Player Core Preview: The Wizard, Remastered

Excited about this!
Can't wait for thursday.

This sounds great! I was previously a little nervous when I heard the schools were going away as they’re pretty iconic. Just as the case with the removal of alignment: change is scary and uncomfortable. That said, I’m digging all of these changes and so excited to try them out. Keep knocking it outta the park!

PS: I support your pickling spell domain.

D&D 2e's alternate schools systems was one of the neatest things done. It was also dabbled in D&D 3rd edition. I'm surprised Paizo never did for Pathfinder. Tossing out the "Traditional 8" didn't need to be done to explore alternate schools/categorizations of magic.

It's nice to see you exploring it finally though.

haha, my Flame Druid in Strength of Thousands is a fire marshal, School of Civic Wizardry sounds perfect for her!

I’m a bit confused by the feat. It sounds like it’s meant as battlefield control. I don’t see it ever doing damage because taking a minimum of 7d6 to your allies so that the creatures stay in the area seems like mutually assured destruction. Doing this at range with no allies guarantees that the bad guys move. I’m guessing the intent here is to have it make bad guys use an action. Seems awful high level of a feat for this though.

Can't wait for the Magaambyan School of Magic!

I am loving the Remastered Wizard.
The Academic theme and Curriculum Spells I highly appreciate this design.

High Grade Marks!

Let James write Goblin School of Pickling Spells!!! <3

I’m a bit confused by the feat. It sounds like it’s meant as battlefield control. I don’t see it ever doing damage because taking a minimum of 7d6 to your allies so that the creatures stay in the area seems like mutually assured destruction. Doing this at range with no allies guarantees that the bad guys move. I’m guessing the intent here is to have it make bad guys use an action. Seems awful high level of a feat for this though.

It seems fine to me. You could position it such that an enemy would have to decide whether to eat the secondary detonation, stride and take a reactive strike, or step twice to evade both at the cost of most of their turn. You could use it to set up a Shove from one of your allies and guarantee the damage. You could simply box the enemy into a tight area where they can't escape - which you could have created with Wall of Stone beforehand. Plenty of cool ways to use it, IMO.

I like the burst feat! Anything that encourages and enables allies to Shove and Grapple is tons of fun.

I definitely thought this preview post would be bigger and more detailed but now that my expectations are in-line, I'm looking forward to the rest of them.

Wow, wizard has always been my favorite caster, and it really looks good without the 8 legacy schools

Love this! Can't wait to dig into the Remaster! My first of 53 PFS characters is a Universalist Wizard 11. It'll be fun to see how the changes affect him. Thanks for the update!

Thanks for this. I'm really interested to see how this interacts with the Runelords and sin/thassilonian magic.

I wonder what's going to happen to Runelord with this change

I really love the vibe of that feat. Repurposing spell energy into creating temporary constructs in the like feels very wizard to me.

Also hyped all over again for the new schools!

The heavy leaning into the academics of the class was already a big appeal to me, so the shift to curriculums was a huge flavor win for me.

One thing I do have to wonder though: if there going to be one that's focused on illusions? I'm currently playing a wizard that follows Sivanah, and while the mentalism curriculum fits the trickster bit, it's got a lot of "hurt people with hallucinations" spells which are direct anathema. My group is generally willing to allow homebrew in terms of substituting spells, but I'd like one that doesn't need such an extensive overhaul (I think like 5 spells fall under anathema). I'm also a little shocked that suggestion and charm didn't make it onto the list!

The heavy leaning into the academics of the class was already a big appeal to me, so the shift to curriculums was a huge flavor win for me.

One thing I do have to wonder though: if there going to be one that's focused on illusions? I'm currently playing a wizard that follows Sivanah, and while the mentalism curriculum fits the trickster bit, it's got a lot of "hurt people with hallucinations" spells which are direct anathema. My group is generally willing to allow homebrew in terms of substituting spells, but I'd like one that doesn't need such an extensive overhaul (I think like 5 spells fall under anathema). I'm also a little shocked that suggestion and charm didn't make it onto the list!

