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Mentally preparing for a combined storm of Nerdlove and Nerdrage coming next Monday.
Preparing for the flood of questions and comments coming from those that get it early that I'll have no idea about as I'm not getting it to the actual street date.
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The multi-week wait feels real bad for me because I have to budget for the 20 usd book, if I wanted even just the print version it'd be just over 90 USD (because shipping to australia) so that'd be a good amount of saving up for me that I could not justify/risk using the subscription for which ends up making me feel like I'm getting punished for being poor and internationalMentally preparing for a combined storm of Nerdlove and Nerdrage coming next monday.Everything about the shipping and release of highly anticipated books and the subscription system has always left a lot to be desired.
Subscriptions and digital pre-orders should really just have the PDF released on the first day of shipping for everyone. Remove the potentially 3 week+ swing in delivery of digital products.
Yeah, us non-US subscribers are generally getting a bad deal. With things like shipping costing more than the book itself and prolonged release times for the digital assets, there really should be a switch up.
So far, however, the official answer has been that subscriptions are not a product intended for all customers. So I guess there's that.
Naturally, shipping is outside of Paizo's hands after a certain point. A standardised digital release day on the first day of shipping would at least unify the Paizo customer experience, within the bounds of what Paizo can actually control.
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agreed with old man robot
the pdf should drop the day the first shippings arrive, the final stretch of the waiting feels always bad and if others can already enjoy their stuff it makes things worse
that being said, this is the kineticist hype thread and not the shipping gloom thread
I am after some shortlasting scepticism very hyped again and cant wait to see what the class will deliver - also the dual class potential as that is one of my tables favourite optional rules
It looks like barbarian will still be the one class left out in the rain with dual classing though :P
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The reason it can't is owing to the rules Paizo has to follow from their payment services provider. They can't charge until they ship. And they think the risk of orders being cancelled once the pdf is provided but before charge is too high to take.
So, if they standardised pdf release, it would likely be to the end of the shipping period or release day itself, which would cause even more problems with satisfaction.
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The reason it can't is owing to the rules Paizo has to follow from their payment services provider. They can't charge until they ship. And they think the risk of orders being cancelled once the pdf is provided but before charge is too high to take.
So, if they standardised pdf release, it would likely be to the end of the shipping period or release day itself, which would cause even more problems with satisfaction.
Other companies solve issues like this all the time. Its not exactly a big deal.
The real issue is that its not worth it for Paizo to make the necessary changes to solve it. They have a solution in place, it works, it doesn't look to be costing them any sales, and so there is no incentive or reason to go about what could be a costly or disruptive change. Especially when the core issue is only a "feels bad" element in part of their customer base.
Its sucks for those impacted, but ultimately I still subscribe even though I receive a worse service at a higher cost than an US customer.
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agreed with old man robot
the pdf should drop the day the first shippings arrive, the final stretch of the waiting feels always bad and if others can already enjoy their stuff it makes things worse
that being said, this is the kineticist hype thread and not the shipping gloom thread
I am after some shortlasting scepticism very hyped again and cant wait to see what the class will deliver - also the dual class potential as that is one of my tables favourite optional rules
It looks like barbarian will still be the one class left out in the rain with dual classing though :P
Why do you feel barb will be left out in the rain? I think there's a lot of opportunity here, since con as a secondary stat works pretty well with Barb. I'm equally certain that a 10' aura will work very well on a primarily melee character somewhere in there...
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Why do you feel barb will be left out in the rain? I think there's a lot of opportunity here, since con as a secondary stat works pretty well with Barb. I'm equally certain that a 10' aura will work very well on a primarily melee character somewhere in there...agreed with old man robot
the pdf should drop the day the first shippings arrive, the final stretch of the waiting feels always bad and if others can already enjoy their stuff it makes things worse
that being said, this is the kineticist hype thread and not the shipping gloom thread
I am after some shortlasting scepticism very hyped again and cant wait to see what the class will deliver - also the dual class potential as that is one of my tables favourite optional rules
It looks like barbarian will still be the one class left out in the rain with dual classing though :P
I'm thinking there will be real synergy as well. I double checked what we know so far and none of the blasts or impulses we've seen so far have the "concentrate" trait and thus should work just fine while raging.
While the extra damage from rage itself won't likely apply (blasts/impulses are not weapon or unarmed attacks), grabbing some of these auras and/or impulses could be amazing for a barbarian and give them another form of damage/control/utility they wouldn't otherwise have access to due to so many similar options from other dedications/classes having the "concentrate" trait.
Granted, we don't know what the Kineticist Dedication looks like yet, but I'm thinking that it can be one of the best barbarian options out there from the looks of it so far.
Why do you feel barb will be left out in the rain? I think there's a lot of opportunity here, since con as a secondary stat works pretty well with Barb. I'm equally certain that a 10' aura will work very well on a primarily melee character somewhere in there...
If impulses are inherently Concentrate (which seems likely) then it's suddenly very barb-unfriendly.
