Tunu40's page

I'm guessing the formulaic archetype too. I would only add that most class archetypes also have:

"Basic [splat] - add a level 1 or 2 class feat", and

"Advanced [splat] - add a class feat equal or less than half your level. You may take this feat multiple times".

So I'd expect to see those too.

Lol, can’t believe I forgot to include those. It’s just such a given. XD

I was thinking of what from the Animist will stay strictly Animist (like Witch has its Patron’s gifts - familiar ability/hex cantrip), and I’m thinking the spontaneous Apparition spells might be it (and possibly being able to select/swap apparitions).

My guess:

Animist Dedication: Select an apparition. You gain that apparition, but nothing else tied to it. Trained spell attack and DCs. Gain 2 cantrips, from the Divine tradition. Trained in Religion and a lore from your apparition.

Basic/Expert/Master Spells: Prepared divine spell slots.

Spell Breadth: Gain additional spell slots.

Vessel Spell: Gain the associated vessel spell of your apparition.

Will Mastery: Master Will saves. Probably add something about bonus against possession.

The spontaneous apparition spells are a bit too…involved, to use. Granting the ability to swap apparitions seems a bit much for a person dabbling into the Animist. Gaining one apparition that they are strongly bonded with.

I’m gonna guess gaining more and having the ability to swap would step too much on what the Animist is and so it shouldn’t be accessible to other classes. Because you’re already a full class, the Animist Archetype should only be one slice of the Animist to augment your capabilities. And if you wanted to have more prepared/spontaneous casting, you’re either getting the opposite of what your caster does, or you’re gonna have to stretch because you’re a martial and you’re pretty good already.

It’s a bit boring/formulaic, but I think it’s consistent with the formula.

The Raven Black wrote:

Just realized that, until the post above, I read Hide as the english armor while it was the japanese first name all along.

And I was trying to understand why the character would have such an odd nickname.

Oh. Ooh. And then most probably it isn't read as /haɪd/.

I feel that Tian Xia guide should include some guide on pronunciation...

Just in general, when reading other cultures in Latin script, best to assume:

A = ah, E = eh, I = ee, O = oh, U = oo.

Diphthongs (for example, the [i] in “Hi”, which is [ai]) and flat vowels aren’t commonly assumed when other languages are written in Latin script for an American audience.

Lots of Latin script languages are pretty straightforward with what each vowel is (Spanish/Italian/Portuguese). And others have additional vowels for other sounds (such as German/Turkish/Scandinavian). And French is both your cousin and it’s own thing at the same time.

There are lots of exceptions, but for an internet post (and not a linguistics lecture), this is generally a helpful guideline. (Though Japanese Romanji does do the “ai” sound so it’s “Meen-kai” and not “Meen-kah-ee”…but again, that’s a whole other discussion.)

Were familiars supposed to lose access to use Trained Skill actions?

It was in the original Familiar page, but in the Remaster, it doesn’t exist in either the Pet feat or the Familiar page.

More summoner options are always welcome! Would a kami be divine or primal in tradition?

In the Bestiary, they use Divine spells, but they are from the Material Plane.

If there is a Kami eidolon, I imagine they’ll also be Divine spell tradition, but their home is the Universe (like Plant and Beast eidolon).

Good to know! Thanks!

Something I’m wondering.

PC1 didn’t have Specific Familiars (which was odd, I thought that would’ve been the place to put it so that all familiars rules are in the same place).

And it isn’t mentioned at all in PC2. Which would mean, Specific Familiars are no longer core rules.

Did Paizo just remove Specific Familiars from Pathfinder 2e?

(Which is odd, because I thought Specific Familiars were a beautiful, elegant, and balanced design method.)

Organsight “debuffs” an enemy so that when you special RK against it, you have a chance to deal Organsight’s damage. This damage occurs whenever they take Slashing/Piercing damage from you.

Rouse Skeleton is a reflex basic save slashing damage AoE that can be Sustained.

Since the slashing damage happens even on a Success, you have a high change of triggering Organsight’s damage (if you originally triggered it on the RK).

It’s great for long fights (as the Witch has more subclass options for bursts sustained combat).

The hard part about this (and the reason it’s not broken, though very potent/efficient) is that you have use up 2 spell slots (Organsight and Rousing Skeleton), it takes 2 turns to get them out (unless you Quickened Casting), and Witch is INT-based, so you need good Medicine skill or vast amount of Lore skills to nail the Organsight RK check often.

However, once you get that out, if you have 3 FP for Cackle, you can burst out some damage.

Cackle has always been more than just a hex sustain feat.

It’s also meant for getting multiple sustained spells rolling, or layering multiple spells as tactical play that non-Witches can’t do.

With Flaming Sphere’s change to Floating Flame (basic save for damage), Primal/Arcane witches can find some enjoyment in using Cackle + Sustain and having 2-actions left for either a spell or other stuff. Or Organsight’s RK + Rousing Skeleton. Or when you reach the point

But it’s still a useful tool for some.

One example: Cackle is a fine candidate for a Wilding Steward witch. If you’re more frontline oriented (either Athletics or Gouging Claw), having Cackle can be helpful for handling multiple enemies that go after you (and saving Interposing Earth for others) while still maintains some actions for spellcasting or maneuverability. If you’re far range, a Floating Flame can end up being more economical than a Thunderstrike for some sustained single target damage.

Or it can be completely optional due to other strong choices such as Basic Lessons or Enhanced Familiar.

Whereas a Silence in Snow witch, it would be a lower priority if they want to be doing continual chip damage with Clinging Ice, but a higher priority when they need to be defensive and space out from danger (using their familiar ability and hex cantrip‘s effect).

Action efficiency is just as valuable as character potency, and it has its place.

Ah sorry, thought I pointed it out.

It’s not you getting the imprecise sense, it’s your familiar being able to use Point Out + Speech. Since Blinded makes everything Undetected to you (visually), your familiar can help mitigate its effects by using its 60ft range and Point Out. And in the case that imprecise hearing might not work in the area you’re in. Which I guess works if you’re in the center of your own Darkness spell (since everything will become Undetected/Hidden to you).

