Dark Archive Playtest: The Unknown Beckons

Let's get weird.

Let's get weird.

Dang it. I’d *just* gotten “Lets get loud” out of my head from watching Cinderella a couple weekends ago.

But yes, liking what I read so far.

Okay… here we go.
Welcome to the playtest, everyone! Try out the new classes and let us know what you think through the surveys—We're all here to put the psychic and thaumaturge through their paces and make the final versions the best they can be!

Awesome! Let's get into it!

Let's get weird.

I was already weird, so can I get wierder instead?

Very excited about these! I'm hoping I can find the time to do some playtesting.

Initial read-through, the Psychic looks like a pretty cool blaster-caster class. Thaumaturge feels a lot less versatile at first glance than Occultist did, which is disappointing. Between spells and implements it felt like the Occultist was a toolbox of solutions to problems. The Thaumaturge feels like a toolbox of ways to kill monsters. Almost like a mish-mash of 1e Slayer, 1e Inquisitor, and 2e Ranger. The talisman and scroll stuff offsets that a little, but they take feat investment.

Anyway, looking forward to trying them out!

I am always amazed at the new character options that keep coming out from Paizo. Well done with these cool ideas!

Looking forward to it!

Perfect timing, we're about to start a Malevolence game this weekend! Time to test out that ...oh no, which one do I choose they're both cool...

Let's get weird.

Looks like we'll need a DC 36 Arcane or Occult check to add that to our spellbook/familiar/whatever, along with 1,500 gold in raw materials and 9 hours in downtime.

...Oh, you meant the verb. Whoops. Guess things did get weird, now. (Better hope I succeed my Will Save.)

I'm looking forward to exploring the classes with all of you!

Cool! Hoping the Thaumaturge has some kineticist in its dna.

Hey where might someone find this playtest material (wink wink nudge nudge)

Would you consider extending the playtest to end on November 1st? I'm attending a convention that occurs on Halloween weekend.

Would you consider extending the playtest to end on November 1st? I'm attending a convention that occurs on Halloween weekend.

Psst, the secret is that we likely won't turn off the survey until Monday morning. So not officially, but it is manual and we want your feedback.

Cool! Hoping the Thaumaturge has some kineticist in its dna.

Hey where might someone find this playtest material (wink wink nudge nudge)

The “Get the playtest” at the end of the blog is a link.

eddv wrote:

Cool! Hoping the Thaumaturge has some kineticist in its dna.

Hey where might someone find this playtest material (wink wink nudge nudge)

The “Get the playtest” at the end of the blog is a link.

We have a new blog system that will have more obvious buttons and we are dying to use it. #soon

Cyrad wrote:

Would you consider extending the playtest to end on November 1st? I'm attending a convention that occurs on Halloween weekend.

Psst, the secret is that we likely won't turn off the survey until Monday morning. So not officially, but it is manual and we want your feedback.

I actually have turned it off on the listed end date in the past, which might be why they asked. But Aaron you make a really good point, so, in the way of the thaumaturge, quick someone use my weakness to compel me to leave it open!

But Aaron you make a really good point, so, in the way of the thaumaturge, quick someone use my weakness to compel me to leave it open!

I am brandishing a textbook on BASIC from 1987.

Alex Speidel wrote:

Let's get weird.

I was already weird, so can I get wierder instead?

I'm aiming to go straight to wierdest

Aaron Shanks wrote:

Cyrad wrote:

Would you consider extending the playtest to end on November 1st? I'm attending a convention that occurs on Halloween weekend.

Psst, the secret is that we likely won't turn off the survey until Monday morning. So not officially, but it is manual and we want your feedback.

I actually have turned it off on the listed end date in the past, which might be why they asked. But Aaron you make a really good point, so, in the way of the thaumaturge, quick someone use my weakness to compel me to leave it open!

Bah, here's his true weakness - *brandishes a copy of The C Programming Language

Mark Seifter wrote:

But Aaron you make a really good point, so, in the way of the thaumaturge, quick someone use my weakness to compel me to leave it open!

I am brandishing a textbook on BASIC from 1987.

Hmmm... I'll raise you a COBOL-85 textbook. ;)

I am brandishing a textbook on BASIC from 1987.

Bah, here's his true weakness - *brandishes a copy of The C Programming Language

Hmmm... I'll raise you a COBOL-85 textbook. ;)

The power of the compiler compels him!

AnimatedPaper wrote:

I am brandishing a textbook on BASIC from 1987.

The Fifth Wanderer wrote:

Bah, here's his true weakness - *brandishes a copy of The C Programming Language

graystone wrote:

Hmmm... I'll raise you a COBOL-85 textbook. ;)

The power of the compiler compels him!

