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Goblin Squad Member. Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber. Organized Play Member. 3,235 posts. No reviews. 29 lists. 1 wishlist. 3 Organized Play characters. 1 alias.


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MF,

You may find some additional answers on the Playtest page.


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Thanks for the HUGE update, Jason and crew!


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Thank you for sharing! I LOVE the mood lighting!!


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Looking forward to it! LOVE that artwork


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I've been enjoying the game, though I have not made it to the kingdom stage. Looking forward to it!


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Rob Godfrey wrote:
now Golarion feels like a low fantasy setting, and 'mage kings' no longer make sense, they simply are not powerful enough...[...] Not saying I'm not having fun, but it is the fun of the grittier, more deadly game, which wasn't what Golarion was about, it was heroic high fantasy, it no longer feels like that.

Rob, not specifically calling you out, just using what you said as the example. I've heard folks talking like this lately, and I feel compelled to speak. =)

From the beginning days of Golarion, I ALWAYS thought it was supposed to be a grittier place. From where I stand, it was never intended to have the feel of the Forgotten Realms. Lovecraft is writ large all over the place ... distinctly NOT high fantasy.

I'm not saying that you cannot play high fantasy in Golarion, in fact many do, but I think it is incorrect to say that Golarion was intended to be high fantasy, and now PF2 seems to be moving the setting to a grittier place. Golarion was always a grittier place.

Of course, that is not stopping anyone from playing it High Fantasy, or anywhere in between.


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Thanks for the post, Jason.

Jason Buhlman wrote:
[...] here are our primary goals for the playtest.

"Goals" - end points, what they are striving to do.


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Friday's Twitch broadcast implied that the designers are looking at this this, and the current iteration is probably the top end. We will likely see a tweak to Treat Wounds that brings it down a bit in a coming update.


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Some really cool ideas in this book, and the art is great.


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Thank you for the updates!


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Thank you for the update!


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LOVING it so far!!!


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Thank you for the update!


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Thanks for posting the summary Joe M.!!


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Thank you sharing again!! I really enjoy your approach to the game and your willingness to share your experiences. Party on!


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Kevin Mack wrote:

Maybe this will help?

Insight into Paizo's choice of mechanics to playtest

Thanks for posting!


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BobROE wrote:
Quote:
Magnuskn provides a great example, because we don't know the reason the power floor of pure casters was dropped its hard for us to brainstorm viable alternatives, we don't know more than a general mission statement.

But the goal of a playtest is not to get the fanbase to brainstorm alternatives.

Its to provide data and feedback on the systems that have been designed.

The design team then uses that data to make decisions/changes.

Spot on.

With that said, I am certain that Paizo appreciates the brainstorming on alternatives. But design by committee, where "committee" is the internet was never the goal.


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Data Lore wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Thanks for the feedback and analysis! The corollary, though, is that we have to provide enough feat options to cover the things each class wants to do in its stereotypical concepts, as you suggest. A decent part of the push for removing gates (or certain gates) comes from several missing niches in certain classes in particular (archer paladins, for example), so with the added pages we'll get in the final book, if we don't paradigm shift, we will definitely need to come up with some awesome feats to fill these niches.

I strongly like the approach of gated feats (to ensure varied builds and niche protection) while also ensuring each class gets a decent and varied menu of options (to ensure various concepts can be modeled).

You guys are doing great work. I am really enjoying this game thus far.

That is pretty much where I stand on the subject.


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gwynfrid wrote:
John Lynch 106 wrote:
We've been asking the first question since day 1. Still haven't gotten an answer. I don't expect this thread to be any different.

The answer is found in the introduction text, page 4 of the playtest book. Specifically, this sentence: "Our aim is to make the game easier to learn and simpler to play, while maintaining the depth of character and adventure options that has always defined Pathfinder."

You may disagree with this goal, or even second-guess Paizo's statement of their motives, if you want. But you can't say this question hasn't received an answer.

Shaheer-El-Khatib wrote:
John Lynch 106 wrote:
We've been asking the first question since day 1. Still haven't gotten an answer. I don't expect this thread to be any different.

You got an answer in the last blog.

" But it's equally important to the data collection process that playtesters not know what those goals actually are until the test is over, since to do so any other way would bias the results."

