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What a wonderful book!

It really puts magic back into magic, and not only when it comes to spellcasting. Listing my favorite things would be quite spoilerous, but please just know that I appreciate this approach to things like curses, beasts, feats, and everything else greatly.

This is the best book for Pathfinder, including all books for 1st edition, period. At least to my mind. Well done, wonderful job.

And those adventures - frankly, these are better than some (many?) standalone modules and AP chapters. There, I said it. Even the first one is already more complex, interesting and immersive, than most of "avoid traps and then kill them all" adventures.

The layout is really cool, but, even though at first I liked the idea, putting adventures and other spoilerey things (curses?) in the middle of the book is not very practical. I'd love to maybe try and cut some pages from the pdf and then show it to my players to let them see if there's something they'd like to use, and it would be much easier if all those things were compiled at the end of the book. I do think that more theme-focused approach to layout is cool, and I like it as well when I make stuff, but maybe just putting a simple blurb of an adventure at the end of each chapter with a reference to the page in the GM's part would be enough?

And, very last thing - I am all for including such short and "simple" adventures in literally every supplement. Please keep doing that. BUT, would it be possible to supplement them with a compilation of layered maps, like APs? Those maps are gorgeous (again - better than some AP maps), but I really hate to have immersion-breaking notes put on my maps in Foundry.
Quite frankly, in this day and age, the best thing to do would be probably to include a pack of high-resolution png files of the maps. People who like to print them could still do that, while VTT users would appreciate that.

Overall, this book is an absolute steal and almost a golden standard for how RPG supplements should look like. It's wonderful. It's completely my jam. And including short adventures using themes presented should become a standard not only for Paizo, but the whole industry.

Keep it up! I'm glad I'm playing Pathfinder 2e!


Am I daft or something?
I can't even add the pdf to the cart - I vaguely remember that you just need to click on "PDF available", but it's simply not clickable.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Still hoping that the rule of three thaumaturge feat starts affecting DCs and/or magic attacks in some way. I truly couldn't comprehend why wouldn't it affect those - it's not only thematic, but would also allow for more playstyles and possible dedication uses.

I absolutely would get thaumaturge dedication for a Witch to get the rule of three and cast the most important spell on the third round.


Gotta say, the class does seem flexible (especially considering available feats), though I am a little bummed that the most baseline stuff is about bonking things on the head - both Find Flaws and Esoteric Antithesis are simply about dishing out damage/getting the right source of damage. To my mind those could be optional feats, which would make space for something more... creative.

The implements are kinda cool as they play on various supernatural hunter characters - I can easily imagine John Constantine choosing the amulet (or the wand, but I think it'd be the amulet), the chalice is an obvious reference to classic occultism (and I like it!), wand seems like the most bland out of all of them, the weapon one makes you a Witcher, and my favorite - the Lantern - produces beautiful horror story potential.

Though, I must say, I'm not sure why I would choose the chalice. It's a glorified healing potion. Nothing money can't buy, while to me at least occult stories are literally about stuff that cannot or shouldn't be bought.

I love the concept behind the warding circle, though not sure about how useful it can be. You would probably want to use it against something dangerous (or a mass of weak creatures, in which case it's totally fine), but "something dangerous" will probably have higher CR than the Thaumaturge, so its Will should break the circle quite easily.
If I was playing this class (and I hope I will get to sometime), I would be seriously bummed if, after a minute of drawing while listening to the gruntles of the monster, after a full minute of describing how my character gets on his knees and starts drawin a triangle inside a triangle, inside a hexagon, filled with protective spells in long-forgotten languages of angels...
I would be bummed if after all this the monster would instantly cross the border by rolling a 5 on the die, still beating my circle, as it's a mini-boss. Why did we sneak around it, why did I choose to spend the last minute on this, why all the effort? I could've spent that time on buffing from scrolls to get those sweet bonuses.

Imagining that, I'm not sure why I would choose this over the always useful option - Pact of Fey Glamour.

Wouldn't it be more enticing if the DC to cross was at least class DC +2 on its first attempt, DC +0 on the second, and maybe DC -2 on the third attempt, to keep it in line with the well-known Rule of Three and give the circle a higher chance of actually working, weakening with repeated attempts?

Or am I missing something? I am a fan of everything narration-oriented, so it always saddens me when I can see that more damage/overall utility/mechanics-focused stuff is simply a better choice. I might be biased though.