If you look at the school description, it is about "befuddling lesser minds with figments and illusions or implanted sensations and memories." Charm and suggestion are not really figments or illusion or implanted memories, they are more direct control spells.

Also I think this might be the easiest area to homebrew. As long as you can give your GM a good reason why this list of spells should be a curriculum, you can run wild.

D&D 2e's alternate schools systems was one of the neatest things done. It was also dabbled in D&D 3rd edition. I'm surprised Paizo never did for Pathfinder. Tossing out the "Traditional 8" didn't need to be done to explore alternate schools/categorizations of magic.

It's nice to see you exploring it finally though.

Tossing the 8 is not done to explore new schools, it's done because those 8 schools are Wizards of the Coast intellectual property and moving to ORC involves excising all WotC terms.

Small look into the civic curriculum and an ok-ish spellshape feat that seems to come a bit late for its effect. The rest is old news (at least for those of us who devour all remaster news and info).

I'd lie if I said I'm not a bit underwhelmed by this blog. I appreciate you taking the time, mind you. I was just hoping against hope that there's more in store for the wizard. Something that makes it stand out more mechanically. The new schools are great flavor, but still a mechanical downgrade.

As always, I'll reserve final judgment until I see the whole class remastered. But it definitely feels like the wizard is left in the dust compared to other classes.

Can't wait for the Magaambyan School of Magic!

I came in to say exactly the same thing.

Needless to say, the HYPE is real.

Definitely looking forward to Thursday's blog about the changes to spellcasting! One of the biggest things I've wondered is how vocalizations with spells will work, and how some spells (like Silence and spells that deafen casters) will end up looking like!

Ohh, looking forward to Thursday's blog!

Thanks for this. I'm really interested to see how this interacts with the Runelords and sin/thassilonian magic.

It won’t for sometime I believe.

There won’t be a “Day 1” option to play the Runelord in-line with the Remaster Wizard. It will come in time, but in a later book. The guidance given was to play with the core Wizard for the base of the Runelord, with you and your GM making decisions on any new spells which you want school-Ified.

Praying that Wizards get some actual knowledge mechanics in the Remaster.

I know they are getting Knowledge is Power at 8th, which, I hope they have brought more inline with Bestiary Scholar. If not, having something to actually assist or reward Recall Knowledge is really needed.

Something solid to make up for the more limited scope that seems to come with the slot changes.

MrVauxs wrote:

Can't wait for the Magaambyan School of Magic!

I came in to say exactly the same thing.

Also, is just just a Magaambyam School, or (being the best magic school on the planet) do the Rain-Scribes have their own school that is fundamentally different from the Tempest-Sun Mages that is different from the Uzunjati, etc.

Needless to say, the HYPE is real.

They have an archetype, actually!

https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=29

That feat is not good. Spend an action to add damage a round later that will never hit.

This is interesting.

The burst feat feels like a telegraphed AOE that pleases my MMO-playing lizard brain

If you work with your team the blast can certainly hit and denying space can be just as crucial in more complex battles. Is it an always use feature? No but no apellsgape feat ever is.

The floor on Secondary Detonation Array is a 1:1 trade on actions as the enemy is forced to stride away, which itself opens it up to getting hit by reactions. Not bad but not sure I'd call it 14th level good. You can of course combo it with spells that grab creatures like Transmute Rock and Mud.

Edit: Never mind, spell needs to do damage. My searching seems to indicate there are no spells in the game right now that actually work with this spellshape, all other options for grabbing with a spell have a duration. That's unfortunate.

The feat is quite good. Everyone has been asking for ways martials can better support casters instead of the other way around, and letting your team manhandle enemies into a bonus damage zone is pretty fun. It's also perfectly effective against mindless enemies.

Very much lines up with how my magic schools have been in my 5e and Pathfinder 2e campaigns, anyway. This makes official that who you hang around with and learn from is far more important than a legacy label, as far as describing how a spell interacts with the world.

"Goblin school! Goblin school! Writing for fool! Songs are cool!"

Seriously, a non-Bard school where Wizards cast their spells by singing them into existence would be freaking awesome.

