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****** Pathfinder Society GM. Starfinder Society GM. 5,725 posts (10,066 including aliases). 63 reviews. 1 list. No wishlists. 87 Organized Play characters. 37 aliases.


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Silver Crusade

Ectar wrote:
Tridus wrote:
I'd love to see a shifter class archetype that buffs up the forms and reduces spellcasting so that kind of build feels better, since it's not really a power problem (Druid is pretty good), just that specific fantasy isn't well-served right now.
I am once again asking for Paizo to add Shifter to 2E. It seems like such a slam dunk to me

It would require Paizo to first decide EXACTLY how Battle Forms work, what does and does not add to their base stats. See many threads for the long list of things that are unclear.

And Paizo seems totally and utterly unwilling to answer any of these questions, to actually decide how Battle Forms work.

If I sound bitter its because, well, I am :-). We've been shouting our questions since the playtest and Paizo just utterly refuses to answer.

Silver Crusade

Teridax wrote:
but they very much do out-blast the Druid thanks to earth's bile, Channeler's Stance, and later Cardinal Guardians.

Have you actually PLAYED an Animist at high levels? Quite serious question, I'm genuinely curious.

Because my experience is radically different from yours. I find that I very rarely even bother with Channeler's Stance because it just isn't worth the action. Earth's Bile is nice but it more or less just compensates for the Animist having worse blasting spells.

My druid with chain lightning and hitting people with his pointy stick does at least as much damage as my animist (whether Animist or Druid does better in any particular encounter varies by the details of the encounter).

And Animist does NOT get access to Plant Shape or Dragon Shape.

I'm NOT remotely saying the Animist is weak. Its not. It can be made insanely flexible.

But it is pretty much on a par with a well built Druid power wise. The Animist is maybe, just maybe just a tiny smidgeon more powerful

Silver Crusade

Teridax wrote:

. For me, the issue is that at high level, the Druid doesn't really have the best chassis as a caster in general -- they end up with pretty much the exact same chassis as any Wisdom caster. If the only thing going for them is that they're the only Wisdom primal caster around, that makes them extremely vulnerable to any newly-released class that attempts something similar, like the Animist: despite the class being a divine caster, they get to access a ton of spells and effects that are normally the Druid's "thing", including strong blasting from early on, effective Strikes, and battle forms, all through their focus spells to boot.

While you are quite right that they are vulnerable to a new class coming out that is pretty much true for everybody. At the moment, they are definitely the best primal class if you want to mix it in melee and on par with all other primal classes as pure casters.

As to the Animist, I personally think it is more or less balanced with the druid up until L16 (which is as high as I have currently played it),

The Animist wild shape is great but the 1 action sustain hurts (even with the free movement on sustain). They don't get access to some of the best options (Plant Shape at specifically L10 and L12 being the clearest example).

And the Animist spell list is different from the primal and inferior if you really like blasting. My favourite blasting spell for quite a few levels is Chain Lightning. Many (certainly NOT all) of the spirit spells are pretty poor.

And the Animist is just finicky in play. It is easy to get analysis paralysis. It is easy to spend so much time sustaining your focus spells that you almost forget that you actually have high level spell slots, You just have too many resources to use them all effectively :-).

I LOVE my Animist. But I also love my druids. I think the Animist is somewhat overpowered compared to say a cleric. But, in the niche that my druids tend to fill, I think the Animist and Druid are on par.

Silver Crusade

Teridax wrote:


I think what got lost in translation ... The issue being pointed out is that The Druid's standout benefits fizzle out at high levels, such that past 15th level onwards the class has no unique features.

Yeah, I totally didn't realize that was your primary issue.

I actually mostly agree with this. At the highest levels the druid is largely (not completely, but largely) "just" a very good spellcaster who can also mix it in melee if they were built that way and it seems a good idea.

But they are still by far the best chassis if you want a primal caster who can mix it in melee. And pretty much on par with other options if you just want a primal caster. 2 extra hit points a level (compared to other primal casters) may be boring but it is ALWAYS quite valuable.

I can live with that. I don't personally find the lack of a "gimmic" problematic.

One other thing to keep in mind. At high levels it is possible to use money or feats for a non druid to get a lot of what the druid gets (eg, wings of flying or ancestry feats instead of growing your own wings, getting armor proficiency, shield block, etc). But the druid gets to spend those resources elsewhere if they want. So, you can't just say " eh, I can get that as a high level cleric". Yeah, you can. But you missed out on SOMETHING else to get it.

Silver Crusade

Deriven Firelion wrote:
Wild is the main path for every druid to standout and be the versatile, crazy combat machine they are.

I love wild shaping druids but to be fair they DO have 2 huge issues

1) the mid to high level shapes need a lot of room. Wild shaping druids do much better in the wilderness than in cramped dungeons.

