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I always preferred Investigator with Alchemist MC since you can actually advance faster and higher in bomb strikes, plus Alchemical Sciences net you (I think) up to 9 more max level elixers for the day. Oh, and you get the Strategic Strike damage with your bombs that way also.
Doing a quick word search and skim for "spirit" in this thread, I found only one brief mention of the essences of magic and spirit being one of them. Maybe I missed something more substantial relating to this but anyway.... I think this might be something key to what a Shaman would need and could open up something new to how spell lists. What if the Shaman had a spell list that was primarily primal (made up of the essences of life and matter) that also allowed the spirit essence bleed into it for an expanded spell selection? Another alternative would be divine spellcasting with the addition of the matter essence. Either way, I don't think it would be a spell list to utilize the mind essence.
Additional advice: Recall Knowledge on creatures is not to be taken lightly. It is essentially a game legal method of metagaming for monster stats. Rangers have a highly valued feat path focused on this that doesn't even enable identification of all creatures with one skill until 10th level and that still requires active investment into Nature. The Thaumaturge gets that ability at 1st level and is their special thing that nobody but aforementioned Rangers should be getting. Most every other character should have to invest in multiple skills for anything close to this ability.
Esoteric Lore is a class feature unique to the Thaumaturge that is only obtainable by taking Thaumaturge as your primary class. The lore skill itself is inarguably linked to this class feature and requires houseruling to override the intended default. You might technically be able to take Additional Lore for "Esoteric Lore" but it should not function the same and is quite possibly too broad and vague to be a valid choice (like how Magic Lore would be far too broad vs Arcana and Occultism).
Same. I've been trying to replicate the Uda Wendo Medium (generally a similar concept I think) from PF1 and there's always a significant piece missing no matter how I go about it. I think I've settled on Warrior Bard with Druid MC though.
Got a question about one of the adept benefits of regalia, particularly the following part: "The circumstance bonus you gain to Deception, Diplomacy, and Intimidation increases to +2, as long as you have master proficiency in each skill." I'm pretty sure RAW that means each of those skills need to be at master to get the +2 bonus in any capacity, but not sure if that's RAI. Seems very restricting to require that much skill investment to gain what is a somewhat core feature of the class. Wondering what others think. (?) Update: Thought about it, and considering you get adept benefits at level 7, which is also the earliest you can start getting any skill to master, I'm strongly feeling like you just need a single one of those skills to be at master to get the +2 to that particular skill. Otherwise, by default, you're waiting until 13th level to get this particular benefit.
With Attack of Opportunity, yes, it does not disrupt move actions. Implement's Interruption on the other hand disrupts any action that triggered the reaction, move actions included, and standing is a move action. Thank you for pointing that out. Figures that rule is far off somewhere separate from AoO rules and such.
Spoiler: So, along with the "highlighted" text, my clue had 3 chemical formulas: C6H12O6, H2O and Au
As everyone knows H2O is water. Au is gold. And C6H12O6 is glucose (sugar). These formulas line up with page 53. H2O aligns with "water", Au with "golden coins" and C6H12O6 with "honey". I believe the significant highlighted phrase is: "It was at this point the helmsman began shedding clothing, like a moth emerging from its cocoon."
I received page 7 from this big puzzle. I've solved it already but I don't know how to utilize the spoiler function and I don't want to spoil it for anyone who is trying to solve all of them on their own. If someone can point out how to do the spoiler thing for me, I'll post everything else I have.[xSpoiler]the text you want to hide [x/spoilerx], with the X’s removed. There’s also the “How to format your text” guide at the bottom of the posting screen that shows you all the formatting tricks :> Thank you!
Wizard's either get an extra slot per spell level for their preferred school of magic or as a Universalist, they get an extra use of Drain Bonded Item per spell level.
With Attack of Opportunity, yes, it does not disrupt move actions. Implement's Interruption on the other hand disrupts any action that triggered the reaction, move actions included, and standing is a move action.
I'm sure a bunch of people are all into the Kineticist playtest right now. Just wanted to mention I've made a few updates, mainly to some multiclass opinions. Also wanted to see if anyone had any suggestions on other topics you think I should cover. Just a heads up, one I won't cover is ancestries. There are too many and they all have their own bunch of feats and it's just too much for me to want to handle, especially for such an open ended class as the Thaumaturge.