I also love the design of Rule of Three, though I wish it also gave bonuses to maneuvers and spellcasting, should the Thaumaturge also have such a capability. Gotta say, +x to attack is the most boring kind of bonus - a necessary one, but come on - would it really be so op if it also helped casting and attempts on tripping, grappling, etc? Wouldn't it be immensely enticing to see a caster starting each round with a voiced intent of banishing a creature, and casting a spell on round three, sending the conjured creature back to its plane thanks to that bonus specifically?
Wouldn't it be nice to see an Athletics expert tripping and pinning the creature to the ground while uttering those intent-driven echantments on it?
To me at least those two are equally as baddass as striking the creature... If not more badass.

Frankly, as much as I love PF2e, this kind of reservations applies to many mechanics of the game - Marshall's buffs for allies affect only attack rolls, flat-footed enemies don't have any penalties to Reflex saves, stuff like that. If the Thaumaturge could blaze the trail towards helping more creative stuff than simply attacking happen, I would be on cloud nine!

Despite the very theoretical and not really data-driven criticism (obviously didn't get to testing this stuff in-game yet), I am thankful to see that both classes ooze just the right vibe!


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Psychic seems nice, but I came here for the Thaumaturge. Gotta say, the class does seem flexible (especially considering available feats), though I am a little bummed that the most baseline stuff is about bonking things on the head - both Find Flaws and Esoteric Antithesis are simply about dishing out damage/getting the right source of damage. To my mind those could be optional feats, which would make space for something more... creative.

The implements are kinda cool as they play on various supernatural hunter characters - I can easily imagine John Constantine choosing the amulet (or the wand, but I think it'd be the amulet), the chalice is an obvious reference to classic occultism (and I like it!), wand seems like the most bland out of all of them, the weapon one makes you a Witcher, and my favorite - the Lantern - produces beautiful horror story potential.

Though, I must say, I'm not sure why I would choose the chalice. It's a glorified healing potion. Nothing money can't buy, while to me at least occult stories are literally about stuff that cannot or shouldn't be bought.

I love the concept behind the warding circle, though not sure about how useful it can be. You would probably want to use it against something dangerous (or a mass of weak creatures, in which case it's totally fine), but "something dangerous" will probably have higher CR than the Thaumaturge, so its Will should break the circle quite easily.
If I was playing this class (and I hope I will get to sometime), I would be seriously bummed if, after a minute of drawing while listening to the gruntles of the monster, after a full minute of describing how my character gets on his knees and starts drawin a triangle inside a triangle, inside a hexagon, filled with protective spells in long-forgotten languages of angels...
I would be bummed if after all this the monster would instantly cross the border by rolling a 5 on the die, still beating my circle, as it's a mini-boss. Why did we sneak around it, why did I choose to spend the last minute on this, why all the effort? I could've spent that time on buffing from scrolls to get those sweet bonuses.

Imagining that, I'm not sure why I would choose this over the always useful option - Pact of Fey Glamour.

Wouldn't it be more enticing if the DC to cross was at least class DC +2 on its first attempt, DC +0 on the second, and maybe DC -2 on the third attempt, to keep it in line with the well-known Rule of Three and give the circle a higher chance of actually working, weakening with repeated attempts?

Or am I missing something? I am a fan of everything narration-oriented, so it always saddens me when I can see that more damage/overall utility/mechanics-focused stuff is simply a better choice. I might be biased though.

I also love the design of Rule of Three, though I wish it also gave bonuses to maneuvers and spellcasting, should the Thaumaturge also have such a capability. Gotta say, +x to attack is the most boring kind of bonus - a necessary one, but come on - would it really be so op if it also helped casting and attempts on tripping, grappling, etc? Wouldn't it be immensely enticing to see a caster starting each round with a voiced intent of banishing a creature, and casting a spell on round three, sending the conjured creature back to its plane thanks to that bonus specifically?
Wouldn't it be nice to see an Athletics expert tripping and pinning the creature to the ground while uttering those intent-driven echantments on it?
To me at least those two are equally as baddass as striking the creature... If not more badass.

Frankly, as much as I love PF2e, this kind of reservations applies to many mechanics of the game - Marshall's buffs for allies affect only attack rolls, flat-footed enemies don't have any penalties to Reflex saves, stuff like that. If the Thaumaturge could blaze the trail towards helping more creative stuff than simply attacking happen, I would be on cloud nine!

Despite the very theoretical and not really data-driven criticism (obviously didn't get to testing this stuff in-game yet), I am thankful to see that both classes ooze just the right vibe!