2) the usefulness of the combat forms drops off significantly at the highest levels.

Also, the remaster change to the monk archetype flurry have significantly weakened wild shape (I think it was a good change, mind, as poaching the monks defining ability was too good)

In my experience, Wild Shaping always remains a viable part of the druids kit, but it gets used less and less often past level 12 or so.

Also, the druid is no longer the clearly best wild shaper. Animists are also contenders in that role (there are tradeoffs and I think they're fairly balanced).

And, of course, there is still the fact that there are huge rules ambiguities around Battle Forms which means they're just better at some tables than others

Silver Crusade

Squiggit wrote:


... But it is kind of odd that the Druid lacks an obvious core class feature. Literally every caster has some kind of unique feature and it's really striking the druid just... doesn't. No font, no subclass mechanic, no unique cantrip, no damage bonus, nothing.

No, they essentially have subclasses. Animal, wild shape, storm, etc.

You can pick 2 and be very good at them or more and be decent.

They're not quite subclasses but they pretty much fill the same design space,

Quote:


I kind of despise posts like this.

I admit that I skimmed the original quite long post and didn't catch all the details. For that I apologize.

But in my defence it was quite a long post and his vague comments on spell lists was very close to the end.

And I just totally disagree with the conclusion. I think it is SO completely wrong that I didn't pay as much attention to all the details of his argument as I should have.

In my opinion, even post remaster, the Cleric and Druid fill different roles. And they both fill their role well. At pretty much all levels.

You certainly can NOT just dismiss two of the largest differences (the quality of the Primal vs Divine spell lists and the quality of Druid vs Cleric focus spells with a breezy

OP wrote:
The primal spell list is arguably a bit stronger than the divine spell list even when factoring in Cleric spells granted by deities, though this gap has significantly lessened post-remaster. The Druid's focus spells are also arguably a bit better than domain spells, though that gap has also lessened following the remaster's buffs to the latter.

I fully agree that the remaster has significantly improved the Divine spell list and Cleric focus spells, but they are still inferior to the Primal and Druid focus spells for the kinds of things that a druid concentrates on . The cleric definitely wins out in the things that it usually concentrates on

Silver Crusade

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Uh, you seem to be assuming that the primal and divine spells are identical and that clerics and druids fill the same role in the group.

If I want to play a blaster I'm playing a druid and all your analysis above is kinda off the point.

If I want to play a healer I'm playing a cleric and all your analysis above is kinda off the point.

Silver Crusade

Albion, The Eye wrote:

I GMs might start sticking to safe, popular adventures because they pay better, instead of trying weird, personal, or experimental stuff that might not sell as well but could be way more creative or meaningful.

It is an incredibly small sample set but I'm on a Mutants and Masterminds discord server on which professional GMs advertize from time to time.

They are definitely NOT sticking to safe stuff, they're definitely offering at least some fairly weird stuff

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Oceanshieldwolf wrote:


Clearly I’m in an extreme minority.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. You may possibly be in a minority (and possibly are in the majority) but I've seen absolutely no data one way or the other. And I've heard enough people voice opinions similar to yours that I'm pretty sure that you are NOT in an "extreme minority", at least not as I'd define the term

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
RPG-Geek wrote:
Agonarchy wrote:
Guns are a genre issue, not a realism issue.
If you're stuck in the early 80s like a boomer, sure. It's not shocking that most new fantasy worlds, read 90s forward, aren't afraid to bring in guns.

Stuck in the early 80s? Don't be completely absurd.

Lord of the Rings was published in 1954-1955 and its been downhill ever since :-) :-).

And please do NOT call this Old Fart a Boomer :-) :-).

Silver Crusade

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The fact that they're not (yet) inflicting starship combat rules on me is the single biggest factor tempting me to try Starfinder 2e.

Silver Crusade

OrochiFuror wrote:
Remaster took a lot of power away from fighter

I must have missed this. What did the remaster take away from the fighter?

Silver Crusade

Warmagon wrote:


But some people might be interested in other styles of fighter/mage hybrid and only reluctantly going with Magus because it is what's there. Ie, our old school fighter mage might have a playstyle of unleash attack or control spell early, and then swap styles to weapon attacks to close out the fight. Or use weapons to save resources, unless the fight goes poorly and then go with spells.

This playstyle is pretty much how a shifter druid plays up to the low teens.

Although, of course, there is a LOT of baggage that goes along with playing a druid.

But in a home game it might make a good chassis for such a mage.

Silver Crusade

Tridus wrote:


Untamed Order Druids that want to play primarily as a martial character can have a pretty bad time, to be fair. The class doesn't really keep up on that front and there's nothing the player can do about it.

If you use it as an option in the right situation it works fine, but someone who wants to play an older style "being in forms is my thing and I want to do it all the time" type will struggle. I saw it happen in a game I ran. The outcome just doesn't live up to the fantasy. (We'd need a class archetype that shifts more of the class power in that direction and away from magic to probably actually get what that player was looking for.)

