Agonarchy's page

I'd be happy with something like Owlcat's work but for 2E, which is why I backed the Dragon's Demand kickstarter. In the modern area I am most interested in someone developing an engine that can be used for many adventures, like Neverwinter Nights crossed with VTTs. A full jumbo campaign is great, but relies on very strong writing, while a bunch of bite-sized adventures can have hits and misses without much fuss until someone comes up with The Script for a larger-scale romp built on by-then well-tested technology.

Sling is basically an opener or backup weapon in most cases. You don't want to be a dedicated slinger unless they introduce upgrade options. My rogue basically keeps it as a weapon that could be easily bluffed as a decoration that they can tuck away on their person with little effort.

I don't think kin *needs* anything new. For single-element kins there are a non-impulse options to consider which are harder to afford on a mixed build but which are worth exploring to expand on the element.

I would love to see more impulses, but would also love to see other feats that go into different directions, like meta feats that allow for building more complex structures with igneogenesis, expanding weapon infusion options, or removing some of the limitations on extended kinesis.

Agonarchy wrote:

Pulp fantasy before the 90s frequently had swords and guns side by side. He-Man and She-Ra come from this tradition. Harry Potter never brought a shotgun to deal with Voldemort despite living in the modern era. Warhammer is from 1983. Stephen King's The Gunslinger is 1982. The 90s brought us Interview With A Vampire, not guns, except for maybe holding pistols wrong. It's just a genre preference.

Yes, but the roots of mainstream Fantasy, you LotR and D&D didn't, nor did many mainstream medieval fantasy settings. There were some in the 80s, even some that were popular, but they mostly failed to grab a foothold in the TTRPG space (Warhammer wasn't an RPG until later). As we moved into the 90s and self-publishing became easier, we started to see a lot more settings bucking the trend of Tolkien-esque fantasy in a way we saw far less of in the 80s.

D&D had guns before the 80s even started. Early D&D even had ray guns and UFOs as far back as 1E. Tolkein's work certainly codified fantasy for a lot of people and remains the most popular expression, but the guns have always been there; similarly there have been wizards hanging out with space robots for generations.

Agonarchy wrote:

Guns are a genre issue, not a realism issue.

If you're stuck in the early 80s like a boomer, sure. It's not shocking that most new fantasy worlds, read 90s forward, aren't afraid to bring in guns.

Pulp fantasy before the 90s frequently had swords and guns side by side. He-Man and She-Ra come from this tradition. Harry Potter never brought a shotgun to deal with Voldemort despite living in the modern era. Warhammer is from 1983. Stephen King's The Gunslinger is 1982. The 90s brought us Interview With A Vampire, not guns, except for maybe holding pistols wrong. It's just a genre preference.

Personally I've been using guns since I was 5 and I was bored of them by 10, but of the guns we have I find the muzzle-loader the most interesting. Indeed my Dad always offers to take me shooting and I tell him I will happily shoot with him if it's with a bow. I follow the same preference in my fantasy purely as a matter if taste.

Guns are a genre issue, not a realism issue.

I generally don't care much for sci-fi and guns, but because I can repurpose SF2E for PF2E I'm willing to give it a shot and already picked up the Galaxy Guide. Worst cae scenario I fuzz the flavor to expand PF2E; I have a bunch of Ethereal-oriented ideas where crazy weird ancestries would fit in just fine.

The trick is doing so without simply making ranged stronger. We don't need power creep.

I could see a two-action ranged feint with a penalty for distance being reasonable. Avoids stepping on melee's toes and could be improved or built upon with feat investment to make it less niche.

I had this issue with 5E not too long ago, but regarding creatures with much less context available outside their monster entries. Paizo generally expands on their material in ways closer to 2E D&D (my highest compliment), but you do have to know where to find it. I'm hopeful that we'll get some Fiendish Codex kinds of books like the upcoming Dragon book for those creatures that are less region-specific.

I imagine the fact that Paizo has major variety within the same ancestries also makes it hard to cram the details in without exploding the pages. Mwangi alone has so many pages on elves I had to take a break and flip through the deities while reading through.

It would probably help to have a variety of orc builds in the same image to better demonstrate what makes them clearly the same ancestry. As a standalone art piece it looks like a departure from other art. Ideally the same artist should draw Ulka along with some existing named orcs so the artist's stylization can be better discerned vs. the actual model concept.