I've looked at the guides for Thaumaturge being written up, and they seem to suggest Oracle Dedication works well with a Thaumaturge, one even suggesting it's one of the best multiclasses a Thumaturge can take. Would going that route be better? Yeah, that was sorta my bad on the guide. Forgot about the Oracle's Curse still being a thing. I was pretty much just thinking about it being a better divine casting multiclass than the Cleric but yeah, divine Sorcerer is still probably loads better than Oracle. I'll make some corrections in the guide.
I'm surprised no one has brought up Weapon Improvisor yet.Most likely because they don't want to break their implements. ;) Nothing saying you have to take that particular feat and even if you need it to fill out free archetype, you could probably get your implements replaced with new versions made out of the proper materials to get their hardness above your level. Considering they are being used as weapons, it might be possible to even place weapon runes on them. Edit: Nevermind about getting those items up to an acceptable level of hardness. I didn't realize that even adamantine items peak at 17 hardness. Yeah, you'd probably have to skip that feat altogether, if that is an option.
Flanking with yourself (orthogonally, not diagonally) with a weapon implement means that stepping won't get them out of reaction range. It makes non-reach weapon implements a lot more effective. Ooo, that's a good and clever one. Thank you.
Scroll Esoterica says that your esoterica includes the scraps that you make into the scrolls. The feat is labeled esoterica because it's a feat to make temporary scrolls, and you can't make temporary scrolls if all your materials are confiscated.Wait....Idea....What if one hand is constantly holding an implement and ALL of your scrolls? Is there a limit on how many esoterica you can have in one hand? I really don't think this works but it's worth the shot of throwing it out there.As mentioned above, you would lose out on Implement's Empowerment bonus damage even if you get your GM to allow it. Fair enough. Sound argument.
Awesome! Thank you! But about this one:
These just don't seem like actual synergies for the implements. You don't need the weapon implement to flank with yourself if you already have the mirror and I don't think you can really double up on areas where your EV target can trigger Implement's Interruption. Like...if they're within reach, they're within reach. Although, they do combo nicely if you need to be somewhere else at the same time, so I'll give you that if that's what you meant.
Wait....Idea....What if one hand is constantly holding an implement and ALL of your scrolls? Is there a limit on how many esoterica you can have in one hand? I really don't think this works but it's worth the shot of throwing it out there.As mentioned above, you would lose out on Implement's Empowerment bonus damage even if you get your GM to allow it. "You don't gain the benefit of implement's empowerment if you are holding anything in either hand other than a single one-handed weapon, other implements, or esoterica, and you must be holding at least one implement to gain the benefit." I could be mistaken but between Scroll Thaumaturgy and Scroll Esoterica, don't scrolls count as esoterica (or at least the temporary scrolls)? If so, then it should still work. But yeah, overall my idea is reaching quite a lot.
Possibly, but spellstrike is still a cool option for tome that I hadn't thought of. Scroll striker could be used in conjunction with scroll esoterica too to get free scrolls.Ah, ok. I did not know that. I just assumed based on reading it literally. That pretty much makes this all pointless compared to all the other ways people have calculated high damage builds.Deadly dice do not count as weapon dice for calculations. Just the base amount of dice from your striking runes are counted.A pick will net you more damage. 9d10 > 8d6 +3d10. Plus the extra damage from pick specialization.Generally, yes. However, if you calculate the extra Implement's Empowerment and Gravity Weapon damage for the extra number of weapon dice the deadly weapon gives, you the deadly weapon edges out the fatal weapon (pick) though the pick is still on top for max damage by about the same amount. The difference between deadly and fatal starts to become a bit negligible with this detail. Fatal is probably easier to calculate as though.... Oh yes, of course, no question about it.
Deadly dice do not count as weapon dice for calculations. Just the base amount of dice from your striking runes are counted.A pick will net you more damage. 9d10 > 8d6 +3d10. Plus the extra damage from pick specialization.Generally, yes. However, if you calculate the extra Implement's Empowerment and Gravity Weapon damage for the extra number of weapon dice the deadly weapon gives, you the deadly weapon edges out the fatal weapon (pick) though the pick is still on top for max damage by about the same amount. The difference between deadly and fatal starts to become a bit negligible with this detail. Fatal is probably easier to calculate as though.... Ah, ok. I did not know that. I just assumed based on reading it literally. That pretty much makes this all pointless compared to all the other ways people have calculated high damage builds.