Being primarily a shifter with some spell support works pretty well up to about the low teens.

But you’re totally right that
1) even at lower levels you have to mix shifting and spells, even if it’s primarily utility spells
2) the shifting gets less and less useful the further past L12 you get. Still stays part of your toolkit but you use it less and less often

Even a shifting focused Druid HAS to keep their wisdom at or very near maximum which means less con and makes you a bit fragile in the front lines

Silver Crusade

I think I'm going to pass on this. I'm just in too many games already.

Have fun everybody

Silver Crusade

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As a possibly useful aside, Animists CAN shift forms when they use their Darkened Forest Form

Silver Crusade

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You said that you're fairly inexperienced with M&M so I thought that I'd mention that PL 8 is the usual recommended starting level for teen super heros (Gives them room to grow and keeps them less powerful than the adults). PL 10 gives us a LOT of points to play with :-).

But PL 10 is fine :-).

Sky High has made me think of Layla.

Would - Plant Boy be a reasonably quirk?

He'd be able to control existing plants, create things from wood (including armour around himself), that sort of thing?

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Deliberately choosing different ones than Tridus (all of which except
Roaring Applause I like)

Tailwind is so good that I've been in multiple PFS groups where EVERYONE has it.

My personal favourite blasting spell gotten at levels where people actually play is Chain Lightning

Untamed Form is great fun at appropriate levels. Not sure if a focus spell that takes lots of feats counts in this list but I love it so I'm including it :-).

For sheer utter "Paizo just totally gave up on even pretending that out of combat healing is an issue" then I nominate Garden of Healing

I've only starting using it, but Illusory Creature can be remarkably useful and versatile for a low level spell. Depends a bit too much on GM and Player to be a staple but in the right hands it rocks.

Silver Crusade

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Trail goes along with Svetozar.

He feels the need to pipe in
"We want to sell it to somebody who will treat it right, of course."

Because, OF COURSE, there are LOTS of places around here that will treat an OwlBear humanely :-) :-)

Silver Crusade

I'm interested if we use M&M 3. I'm afraid that my Champion days are way, way tin the past at this point (it just has too much needless complication IMHO)

Silver Crusade

This is almost identical to the last one. Fixed one error (I had the Con and Int swapped), used some of the Affinity (stat boost) feats.

Will worry more about equipment (and will create an alias) if selected

Sahela Jamal is a L1 Noble/L2 Wilder/L4 Initiate/L3 Windfinder

She has never managed to remove her Block. She must be happy in order to channel.

Personality:

In general, Sahela is a friendly, happy person who loves her life. While she very definitely has a decadent streak a mile wide she can put it aside and rough it when the circumstances call for it. And she is compassionate and caring, never putting her pleasure above others rights. Pleasure should be mutual, not taken at the expense of others.

She has a bubbly, nearly irrepresible personality. She always likes to look On The Bright Side of Life.

Despite the above, she is a shrewd merchant and a credit to both her Clan and Family. She is fiercely loyal to both of these. She has a strong sense of responsibility to those under her command, those she considers her friends, etc.

History:

Sahela Jamal is the third born child of a noble merchant family from Arad Doman. She had a fairly typical childhood for a Domani noble woman, learning the arts of seduction and learning how to work within her families business empire.

That all changed when she discovered that she had the ability to channel the One Power. Not particularly wanting to join the Aes Sedai she successfully hid this ability for awhile. But one day family business took her onto an Atha'An Miere ship where her ability was quickly discovered. Both because she seemed fairly strong in weather magic and because they could see the value in having a noble merchant significantly in their debt they swore Sahela to secrecy and agreed to train her in both The Power and in their culture.

She spent several years mastering her power, although she was never able to overcome her block. Possibly because it so rarely actually affected her, she was always a good natured happy person and she quickly mastered the self control required to attain that emotion more or less at will.

At this point in her life she was truly a daughter of two cultures. While she chafed at the discipline required on ship she loved the fun loving attitudes of the Atha'An Miere in general and soon mastered the skills required to function on shipboard (she already was quite adept at the merchant skills needed). Never being fully accepted by the Atha'an Miere they still greatly valued her, especially her contacts into the Jamal family business. And having somebody who was quite willing to travel on land as well as on ship was a great asset.

From the point of view of her family, having access to the trade networks of her adopted clan was also of great benefit.

Both her adopted clan and her family benefited from the relationship, both were quite happy with her progress in the Power, both were very eager to keep her abilities quiet.