Feel like Goblins would definitely have a school to teach aspiring wizards to set the long shanks on fire...

That being said, unsure if there are plans for new sets of spell cards, but I would definitely pick them up if they do, or if we get a guide on how to re organize the cards we have? This would also be greatly appreciated :D

Did they ever clarify if your "next action" can be the first action of the following round, or if it has to be in the same round?

The feat is good but the level is too high. Could have easily been a 6 or a 8.

Also the wording... I get the desire to convey academic writing but I shudder to think how many players will stop reading right after the words "force damage". Why not just say it deals damage of the same type as the spell?

The idea of in-world magic schools is great, but the limitation of one specific bonus spell per rank is not. There should have been two-three per rank to choose from, with feats to get more.

The feat is good but the level is too high. Could have easily been a 6 or a 8.

Also the wording... I get the desire to convey academic writing but I shudder to think how many players will stop reading right after the words "force damage". Why not just say it deals damage of the same type as the spell?

The idea of in-world magic schools is great, but the limitation of one specific bonus spell per level is not. There should have been two-three per level to choose from, with feats to get more.

Based on the prerelease doc, theres at least 2 spells per rank, and apparently theres going to be more than that in the final release.

Secondary Detonation Array isn´t bad I think. It´s a blaster caster feat that rewards spell selection, knowledge about the opponent and tactical teamwork.

If you have this feat you want area spells of many different elements. If you then fight an enemy that has a weakness (which you know because you are a smart wizard) you cast an area spell that triggers that weakness. Then you let your party´s brawler (who maybe delayed to be after you) run up next to that enemy and maybe grapple or trip them. That enemy now spends 1 or more actions Stepping/Standing/Escaping or eats an AoO or takes damage that triggers its weakness again.

So yeah...

CyberMephit wrote:

The idea of in-world magic schools is great, but the limitation of one specific bonus spell per level is not. There should have been two-three per level to choose from, with feats to get more.

Based on the prerelease doc, theres at least 2 spells per rank, and apparently theres going to be more than that in the final release.

We saw the preview pages of the book during a live stream.

Each school has a varied number of spell options per level, starting at 3, sitting mostly at 2, then ending at 1, for a total of about 18 non-cantrip spells.

You and your GM can agree to add more spells to the school if you like.

Did they ever clarify if your "next action" can be the first action of the following round, or if it has to be in the same round?

They did. It has to be the same round. Source is the How It's Played YouTube channel and one of their Ask a Designer videos.

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Anyone else note that the new spell doesn't say the spell has to come from a spellslot? If you find a cantrip that fulfills all requirements, you could use it to lay down the detonation array. It's probably save to assume the 5ft burst has to fit within the spell's area (even though the feat could be clearer about that), so the only current cantrips that would work are haunting hymn and spout (when used on water).

One of the most commonly requested expansions for any class is additional major paths to build your characters along, but because the wizard schools already had all eight schools of magic that could ever exist in the setting (plus universalist), we could never increase the number of wizard schools or explore more interesting options beyond those preset themes.

I don't understand this. The existence of the eight schools of magic (and the arcane schools corresponding to those) wasn't preventing anyone from creating new arcane schools.

Evoker wizards and Battle Magic wizards can and will coexist, since pre-remaster content will still be selectable once the remaster comes out. Why couldn't the School of Civic Wizardry exist before the "traditional" eight arcane schools became out-of-print?

Quote:

One of the most commonly requested expansions for any class is additional major paths to build your characters along, but because the wizard schools already had all eight schools of magic that could ever exist in the setting (plus universalist), we could never increase the number of wizard schools or explore more interesting options beyond those preset themes.

I don't understand this. The existence of the eight schools of magic (and the arcane schools corresponding to those) wasn't preventing anyone from creating new arcane schools.

Evoker wizards and Battle Magic wizards can and will coexist, since pre-remaster content will still be selectable once the remaster comes out. Why couldn't the School of Civic Wizardry exist before the "traditional" eight arcane schools became out-of-print?

It's not necessarily the idea of an Evoker and a Battle magic wizard couldn't exist, it was the way in which schools of magic functioned.

