Alurad Sorizan

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber. Organized Play Member. 9,108 posts (9,110 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 3 Organized Play characters. 1 alias.


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Looks awesome! I do hope we get better options to extend the range of the champion's reaction for those high levels where rune giants and the loke become more common (and 15 feet doesn't cut it anymore) than we had in the pre-remastered version.


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Many of the maps in the interactive maps file seem to be strangely undersized, i.e. Sent Below, Encroaching Blight, Thornbaker's Yard, Flourishing Wood, Withered Morass and Blighted Borderlands are very small sized single page maps.


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Since you are pointing out how good Athletics is for Warpriests, you might mention shield augmentations in your shield section of the guide, so that Warpriests can use some of the maneuvers without a free hand.


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Elfteiroh wrote:
Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:
Do we have any idea when the July subscriptions will have orders generated?
Ed Reppert wrote:
There has been no announced change to the shipping window, which starts tomorrow. If you're talking about the authorization run, they've reported problems with that which as far as I know have not yet been resolved, so you may not yet have seen an authorization email. I do not know if Paizo's system would allow shipping to start if the authorization run has not been completed, though IMO it should.

To Ed: Terevalis said July, and considering they are posting on the Player Core 2 product page, I assume it is not a typo. :P

To Terevalis: The real answer is that we don't know when they will start authorization, as the thread haven't been created.

BUT. Last years it was on July 13th for a street day of August 3rd, the year before it was on July 8th for a street date of July 27th...
Based on these precedents, I would expect it to start around July 11th for a street date of August 1st. But there's no guarantee that this is correct. Just a guess on my part.

In any case, the wait will be excruciating this time around. I've been looking forward to this book for half a year now. Really interested to see what they've done with the Champion and Swashbuckler.


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Okay, why is it that PF2E guides all seem to be 200+ pages long? That wasn't normal during 1E and that was arguably the more complicated game.

Anyway, good work as always, Tarondor, at first glance. :)


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Oh, wow, the Echo Receptors implant is stupidly powerful. I see zero reason to not get this 100% on every character. Echolocation was for a good reason one of the most powerful spells in 1E and to get this for a reasonable price permanently on a character, and even without any outward stuff like bat ears or the like (at least from the lack of any such description in the ability text), is pretty damn good.

Grafts are pretty much bioware from Shadowrun. Very cool concept.


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Errenor wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
Wolfswift wrote:
Yeah, I decided to ask in the Pathfinder discord and got a quick answer. The traits don't cover it, but evidently the rules for Casting a Spell mention all spells basically now require you to shout and gesticulate, so they basically all have verbal and somatic components now unless they're subtle... but material and focus components are really just gone. But binding and gagging a spellcaster does still stop their casting.
RAW no verbal components are necessary anymore. If they were necessary, that should have been written into the rules.

I'm not sure what you mean, but this is written into the rules:

"Casting a spell requires the caster to make gestures and utter incantations, so being unable to speak prevents spellcasting for most casters. "
So, yes, 'verbal component' doesn't exist now. Also yes, you must speak in a loud voice for all non-subtle spells and can't cast them if you don't.

Well, I guess I'm completely wrong there, then. Sorry, I should have actually checked the relevant rule rather than working from memory. Dang.


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Wolfswift wrote:
Yeah, I decided to ask in the Pathfinder discord and got a quick answer. The traits don't cover it, but evidently the rules for Casting a Spell mention all spells basically now require you to shout and gesticulate, so they basically all have verbal and somatic components now unless they're subtle... but material and focus components are really just gone. But binding and gagging a spellcaster does still stop their casting.

RAW no verbal components are necessary anymore. If they were necessary, that should have been written into the rules.


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TriOmegaZero wrote:
I think if I had started with 2E, I would love it. As it is, I have been immersed in d20 3.5/PF for so long that switching takes a lot of effort, spending time I don't really have like I used to.

I think it's worth the effort. I was for three or four years an ardent defender of 1E over 2E, because I felt that the nerfs were too much to casters and that rarity gave a bit too much power to GM's to gatekeep players from choosing powerful options.