And then Tarmon Gai'don came and the need for secrecy vanished. Given that her Clan wasn't participated directly but her family was she joined a company of soldiers loyal to the Jamal family fighting on the side of the Dragon Reborn and led by her elder brother. The Jamal company was too small to have any huge impact on the fight but it gained a reputation of being a solid, well lead, well disciplined force capable of achieving the missions assigned to it. Sahela was a significant asset. While she wasn't capable of raining down fire from the skies on the enemies she WAS very good at getting weather to help conceal her troops, usethe magic to set up ambushes, etc. The Jamals and her Atha'An Miere clan could (and did) hold their heads high over their contribution to the great victory.

Since the victory at Tarmon Gai'don she has spent much of her time with the Athan'An Miere and has finally been granted the rank and status of Windfinder which they had previously been unwilling to give to one not fully of their people.

She has spent the last few years mastering her skills with the Power, working with her clan, and trying to find diplomatic solutions to the Seanchen occupation of her homeland. She is getting a bit bored of the quiet life and is seeking an opportunity for adventure.

Stats:

Str 11 Dex 13 Con 13 Int 16 Wis 18 Cha 16

BAB +4, Fort +7, Ref +10, Will +18. Def +7(+1 Dex), Rep 7

Feats:

Background : Domani, Seductive
L1: L1 Noble (Noble Knowledge, Inspire Courage)
L1 Feat : Inteligence Talent
L2: L1 Wilder : Block, Cross-Talent, Overchanneling, Affnity Air, Talent Cloudwalking
L3: L2 Wilder : Wilder Feat: Extra Affinity (Water)
L3 Feat - Skill Focus (Composure)
L4 L1 Initiate : Talent (Elementalism) Affinity (Spirit)
L4 L1 Initiate Feat : Extra Affinity (Fire)
L5 L2 Initiate : Tie Off Weave
L5 Feat - Skill Focus Invert
L6 L3 Initiate : Slow Aging
L7 L4 Initiate : Multiweave
L7 Feat - Charisma Talent
L8 L1 Windfinder Iron Will, Windfinder Presence
L9 L2 Windfinder : Multiweave
L9 Feat - Wisdom Talent
L10 L3 Windfinder - Windfinder Control

Skills:

Total Skill ranks 1 (Background) + 10*9 (all classes are 4 + 3 Int +2 Background) +6 (Favored class Initiate) = 97

Bluff (10) : 16
Composure (10) : 23 (+5 to overchannel)
Diplomacy (10) : 16
Disguise (6) : 12
Heal (3) : 10
Intimidate (10) : 20
Invert (10) : 22
Knowledge Arcana (1) : 8
Knowledge Architecture and Engineering (1) : 8
Knowledge Blight (0) : +4
Knowledge Geography (1) : 8
Knowledge History (1) : 8
Knowledge Local (1) : 8
Knowledge Nature (1) : 8
Knowledge Nobility (3) : 10
Knowledge The Age of Legends (0) : +4
Perform (Flute) (2) : 9 (masterwork)
Perception (3) : 10
Profession Merchant (10) : 17
Profession Sailor (3) : 10
Sense Motive (1) : 8
Weavesight (10) : 20

Total 97

One Power:

4 L0, 7 L1, 6 L2, 6 L3 3 L4 1 L5
Talent - Cloud Dancing, Elementalism
Affinities - Air, Water, Spirit, Fire

Weaves known: 6 (Wilder Base) +8 (Extra levels) +3 (Wis) = 17

Cloud Dancing Focus
Harness the Wind [Air, Water]
Raise Fog [Air, Water]

Elementalism Focus
Arms of Air [Air]
Current [Spirit, Water]
Harden Air [Air]
Light [Fire, Air]
Whirlpool [Spirit, Water]

Healing
Delve [Spirit]
Heal [Air, Spirit, Water]
Renew [Air, Spirit, Water]

Illusion
Disguise [Air, Fire, Spirit]
Folded Light [Air, Fire]
Mirror of Mists [Air, Fire, Spirit]
Disguise Clothing [Air, Fire, Spirit]

Class Powers:

Noble - Noble Lore (+1 to all knowledge skills, all used untrained)
- Inspire Courage (talk for entire round, +1 to hit, damage, morale) lasts while heard +4 rounds thereafter. Use once per combat

Silver Crusade

Here is my submission. I'll create an alias if I'm selected.

Haven't selected equipment yet and I have a couple of unspent feats.

Ideally, I'd like something to boost a stat or my overchanelling.

Are the various "Get a +1 innate bonus to a stat" feats from Under The Dragon Banner legal?

Sahela Jamal is a L1 Noble/L2 Wilder/L4 Initiate/L3 Windfinder

She has never managed to remove her Block. She must be happy in order to channel.

Personality:

In general, Sahela is a friendly, happy person who loves her life. While she very definitely has a decadent streak a mile wide she can put it aside and rough it when the circumstances call for it. And she is compassionate and caring, never putting her pleasure above others rights. Pleasure should be mutual, not taken at the expense of others.