This gets added to basically every caster class (same reason), rogues/swashbucklers (barbarian not great with agile), investigators (both problems), Gunslinger (complete disconnect)
Fighters work, because of course they do. Champions basically work. Inventors, Thaumaturges, and certain kinds of Rangers could be okay, though taking two orders of "extra action costs at the beginning of the fight" isn't great, and the Thaumaturges lose out on Intensify Vulnerability and can't take Wand. There are ways to make Monk/Barb work pretty well. Alchemists... mostly work? Throw-barbs are a niche build for a reason. I did the math, and there *are* some synergies there, but they're not as easy to leverage as they feel like they should be. Still, they can be pretty good decent, if you already like what Alchemist has to offer.
There are currently 21 classes that are not Barbarian. Of those 21 potential combos, two (Fighter/Champion) basically work, and five (Monk/Thaumaturge/Ranger/Alchemist/Inventor) can be pretty much made to work if you jigger it around right. The remaining 14 have clear antisynergies.
I can understand why someoen who was a Barbarian fan in a group that liked going dual class might not be excited to see that number going to 15.
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FYI, DC/blast attack progression is the same as caster progression, and earth/metal reportedly have an early impulse that grants medium armor. I'm guess it's level 1 and a single action to activate.
If impulses are inherently Concentrate (which seems likely) then it's suddenly very barb-unfriendly.
They're stripping out imbedded traits like concentrate from spells, that's why verbal/manipulate are going away in ORC/remaster products. This is the first ORC rulebook, so I assume it's following the same and impulses won't have concentrate.
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Why do you feel barb will be left out in the rain? I think there's a lot of opportunity here, since con as a secondary stat works pretty well with Barb. I'm equally certain that a 10' aura will work very well on a primarily melee character somewhere in there...If impulses are inherently Concentrate (which seems likely) then it's suddenly very barb-unfriendly.
As mentioned in the post just above yours, I checked and so far none of the blasts, impulses, or gather element actions have the "concentrate" trait. Since they aren't doing embedded traits anymore, then that means they are VERY barbarian friendly and can make the dedication AMAZING for them.
I feel like that because rage is not going to have impact on the impulse damage thats going to make things harder for barb
but you are right that it is better then most others
(and as we play dual class we usually avoid dual martials, for obvious reasons)
kineticist might still end up at least a decent, if not overwhelming combination with barb
Uhhhh....
Fire kineticists literally just got Yondus ability at lvl 1...
They can whistle arrows through people?
They're empathic with all life?
They get a level 1 fire feet that sends a flame down a 30 foot (max) path of my choosing.
It does not say single line.
I can just zig zag a 1d6 flame into multiple enemies.
Ah. Well, that's cool.
Also a reason to not stand too far back.
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I have my copy! But also just woke up. XD will take some time to give me a lookies
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Nonat1 new video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3TSgAoEJ5M
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I am seriously hyped by that Scorching Ray knockoff for metal. That is amazing AoE to be able to fire every other turn.
Wood getting Protector Tree at will is funny, and also probably super effective at soaking damage for frontliners.
Also a great way to quickly set up a forest if that's a thing you want. Like, it might just be a little Medium tree right now, but you can plant one per minute with minimal effort, and they grow.
I have my copy! But also just woke up. XD will take some time to give me a lookies
Feel free to join us on the AMA when you're ready to share.
I am seriously hyped by that Scorching Ray knockoff for metal. That is amazing AoE to be able to fire every other turn.
But its a little weaker once its progression is basically a physical damage cantrip progression (1d6) yet its still being cool to kill weaklings.
Wood getting Protector Tree at will is funny, and also probably super effective at soaking damage for frontliners.
Thats the part the makes it strange. While the above attack impulse is a 3-actions overflow to work like an improved dmg cantrip, the "Protector Tree" replies a fully lvl 1 spell completely with just 2-actions without additional cost.
Also a great way to quickly set up a forest if that's a thing you want. Like, it might just be a little Medium tree right now, but you can plant one per minute with minimal effort, and they grow.I am seriously hyped by that Scorching Ray knockoff for metal. That is amazing AoE to be able to fire every other turn.
Wood getting Protector Tree at will is funny, and also probably super effective at soaking damage for frontliners.
I sure hope so!
It would be a real shame if the class said something like "These trees wither away after 24 hours" or some similar exception to the spell.
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Thats the part the makes it strange. While the above attack impulse is a 3-actions overflow to work like an improved dmg cantrip, the "Protector Tree" replies a fully lvl 1 spell completely with just 2-actions without additional cost.
We've been straight-up told that the impulse version of certain things is going to be just plain better than the spell version. Fly was given as a particular example. Damage isn't on the list. Creating trees that protect people is.
In general, Kineticist seems to have a fair amount of bulk in the "subtracting damage from successful hits" category. It's an interesting area of specialty.
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Also a great way to quickly set up a forest if that's a thing you want. Like, it might just be a little Medium tree right now, but you can plant one per minute with minimal effort, and they grow.I am seriously hyped by that Scorching Ray knockoff for metal. That is amazing AoE to be able to fire every other turn.
Wood getting Protector Tree at will is funny, and also probably super effective at soaking damage for frontliners.