But in the end, while 1E gives a wonderful power trip to players at higher levels, it is really hard to GM and even after a decade of playing the game, my players came up with new ways to break the game I couldn't build against. The base chassis of 1E is just too broken mathematically to put right after about level eleven.

Hence, my decision to switch to 2E. Luckily my players in at least one group are going along with it and so, after we finish up the current AP (Strange Aeons), we'll start with a 2E conversion of Return of the Runelords. Since that will still be a good time away, we are also starting up a Abomination Vaults bi-weekly online group over Roll20 in November.

The prep work for both AP's has been very fun so far, we'll see if the system really is as balanced as everybody says. :)


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Ed Reppert wrote:
Sounds like they would be a Champion whose Cause is Justice, so "Champion of Justice" would be the name.

<Shirou Emiya perks up>


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Still waiting for Return of the Return of the Runelords. ^^


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Jonathan Morgantini wrote:
I really need to pick the game up again. Its so much fun.

I'm waiting out the last DLC, which drops in a few days, then another patch cycle to iron out the new bugs it introduces, then it's time for that Angel run I've been holding off on. :)


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This isn't another "I made this situation up to have a spirited discussion break out on the forum" situation, right RD? ^^


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I plan to give out two hero points for everyone at the start of the session, so that the players are incentivized to at least use one before hoarding their last one in case of imminent character death, and then give out more on a basis of "did that character do something cool", not on a strict timer.


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James Jacobs wrote:

While we have no 1–20 Adventure Paths announced and none planned for next year, I do have some story ideas that WOULD work better as a 1-20 campaign, or at the very least as a 1–10 and 11–20 two parter. If and when we get to those stories we'll for sure let folks know.

I HAVE already leaked that there's going to be a very good choice for folks to play after Seven Dooms for Sanpdoint at some point, so if you play that one, save those PCs for later. We haven't announced more about that yet though.

And also going forward I'm trying harder to build in narrative links with the high level Adventure Paths... either built in to the story (as in the upcoming Curtain Call, which serves great as a continuation for ANY 1st to 10th campaign), or supported in the Player's Guide.

I do hear that some folks want more 1st to 20th campaigns, and I hope we can do some again. They're not FOREVER off the table, but the reality is that it's healthier for Paizo for us to do four 3 part Adventure Paths a year than it is two 6 part ones. In the meantime, building a healthier and more balanced offering of low and high level ones with better guidance for linking them is my goal.

All very encouraging. Onward and forward! :)


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Finoan wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
A bad thing happened this week in my circle of friends.
Best wishes to you and your group.

Thank you.

Finoan wrote:
And yes, I will agree that PF2 doesn't really allow character builds to opt in to better Perception. You automatically aren't terrible at it. You can opt in to being slightly better. But the only way to be great at it is by locking it in with your level 1 class choice.

Yeah, I think that's something which could be done better in a future PF3E.


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Finoan wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
Finoan wrote:
Me - I'm just somewhat astonished that people are arguing that it is better to have Perception and Sense Motive a) be separate, and b) be something that you have to pay for rather than get +1/level for free on every character.
I'm astonished that I never said that, yet you are claiming I did. It's easy to be astonished at things which never happened, I guess!

It wasn't you specifically. I would have quoted you if that was the case.

That is just the feeling that I am getting from the last dozen posts on the thread.

Then I'm sorry, I guess I am a bit touchy this evening. A bad thing happened this week in my circle of friends.


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Finoan wrote:
Me - I'm just somewhat astonished that people are arguing that it is better to have Perception and Sense Motive a) be separate, and b) be something that you have to pay for rather than get +1/level for free on every character.

I'm astonished that I never said that, yet you are claiming I did. It's easy to be astonished at things which never happened, I guess!


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Ruzza wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
It should probably be moved to another skill you can actively improve your proficiency in, like Diplomacy or Deception.
ElementalofCuteness wrote:
To the person above me...Have you tried Lie to Me Deception skill feat?