She has a bubbly, nearly irrepresible personality. She always likes to look On The Bright Side of Life.

Despite the above, she is a shrewd merchant and a credit to both her Clan and Family. She is fiercely loyal to both of these. She has a strong sense of responsibility to those under her command, those she considers her friends, etc.

History:

Sahela Jamal is the third born child of a noble merchant family from Arad Doman. She had a fairly typical childhood for a Domani noble woman, learning the arts of seduction and learning how to work within her families business empire.

That all changed when she discovered that she had the ability to channel the One Power. Not particularly wanting to join the Aes Sedai she successfully hid this ability for awhile. But one day family business took her onto an Atha'An Miere ship where her ability was quickly discovered. Both because she seemed fairly strong in weather magic and because they could see the value in having a noble merchant significantly in their debt they swore Sahela to secrecy and agreed to train her in both The Power and in their culture.

She spent several years mastering her power, although she was never able to overcome her block. Possibly because it so rarely actually affected her, she was always a good natured happy person and she quickly mastered the self control required to attain that emotion more or less at will.

At this point in her life she was truly a daughter of two cultures. While she chafed at the discipline required on ship she loved the fun loving attitudes of the Atha'An Miere in general and soon mastered the skills required to function on shipboard (she already was quite adept at the merchant skills needed). Never being fully accepted by the Atha'an Miere they still greatly valued her, especially her contacts into the Jamal family business. And having somebody who was quite willing to travel on land as well as on ship was a great asset.

From the point of view of her family, having access to the trade networks of her adopted clan was also of great benefit.

Both her adopted clan and her family benefited from the relationship, both were quite happy with her progress in the Power, both were very eager to keep her abilities quiet.

And then Tarmon Gai'don came and the need for secrecy vanished. Given that her Clan wasn't participated directly but her family was she joined a company of soldiers loyal to the Jamal family fighting on the side of the Dragon Reborn and led by her elder brother. The Jamal company was too small to have any huge impact on the fight but it gained a reputation of being a solid, well lead, well disciplined force capable of achieving the missions assigned to it. Sahela was a significant asset. While she wasn't capable of raining down fire from the skies on the enemies she WAS very good at getting weather to help conceal her troops, usethe magic to set up ambushes, etc. The Jamals and her Atha'An Miere clan could (and did) hold their heads high over their contribution to the great victory.

Since the victory at Tarmon Gai'don she has spent much of her time with the Athan'An Miere and has finally been granted the rank and status of Windfinder which they had previously been unwilling to give to one not fully of their people.

She has spent the last few years mastering her skills with the Power, working with her clan, and trying to find diplomatic solutions to the Seanchen occupation of her homeland. She is getting a bit bored of the quiet life and is seeking an opportunity for adventure.

Stats:

Str 11 Dex 13 Con 15 Int 13 Wis 16 Cha 16

BAB +4, Fort +9, Ref +10, Will +17. Def +7(+1 Dex), Rep 7

Feats:

Background : Domani, Seductive
L1: L1 Noble (Noble Knowledge, Inspire Courage)
L1 Feat : Great Fortitude
L2: L1 Wilder : Block, Cross-Talent, Overchanneling, Affnity Air, Talent Cloudwalking
L3: L2 Wilder : Wilder Feat: Extra Affinity (Water)
L3 Feat - Skill Focus (Composure)
L4 L1 Initiate : Talent (Elementalism) Affinity (Spirit)
L4 L1 Initiate Feat : Extra Affinity (Fire)
L5 L2 Initiate : Tie Off Weave
L5 Feat - Skill Focus Invert
L6 L3 Initiate : Slow Aging
L7 L4 Initiate : Multiweave
L7 Feat - Untaken
L8 L1 Windfinder Iron Will, Windfinder Presence
L9 L2 Windfinder : Multiweave
L9 Feat - Untaken
L10 L3 Windfinder - Windfinder Control

Skills:

Total Skill ranks 1 (Background) + 10*8 (all classes are 4 + 2 Int +2 Background) +6 (Favored class Initiate) = 87

Bluff (8) : 14
Composure (10) : 22 (+5 to overchannel)
Diplomacy (9) : 15
Disguise (4) : 10
Heal (1) : 7
Intimidate (10) : 20
Invert (10) : 21
Knowledge Arcana (1) : 7
Knowledge Architecture and Engineering (1) : 7
Knowledge Blight (0) : +3
Knowledge Geography (1) : 7
Knowledge History (1) : 7
Knowledge Local (1) : 7
Knowledge Nature (1) : 7
Knowledge Nobility (2) : 8
Knowledge The Age of Legends (0) : +3
Perform (Flute) (1) : 9 (masterwork)
Perception (1) : 7
Profession Merchant (10) : 16
Profession Sailor (4) : 10
Sense Motive (1) : 7
Weavesight (10) : 19