1) have a huge amount of spells added just to support it so that it could feel relatively balanced compared to the older schools.

2) have a much smaller pool of spells

3) be radically different than the other subclasses.

Since they were removing the schools partially for ogl reasons anyways this also let them create the new schools.

Poit wrote:

Quote:

One of the most commonly requested expansions for any class is additional major paths to build your characters along, but because the wizard schools already had all eight schools of magic that could ever exist in the setting (plus universalist), we could never increase the number of wizard schools or explore more interesting options beyond those preset themes.

I don't understand this. The existence of the eight schools of magic (and the arcane schools corresponding to those) wasn't preventing anyone from creating new arcane schools.

Evoker wizards and Battle Magic wizards can and will coexist, since pre-remaster content will still be selectable once the remaster comes out. Why couldn't the School of Civic Wizardry exist before the "traditional" eight arcane schools became out-of-print?

It's not necessarily the idea of an Evoker and a Battle magic wizard couldn't exist, it was the way in which schools of magic functioned.

Since Schools of Magic as written pre re-master were not only sub-classes but a way of categorizing every single type of spell in the game any future School would have to do 1 of 3 things.

1) have a huge amount of spells added just to support it so that it could feel relatively balanced compared to the older schools.

2) have a much smaller pool of spells

3) be radically different than the other subclasses.

Since they were removing the schools partially for ogl reasons anyways this also let them create the new schools.

Sub-schools were already a thing. Like a cojurer could focus on Teleportation, Extradimension, Creation, or Cheliax: Egorian Academy Infernal Binder. All of which could be differentiated by their focus spells and feats.

I seriously don't get where the idea that more schools could not be added came from.

Can we get a preview of the Magaambya's Wizard school?

It probably doesn't exist to preview.

emky wrote:

D&D 2e's alternate schools systems was one of the neatest things done. It was also dabbled in D&D 3rd edition. I'm surprised Paizo never did for Pathfinder. Tossing out the "Traditional 8" didn't need to be done to explore alternate schools/categorizations of magic.

It's nice to see you exploring it finally though.

Tossing the 8 is not done to explore new schools, it's done because those 8 schools are Wizards of the Coast intellectual property and moving to ORC involves excising all WotC terms.

Why can't it be both?

Kelseus wrote:

emky wrote:

D&D 2e's alternate schools systems was one of the neatest things done. It was also dabbled in D&D 3rd edition. I'm surprised Paizo never did for Pathfinder. Tossing out the "Traditional 8" didn't need to be done to explore alternate schools/categorizations of magic.

It's nice to see you exploring it finally though.

Tossing the 8 is not done to explore new schools, it's done because those 8 schools are Wizards of the Coast intellectual property and moving to ORC involves excising all WotC terms.

Why can't it be both?

Because they cannot exist in the system if they want to not be on the OGL.

This makes me look all the more forward to the deeper dive into the remaster's changes to magic. Changing the wizard's schools to actual schools of magic with clear themes I think is a brilliant change, which will hopefully go a long way towards making what is arguably one of the more generalist classes in the game feel more like a specialist. Any kind of big-brain play feat gets my vote as well for the wizard, particularly if it's something allies can combo into.

Perpdepog wrote:

Kelseus wrote:

emky wrote:

D&D 2e's alternate schools systems was one of the neatest things done. It was also dabbled in D&D 3rd edition. I'm surprised Paizo never did for Pathfinder. Tossing out the "Traditional 8" didn't need to be done to explore alternate schools/categorizations of magic.

It's nice to see you exploring it finally though.

Tossing the 8 is not done to explore new schools, it's done because those 8 schools are Wizards of the Coast intellectual property and moving to ORC involves excising all WotC terms.

Why can't it be both?

Because they cannot exist in the system if they want to not be on the OGL.

I meant why can't both reasons be true? Yes, the OGL changes had to be done, but the devs have indicated multiple times that the shifts they are making to the game aren't solely because of OGL issues; needing to prune legally problematic content from your game and wanting to innovate and breathe life into a classic class aren't mutually exclusive motivations.