Linkified

I would say that experiencing the game past level 2 could help with the perception of "Expert being bad" rather than "Expert is the baseline."

Trained is a dabbler.
Expert is where the heroes end up as a baseline.
Master is where your specialists are.
Legendary is the special one-of-a-kind talents.

Rather than seeing "I'm -2 behind other classes" it should be "this brings me up to parity when I normally wouldn't be."

Yeah, it's true I'm still mostly an outside observer, so some fine details escape me. I'll have to get back to that after I've GM'ed a campaign at least.


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Errenor wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
Errenor wrote:
magnuskn wrote:

You can do a bit about the initiative thing, but if you are playing certain classes in PF2E, you are stuck with sucking at your Sense Motive checks, without a remedy.

Both of those these aspects seem to staying the same for Player Core 2 (Perception already was still linked to Sense Motive progression, with no skill feat or the like being there to make Sense Motive better by its own), so yeah, that are things that could be remedied in some way in the future.

There you go (since CRB): Canny Acumen
Ah, yes, I should have said "You'll suck between levels 5 to 17, only 12 levels! Also, at level 17 you'll have to choose either sucking at Perception and Sense Motive or at your worst save. Thanks, I hate it!". ^^
Wut? "Suck"? At Expert level minimum, in this game? Well, if your expectation is Legendary for every save and Perception, true, it can't be helped. Otherwise you are completely unreasonable, but whatever.

Ah, yeah, thank you for putting words in my mouth. Always a great debate tactic to punch down a strawman. They are so punchy!

In a system where "every +1 matters!" is a community mantra, having a -2 on one of your important stats for at least 60% of your adventuring career of course matters. Also, the remedy at level 17 competes with your worst saving throw and if I play for example strength Champion, having a way to lessen the chance by 10% to be critically fireballed by the module boss for a few hundred points of damage will of course need to get higher priority than being a bit faster in initiative and less credulous in social interactions.

All in all, my main gripe in regards to Perception wasn't even that some classes get a low bonus throughout their career (and the way to remedy that is shared with another more important stat to boost), but that Sense Motive is tangled up in that mess. It should probably be moved to another skill you can actively improve your proficiency in, like Diplomacy or Deception.


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Kingmaker and Wrath of the Righteous were also Kickstarter campaigns.


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Errenor wrote:
magnuskn wrote:

You can do a bit about the initiative thing, but if you are playing certain classes in PF2E, you are stuck with sucking at your Sense Motive checks, without a remedy.

Both of those these aspects seem to staying the same for Player Core 2 (Perception already was still linked to Sense Motive progression, with no skill feat or the like being there to make Sense Motive better by its own), so yeah, that are things that could be remedied in some way in the future.

There you go (since CRB): Canny Acumen

Ah, yes, I should have said "You'll suck between levels 5 to 17, only 12 levels! Also, at level 17 you'll have to choose either sucking at Perception and Sense Motive or at your worst save. Thanks, I hate it!". ^^


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Well, what don't I like about PF2E so far? I haven't actually GM'ed it yet and only played until level 2 in PFS, so I'm coming at this more from an intellectual level than play experience. However, I am getting nearer to GM'ing it, since I'm opening up a group on every second Sunday among my friends in about October (due to prep time and a few people, including me, going on vacation in the interim), so I'm getting nearer to being a GM.

But a few things stand out for me:

- Like Lord Fyre, I don't like that Sorcerer bloodlines (and Witch patrons) are fixed to a certain spell list. What about people who want to play an aberration bloodline sorcerer, but would like to use the arcane spell list? That was possible in 1E, now it ain't, for no good reason than a probable "Well, we thought it'd be a neat idea!" from the devs.

- Perception being a static progression which depends on your main class chassis. Also, Sense Motive being tied into Perception, for the same reason. Not only did Monks suddenly become pretty slow in terms of initiative, they also became very credulous towards lies, compared to their 1E counterparts. You can do a bit about the initiative thing, but if you are playing certain classes in PF2E, you are stuck with sucking at your Sense Motive checks, without a remedy.