Keen Senses is a fantastic scouting tool. I’m not denying that! I’m just digging around the Primal spell list to see if there’s anymore interactions with these kind of blind spells and Keen Senses/Point Out.

But I’ll keep searching around. It’s just nice to know that it can do that, meaning you can play around with other ancestries/heritages that don’t get Darkvision. I also forgot Primal gets the Darkness spell.

No, that’s still great information!

I think we’re still on-topic because the topic is Remaster Witch Patrons and the Wilding Steward (and Resentment) are the two hot topics. And I know that Wilding Steward is going to be the least played and thus, the least experienced. Which means it’s not getting the proper research or playtesting.

For example, something I haven’t seen brought up yet: Wilding Steward and the Blinded Condition.

Keen Senses mitigates the Blinded condition on you. If you don’t have the right senses (such as Darkvision or other senses), your familiar can Keen Senses and you can use your (AoE replete) Primal spells to continually blast away. Scatter Scree, Timber, and the humble Spout cantrips are AoEs, not targeted.

Give your familiar Speech and they can Point Out to you all day. Spirit Guide has Speech (if you need an early combat pet), Elemental Wisp has Speech (and can boost the damage of Timber, Spout, or Scatter Scree), and Ceru has Darkvision.

And the reason this is important - in the (possibly rare) situation where you don’t fight any Darkvision enemies (and if there is one, make sure to Wilding Word it first), you can get the effect of a Rank 4 spell at Rank 2 (the Hidden condition without breaking in hostile actions).

I know that other families can grab imprecise sense, but the Wilding Steward can mitigate the effect of Off-Guard the Darkvision enemy would have against you, but I think you’ll also be to Interposing Earth against them too. And there are other spells during this level to mitigate Darkness spells if you need to do other things - Darkvision, Tremor Sense, and Fungal Hyphae are all Rank 2 spells.

With some more digging, in sure we can find more ways that Keen Senses can be weaponized. We just gotta look at the class a whole (like everyone does with Ongoing Misery and Occult spells) to see how we can play it to our favor.

Overall, the Wilding Steward’s theme is “mitigation insurance”, which is probably one of the harder playstyles to work with. Because… you sometimes have to put yourself out there, to ruin it for everyone.

Edit: I know I know. “I could just pick those same familiar abilities or specific familiars too.” or “Just cast Darkvision, it’s the same tier”. But that’s the point, the WS doesn’t have to do that meaning that’s one extra spell slot for something else.

I do agree it’s not intuitive. Funnily, it works perfectly casting it on the familiar because the familiar has near 0 ways to trigger the debuff or even be affected by the debuff.

Narratively, it actually can work. Growl at your familiar to do better.

I also think it’s true the Wilding Steward needs more time in the oven. What SuperBidi experienced is exactly what was intended by James Case and the team when they remastered Wild patron. I also think it was the last to be worked on, which is why it feels so “clunky/unintuitive”, but also why it was a bit more prominent in the Witch blog (most recent on the mind).

I think both SuperBidi and Finoan are BOTH correct in their side: SuperBidi is right that the Wilding Steward Witch is functional and viable. Finoan is absolutely correct that it could’ve been more clean and polished in its remaster. I’m sure we wouldn’t have minded as much (because I bet most players wouldn’t even give the Wilding Steward patrons a second look), if the Resentment wasn’t such a strong patron.

And I can understand that on the forums, we try to argue for balance that DOESN’T require a GM’s involvement, despite that more likely being the default (because we care about a universally good experience for everyone as the baseline).

But I’d like to know from SuperBidi how he built/plays his Wilding Steward Witch and how he felt about it in combat. (Just so I can compare it to mine and my experiences.)

Lol, ya, that was my suggestion for Wilding Word to apply to minions (maybe just the Crit/Failure?). I feel like I’m being greedy with it but at the same time…it would be nice!

But I’m just gonna chime in on Wilding Steward because I was the guy that made the thread s@+%ting on it back around PaizoCon. (I didn’t just say overhaul, I said it needed to be put behind the barn and shot. Apparently, I was very wrong and it’s not as bad).

I find Wilding Steward really really weird because for a “niche” patron, it’s satisfyingly fine outside its niche and incredibly nice during those niche. It’s one of the patrons that can support alternate stats such as a STR/DEX Witch instead of a DEX/INT witch who chooses healing/summoning/utility rather than Primal’s typical blasting (and instead commits to Success expectations). The nice thing about PF2e is that a character is a sum of its parts and the Wilding Steward does work I stepped back and looked at all the things it can use.

I agree it’s not the most powerful, but I’ve definite found it *intriguing* and thus fun! But I think the Patron gifts only work…because it gets the Primal spell list.

I’ve been finding fun because those utilities work out nicely with a Primal caster. Familiar of Keen Senses Point Out works out due to Primal being filled with AoE spells. Having access to Scatter Scree and Spout. Additionally, since your familiar has a default detector/scout ability, you can customize it however you want and it will ALWAYS be ready as a scout. So swapping it to an Elemental Wisp, for example. It feels like the most free/flexible for specific familiars since its scout ability is always available.

And Wilding Word. I find it a fine hex because it’s multipurpose. It’s both a defensive and debuff hex. But why does Primal work well with it? Interposing Earth. You can more easily handle the single baddy who has Reach + Reactive Strike than other 6HP casters. Those other casters, they just don’t have the total AC to be that safe. Wilding Word + Interposing Earth can force the RS to strike at a -4, essentially almost a 1st MAP RS against you. It was actually a reason I felt pretty comfortable triggering AoO on the Wilding Steward. (Being an Orc with Orc Ferocity also helps). And, Primal doesn’t struggle against multiple weak enemies. It’s a blasting spell tradition. You can hex the “stronger” enemy, save Interposing Earth for dealing with “flanking enemies”. And if you know s!*~ will hit the fan, you like have the Tailwind buff to high tail it out of there, or instead, bunk down with the Raise Shield+Wilding Word.