Total 87

One Power:

4 L0, 7 L1, 6 L2, 3 L5 2 L4 1 L5
Talent - Cloud Dancing, Elementalism
Affinities - Air, Water, Spirit, Fire

Weaves known: 6 (Wilder Base) +8 (Extra levels) +3 (Wis) = 17

Cloud Dancing Focus
Harness the Wind [Air, Water]
Raise Fog [Air, Water]

Elementalism Focus
Arms of Air [Air]
Current [Spirit, Water]
Harden Air [Air]
Light [Fire, Air]
Whirlpool [Spirit, Water]

Healing
Delve [Spirit]
Heal [Air, Spirit, Water]
Renew [Air, Spirit, Water]

Illusion
Disguise [Air, Fire, Spirit]
Folded Light [Air, Fire]
Mirror of Mists [Air, Fire, Spirit]
Disguise Clothing [Air, Fire, Spirit]

Class Powers:

Noble - Noble Lore (+1 to all knowledge skills, all used untrained)
- Inspire Courage (talk for entire round, +1 to hit, damage, morale) lasts while heard +4 rounds thereafter. Use once per combat

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Just dotting in right now before heading to bed. Will create an alias tomorrow.

I simultaneously LOVE and ABSOLUTELY HATE your Iron Lady picture :-) :-).
I'm an ex=pat Brit and lived through those years (although I was in Canada at the time) :-) :-) :-)

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I doubt the GM would allow it but I’ll happily swap my stat array for yours :-).
15,15,15,13,13,11,

Silver Crusade

Still here

Silver Crusade

Elementalism is way too good isn’t it :-). Both powerful AND versatile

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Ravingdork wrote:
Finoan wrote:

My thoughts: You are allowed to function as the tool you transform into. That does let you do the work of the tool without taking damage even in adverse conditions. That doesn't give you resistances or immunities to damage or negative conditions from anything else.

So you could be a teakettle set over a fire to heat water. You could be a pincushion and hold a few dozen pins. Being a teakettle doesn't protect you from a Fire Breath spell. Being a pincushion doesn't protect you from damage from a rapier.

More or less how I interpret it as well.

I think it pretty much has to be this way or some of the later transformations just don't work. For example, in Landscape form you provides delicious food. That just about HAS to violate the normal transformation rules as otherwise people are eating PART of you. Objects taken out of you turn into leaves. Clearly significantly more than the normal transformation rules is going on.

Silver Crusade

I need to get some input on the mechanics to finalize my character.

Is the following correct for a L6 Noble? It is taking from the Under The Dragons Banner with your class additions above.

She would have Noble Knowledge +3 (+3 to all knowledge skills, all can be used untrained)

She would have Inspire Courage +2 to will saves, hit and damage.

She could use Inspire Courage once per battle, the effects last as long as she speaks and then 6 + charisma mod rounds thereafter

She gets Favor +2, Resource Access, Coordinate +1 and a bonus feat

Silver Crusade

I have what is mostly a world question.

What happens to the Aes Sedai initiates who don't pass the tests, who flunk out? Are they stilled, killed, or just kicked out of the tower as wilders?

Silver Crusade

Putting it all together now.

Question - I think that we do NOT get the normal Pathfinder +2 ability boost nor the +1 skill rank per level (I assume we still get the feat, class skill and 1 rank from our background). Is that right?

She is a Domani noblewoman (second born and the family is only of middling rank).

When her powers became manifest she was sent to the Aes Sedai but failed to complete the training (she was never able to remove her Block). She still has contacts within the tower (especially in the Grey Ajah) and she still considers herself an ally and almost member of the Tower (and the Tower often acts like it agrees but perhaps that is just because she is a useful tool).

She lead a small company at Tarmon Gai'don, a company that firmly did its duty and gained a reputation as being reliable but far too small a company to have any significant role in the fight.

She was gravely injured in that war and took a few years to fully recuperate from her injuries, both physical and mental. In the last few years she has been using her political skills to try and help the Domani against the invading interlopers, so far to little effect.

Mechanically, she is a L3 Wilder, L6 Noble and L1 Commander.

Silver Crusade

Haven't figured it all out yet, but I'm going for a female noble who is also a wilder. The magic will very much be secondary.

I don't quite understand how a noble works though.

I get bardic knowledge. I get that. What I don't get is how often I can inspire confidence and instill fear. And I don't understand what instill fear actually does.

Silver Crusade

Stats
stat: 4d6 ⇒ (6, 2, 2, 3) = 13 11
stat: 4d6 ⇒ (5, 4, 4, 1) = 14 13
stat: 4d6 ⇒ (3, 1, 6, 6) = 16 15
stat: 4d6 ⇒ (5, 6, 3, 4) = 18 15
stat: 4d6 ⇒ (4, 6, 3, 2) = 15 13
stat: 4d6 ⇒ (2, 5, 5, 5) = 17 15

Not too shabby.