Compiles him?

Hey a 2/3rd caster, the normal are 3 per spell level, but they have 2... so 2/3.

So I normally hate full casters… and I’m dying to play the Psychic. Well done.

I’m seeing a little bit of 4e (modifying your at-will abilities) and a little bit of 13th Age (powers kicking in several rounds into combat) in their design DNA, and it makes me /very/ happy.

Is the new Iconic Psychic a Vourinoi Elf? We know almost nothing about that culture, but after how great the Muaijae have gotten to be, I’m keen to meet their desert neighbors.

Is the new Iconic Psychic a Vourinoi Elf? We know almost nothing about that culture, but after how great the Muaijae have gotten to be, I’m keen to meet their desert neighbors.

Thaleon is indeed an elf, but we'll be holding onto the rest of the info on the iconics until later--this is just a sneak peek ^_^ !

Psychic seems nice, but I came here for the Thaumaturge. Gotta say, the class does seem flexible (especially considering available feats), though I am a little bummed that the most baseline stuff is about bonking things on the head - both Find Flaws and Esoteric Antithesis are simply about dishing out damage/getting the right source of damage. To my mind those could be optional feats, which would make space for something more... creative.

The implements are kinda cool as they play on various supernatural hunter characters - I can easily imagine John Constantine choosing the amulet (or the wand, but I think it'd be the amulet), the chalice is an obvious reference to classic occultism (and I like it!), wand seems like the most bland out of all of them, the weapon one makes you a Witcher, and my favorite - the Lantern - produces beautiful horror story potential.

Though, I must say, I'm not sure why I would choose the chalice. It's a glorified healing potion. Nothing money can't buy, while to me at least occult stories are literally about stuff that cannot or shouldn't be bought.

I love the concept behind the warding circle, though not sure about how useful it can be. You would probably want to use it against something dangerous (or a mass of weak creatures, in which case it's totally fine), but "something dangerous" will probably have higher CR than the Thaumaturge, so its Will should break the circle quite easily.
If I was playing this class (and I hope I will get to sometime), I would be seriously bummed if, after a minute of drawing while listening to the gruntles of the monster, after a full minute of describing how my character gets on his knees and starts drawin a triangle inside a triangle, inside a hexagon, filled with protective spells in long-forgotten languages of angels...
I would be bummed if after all this the monster would instantly cross the border by rolling a 5 on the die, still beating my circle, as it's a mini-boss. Why did we sneak around it, why did I choose to spend the last minute on this, why all the effort? I could've spent that time on buffing from scrolls to get those sweet bonuses.

Imagining that, I'm not sure why I would choose this over the always useful option - Pact of Fey Glamour.

Wouldn't it be more enticing if the DC to cross was at least class DC +2 on its first attempt, DC +0 on the second, and maybe DC -2 on the third attempt, to keep it in line with the well-known Rule of Three and give the circle a higher chance of actually working, weakening with repeated attempts?

Or am I missing something? I am a fan of everything narration-oriented, so it always saddens me when I can see that more damage/overall utility/mechanics-focused stuff is simply a better choice. I might be biased though.

I also love the design of Rule of Three, though I wish it also gave bonuses to maneuvers and spellcasting, should the Thaumaturge also have such a capability. Gotta say, +x to attack is the most boring kind of bonus - a necessary one, but come on - would it really be so op if it also helped casting and attempts on tripping, grappling, etc? Wouldn't it be immensely enticing to see a caster starting each round with a voiced intent of banishing a creature, and casting a spell on round three, sending the conjured creature back to its plane thanks to that bonus specifically?
Wouldn't it be nice to see an Athletics expert tripping and pinning the creature to the ground while uttering those intent-driven echantments on it?
To me at least those two are equally as baddass as striking the creature... If not more badass.

Frankly, as much as I love PF2e, this kind of reservations applies to many mechanics of the game - Marshall's buffs for allies affect only attack rolls, flat-footed enemies don't have any penalties to Reflex saves, stuff like that. If the Thaumaturge could blaze the trail towards helping more creative stuff than simply attacking happen, I would be on cloud nine!

Despite the very theoretical and not really data-driven criticism (obviously didn't get to testing this stuff in-game yet), I am thankful to see that both classes ooze just the right vibe!

The Psychic almost has little bit of a blastery warlock feel to it and a couple of the Thaumaturge class abilities and their themes are making me think of the kind of things I would have liked to see in a Shaman class.

Quick note: the Psychic seems to be missing Expert Perception.