Another reason is that Interposing Earth gives Standard Cover, meaning you can Hide and then Sneak. Which, the STR/DEX Witch should be able to Stealth check better.

And in the Beginner Box, the very first encounters, the Wilding Steward would’ve absolutely felt valuable. Familiar of Keen Senses will do a great job picking up enemy groups early. Wilding Word works well standing with a martial at a chokepoint. There’s a big enemy right after the first pack which makes Wilding Word useful, especially if you’re gonna go in a Gouging Claw/Ignition. Rousing Splash/Glass Shield/Positive Attunement (and Vital Beacon layer on) can help mitigate being a 6HP caster. Glass Shield, Shattering Gem can do some porcupining. And some heritages + Oaken Resilience can help with resistances.

I don’t think it’s a super strong combat-wise like Resentment, but in actual play - I’ve found it strong against those annoying enemies while thinking back to my other experiences - it performs well in more roleplaying stuff. And being a Primal spellcaster, it has versatile “spell builds” to choose from that supports your playstyle. I think there are a lot of incredible unconventional directions you can go with this patron - the Packmaster, the Grappler, the Combat Healer (Cleric), and Durable Caster (Druid), the Combat Familiar, etc..

I think it’s a solid 8/10 patron amongst other patrons that are probably 9/10 to 11/10. It’s also not the easiest because it relies more on system mastery. I don’t think it’s “shiny” like most other patrons and I do believe it will never be popular (because it’s more niche and derivative from typical casters). But it does function very well with some internal synergies. And it’s absolutely so much better than Premaster Wild Patron.

Tunu40 wrote:

I do think it’s odd that they didn’t place Protect Companion in the Player Core…

I don't think that is odd. Protect Companion is from Secrets of Magic. Not from CRB or APG.

But Gouging Claw is from SoM and is in the Remaster.

On a fun side: since Companions in spells/abilities refer to BOTH familiars and animal companions, that means it clarifies that Thundering Dominance spell works on Familiars.

Not that big of a damage boost due to the slow heightening, but it does resolve the Skilled - Intimidation issue for familiars. The scaling of the Intimidation bonus is half what your proficiency bonus would be. Meaning the familiar isn’t completely worthless.

And an Independent familiar can use Thunderous Roar once each casting for a small AoE, but also an AoE Fear.

Not the greatest thing, but I think it’s a nice clarification.

I do think it’s odd that they didn’t place Protect Companion in the Player Core…

Don’t think that works. Nothing keeps their Fly speed when you mount them unless it specifically has the Mount special ability.

Familiars are balanced with Flier because they have very minimal (to most extent, none) combat capabilities.

Additionally, Familiars are “supposed” to be more scouts and detectors so Fly gives them the capability to do that.

Edit: Also reading through the Remaster, there are some contradictions in the Animal Companion section, but looking at Turns and the Minion trait (under spells), a Minion actually has 2 actions/0 reactions the moment your turn starts, but they cannot use those 2 actions unless specifically commanded. And since you can end your turn with unused Actions, the Minion is essentially losing any/all actions that were never used. Which means, any start of turn/end of turn stuff for the Minion should take place the same time you as a player normally would.

The biggest thing against my argument is that Animal Companion section contradicts by saying that they gain actions when Commanded, which means the Animal Companion section believes all Minions have 0 actions/0 reactions per turn.

However, following the Minion description + the Turn rules does explain what it means by the minion will “take actions to defend itself or move out of harm’s way”. If we follow that rule and not the Animal Companion section, then that means if a player chooses not to command their minion because they need to use the actions to escape for themselves, the GM can intervene and dictate how the Minion will use those 2 actions to “save itself” (such as not standing in the fire). I think it would be fair for the GM to also never dictate that the Minion can follow the offensive metagame of the player despite the bond.

But this does come down to GM work and fiat, which I know this particular discussion is trying to address. This interpretation can help keep things a bit more realistic and avoid the whole “This is fine” familiar as it burns to death watching the master run away to safety.

I always thought it’d be neat if Wizard’s Spellbook had the Inscribed trait where they can store scrolls inside and cast scrolls from.

The Spellbook was always something associated to the Wizard (iconic art of flipping to a page and casting the spell) and that fits perfectly with the mechanics associated to Inscribed + Scrolls.

Maybe that could be an Arcane Thesis where some Wizards decide to make their Spellbook able to store a number of scrolls.

Instead of the Spellbook just being a floppy disk to boot up ye olde “Prepared Spell Program” and then chucked back into the bag.

Some last things I’ve noticed from Minata:

The one-eyed tusk creature? Bungisngis (bu-ŋis-ŋis). ‘Ngisi‘ is the word for ‘smirk/grin’ but along the lines of when you’re sniggering/whichever. They come from a story of the bungisngis harassing 3 animal friends for food and then trashing their house when they refuse. In Malayo-Polynesian languages, words are repeated for greater emphasis or meaning. In this case, ngis-ngis is “SUPER smiley”!

Sprites? I think this is reference to anito and diwata. There’s a bit of overlap as the terms were more found in different regions, but during the colonial eras, diwata was usually confused with fairies, though they were also nature spirits and sometimes celestial deities. However, diwata do make me think of “fey-like” creature for the Philippines. The story I heard, Diwata was the name of the supreme goddess (and wife to the Great Spirit Bathala). There is a story about the Pleiades constellation, which I heard as the story of the Paralumans (means ‘muse’, but in this case, it was Star Maidens). They came to earth to bathe and a hunter sees them. He’s advised to steal one of their winged dresses, preventing the paraluman from flying back to the stars. After her sisters leave, he meets her and they fall in love. Years later, their daughter finds the hidden dress and shows it off to her mother who recognized it as her own. She takes the dress back and flies home, reuniting with her sisters. The sky god, to ensure they never get trapped again, locks them into the sky, and that’s how we got the Pleiades Constellation. I think it’s likely that diwata could be an inspiration for Minatan Sprite heritage. In the Singkil dance I mentioned, some folks say it was the diwata that causes the earthquake, some say it was the anito. Some have diwata are akin to wood nymphs/dryads. Other times (such as Maria Makiling) she’s more like a saint/demigoddess (she was restructured from being a mountain goddess into a…nature Virgin Mary during the Spanish Era). Though, diwata are almost always female, and from some research, it seems the male version are called Enkanto, but I’ll have to read more.

