems to have lined up with the developers/the playtest feedback more than yours. IE, soldiers are NOT doing big single target damage! Actually, the basic enemies made reflex saves incredibly easily and my soldier felt a little ineffective- even as a Bombard soldier that could make them suppressed easier.

If I had to reckon a guess, I would say that a lot of people are playtesting with ICFTV as an official scenario, finding their soldiers having a similar experience, and that has impacted playtest feedback. I know you have quite a bit of hands-on class experience behind your stances, so please know this is not "this is why I think you're wrong" but "this is why I think Paizo isn't prioritizing what feels like logical and sound conclusions on your end".

Hi Everyone! I'm so fascinated by the newest change to how Primary Target works. If you haven't seen the recent update, it's now:

"Before resolving the area of effect attack, make a ranged Strike using your weapon against the selected target. Ignore the unwieldy trait on your weapon when using this action. If two or more creatures are equidistant or closest, you can choose which one is your primary target. If you successfully hit your primary target with this Strike and the target rolls a success against your Area Fire or Auto-Fire action, they get a failure instead. This Strike doesn’t count toward your multiple attack penalty.”

This is very interesting to me! Before this, Primary Target was mostly an Action Economy tool. Area Fire/Auto-Fire take two actions to do as a downside, in exchange for their many upsides (targeting a specific save, being able to damage multiple enemies, half damage on a save, etc). Soldier, as the class best at using AoEs, naturally had an ability that let them effectively get rid of the two-action downside and keep up with the number of attacks made per turn as their allies. In exchange for this, your additional damage had to come through as a single strike- which is a real downside, as accuracy isn't a soldier's strong suit! (Their whole CLASS is themed around not aiming, when you think about it...)

However, do you think this new ability has now redefined the purpose of a Primary Target? Now, it's not just an extra attack stapled on to keep up- it can single handedly turn someone's success into a failure, guaranteeing suppression and additional damage! That has a lot of mechanical implications. Enemies with an AC lower than their Reflex save are now much more vulnerable, since being able to hit AC means making the Reflex save harder. Soldiers might find themselves drawn to pumping their dexterity more, since your Primary Target shot has gone from "a fun rider" to "the straw that can break a camel's back". Soldiers can also get a lot more out of anything that reduces AC but NOT reflex saving throws, although i'll be honest i'm not sure if those exist? If anyone knows, please sound off!

However, I think that this makes the Bombard ability of suppressing enemies even on a saving throw be in an ...odd place. It's an ability that I feel like was already such a high quality-of-life upgrade that it maybe should be baked into the core class, but also is a huge fun part of the power budget of Bombard Soldiers. Now that we have the new Primary Target that DOES bake in the ability to tip the scales towards suppressing more enemies, where do you think that leaves the Bombard ability? Still too good, or more in line with the others?

Most importantly: that Bombard ability felt FUN, big, and impactful! If more enemies are failing the saves than ever, does that make it feel less splashy and fun?

Personally, even tho i'm poking around about unintended consequences, this change makes me want to skip and click my heels like a giddy schoolchild. I think this is SUCH a cool change to what's already my favorite class, and it REALLY drives in the idea that you're just absolutely trying to nail this guy in particular with your bullets and explosions! It also makes primary target feel much more like an important, distinct class feature that really interacts with the core class chassis and its gameplay loop. It's another one of those feel-good things about Starfinder 2e as a system- big, impactful, powerful abilities that are fun and simple to use feel great!

But I don't want to just do a manifesto on what I think- I'm really curious to hear everyone's first impressions, as well as what we all find from playtesting the new changes! Happy Starfinding, everyone!

The Double Draw to Twin Draw change is a great highlight of one of SF2E's strengths. Double Draw was an awkwardly worded feat that was a straight mechanical upgrade, but mostly seemed like an unexciting feat needed to do something mundane. Twin Draw is simpler and easier to read, but manages to fulfill a clear fantasy while offering very enticing and useful action compression. I actually WANT to take this feat now!

I feel as if the best parts of SF2E are a lot less like Double Draw, and a lot more like Twin Draw. There feels like an active effort to make the feats feel more simple, powerful, and like they're actively fulfilling a class fantasy- and I hope that continues as the playtest continues!