A pick will net you more damage. 9d10 > 8d6 +3d10. Plus the extra damage from pick specialization. Generally, yes. However, if you calculate the extra Implement's Empowerment and Gravity Weapon damage for the extra number of weapon dice the deadly weapon gives, you the deadly weapon edges out the fatal weapon (pick) though the pick is still on top for max damage by about the same amount. The difference between deadly and fatal starts to become a bit negligible with this detail. Fatal is probably easier to calculate as though....
Ok, so, I was throwing some numbers on a spreadsheet and just trying to push as much damage off the top of my head for a Thaumaturge. I am not assuming this is the highest damage you can get with any character or anything. Again, this is just using stuff I knew of already and didn't have to research deep into and I got some pretty crazy results. Just wanted to make sure my math was right and to see if anyone knows of anything that could push it further. This is all theoretical and assumes a perfect setup for a critical hit. These are the elected feats/abilities that contribute:
This is our gear and abilities contributing to damage: Strength (Maxed at 22 using STR Apex Item) = 6 (flat damage)
Alright, so the deadly d10 is what is going to make the math a bit tricky to formulate but here is what I have: (2*(Weapon Damage[4d6] + Strength[6] + Implement's Empowerment[8] + Greater Weapon Specialization[6] + Gravity Weapon[8] + Disintegrate[20d10]))+ Esoteric Vulnerability[12] + Implement's Empowerment[6] + Deadly d10[3d10] + Gravity Weapon[6] So, you might wonder why Implement's Empowerment and Gravity Weapon are calculated twice in the formula and in different locations. This is because they scale with weapon damage die, and since Deadly d10 is adding additional improved damage die AFTER doubling damage, these 2 need to be calculated again outside of the doubling. Alright, so after all that, here is the plug-and-chug numbers for the average and max damage: Average: (2*(14+6+8+6+8+110))+12+6+16.5+6 = 344.5 TOTAL
Esoterica are subject to quick swap because you have to draw them (and can hold them in the same hand as an implement) when you Exploit Vulnerability. Thus drawing esoterica requires no action. Same for a few feats with the esoterica trait. Could you quote the exact text you are referencing, please?
Upon first reading this, I kinda thought it might work like that too but I really don't think it does. It pretty much just keeps you from having to put away your implement to draw esoterica. I do not believe it counts esoterica as implements for the quick swap thing.
I think we won't see more because they tied a lot of the class into the lucky/mystical three and seven numbers. It's not a coincidence that nine implements is three times three.I'd considered that, though there are other lucky numbers as well that implements could be based on. Granted if they wanted to go to the next one, four by four, they'd have to make five new implements, which seems like a bit of a stretch, and seven sets of seven is ... I'm not sure what they'd even make for that many. I suppose there could also only be three more implements, which would be three multiplied by four, which can both be lucky numbers, which would make twelve which isn't lucky to my knowledge but does have some religious and occult significance. Nah, they should go all out. Three thrice three, three times. That's right! 27 implements total! MWAHAHAHA!!!
Would now, here be the best place to ask questions about Thaum? Anyway... does the initial benefit of Tome apply to Esoteric Lore? I'm looking to be really good at knowledge, I even chose Diverse Lore, and I'd like to confirm that, maybe I'll go Tome first and Regalia later, I want implements that give me the always-on buff. The bonus to Recall Knowledge DOES affect Esoteric Lore but ONLY for Recall Knowledge. It will NOT affect Exploit Vulnerability. I would personally suggest taking tome second to regalia for the reasoning I have in the guide under the tome implement.
That was the intended meaning but yes, I should clarify. Thank you.
I'd recommend you use color coding to rank various options like many guides do. Makes it easier to read. Love the effort put into this.I'll second this request. It makes guides much easier to read! How 'bout a compromise? I color feats as my favorites, things I find situational or build specific and everything else? An issue I don't like about typical color coding is I feel it sometimes influences people too strongly against what they WANT to play. Does that work for either of you?