Both of those these aspects seem to staying the same for Player Core 2 (Perception already was still linked to Sense Motive progression, with no skill feat or the like being there to make Sense Motive better by its own), so yeah, that are things that could be remedied in some way in the future.


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At times I wish we got a downvote button. This was a tabloid level post with no basis in 2E reality.


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CorvusMask wrote:
Why do people want to revive old threads just to say "I disagree with you from several years ago and I had to say it" and how do they find the threads to disagree with in first place

Probably google'd about bards and Pathfinder 2E and then the person in question found this thread and posted without checking the date. That's how I've necro'ed one or two things over the last fifteen years.


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Yeah, I'm good with no predominantly cannibal ancestries, thanks.


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I'm good as long as we don't get Troll or Ogre ancestries. That'd be a step too far for me. Minotaurs never pinged on my "evil 99,9% of the time" rader, just as Medusa's didn't. Trolls (outside of those in Kaer Maga, which constitute the 0,1%) and Ogres certainly do.


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The NPC section from the GM Guide was cut.


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I think there were several projects after 2E launched which wanted to make the successor to 1E Pathfinder, but none of them came to anything.


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From my experience all classes become overpowered in 1E after level 10. The 1E Alchemist differs from a lot of the others in that he consistently is good starting from level 1.


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The Raven Black wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
PF3E ? Set your alarm clock to 5-7 years in the future.

PF2 Remaster has a longer road ahead then that.

Besides, why does it matter?

I took into account the Remaster reset.

I think it was Michael Sayre that explained a while ago that the average lifespan for a TTRPG edition was 7 years.

My personal experience has been more or less a decade between editions, hence my expectations as of right now.


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Yeah, I also always loved being the mad bomber and buff dispenser aspects of the class in 1E. The devs ripping that in two (and then moving even the useless poison stuff into its own subclass) was like a dash or ten of ice water into the face, especially with the Alchemist being (just for being the first in the alphabet) the first class you came face to face with in the playtest. I think seeing how much they crippled the class coming from 1E was one of the main things which kept me away from changing to 2E for the last five years. The other being the perceived (and real) spell nerfs through the board, which I found too excessive back then.


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Bluemagetim wrote:

Im just getting into 2e so I hope not.

I would guess Paizo as a business wouldn't want to shelf this edition after just investing in revising it. They would want to get a return on what theyve produced and exhast this design space before moving on to a new system.
As a person whos recently started buying the remaster content I wouldnt be too happy about a p3e dropping anytime soon either I mean I am just getting used to running it.

Yeah, same here. And I haven't even had the chance to run it yet, since the one group who has agreed to change to it (working on some recalcitrant guys in the other two groups...) has an on-going Strange Aeons campaign which is just now (finally......) finishing book one. Unless we TPK, which I don't hope since I can finally play a certain Alchemist in it, I'm looking at one or two years until my converted Return of the Runelords campaign even starts. I'd hate for that to finish in three to four years and not have played a single "true" 2E AP, just to see the 3E announcement. So I really hope that my guess of another decade is correct.


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Riddlyn wrote:
One little problem with this last part. There are people who don't play SF for a reason, one of those reasons being they don't care for those rules.

Or the setting. I got one player who didn't like neither the rules nor the setting.


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exequiel759 wrote:
Some people want the PF1e alchemist, which was a rogue without sneak attack but with the equivalent of half-casting and bombs (or sneak attack too, because thrashing on the rogue was a national sport back in the 3.5 / PF1e days). Even with all its problems, at least the current alchemist is an alchemist instead of the perfect jack of all trades that does everything and perfectly.

Still, it really was kind of jarring how much they nerf-batted the Alchemist. And, yeah, the 1E version was one of the classes which you could do incredible stuff with. I'm playing one right now and despite us habitually getting our asses kicked in Strange Aeons, he's reliably being an MVP, handing out buffs and being the only one to do decent reliable damage (as long as the bombs last).