Spirits? So, the other term used for spirits are - anito. The way I heard of anito was along the lines of nature spirits (animism) and the wood idols in homes they can possess. Unlike diwata, which could be mischievous, anito I’ve always heard of them being revered. Babaylan are indigenous animistic tribal priests that interact with the anito. My understanding is that it’s pretty diverse, but in some ways - anito can be understood along the lines of kami, being both natural/ancestral spirits. I can see how this can tie into a few classes, but in general, the roleplay and world-building is awesome. My understanding is that pre-Hispanic times, there was a much more vivid connection with the world. There is a (likely inaccurate) story I heard about how anito was used to spread Christianity. The story goes that the conquistadors found anito statues in a hut and we’re going to destroy it, but they noticed one was a child in crib. They recognized it as El Niño and used it to spread Christianity. I doubt it’s that true and is more likely conquistador propaganda, though it’s possible it might’ve been an El Niño statuette left behind when Magellan’s expedition fled the Philippines. It’s also probably a white-washing of overwriting indigenous beliefs, such as how Maria becomes the new classification for Diwatas, likely to avoid angering the conquistador-priests. (Unlike other colonial areas, Philippines was so distant from Spain that the only Spaniard ever met in the community was the priest).

To fit into Pathfinder magic traditions, the legends of Diwata always fit closer with Divine (even Occult) and Anito with Primal, even though they’re still mixed around at times.

Goblins? I’m not really sure. My first thought were the Duwende. I’ve only heard stories from friends (who were scared of them in the Province). They don’t really have a form except for a mound you’re not supposed to step on. And if you think a duwende might be nearby or might’ve been offended, you say “Tabi tabi po” meaning “let me pass by, please”. Tabi meaning “aside”, and repetition for emphasis. Po is used along the lines of “ma’m/sir”, you add it to the end to show respect to those older than you (or just to be formal). Or you can use it to insult your older siblings/cousin. I used it once (thinking I was being polite) and had an Auntie respond “I’m not THAT old!” But ya, I’m not fully sure what Paizo pulled inspiration for the Goblin, so I’m excited to see what that one is!

Overall, super excited at how much they’ve pulled! Can’t wait to see the other areas of Tian Xia, but also, super looking forward to the other setting books!

First Off:
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I'd like to congratulate Paizo on releasing Player Core 1 and GM Core remaster books! It was a lot of work in a short time and we have seen your sweat and tears delivering a protected TTRPG! Thank you for your dedication!

At the same time, we do understand that the time crunch meant not everything got to go exactly as planned. There just wasn't time and maybe somethings were good enough. One, in my opinion, the Wilding Steward.

Issue?
======
Many of the patrons really nail the intent of the Witch in the remaster. (Applause!) It really emphasizes the familiar as a central part of the class, giving a fun niche compared to other casters. They have strong hex cantrips to make up for their reduction in spell slots. There is a LOT of internal cohesiveness in the patrons. Also, the patrons' flavors fricking drip! Kudos! However, the Wilding Steward is one that struggles the most to meet these things.

Compared to the other Primal patron, Silence in Snow makes sense with the level 1 kit. Clinging Ice reduces enemy speed, Familiar of Freezing Rime adds difficult terrain, and Gust of Wind knocks down enemies while making it difficult to approach you. In short, the Silence in Snow Witch's kit allows the Witch to continue doing their casting from afar and making it difficult for enemies to get to them and take them down. It's defensive, but in a tactical/utility way of "demobilization".

The Wilding Steward doesn't have the same internal cohesion. Wilding Word makes it more difficult for an enemy to harm you, while also makes it more susceptible to attacks/saves if it does. And I think Wilding Word is so much better now that it can affect everything! Familiar of Keen Senses doesn't really work with Wilding Word (or most of the time), even though it IS a fantastic detector (Overseer aberration specific familiar?) And Summon Animal/Veggies would normally draw fire anyway with or without Wilding Word being active. It's a bit hodge-podge of some interesting ideas, but not united by any core mechanical role or identity (though I love the flavor).

I think I have a nice direction to go!

Proposal:
=========

Wilding Word
Success: Change "harms you" -> "harms you *or your minions.*"
Critical/Failure: Change "damages you" -> "damages you *or your minions.*"

And that's it! I think it lands a fun little role for the Wilding Steward - that of the "Packmaster". It would work well with the granted Summon Animal/Veggies spell.

Some Reasons:
=============

-Lesson of Wild Speech Mechanical/Narrative Cohesion: Wilding Word + Summon Animal/Veggies has some serious narrative flair. The power of the patron over nature is ever present as you summon creatures of the wild, your own primal voice intimidating enemies, and punishing those who fight against the patron's pawns (you, your familiar, and your summons).

-Iconic Control: The witch that has minions to do her bidding is iconic. The Wicked Witch of the West sends creatures after Dorothy. The White Witch and her army of creatures. Maleficent being aided by nature. I don't think it's odd that when the hero enters the domain of a witch that the creatures around spy for her. Though not a Witch, Kira from The Dark Crystal, calling on critters to take down the Skeksis Scientist.

-Unique Patron Niche - Primal: Silence in Snow is definitely lined up for the blaster primal patron. However, Primal is more than just blasting. It has environmental manipulation, healing, summoning, and battle forms. If a Common "Spirit Guide-like" specific familiar was available, the Wilding Steward would fit perfectly as that more physically-oriented witch that uses those other Primal spells for support.