PF2E designs lot of ranged weapons as special purpose weapons rather than constant-use weapons. For the average build, a ranged weapon is a sidearm you use for when something is preventing you from getting into melee, for a first round big whammy, taking advantage of an incredible opening, or for a high value target finisher. A sneak attack with an arbalest is a nice start to an encounter before you close for melee, etc.

Agonarchy wrote:

Yeah, I just write off non-scaling magic items as a PFS player. So many wonderful items that are only useful for maybe four levels.

I would just obtain the item, use it for a few levels, and then jettison it. I would mark the cost as part of my 'consumables' budget.

Note that some of these items, like Bioluminescent Stripes, are invested items. At low levels, it's easy to fit them in your investment budget... but you might want to ditch them for something else at higher level anyway.

Eh. I hate losing access to things. Upgrading to a better version, sure, but suddenly divesting myself of a signature feature bugs me. I am biiig on thematics.

It does beg the question of why anyone follows her knowing her track record of being the only survivor. You can certainly find that sort of thing in the real world, but it's not clear that anyone has ever survived under her command. Hopefully additional information will expand on this.

To preserve the classic fantasy feel, ranged weapons need to retain some disadvantages relative to melee to avoid melee becoming a bad option. This is also for the benefit of players; facing packs of minions that can trip you from across the map encounter after encounter is going to make combat a slog unless everyone uses ranged, after which the game becomes a comedic shootout.

It is desirable for ranged to need to move away from melee and for melee to chase ranged, but this is movement and not just simply stopping melee from making progress.

Melee maneuvers are heavily focused on controlling movement and positioning so they can maximize the melee attacks, not just debuffs. Melee also sometimes has the risk of active defenses, such as spiked hides, while ranged mostly just has to worry about monks catching their ammo. Using a melee maneuver typically comes at a cost to damage or other desirable traits, such as with the empty hand requirement.

As such I really don't see a need for more free abilities for ranged unless they're highly limited or costly, like a sniper opening attack. New feats and archetypes or weapon traits, special ammo, oils, etc. are always welcome.

A less heavily stylized design of Ulka features on the cover of Battlecry!

Yeah, I just write off non-scaling magic items as a PFS player. So many wonderful items that are only useful for maybe four levels.

Personally I have plans to flavor it as glowing eyes. Glowing hair could be super fun, too. Ooh or claws or tail tip.

Eldritch Archer seems to cover some of this. A few more variations on that would be nice.

I could get behind a feat or feat chain for rapid activation, or even a dedication along the lines of the other consumable specialists.

Agonarchy wrote:

...if they already have better stuff to do then problem solved?

Not if those extra things end up feeling like an action tax.

What are you willing to trade for the extra power or versitility then, if not actions?

...if they already have better stuff to do then problem solved?

Level 1-4 combats are unlikely to go on so long that you have burned through all of the Third Action options for each target on the map. If you're constantly having 6+ turn combats against solo targets at that level you're outside of the expected gameplay.

I think we can all agree that more options is always nice; heavens know I want more net options. I do feel that there is quite a lot to work with already, just not neccessarily to everyone's taste.

I can't give you your opinion.

That said, a bunch of the ammo I listed isn't magical or has uses outside of combat.

Personally I find a third action attack at -10 underwhelming compared to the status effects available in many cases.

Agonarchy wrote:

Deriven Firelion wrote:

I could be convinced that ranged ammo would be a whole lot better. The DCs are so low as to feel not worthwhile. Be more worthwhile if ammo were tied to class DC or caster DC.

PF2E's handling of item DCs is an overall design issue with the whole system that at least needs a way to pay to scale things up.

That said, these always work, as they don't rely on an initial non-flat DC, and most have no DC:

Shining Ammunition
Silver Salve
Life Shot
Aromatic Ammunition
Climbing Bolt
Ranging Shot
Trustworthy Round
Beacon Shot
Vine Arrow
Exsanguinating Ammunition
Viper Arrow
Energized Cartridge
Elemental Ammunition
Sampling Ammunition
Imp Shot
Bane Ammunition
Bola Shot
Conduit Shot
Fate Shot
Lightning Rod Shot
Magnetic Shot
Corrosive Ammunition
Sighting Shot
Mindlock Shot
Dimension Shot
Penetrating Ammunition
Shrieking Skull
Ghost Ammunition
Garrote Shot
Spell Echo Shot

And this list is all Common, PFS-legal stuff.

How many are worth a full action to use?