The specific goals of the playtest are hidden so that players don't play with them in mind and thus skew the outcome. This isn't the same thing as the goals of 2nd Edition, which are stated pretty clearly.

Exactly. Well stated. Thank you saying this.

Every time I've seen a thread like this, I find myself pointing at the playtest doc, all of the blogs, interviews and twitch videos, and then stumble away grumbling.


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Cannot wait to play!


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Thank you posting the summary!


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Too cool! Thank you for sharing!


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Xain wrote:
Oh and I just realized, I'm about to start a Kingmaker campaign. I had been using the PRD to brush up on the kingdom building rules. Where are these rules on aon? Oh that's right, they aren't there and in another campaign we're nearing the end of chapter 2 of Wrath of the Righteous. Where are the mass combat rules? Nope not on aon. Guess it's over to the unofficial d20pfsrd. Sure the post at aon says they are working on bringing in rules and I have no doubt they will, but how soon, and will they be as well organized?

The book you want is Ultimate Campaign. I also suggest Legendary Games supplements on these topics.


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Love AoN! Congrats pn the partnership!


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This sounds cool!


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Oh man!!! I absolutely need to scrounge up $30!!! *looks in the couch*


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Steve Geddes wrote:
neaven wrote:
There's no use case that I can work out. If people want an easy to pick up or easy to run RPG they'll play 5e. If they want character customisation, they'll run PF1e. PF2 does ease-of-use worse than 5e and character customisation worse than 1e, so why run it over either of those games at this point?

Whether there's an easily identifiable market for it yet or not, Paizo need to move forward not backwards because sales of PF1 are declining and they see the writing on the wall. At the moment, the company is doing fine thanks to Starfinder sales (currently outselling Pathfinder by the best measure we have) but just hanging around waiting until they have a serious financial problem isn't viable.

No matter how much we like PF1 (I'm firmly in the camp that would have preferred they stick with it) there's no denying the fact that the market has changed from the days when 4E and PF1 were launching. I suspect Game Design Theory has also moved on and that the paizo design team are keen to try elements/subsystems which are incompatible with a base structure designed twenty years ago.

Paizo have to respond to that shift in the market and producing something as complicated and scary to non-Pathfinder players as PF1 is is probably not going to generate them enough revenue.

Quote:

Its not like it strikes a good balance, with clunky "mode" rules for out-of-combat and in-combat seperation and class siloing (which has been partially addressed by the removal of signature skills)

Hell, for ease of pickup and character customization, I'd recommend 13th Age as doing what PF2 thinks it's doing.

And that's assuming you specifically want a class-and-level based fantasy RPG. If you want anything else you're probably going to be looking elsewhere in the first place.

The playtest isn't PF2. They specifically said they were going to through in the most contentious, most radically different, most likely to be changed systems into PF2.

Nobody is putting forth a half-completed game as...

What Steve said :)


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Howard197 wrote:
Swiftbrook wrote:
"Stephen Radney-MacFarland wrote:
Case in point—let's talk about Resonance Points. Yeah, that's right. I'm going there.

Thank You!

"Stephen Radney-MacFarland wrote:
A big issue is that a lot of folks just plain don't like Resonance Points.

+1! Resonance may attempt to solve perceived problems, but I still don't like it. It's confusing. It's not how magic is suppose to work. It's not fun!

"Stephen Radney-MacFarland wrote:
Designers, by nature, want you to use the items they created in actual play. But adventure designers are often under budgetary constraints to make not the best item for the story, but the one that does the trick while still conforming to the amount of treasure output in the design guides.

This is my main problem with all of Pathfinder Playtest, not just Resonance Points, and this is the first time I've seen it in print. Pathfinder Playtest is all mainly about making it easier for designers to create products, not about making it more fun for players to play the game. You're creating a 'balanced is boring' game. The PCs don't feel heroic, then seem balanced and common.

The Playtest has some good stuff - OK some very good stuff. I love the three action rules, they really make sense.

But in the end, I just hope you scrap Resonance Points. The negatives and negative consequences far out weigh the perceived positives. It's not worth it.