-Great Use for Certain Feats: Certain feats are sort of "extra" or "trap" feats that don't truly serve a good purpose when compared to other things at their level, but would fit this witch. Rites of Convocation to ensure the Wilding Steward has their main gimmick spell slot available and Witch's Charge (if it was tweaked to always include your minions).

-Give Familiar Purpose: As Mark Seifter highlighted, put that familiar to work! Having it take hits to trigger the hex can be something! (Especially if you select the defensive familiar route...which Spirit Guide specific familiar fits perfectly...)

Inspiration:
============
I always liked the Wild Patron, but it didn't really offer anything that the Winter Patron already did. It barely had a usable hex and Summon Animal/Veggies was already accessible, but Gust of Wind is a great spell. However, that changed when the Spirit Guide [Rare] specific familiar was released early this year (2023).

I don't think this was on any of the developers minds, but it fit perfectly with the Wild Patron. With no hex to use, the Wild Patron could focus on commanding the familiar. The Primal spell list had the perfect things for the Spirit Guide - Magic Fang and Moon Frenzy. On top of that, Enlarge/Elemental Gift/Barkskin/Haste/etc.. At level 11, you could have your familiar cast Magic Fang on itself as you cast either Enlarge/Moon Frenzy. However, the Spirit Guide needs the Witch to have a high STR (for attack) and a high DEX (for AC).

But it worked out. Primal spells accesses heal spells (and some useful buff spells). The granted spell is a summon spell which you could summon a Guard Dog. With the Spirit Guide, my Witch could easily use itself and the specific familiar to qualify for the Guard Dog's pack attack. Later on, grab Beastmaster and enjoy being the Packmaster.

Did it overshadow other witch builds? No! It wasn't broken, but it was creatively fun!

It overall showed that a more physical Primal Witch can be fun, doable, and fitting!

<<Warning>>: Playtesting though, I do want to share something that was "tension" with the summoning Witch. Summoning guzzles up the whole turn. This made it difficult to get the hex off and have the summon appear and immediately be a threat. It requires some planning and setup to do (such as getting a hex on the enemy you want to target and possibly buffing your familiar with Rousing Splash, then having your familiar Independent Stride to the enemy. Then, on the second turn - you need to have Cackle to sustain Wilding Word as you summon on the enemy. This is why I don't think the simple errata would be gamebreaking. It's arguable, it may hardly change anything at all. However, I still think it is a fitting functionality.

The Primal spell tradition is pretty diverse. And honestly, the Wilding Steward fits perfectly for that battle form witch, which is also very iconic! The Green Witch (Narnia), Maleficent (Sleeping Beauty), Madam Mim (Sword in the Stone), Kuzunoha (Japanese folklore/history), and various antagonists in Chinese films.

Conclusion:
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I feel like this simple change of adding **9 words**, could have incredible and fun ramifications that are far from being overpowered! I do have other thoughts (such as the familiar flanking fits better on Wilding Steward), but that's for another time.

Thanks again and regardless of what happens, still pretty stoked for what 2024 has in store!

(Side note: And if it isn't too much trouble, I do feel that the Spirit Guide familiar could become a core option in Core 2. They are far from powerful, but they are pretty neat and fun.)

Definitely should be errata’d though. Once per round means you can’t Hex and Phase Familiar outside your turn. Which I know is absolutely not intended.

As a side note, I still think Phase Familiar should be a reaction hex cantrip and Cackle/Patron’s Puppet should be the two focus spell options. Then replace the Cackle feat with a feat to grab the one you didn’t initially choose.

It’s a small thing, but I like that Baba Yaga’s Spirit Object buff means my object (puppet) familiar can pack a bigger punch.

That's kind of a reach for being relevant errata, especially since the whole flavor of nephilim now is that it can include influences from several planes, and thus it's just as likely that the character marked 'Nephilim' isn't of any one lineage and features both celestial and fiendish traits.

If I remember right, in the Nephilim description it mentions that there are Ganzi and Aphorite Nephilim, but the (Core) book will only cover fiend and celestial.

So, maybe those will be in Core 2?

If familiar patron abilities are allowed during Absorb Familiar - turn it into a gem and make a necklace to hang around the martial’s neck (or shove it in their pockets). Now enemies will think the hissing that’s ruining their lives is coming from the martial.

I’m wondering if design-wise, Paizo expects Primal casters to spend their time blasting away (it is known as the “physical blaster”).

In that case, I can see why they decided on the patron packaging.

Snow Witch has Clinging Ice’s speed reduction + Freezing Rime’s difficult terrain, when placed in front of you and positioned using your team on your “corners” to negate “walking around”. It takes 2 actions for an enemy to get to you and attack from the 30ft range. A speed hampered enemy might see that ice on the ground and just decide to deal with the pain in front of them, rather than charging towards the middle of the party over the frosted terrain.

Wilding Witch would instead be a “trapped beast in the corner”. Most enemies might expect to charge a caster and take them down. If they fail, the Wilding Witch hexes them, and now they’re in the middle of the party, and not even great at taking their target down anymore. And if they continue going after the Witch, they’re now weakened. Familiar of Keen Senses also serves to help the Witch know if enemies are sneaking around. I do understand that this relies a lot on the GM’s style, which lowers the value of the familiar ability. Maybe, if you’re GMing with a Wilding Steward Witch player, consider having more enemy skulking around so the Witch player can feel like their familiar is supporting?

They’re both defensive, but Snow demobilizes while Wilding deters/detects. I wonder if they expect Primal Witches to always be focusing on pumping out blasts. Snow might prefer having more speed for a “kiting” style, whereas Wilding might want to be more durable for “duking it out”.

Ignoring the Resentment elephant familiar in the room hissing at everyone, I find myself more curious about the intended design and playstyle that Paizo thinks Primal (and Arcane) should be doing.