I'm currently focusing on a build where I have both hands free and attack with a bite, the idea is to start with Wand and then take Regalia, (I don't know what to take as a third choice), I'm trying to convince my GM to allow an Occult Dragon,(BattleZoo), for the flavor, but my second choice will be an iruxi, d8 bite and the attributes work well with Thaumaturge. Oooo, yeah. Despite everyone going on about Kitsune Foxfire builds, I forgot about all the unarmed, non-hand attacks some ancestries get. Those can be very...."handy". I'll mention those under the brief section with skills, backgrounds and ancestries. Thank you.
Was hoping you would go in on some suggestions on how to supplement a Wand primary playstyle. Since the Wand is an attack implement that one can rely on as a main playstyle, that doesn't really benefit from a lot of the Thaumaturge's damage boosts. I am not aware of any way to really boost the wand's single target damage off the top of my head other than the regalia. I really don't think it is going to beat out the damage of 2 strikes with even a d4 weapon until it hits paragon and even then, it's only out damaging 2 strikes with overall damage, not single target damage. As I pointed out already, I think the real appeal is the debuffs and persistent damage it inflicts off a normal failure. The damage is still nice on top of those and it targets a basic reflex save, so it's going to do more damage on a successful save than a failed strike. Bringing up Cursed Effigy, maybe listing some ways to get physical attacks possibly at range, etc. I mean...use a ranged weapon...(?). It's already been explained that 1-handed weapons are prioritized and Ammunition Thaumaturgy was already explained so I don't know what more there needs to be said. Also I don't believe I saw any mention of Regalia's damage boost when you were talking about Regalia. And that was one of the few things I saw that actually did benefit the Wand if you can have both Implements out at the same time, such as with a natural attack build. Yes, I should definitely mention that as well. Forgot to add that as I missed it entirely on the first posting (and therefore my many passes before posting). Thank you.
- You actually mention the Sentinel archetype in the discussion of the Champion archetype, but you don't list it for itself. I only mentioned Sentinel in the Champion section as a method to get the most out of the heavy armor proficiency. On its own, I don't think it synergizes in any special way with the Thaumaturge to justify it as a standout archetype. I mentioned in the beginning of that section that I am skipping over any AP specific archetypes due to possible balance issues. - Problem with medic is that you have to have a free hand (or one filled with medical tools) to make Medicine checks, and it seems like Thaums would have more issues with free hands than most. (Meybe just some thaums?) Also, Medicine works particularly well with those builds that will occasionally find themselves with a third action that they don't otherwise know what to do with, and thaums are very much not that way. You've got a good point about that. I think I will cross it out or outright delete it due to the poor synergy you point out here. Thank you.
I wrote a guide for the Thaumaturge. Apologies for typos and minor misunderstandings of the rules. I'll try my best to keep it updated and correct any errors people find and add any suggestions I'm in favor of - I'm sure there will be plenty once more people get real play experience and after errata. I'll try my best to remember to give credit where it's due. Also, I believe VampByDay is putting out a guide soon as well so keep your eyes out for theirs as well.
Oh man, I hadn't even thought of that, even if you just eschew the Dedication and simply buy your own bombs this has the potential to be MASSIVELY powerful... I have research to do... I thought splash damage with Exploit Vulnerability was broken at first but at early levels it's going to eat up so many resources and by the time you have plenty of bombs, the damage doesn't make it worthwhile on its own. It's still a nice combo and nice effect (sort of negates having to ever take Twin Weakness) but the splash damage is nothing to rely or focus on from what I can tell.
First, whenever players run into a haunt and notice it, I confirm that this does look like a haunt, which means positive damage and religion checks are likely to help with it (generic meta knowledge), but there may be other, easier, more specific ways to deal with it. Oh yes, this too. The positive damage thing is another good bit of general meta-knowledge that should be safe to give away for a party's first experience with haunts.
I could see a free archetype setup though where you take Champion's Reaction and Healing touch to free up implement picks, but I'm not understanding why its a clear best pick This. AND Champion's Reaction can free up having to take the amulet AND you can get Attack of Opportunity and pass on the weapon implement at level 12. Yes, these won't be nearly as good as those implements when they are upgraded BUT you are still essentially getting abilities that are nearly identical to the initiate benefits of those implements. EDIT: Missed where you already mentioned Champion's Reaction. Still, if you don't want those implements beyond their initiate benefit, you can still effectively nab them with Champion MC.
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