All of them. They're all utility functions or combat boosters. Some are more niche than others, but even weird stuff like Trustworthy Round could be a lifesaver against enemies that influence your attacks or in a bunch of RP trickery.

I could be convinced that ranged ammo would be a whole lot better. The DCs are so low as to feel not worthwhile. Be more worthwhile if ammo were tied to class DC or caster DC.

PF2E's handling of item DCs is an overall design issue with the whole system that at least needs a way to pay to scale things up.

That said, these always work, as they don't rely on an initial non-flat DC, and most have no DC:

Shining Ammunition
Silver Salve
Life Shot
Aromatic Ammunition
Climbing Bolt
Ranging Shot
Trustworthy Round
Beacon Shot
Vine Arrow
Exsanguinating Ammunition
Viper Arrow
Energized Cartridge
Elemental Ammunition
Sampling Ammunition
Imp Shot
Bane Ammunition
Bola Shot
Conduit Shot
Fate Shot
Lightning Rod Shot
Magnetic Shot
Corrosive Ammunition
Sighting Shot
Mindlock Shot
Dimension Shot
Penetrating Ammunition
Shrieking Skull
Ghost Ammunition
Garrote Shot
Spell Echo Shot

And this list is all Common, PFS-legal stuff.

Unroped net is 20'. Net and bola are both cheap, and you probably won't be spamming them.

Unusual ammo starts at 3gp. You don't spam it, but you can certainly use it when it matters.

Demoralize is 30'

Create a Diversion has no range

Recall Knowledge has no range.

Command Animal has no range.

Hide/Sneak are obviously useful.

Thievery abilities are... their own thread.

Aid, Point Out, and Sense Motive have no range.

Seek is 30'

Fascinating Performance and Distracting Performance have no range.

Recognize Spell has no range.

There is *stuff to do* beyond being a turret.

Throw a net. Throw a bola. Use ranged attacks to interact with the battlefield. Use unusual ammo. Use the various long-distance skill abilities.

Agonarchy wrote:

Kineticists can be rather effective ranged attackers, especially with weapon infusion.

Here we are entering in the casters plane once that kineticists only uses blasts when they don't have a better impulse for the situation or as 3rd action.

Build dependant! My kin's damage is all from weapon infusion blasts. Otherwise they're all about control and defense, including using nets and bolas. The flexibility and range of the blasts means they get a high portion of kills and knockouts, sometimes taking out foes on opposite sides of the map in the same round.

Kineticists can be rather effective ranged attackers, especially with weapon infusion.

Distraction and other stealth mechanisms help.

Thrown nets and bolas can be powerful, though their action economy cost can be a problem.

Combining ranged attacks with other tricks helps a lot. A ranged attacker can use traps for defense or poisons for offense. Special ammo can also allow instantly switching tactics or damage types; easy enough to keep a few cold iron and silver arrows in the quiver, plus any variety of magic ammo.

Could use a mid-range gun-supporting swashbuckler build that lets them use them basically like thrown weapons. Swash already is already built around burning actions to power a big attack and you could do some fun Annie Oakley and piratey swashbuckler tricks.

RPG-Geek wrote:

A double-action revolver wouldn't cost an extra action for a follow-up shot. So it could be 6 shots as fast as you like, and then 3 to 6 actions to reload.

So take a clue from actual history and just carry 4-6 flintlocks. Quick draw already exists so that's not a problem. That gets you through 2-3 rounds of combat before you need to reload, with zero change to the rules.

To be fair, this is where magic item cost is a factor. We'd need something like a Thrower's Bandolier for firearms - which don't get me wrong would be pretty fun, especially for Trigun fans who liked Meryl Stryfe.

The first double action revolver was invented in the late 1850s, so I would expect a fast forward invention like that to be a more likely to be in the hands of an inventor.

I get the impression that there's a desire for a Pathfinder: Deadlands mini-setting while Alkenstar is leaning a bit more piratey tech-wise.

Slide pistol is pretty close to a revolver already.

All the "if X then there would already be Y" argument does is imply X should be banned.

Obvious solution: ifrit tanuki.

Paizo wanted people to have a gun option, and wanted it to have potential for cool guns rather than face the limits of the earliest firearms (who wants to try a realistic muzzel loading wheel lock pistol against a kraken in a rain storm?). They also didn't want them to be literally just crossbows, so they fudged a few things and mostly developed guns as low Rate of Fire, big crit weapons.

Outside of action compression abilities, this works with how guns were used for centuries - as the one-shot surprise ultra wammy to tilt a melee in your favor. Guns in their modern form only came about in the 1800s.