Witch will be defacto debuff caster. A lot of the patrons have a no-save familiar effect, though they are conditional. For example Starless Shadow (Night) needs the familiar to be relatively concealed to the target. Or Resentment (Curse) requiring a spell/effect to be already applied. Or Wilding Steward (Wild) in which it’s the Hex - requiring the enemy to harm the Witch.

As much as I love Korakai, I was hoping an ORC ORaCLe would become the poster child of the ORCLicense Remaster.

Other uses:
•Free Action Valet + Consumables (Cauldron, Double,Double, Ceremonial Knife).
•Free action familiar Aid: Start a turn with Lend a Hand, Emote, Second Opinion
•Familiar activities: Breath Weapon (Faerie Dragon/House Wyrm), Elemental Breath, Spirit/Stitched Familiar, Restorative Familiar, Divine Emissary, Patron’s Presence/Claim.

If your Witch player uses Patron’s Puppet for Familiar Focus…please (PLEASE!) as a GM have the Witch’s patron manifest from the skies to slap their Witch for being silly.

I think Patron’s Puppet is fantastic! I know for years, most players have been advised to play Lesson Witches with their familiar shoved into their pocket for an extra focus point.

Lesson/Hex Witches got buffed by the refocus changes and the general hexing rule changes. That playstyle still exists and is even stronger (especially since most Lesson Witches were going Curse Witches anyway and Resentment is an incredible buff for the optimized Witch).

All of these other tools (different Witch patrons like Wild, Cauldron, Patron’s Puppet, Sympathetic Strike) are fantastic for those OTHER Witch playstyles that were desired, but poorly supported. Is some more tweaking needed? I think so! But it’s still great stuff!

Someone made an interesting post on the subreddit. Familiars are considered companions and the rule about companions (meaning animal companions and familiars) mentions the 1 week.

So, likely, that’s the general rule that familiars fall under, with familiars being a specific type of companion.

I can't even find the rules for what happens when a standard familiar dies in the remaster.....

It’s not in the familiar rules? Premaster: “If your familiar dies, you can spend a week of downtime to replace it at no cost. You can have only one familiar at a time.”

I think if there’s one adjustment I’d make to Witch’s Armaments, is to do something similar to Bard’s new Martial Performance - when you make a successful Strike you can then choose Sustain your hex as a free action.

You can’t access the feat until level 2 (unless you’re Human or GM-approved Mixed Human) anyway, so it’s competing against Cackle, Enhanced Familiar, Cauldron, and Basic Lesson which are all fantastic options (and better?) for a melee Witch.

Ah thanks for sharing the 2nd section!

You're saying there's a familiar ability to revive at daily preparations?

My apologies, I was asking if they formalized it as a separate section in the Witch class feature or if it was formalized as a Witch only familiar ability (like their patron familiar abilities).

Two things: 1) You can prepare 2 cantrips instead of 1 cantrip now? That’s nice. The argument before was you have to use that 1 familiar ability for Cantrip Connection. Glad they changed that!

2) Oh, is the familiar revival now officially a familiar ability called Undying? That’s an interesting way to do it!

Neat read.

But what was the stuff Freiya, Daji, and Lem did during the fight scene? I’m guessing Freiya cast Needle of Vengeance hex and later used her Witch’s Armaments (Eldritch Nail). I’m guessing this was her Witch powers from a long time ago and that Lem was referencing to her deep Witch/Hag-like powers she gained from her past - which was triggered by the child’s crying.

What did Lem do with his one note? Was that italicized section a part of his composition or was it another one of Daji’s riddled casting?

I also have no clue what Daji did. Familiars don’t have offensive spells except for the Spellcasting familiar ability and now the Stitched/Spirit Familiar ability. And the description of the spell he cast sounds nothing like any of the above.

Was it just a creative license thing? Coz I’m pretty jealous my Witch won’t be able to do what Daji does!

Oh, being able to grab a 5 cost specific familiar at lvl. 4 (by taking Enhanced Familiar with Basic Witchcraft) is super exciting!

Is there any language for Witch on how to handle familiars from different sources?

Ya, it’s no one singular thing.

But specifically, the Hexes and Patron Familiar Abilities are directly from your patron. The spell slots you cast are not. They come from you, but your patron helps shortcut the complexity of learning/preparing spells without you requiring the training/experimentation of others (Bard/Cleric/Druid/Wizard).

Did they remove or change the language that the familiar can’t act except to change to/from?

Because some of the master abilities get locked out by that clause. My understanding from what folks have said about patron familiar abilities (the general mechanic, not the specific unique ones) is that it doesn’t really specify the need for the familiar to be able to act or use action.

So, those effects would still go off and would also mean the Sanctuary spell shouldn’t break from the Occult familiar abilities (Ongoing Misery, Balanced Luck, and Night Stalker).

So if they cleared the language for that, it should allow some more tools to keep the familiar safe and to stay functional.

Ya, Witch’s Armaments in and of itself doesn’t look like a great feat. But when looked at the Witch as a whole, you can see where it fits in.

I really like that Starless Shadow concept you shared. I didn’t think of that.

I’ve started a Wilding Steward and the “gishy” stuff works beautifully for a bestial/wild kind of Witch that is different from the norm. I kinda love how the Wilding Steward actually has a lot of different directions it can go.

It’s that kind of versatility and diversity that I want from all classes, ever since we’ve seen Thaumaturge and Kineticist. I’m really glad Paizo is loosening up to that.

I think there’s still some more tweaking to do, but overall it has felt a lot more fun.

Ah understood! Thank you!

I was hoping maybe we might’ve seen a Celestial/Fiend familiar ability, but it’s fine if it’s not there.

I just really like that the traits are an official thing!

You can use familiar abilities to add a variety of traits like plant or dragon. Construct looks like the only one with inherit benefits because of the huge immunity list. **Also seems like you can use that to do the object familiar.**

Come again for big cheese? Like…we can have an ACTUAL object familiar without being Baba Yaga?