At least the Rogue got what's his back in 2E and is one of the best classes in the game. I still don't think that they had to beat down the Alchemist as much as they did. Hopefully the Remaster gives the class some "Ooomph" back.


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So far I assume that the Remaster was a reset button on the next edition, i.e. expect it in ten years.


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Actually, all classes. All of them seem to be in need of improvements in some areas, I hope we got some with the added development time of eight months.


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Riddlyn wrote:
Between DM's forgetting and only around 25ish percent(?) of creatures having RS natively.

Think more like 10 - 15%. It's more rare than people think, however since some iconic monsters have it, which pop up quite often in AP's, it seems overrepresented.


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Hm, gotta wonder what the "plan on taking it in the future" is, regarding the Remaster? Are we getting more Remaster'ed books after Player Core 2?


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I don't think this is realistically feasible, just because of page counts.

Also, I personally really like that you can play for example your Rogue pretty differently, depending on your subclass. Yay for subclasses, IMO and I think the Guardian and Commander should have them in the final product.


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Sun Wukong really seems like he'd be best buds with Cayden.


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Captain Morgan wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
I'm a bit sad that creatures with elemental immunities don't all get the elemental trait they are immune against. That makes mono-element Kineticists quite sad, i.e. no fun to play against devils for a fire Kineticist.
Fire kineticist really really benefits from the blast feats that let you change damage types. Not only because of fire immunity, but because fire and cold + all physical is a great spread of weakness triggering.

True, you can remedy it with one feat.


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Thanks, Deriven, for the great summary. :)


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Dang, and I just got the suscription for the Lost Omens line today and wanted them to ship the Tian Xia guide quickly, since I really want to have a look at it (via the free PDF). My fault for not looking at the message at the top of the forum, I guess.


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Getting some bloodline abilities while raging would be thematic with the old Bloodrager as well.


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Aside from all the other stuff, I'm very interested to see what the Bloodrager archetype will look like. Will it be a wavecaster? Will it interact with bloodline abilities from the Sorcerer?


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I'm a bit sad that creatures with elemental immunities don't all get the elemental trait they are immune against. That makes mono-element Kineticists quite sad, i.e. no fun to play against devils for a fire Kineticist.


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That's quite a change of opinion from before (i.e. half a year ago or such), Deriven, where you were asking for buffs to monks. I guess seeing a lvl 20 monk in action changed your opinion?

Unless I'm misremembering here and it was Secret Wizard who asked for buffs and you were against it back then. Getting older isn't making my memory sharper, I fear. Where are those 1E buffs to my mental stats? ^^


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Mark Moreland wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
is this the Star Trek: The Next Generation or Star Trek: Deep Space Nine approach?
Probably more TNG than DS9, in the sense that we don't want someone who comes to these characters in a few years to be missing something by not having read this book. But there are some major changes to the characters that come about in the novel, so maybe it's a bit of both? You'll have to read it and report back on which of the two narrative styles you feel it fits more into.

Alright, will do! :)

I can see why you would be hesitant to involve the iconic characters in ongoing storylines, for the reason you mentioned. In the cases of Amiri and Seelah, they already are part of the Owlcat CRPG's, which are not canonical to the "true timeline" of Golarion (which is established by the AP's), yet make those two have very definite personalities in the minds of people who have played those games.


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Okay, gotta ask this, but is this "in continuity" or "out of continuity" for those characters? By this, I mean are we getting some sort of canon story which will affect them and be remembered by them in the future (as far as their personality and character growth goes... of course Amiri is going to have to deal with the death of her god) or is this just as much of a "okay, we set this particular set of iconics in this situation, next time we use them they won't remember that this happened and will be across the world in a different story" thing, like with adventure paths? By this I mean, is this the Star Trek: The Next Generation or Star Trek: Deep Space Nine approach?

Both approaches have their advantages and disadvantages, but since the iconics are, well, the iconics, of course it has more meaning to me if they experience permanent character growth or remain in their character stasis they've been in for the last decade and a half.