It's worth keeping in mind that PF2 firearms also have a strong baseline crit effect and a bunch of fancy ability options no other weapon gets. Concussive, scatter, kickback, and double barrel all have their use, and a ton of firearms are either combination weapons or can be combined with melee. Also there is the spoon gun.

Overall, fast flight should take a significant investment, short or long-term. A battle form that grants you a great fly speed but locks you into its limitations works well. A mutagen that granted you speedy flight but made you clumsy or sickened based on usage would be good, too. Burrowing is another one that needs special care.

Tailwind is powerful enough that many people consider a Wand of Tailwind to be a default part of a loadout, so any expansion of it should be limited. I would nerf the duration to 10 minutes for alternative speeds.

There's no need to denigrate the play preferences of others. It's fine to just say "I would not enjoy that". We all have different preferences for how a game runs. For some, anything where you don't have four characters ready to go because instant death awaits anyone who doesn't have a ten foot pole to check every single tile on the floor feels lacking, but they don't need to declare all easier games to be of a negative quality.

Agonarchy wrote:

SpontaneousLightning wrote:

I would unironically love a feathered dragon though. It would be so fluffy. Plus it could be a nod to the theory that some dragon myths originated with dinosaur bones, and that birds are related to dinosaurs.

I'd love to see a whole feathered reptile *event* centered around the coatls that could introduce a handful of feathered snakes, dragons, drakes, and dinosaurs, and maybe finally gave us playable serpentfolk (with or without feathers). Throw in some kenku, shisk, strix, and dragonblooded options, maybe a feathered serpent medusa for kicks.

The hurdles on this are pretty much insurmountable, and it's never going to happen as a result.

... Now, if you're willing to compromise and accept tengu instead of kenku, it gets a lot more feasible.

Whups. *anime sweat drop*

I would unironically love a feathered dragon though. It would be so fluffy. Plus it could be a nod to the theory that some dragon myths originated with dinosaur bones, and that birds are related to dinosaurs.

I'd love to see a whole feathered reptile *event* centered around the coatls that could introduce a handful of feathered snakes, dragons, drakes, and dinosaurs, and maybe finally gave us playable serpentfolk (with or without feathers). Throw in some kenku, shisk, strix, and dragonblooded options, maybe a feathered serpent medusa for kicks.

Perpdepog wrote:

Also, drakes are ducks. If drakes are a type of dragon, then it therefore stands to reason that dragons are also types of ducks.

This comment made me pause and think to myself about how much I love our community.

Can't wait to play a miserly Drakeblooded with a cane sword of pogoing.

Tiers of play being different is the default rather than the exception in TTRPGs. It also isn't typically taught in video games except for things with major focus shifts like Civilization.

For the most part this can be expressed in a side bar, if it isn't already.

*Lethality and Tiers of Play*
As characters and the challenges they face increase in level, the relative challenge and risk will shift as both players and their opponents gain access to new levels of abilities. The first few levels - when player characters have fewer hit points and defensive tools - may be more lethal, so consider dialing back more difficult challenges, such as those 2 or more levels higher than the party. As players progress they will pick up new skills and tools which give them more opportunities to bounce back from a bad roll, so you can more freely lean into deadlier threats - just make sure you don't lean too hard!

Etc.

The issue is when you remove something, not when you add to it. Dilution can certainly happen, but that's usually going to happen when nothing is particularly more popular than anything else.

Holy moly I ddn't realize there were so many Twilight fans in this forum.

You don't need to enjoy something to respect someone else's joys. I'm pretty sure the bigger market for a Sparkle in the Twilight here is of the tiny horse variety, but in either case if there's an interesting idea why not. We already have dhampirs and fetchlings, after all. "If", of course.

The wonderful thing is that you can *add* things.

Maybe there's a kind of vampire that sparkles. Maybe there's a kind of four-limbed dragon that sparkles.

Reality has the platypus - fantasy doesn't need to be less weird than real life.

While I enjoy using categories, the categories are from RPGs and other recent literature, not mythology. D&D itself had has four-limbed dragons and wingless dragons inspired by these myths, at least before 3E homogenized them (e.g. steel dragons).

With wyverns there can be wyverns as distinct relatives of dragons, types of dragons, or simply flying reptiles with a superficial resemblance to dragons.

At the same time, you can have dragons that happen to have four limbs with no particular relationship to wyverns except getting mad when being confused with one.