If so, oh gosh, Starless Shadow Witches + Invisible Item when you got those annoying night-vision goggle enemies.

Edit: I also heard the Wilding Word flavor text. Holy hell I love it.

I’m also curious what’s meant by this too.

I’ve been following the news since PaizoCon gave the first details and everything they’ve intended is to boost every class and so far everything looks like it has (except, again…the OGL’s fallout on Wizards) either via direct buffs (Witch) or indirect buffs (focus points/spells).

It most certainly is, and please, keep sharing with us. I for one am so glad to see you so excited about this, and so willing to share more of your culture with us. I am US born and raised and have never had the chance to travel, so for me, reading about other peoples' cultures and folklore and lifestyles is exciting and enriching. I am glad when Paizo can represent those cultures correctly, and even more so when they turn to the people who have lived those cultures and stories and give them the chance to share it with the rest of us. Seeing how excited YOU are for these books makes ME even more excited for them as well :-)

Thank you, that means actually means a lot. I've been blessed to meet people from all over the world and also travel across the world too. And it's wonderful seeing and participating in other people's worlds. So, I get excited when I can recognize other people's cultures too.

I guess to share some other stuff I noticed from the 3 pictures and what they reminded me of:

[Fish Gun Lady]

The Philippines is divided into 3 major regions: Luzon (North), Visayas (South), and Mindanao (South). Mindanao, due its proximity to the Indonesian islands, had a lot of influence from Indian/Muslim traders along the famous Indian Ocean Trade Route which influenced a lot of their music, clothing, and religion. Being connected to the trade routes, they were amazing sailors and fishers.

Additionally, due to the proximity, they gained access to the introduction of cannons. Cannons have long been part of various Island Southeast Asia history. Uniquely, 'lantaka' (in most languages) are known as swivel-guns. They were placed at the front of the ship and could be aimed. Funnily, in the Lost Omens video, when they talked about the Tekkogo(?)-Shogunate's failed invasion of Minata, it's very similar to the failed Mongol (Yuan Dynasty) invasion of Indonesia. A little mixing around (the Shogunate invasion of Asia was actually to Korea). This is also where guns were first introduced, but even more information came from the Ottoman traders (you know, the famous bombard civ).

And it wasn't just Mindanao that had access to cannons. In the north (Luzon), a blacksmith by the name of Pira (officially Panday Pira) started an artillery foundry in Old Manila (14 years prior to European contact via Magellan). And his cannons were used in the defense of the city against the conquistador. He was considered one of the greatest Filipino blacksmiths to the conquistadors.

Oh and where was Panday Pira from? The South!

So, Fish Gun Lady is a beautiful representation of Southern Philippines: the hijab, being an amazing sailor, and of course guns!

[Fan Lady]

It took me awhile to remember this, but there is a famous Mindanao drama-dance of the Princess Gandingan as she is attacked by the spirits/gods (diwatas) in the form of an earthquake. She casually and gracefully evades the falling trees and uneven ground, accompanied by her handmaiden who does tries to keep the princess under her parasol. Meanwhile, Prince Bantugan goes to rescue her. It's a fantastic performance known as Singkil and is absolutely worth watching (sometimes confused with Tinikling, another popular Filipino dance from the rural colonial north). Both became popular due to the use dancing between sticks.

But, there are props used to identify the characters. Prince Bantugan with his sword and shield. The handmaiden and her parasols. And Princess Gandigan? Her elegant dress and two fans. :)

[The Festival]

Something I noticed in the picture are the dancers standing on wooden beams that are being carried. What is this from? It's the Vinta dance! The dance is also from Southern Philippines and it's where dancers stand poles, where the dancers carrying it will dip and bend to imitate the waves and the dancer show off their skill, balance, and grace. And in some Singkil performances, Vinta is usually mixed into the background.

I think one that showcases is a video called Melengas Dance Company where they do Singkil and another called Pagdadian City which showcases what the dance and festivals in the picture showns could be like. But honestly, it's REALLY hard to find a bad Singkil performance online. They go all out in terms of costumes and dancing skills.

But ya, it reminded me that while most of us in the US never heard the mythologies and stories from home, a lot of culture was transferred through dance and shown to us in (the myriad) of dance performances done at colleges and high schools. Like....there's a LOT (A LOT) of dances and they're all very diverse representing indigenous tribal culture, the various Mindanao cultures, rural colonial culture, upper class colonial culture, etc..

Again, I'm not fully sure what all the references are that Paizo is using (coz again, the Philippines is large and diverse), but at least that's some of the stuff that feel familiar to me and even though my family comes from the North - it's still super exciting seeing pre-Colonial stuff so prominently highlighted! (Also, it makes sense as Minata is Southeast Asia, which includes Indonesian culture - such as the Wayang ancestry - and Mindanao was a gateway for the rest of Maritime Southeast Asia to enter the Philippine Islands).

My PFS Magus already mixes the RoE cantrips and the older ones. It is absolutely not a problem at all. And in fact I am coming to prefer having the dice decide completely rather than feeling bad that my INT is not as high as the Wizard's.

Like…I know the average damage is slightly lower…but for some I’m absolutely enjoying rolling more d4.

It’s absolutely dumb of me, but for some reason, there’s something fun about seeing more clinky things bouncing around.

Ah, but what about that muscle Wizard Gym-nerd who casts cantrips and Can-Trip people while laughing that he can sling Force Barrage as good as the AAA+++ Honor’s Evocation Valedictorian (who just got a big signing bonus for a lucrative career in blowing up armies instead of working at a fast—conjure-food tavern. Ya, that’s right *Chad*. Who’s the loser now!!!)

I charted out the HP growth of a typical 8hp class vs. a 6hp class if they start with the typical +1 CON (ignoring starting ancestry HP). This gives what the max effective HP a Wizard needs to achieve with their spells per level in a battle. There’s a widening difference of up to 20% more HP.