I sure hope so!
It would be a real shame if the class said something like "These trees wither away after 24 hours" or some similar exception to the spell.
Nope. The only caveat is that recasting the impulses causes any existing instance of the impulse to end, but it specifically leaves behind a normal tree.
Now that the pdfs are officially starting to be distributed I will proceed to wait slightly less patiently for the Third of August. Or until the pdf reache's my friends computer. At which moment I may or may not be guilty of kidnapping.
Kineticist seemms super cool.
I'm trying to figure out how to run a support one, water has the best healing, and its single element bonus of moving people 5 feet is FANTASTIC, but I feel like most of its feats aren't fantastic?
I think a multi gate that started with wood and earth, and then got some air feats, would be the best support build? You got a little bit of healing from wood, some controll from earth and air. Seems like it could fill what most parties expect from a support caster (though the lack of buffs would make it not as good).
I think I remember paizo saying that they balance things around a classic fighter, rogue, wizard, cleric party. It seems like this class toes the line between fighter and wizard, not as good with the damage and tanky, and not as versatile as a wizard, but filling the damage and control well enough. However, that is just looking at it for a little bit without play experience. It feels like there are things that SHOULD make it fill that cleric role, but I am not finding ways to make them add up right.
Someone over on the Reddit AMA said they the Wood element was a better healer than Water. Have you tried looking more closely at that? I don’t have my sub PDF yet, so I can’t verify it for myself yet.
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Both pages of the water impulses were displayed long enough for screen caps during PaizoCon and the video Nonat1 released today on YouTube displayed all the level 1 impulses for wood and metal. So, I don’t think you are violating any rules here now; however, copy pasting game mechanics is prohibited, though paraphrasing or summarizing is usually okay, I believe.
Unless I am reading it wrong, both can only be done once every 10 minutes for each target and get a resistance with benefits that are situational. Fresh Produce at level 5 heals for 3d4+11 (14 to 23) and Ocean’s Balm heals for 3d8 (3 to24) at that level. At 9th level, you are looking at 5d4+21 (26 to 41) versus 5d8 (5 to 40). They are fairly comparable in my opinion, but I prefer the fresh produce because the minimum healing from it is less swingy than the oceans balm. Sure it takes an action by the targeted ally to eat it, making the oceans balm better for incapacitated allies. But, I want to heal them more before they drop.
I would look at other abilities for each element just to be sure which style of healer fits my play style better. Wood also has an aura that grants temp HP every round and Timber Sentinel, which is pretty nice for preventing damage for allies. I don’t see anything like that for water.
I'd also allow an undestroyed one to be used as for cover. Might even be useful to Hide
Probably lesser cover at most, since that's what you could get from a creature, and the tree specifically takes up even less space than that.
So, is the kineticist viable in combat or not?
All this talk makes it feel like it doesn't :S
It's like "it's not as good as a martial class, but not as good as a caster class" O_o
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Off course it's viable.
The point is that Kineticist Impulses are not so strong as top level spells but it also don't have daily limited resources like spellslots/reagents or combat limited resources like focus. But have the versatility of many utility impulses and different damage types.
Kineticist becomes into a middle ground between martials, spellcasters and alchemists.
So... jack of all trades, but master of none?
Still sounds... average ^^;
It definitely feels average, but give the community some time to come up with and test builds that are more than "mono fire turret" or "jagged berm killzone."
Versatility is power in PF2. The Kineticist might end up the best overall character in a fight if they finally hit the proper balance of combat prowess and versatility. But I do not expect it to overshadow other good classes either.
I'll take your word for it.
If each element can bring specific combat advantages, then "having them all" would be very beneficial. It's not just about being versatile against a creature, but also being versatile per round.
It definitely feels average, but give the community some time to come up with and test builds that are more than "mono fire turret" or "jagged berm killzone."
Even then, you can specialize in only one element, you just need a secondary damage type in case you run into something resistant or immune. This is very important for fire, as other elements already offer bludgeoning, piercing or slashing.
Fire can bludgeon as "hard light", and either pierce or slash like a blowtorch... if it can make sense.
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Even then, you can specialize in only one element, you just need a secondary damage type in case you run into something resistant or immune. This is very important for fire, as other elements already offer bludgeoning, piercing or slashing.
Fire can bludgeon as "hard light", and either pierce or slash like a blowtorch... if it can make sense.
You won't have any problems with this.
There's two first level feats that can solve the issue.
One adds a versatile element choice for your blasts (for fire, that's cold), and the other enables you to treat your blasts as B/P/S and add weapon traits to them.
Kineticists also get a feature at 3rd level that enables them to bypass enemy resistances and immunities to their element, provided that the creature has that elemental trait. So a pyrokineticist can burn a fire elemental to death, albeit needing a bit of luck and patience in order to succeed.
Does the melee kineticist have any "close the gap" type abilities, or is the whole idea that you're effective at both range and up close?
Since your first action in any combat is probably going to be "open your gate and use your armor impulse" leaving you with two actions on the first round. I suppose you could stride and blast with those two.