I feel grenades would work a lot better if the ones that dealt damage had a delay of 1 round, in exchange for much more damage. Instant bombs should be fine too, but the advantage to a delayed grenade is that it'd be a great tool for flushing enemies out of cover, which I think right now is fairly important given how easy it is for enemies to hide behind it all the time. If the enemy doesn't move, or is made to stay for some reason, then the much higher damage ought to frag them for sure, if they're chaff.

I actually gave this weapon a try during a playtest, and I was really pleased with the results. It was really fun and tactical to have one vesk soldier ready their gun around the corner, and have the other vesk soldier toss the delay grenade (goes off at beginning of user's next turn, 2d8 instead of 1d8 damage) to flush out the PC. It was a fun mental challenge of "do I think it's better to make a basic reflex save against 2d8 or just hope the strike against my AC misses".

I think these are the exact right kind of fun micro-challenges and hazards in a game like SF2E. I hope a weapon like this makes it into the final release.

Even if we don't get planetary range, line of sight feels very restrictive. Like, if you think about "what could you use a psychic group chat for in day-to-day life?", it's things like, "Well, you could talk to people across the house/ship/whatever without getting up", "You could stay in touch with the team while everybody goes shopping at different places", "You could discuss where to go for lunch with the group", etc.

Pretty much anything I picture a "psychic group chat" being used for don't work if you have to get everybody together able to see one another for them. You need people telephoning messages from person to person to talk around corners.

Give it a little more than "talk in front of somebody without them knowing". I want to feel magical.

I think you're extremely right, and thank you for approaching it from the angle of "what fantasy is this trying to fulfill, and is it achieving that?". I think that's a much more nuanced and honest way of approaching this playtest- especially with how much the book tries to signal to specific audiences!

A lot of the best stuff in SF2E is in how it signals "this is what's fun about this ability, this is the character archetype or trope we're invoking and that you might want your character to do". I think you're entirely right that the current form of group chat doesn't have a lot of the fun fantasy of being "the emotional glue of the team who makes scenes about the teams emotional and psychic bond"

"Your vitality network regains an amount of Hit Points equal to double your level plus your Wisdom modifier when you use the Refocus action".

So if you empty your pool of HP at the end of combat, a level 1 mystic is only going to gain roughly 6 life to their vitality network from refocusing.

Yeah, I don't really understand the point. It feels as if it makes the core class feature less essential and more like Rage for no real gain.

I'm actually combining these two ideas soon! I couldn't get over the mental image of two barathu that come together to study both sides of being a Solarian, OR the association of a Solarian's space-magic weapon with the magical girl association. So....why not make a Solarian Starlit Sentinel? Magically gene edit yourself to do a magical girl transformation!

...O.K. that's a little off topic. But yeah, I think I would much rather prefer a "sword-beam" style effect for giving a short-ranged option for Solarians. And I don't even want to talk about the mechanics behind it, cause I think the most fun part of Starfinder 2e is how it really distinctively sells you on the audience and fantasy each class is designed for.

So much of the flavor and excitement of the class is built into the idea of a "cool, customizable, personal weapon"! While the obvious comparison is Lightsabers and the flashy moves of Jedi, I think Starfinder 2e's over the top and anime-inspired designs call to mind Keyblade wielders and their floaty, acrobatic, anime-magic fighting as well.

I think it kind of centers the fun of the class on that concept if even your ranged options play into that fantasy. Even if you can't hit someone in melee as THE melee class of this edition, you're still doing this with your special melee weapon.

I agree that I would really like more clarification for how Barathu, and any other flying ancestry, are supposed to interact with Stride-specific interactions that classes like the Operative and Solarian have.

I just want to say, I love this thread and I loved reading about Mr Sir! You really captured what's great about the Envoy's design- it's probably the most generally applicable class in the game to just about any concept that relies on some combination of wits, charm, and a lucky shot.

I hope he gets to see the Wheel Of Monsters adventure coming out soon!

I feel like it all comes down to game design, right? Like the intent is not to simulate automatic fire as we know it in the real world, but to use automatic fire to flavor the mechanical design space of a repeatable martial AOE attack.

The ubiquity of explosives, rapid-fire weaponry, and other ways to deal damage to a large area is very unique to Starfinder- both thematically, and mechanically! So it makes sense that when designing a new edition, the priority would be to explore this design space that wasn't used much by martial classes in Pathfinder.

Hi there, i'm new to posting on the Paizo forms. If i'm being honest, it sounds like you've made up your mind and that you want to defend your point more than try to understand why a choice was made. What can other people contribute to this?