Need to think about character a fair bit.

Some questions
1) are we limited to the feats in the Core Rulebook or do we have the whole of PF1 to draw from? At the moment I'm thinking largely of Crane Style for an Algai'd'diswai
2) I don't think I understand how many weaves an initiate gets. They learn by observation and don't get any specifically per level

Silver Crusade

So, 6 of us expressed interest if I’m counting right ( yeah, this post is mainly to bring the thread back into visibility :-))

Silver Crusade

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SuperBidi wrote:


Sorry, Paul, I assume I annoyed you because our conversations tend to be more civil usually.

I shouldn't have been snarky like that. Sorry.

I just disagree with you so much on your basic point. Kineticists are a fine class. In general they make for quite versatile characters. Oh, they're not as good at anything as the specialists, but they're better at everything else except the specialty.

Like all generalists they are going to lose some of their value in really well constructed groups that cover all the bases. But even there they do fine. And they shine in settings like PFS or casual games where their ability to be decent at multiple things becomes very valuable.

Last night I played in a game that illustrated the value of their versatility. At the very start of L3 we got into a incorporeal heavy dungeon. Being able to do spirit damage rocked, making it tied with the alchemist as the most valuable martial in the group. Or it was tied with the fighter and alchemist when dealing with the zombies as they had slashing damage.

Versatility has huge value and it can often be overlooked. And most kineticists have a lot of it (not all, admittedly. But the fire kineticist is a pretty decent AoE sort)

Silver Crusade

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SuperBidi wrote:
pauljathome wrote:
And that is the key to a decent kineticist. You have several different tools in your bag, picking the one that meets the situation.
I've seen a lvl 1-10 Metal Kineticist, a lvl 2-10 Earth Kineticist, a lvl 6 Earth/Fire Kineticist, a lvl 1-4 Air Kineticist and a lvl 1-4 Wood Kineticist. .

So, you have NOT seen a kineticist using Jagged Berms then. But you still claim it is just plain bad. Interesting.

Silver Crusade

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SuperBidi wrote:


Jagged Berms is bad even if I see how it can combo with Timber Sentinel (again).

If you think Jagged Berms is bad then you haven’t seen it used by a competent player. It’s situational, sure. But when the situation comes up it is absolutely devastating.

And that is the key to a decent kineticist. You have several different tools in your bag, picking the one that meets the situation.

Which is a LONG way from it just being an AoE blaster

Silver Crusade

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SuperBidi wrote:
Claxon wrote:
The kineticist is a jack of all trades, and a master of none.
The Kineticist can hardly be called a jack of all trades. It's mostly an AoE damage dealer with martial level of tanking.

The Kineticist in my group who loves to use Timber Sentinel and Jagged Berms would like to disagree with you.

If you think that the Kineticist is mostly an AoE damage dealer then you've only been exploring a small subset of its options.

Silver Crusade

Annelise Wykes wrote:
Sorry for the ultimatum but I really want this scene to move forward! It's fine to make an "outlandish" character but you do then need to make them a team player. I'm hoping Trail will see reason here :)

Just so you know, giving ultimatums really isn't the best approach to dealing with me (or most people for that matter). Don't forget our characters barely know each other right now.

Silver Crusade

I'd definitely be interested. I read the first 3 or 4 books quite awhile back before I got bored. So, I remember the basics of the setting and history but not all that much beyond that.

Even played a few sessions in a WoT campaign (before the RPG came out, homebrew using Fantasy Hero rules) :-).

I presume that you'll have notes on what the fourth age looks like, what character options we have, etc.

Silver Crusade

For the record, Paul completely agrees with you :-). Trail, not so much :-(

Silver Crusade

Rolled up another character that just wasn't talking to me :-). So I'm done creating characters. I have one that I quite like. That is the one that I'll play if I'm selected

Silver Crusade

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I'm finishing up my character but need to roll a few more dice first

HTC: 11d6 ⇒ (3, 4, 3, 3, 1, 4, 3, 6, 3, 4, 2) = 36
HTK: 11d6 ⇒ (4, 5, 3, 4, 3, 1, 3, 6, 5, 1, 4) = 39

Character details (still very much a work in progress)
are here

Silver Crusade

3d6 ⇒ (2, 2, 4) = 83d6 ⇒ (2, 6, 2) = 103d6 ⇒ (3, 5, 1) = 93d6 ⇒ (1, 1, 1) = 3

Silver Crusade

And now, a second character. Just to see what I roll.