I totally agree on putting designers above players. It's why the biggest problem for me isn't Resonance, it's the Common/Uncommon/Rare system.

If the reason for your agreement is the Common/Uncommon/Rare classification system, then I could not disagree with you more.

I see that classification system as a valuable feature for DMing.


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Cannot wait!!


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Zautos' wrote:
Do anyone think that it's a good thing to always need a cleric or other healing focused class in the party?

Yes. In fact, that is part of the bedrock of DnD. If it isn't balanced to have the 4 main archetypes of which one is healing, hard to see how it is DnD.

With that said, there are ways to "fill" the healing archetype, as PF1 has shown, but even still the foundational 4 archetypes of the whole system include healing.


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OP: Couldn’t you just swap the feats, as long as they are in the same level range you would be good to go?

The way I see it is that the monster rules have actually become easier and less opaque. I hope they keep this approach for us beleaguered DMs, and also offer something rescriptive system for those that want to spend a bunch of time on those sorts of things.


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Woot!!


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Thanks for the update!

As a side note, watching the Twith video was useful as it provided additional context. If you are there live ypu can also ask questions. I suggest it for anyone interested in the Playtest.


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Thank you for the update and gift!


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Thank you (again) for sharing your dedication and creativity! I truly appreciate the positive and respectful nature you all take to the game. A great example for folks that play this awesome game of ours.


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Steve Geddes wrote:
I’m guessing most of you had a vile week. Thanks very much for doing all that to keep us connected. The community is one of the best things about Paizo and without you folk it wouldn’t be possible.

As always, well said Steve.


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Thank you for everything Sharaya! Good luck with the next chapter!


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Great idea!


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Thank you for sharing!


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I have never in my 30 years of playing DnD given the rulebook to a new player and said, “Make a character.” One always learned from an experienced player.

The rulebook has always been a reference book, first. Now I do think there needs to be a way to bring in the new player, but making a reference book, into something like the Beginner Box, while a nice idea, is one goal too many methinks.


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Well said, Jeff.


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Then there is the grandfather of modern gamer types, the Bartle Test. I also suggest checking on Koster’s Theory of Fun book(his website is a treasure trove of game theory btw).


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Thank you for sharing Endz!! I look forward to this list every year :)


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Yep! Agreed. Thankfully we have them now, and if I wasn't playing virtually all of the time, I would probably print them out and put them in my hardcopy of the ACG *grins*


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Basically, I consider Legendary Games' PF supplements to be part of the Core rules.


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bugleyman wrote:

I can see making the case that a given class feat might really belong in the general feat pool. But the implicit argument being made here -- something that wasn't "class-locked" in 1E becoming so in 2E is inherently problematic -- is specious.

The system is class-based for a reason.

Finally, "locked" is a bit of an overstatement given the class dedication feats.

Pretty much what I was thinking.


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Davor wrote:
To the question: "Why should I make the move to PF2?", the answer is: You shouldn't. The game isn't even out yet. Heck, they just started their open playtest! If you're interested in influencing development and providing feedback on the current state of the game, then you should give it a shot, but I wouldn't hard switch to a new system that isn't even finished yet.

Exactly what I was thinking.


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Thanks for reasonable first impression, B. Paizo's livelihood depends on getting this right, so I feel pretty confident that they will do what they need to do to find the sweet spot.

Side note, given some of the posts in these forums, perhaps Paizo should alienate some of them. *coughs*


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Just received mine in Boston! I have to say, this is a great looking product and it is "just" the Playtest! Wow! Big time kudos!


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Marco Massoudi wrote:

Vic Wertz, you are incredible!

I hope you get to live a hundred years in the best possible health.

There are not many people who handle issues like this in such a great manner - and that on a free weekend too.

If i'll ever meet you, i'll buy you a drink. :-)

My thanks to all the other people involved too (like the guys handing out the store credit and the people who made sure that the downloads worked so well and such).

Gen Con is always a tense time and i fear next year will be no exception.

The good thing is, the playtest wasn't only a test about the rules, but also about the shipping of the (physical) rules, so when PF 2.0 ships in august 2019, the process should hopefully run more smoothly.

Well said, Marco! I COMPLETELY agree, and will gladly join in buying drinks for Mr. Wertz.

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