Could we please get input as to when they're meant to get it?

im loving both of these classes so far, my biggest concern is just Psychics being so squishy and having so few spell slots in exchange for more cantrips which doesn't feel like a fair trade off, especially when compared to witch, wizard or sorcerer who either have extra spell slots or other stuff to help compensate, and I'm not sure if amped cantrips are *quite* on the same level, especially since they don't get Deepest Wellspring as part of their class like how Oracle gets all their focus spell regeneration feats as features.

Otherwise these classes look lovely!

I’m loving Psychic, but I am worried they feel undertuned - here’s hoping they follow the usual playtest arc and get some love in the final release.

I’m loving Psychic, but I am worried they feel undertuned - here’s hoping they follow the usual playtest arc and get some love in the final release.

Honestly I think the best practice for playtests is to start a little undertuned - when things start overturned they sometimes get nerfed a bit too hard, resulting in an undertuned final result.

Have only done a quick read of the Psychic and I love it so far.

James I know you are saving more about the iconics but could you answer one more question?

Is Mios Enby? My Trans friend noticed their blurb only used they not he and made the joke that Mios has "No gender, only stuff" in reference to the massive ammount of gear they have on them.

Mios is non-binary, yes.

*excited occult noises*

One small thing I do want to remark on: Psychic is our second class that grants Access to characters from Numeria; I’d love for a trip there in 2e.

I’m also quite fond of the tie between elves and Castrovel remarked on - another place I’m eager to visit! Lashunta are probably top of the Ancestries I’m missing from 1e at this point, and I think that you can get some delicious gonzo fantasy out of a lush world full of elves, psychics, and bug aliens.

Is Mios Enby? My Trans friend noticed their blurb only used they not he and made the joke that Mios has "No gender, only stuff" in reference to the massive ammount of gear they have on them.

In preparation to share this joke with my partner, I directed her to check out Mios' artwork, which prompted her to ask "you mean the person dressed like Howl's room was decorated?"

Have only done a quick read of the Psychic and I love it so far.

James I know you are saving more about the iconics but could you answer one more question?

Is Mios Enby? My Trans friend noticed their blurb only used they not he and made the joke that Mios has "No gender, only stuff" in reference to the massive ammount of gear they have on them.

Confirmed to be non-binary, I believe.

Nicolas Paradise wrote:

Have only done a quick read of the Psychic and I love it so far.

James I know you are saving more about the iconics but could you answer one more question?

Is Mios Enby? My Trans friend noticed their blurb only used they not he and made the joke that Mios has "No gender, only stuff" in reference to the massive ammount of gear they have on them.

Confirmed to be non-binary, I believe.

And also confirmed by Avi K. that their left leg has a brace on it, so also representation for mobility aids as well!

I'm excited for the new classes, but I am a little sad that Rivani isn't the iconic Psychic anymore.

I'm excited for the new classes, but I am a little sad that Rivani isn't the iconic Psychic anymore.

I can't claim to have known much about her, but it is a shame to lose one of the few prominent Vudrani characters we've had.

Rivani was really cool, so hopefully the new iconic also is.

... I have a player who's NB and 'monster hunter covered in esoteric tools' is their favorite character archetype so that they've been really vibing really hard with the thaumaturge though.

I am thinking we should see what we get when we assemble the ex-iconics into a single party. I think we have enough of them to seriously threaten a party of new or current iconics.

I am thinking we should see what we get when we assemble the ex-iconics into a single party. I think we have enough of them to seriously threaten a party of new or current iconics.

Hmm...

Alchemist
Warpriest
Oracle
Summoner
Gunslinger
Psychic

and maybe the following, too...

Cavalier
Vigilante
Arcanist
Occultist

Paul Watson wrote:

eddv wrote:

Cool! Hoping the Thaumaturge has some kineticist in its dna.

Hey where might someone find this playtest material (wink wink nudge nudge)

The “Get the playtest” at the end of the blog is a link.

We have a new blog system that will have more obvious buttons and we are dying to use it. #soon

Where?

Ooooooh, my fave country has an Iconic now! And not just any iconic, but a non-binary Iconic!

Welp, I am deceased from sheer joy at all the wonderful announcements today.

Have only done a quick read of the Psychic and I love it so far.

James I know you are saving more about the iconics but could you answer one more question?

Is Mios Enby? My Trans friend noticed their blurb only used they not he and made the joke that Mios has "No gender, only stuff" in reference to the massive ammount of gear they have on them.

They are!

I will miss having an iconic for rotund people.

I will miss having an iconic for rotund people.

I think they might be rotund, though it's hard to tell under the jacket and with the accoutrements. Of course, that's why many of us rotund people dress in relatively baggy clothes, so...