Ego: 3d6 ⇒ (5, 4, 2) = 11
Strength: 3d6 ⇒ (1, 4, 4) = 9
Dexterity: 3d6 ⇒ (2, 5, 3) = 10
Vigor: 3d6 ⇒ (6, 1, 6) = 13
Power Roll: 2d6 ⇒ (1, 4) = 5 = 3+4 = 7

Power 1: 1d100 ⇒ 16 Energy Attack
Energy type: 1d10 ⇒ 5 Plasma

Power 2: 1d100 ⇒ 18 Energy Attack

Ok, we're obviously a decent blaster.

I think I want my background now to help my concept gell
Advantageous Background: 1d10 ⇒ 8

Rich Industrialist. I can definitely live with that.

Power 3: 1d100 ⇒ 35 Heightened Senses
Sense: 1d6 ⇒ 5 Radar Sense

Power 4: 1d100 ⇒ 63 Sidekick

Lets at least see what stats he would have

Ego: 3d6 ⇒ (6, 2, 3) = 11
Strength: 3d6 ⇒ (2, 1, 1) = 4
Dexterity: 3d6 ⇒ (2, 6, 5) = 13
Vigor: 3d6 ⇒ (6, 1, 2) = 9

No, this character is definitely NOT talking to me. Dropping this one from consideration

Silver Crusade

Ok, lets roll me some dice

Ego: 3d6 ⇒ (1, 6, 1) = 8
Strength: 3d6 ⇒ (2, 4, 2) = 8
Dexterity: 3d6 ⇒ (6, 5, 5) = 16
Vigor: 3d6 ⇒ (4, 5, 2) = 11
Power Roll: 2d6 ⇒ (1, 4) = 5 = 3+4 = 7

I think I'm going to have at least 1 advantageous background

Power 1: 1d100 ⇒ 49
49 Doesn't exist, rerolling :-(
Power 1: 1d100 ⇒ 69 Speed
Power 2: 1d100 ⇒ 100

Definitely getting a bit of a thought here. Going with
Insubstantial.

Power 3 - raise insubstantial to 2,

Movement is base 6. Speed brings it up to 12.

Ok, lets see what my background is

We start with one to get the character concept started
Advantageous background: 1d10 ⇒ 2

Brilliant mechanical scientist. Right, so we have a power suit or the like

Power 4: 1d100 ⇒ 12 Cybernetics
Cybernetics: 1d10 ⇒ 1 Bionic Arm
Strength of arm: 1d10 + 10 ⇒ (6) + 10 = 16
Power 5: 1d100 ⇒ 28 Flight
Power 6: 1d100 ⇒ 44 Martial Arts
Which Martial: 1d6 ⇒ 4 Pugilism

Ok, that sort of works. We have a research scientist who lost his arm in an accident while working on a suit that would let him control his atomic vibrations. Build himself a bionic arm.

While not particularly fast he is good enough that he can get in and out of places. Sometimes he'll just fight with his phasing power, sometimes he'll hit things.

Playable. Definitely a candidate.

But I like rolling characters so I'm going to at least see what a second one brings me

Silver Crusade

Vexas Flamespark wrote:
Rats...

Yup. It HAD to be rats

Silver Crusade

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I'd kinda maybe be interested depending on what the rolls came up with. If memory serves, one can come up with some truly absurdly unplayable characters and some others that I would personally find not at all amusing (I may be conflating with some other random generation of super hero system).

So, if this was a recruitment thread I'd be rolling dice and then deciding at the end if I wanted to continue to apply.

Note, I'm NOT saying that I'd only play if I got some Uber powerful character. But I would need to come up with a character that felt fun AND that I thought could at least contribute to the group. I don't need to play Superboy but I wouldn't enjoy playing Bouncing Boy or Color Kid in a group that had superboy.

Edit: If I find time I'll probably actually create a character because that is probably fun :-)

Silver Crusade

The other thing to consider is skills and Archetypes. Dex has quite a few useful skills. If nobody else in the party is handling disabling traps then going dex over con and maxing out thievery is an attractive option. And EVERYBODY wants kip up if they can manage to fit it into their build.

Probably not an issue since Oracles tend to go all in on social skills but worth at least giving a bit of thought to.

As to archetypes, there are lots of interesting archetypes that need dex to get into. Again, likely not an issue for a bones oracle but I ALWAYS give at least some thought to the rogue dedication (I love skills :-))

Silver Crusade

Gonna take a bit to put it all together but I'm definitely going with a youngish Jewish veterinarian who is absolutely superb with animals.

His family were doctors in Africa. There was a monsoon hitting the land at the point just before he was born, destroying the hut his family lived in and forcing them to take shelter in an ancient ruin to some long forgotten monkey God. It was in the inner sanctum that he was born which is (he guesses) the reason for his strange supernatural powers.

Although too young to fully participate in The Great War his memories of it have had a great influence on him and inspired his hatred of almost all things Germanic (but NOT all Germans, just most of them).

Mechanically, a courtly hunter with an ape companion.

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