Shield spell really narrows the effective HP gap. Adding in RoE’s Glass Shield almost completely negates that gap (within +/- 1 to 2% of the 8hp martial). If a Wizard uses False Life at the beginning of the adventure, and then tries to sneak in Rousing Splash round 1 of the next battles, they’re pretty golden for the HP department.

And Shield/Glass Shield are also 1 action cantrips, so they’re easy to throw in with another spell while being infinite usage! No slots or feats required.

I’m personally most curious about what this Spell Protection Array is. My guess is a spellshape that creates a 1 round defensive location, but I wonder if it’s a physical defense or spell defense.

Thank you so much for sharing all of those details! You really helped me make sense out of a lot of the conflicting information that I...

My apologies for the info dumping! Overall resources are pretty scarce and something that's not really understood (even amongst Filipinos) is just how rich and diverse the different cultures are on the islands! A lot of the online resources are only a small fraction of the different stories/interpretations.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find a lot of those stories I grew up on online. I grew up on the book "Tales of the 7,000 Isles: Popular Filipino Folktales", which my grandmother was able to expound more on those stories. Not sure if it is still available or in print anymore. But there's a lot of fun stories: some heroic stories/epics both local/Indian-inspired, a Filipino version of Aladdin from the Muslim traders, nature stories such as why the sea is salty/why jellyfish don't have bones/why plants are where they are. A favorite of mine is the story of the race between the carabao and turtle. Similar to the the tortoise and the hare, but the lesson is different: the power of community (and trickery) vs. individual strength; not the "slow and steady wins the race".

I don’t know about Golarion language stylings, but I always pronounced Minata as “Mee-nah-ta” in my head.

Ya, it's a fictional word, in a fictional world. Just ever since they spoiled that it is a "Filipino inspired" place in a popular TTRPG, I kinda got giddy and jumpy for joy. Filipino languages are also more "staccato/choppy" and according to other folks sounds closer to "clucking". It's not exactly a guttural language, but like other Malayo-Polynesian languages, it has prominent usage of the 'glottal stop'. One of my Aunties mentioned how our family language (to other Filipinos) is described as sounding like "the chirping of birds in the trees".

To me (based on how they're pronouncing it), I expect the 'na' part to sound more like how we say "not" in American (Californian-accent?). More forceful/flat-downward and not elongated/stretched/rising. So more like "Me'-not'-ah'". Well, except it's a ta at the end. Unless it's one of those Aunties that add flair to everything, lol! But I'm just one person, so maybe someone else's experience is different!

Anyway sorry, I'll stop with the linguistic nonsense! I've been around a lot of Asian communities and it's exciting having your culture be seen for once (instead of treated lesser).

That makes a lot more sense now that my brain isn't migraine-addled.

So after a bit of research, I'm guessing that they were inspired by the myth of the Buwaya — a crocodile (or crocodilian dragon) that wears a box on its back. It captures people who are in the water, puts them in its box, and takes them to its underwater cave to snack on later. (It reminds me a bit of Grendel's mother.)

“Buwaya” just means crocodile in Tagalog. Bakunawa is just a mythical sea serpent/dragon that happens to crocodile-like, which is why it’s sometimes interchangeable. A Bakunawa is usually a buwaya, a buwaya is not a Bakunawa.

There’s also no one story. Every tribe (the larger language grouping) has different stories.

But stories of Bukanawa and buwaya abound throughout the Philippines, but may use different words since a lot of regional languages are retained. In my case, of my grandparents on both, only 1 is Tagalog. I think it’s buaya in Cebuano and…bukarot in Ilocano?

I grew up on some myths from my grandmother and one I remember is the story of Lam-Ang, an Ilocano mythical hero. Kinda like Hercules or Wu Kong. The art image shows him fighting a buwaya (crocodile) to save some farmers. Really lucky my grandmother saved those stories and shared it with us.

Though, I don’t really know much else. Most American-Filipinos are pretty disconnected from those kind of myths and stuff and most parents are more concerned about assimilating in than re-telling stories they’ve heard from the islands. And my experience is that city-folks look down on province folks who talk about dwendes and other “superstitious things” even though they’re afraid of going to the provinces and dealing with ghosts. Funny thing, a lot of Filipinos get Aswang and Manananggal mixed because of the Aswang film (something that annoyed my grandmother).

Edit: I also think the crown he’s wearing is in reference to those babaylan (tribal animist priests) divination drawings that puts a “crown” over the bakunawa’s head. But the character shown is in Valash Raj, but is likely from Minatan ancestry.

2nd edit: Something else that throws me off is the pronunciation of Minata. I know it’s a fictional word, but Filipino is a stress-based language. Meaning of words change depending on where you stress. For example Makati City. It’s pronounced Makāti City, but sometimes mistakenly pronounced as Makatī by visitors. Makāti means “low-tide” while Makatī means “itchy”. So visitors sometimes accidentally call it the “itchy city”. My mom made fun of me when I did that.

So shouldn’t it sound more like Mināta and not Minātā? (The ta at the end should sound shorter and not elongated. Also, the i in Minata should be a long ee).

Sorry if I’m being a language snob. It’s not often get to share Filipino stuff on a TTRPG forum. (Thanks Paizo! Much love!)

Kids: Ha! Rock beats paper!

Witch w/ Rock Familiar: Oh does it now?

I just thought of something hilarious (and possibly cruel):

A Goblin Witch…

…with the Inscribed One (Remastered Rune) patron and who has sent the goblin a hybrid horse-dog familiar that has Flowing Scripts (the familiar ability whenever an IO Witch uses their hex).

Very true.

We also know what every feat on the Witch’s Remaster does.

The only not directly named is Patron’s Claim, but that’s most likely the one shared by James Case where the patron reaches out of the familiar, grabs an enemy’s soul and slams enemies around dealing Spirit damage.

Sympathetic Strike’s text was seen even though the name wasn’t. We already know the improvements to Cauldron based on Double, Double. We’ve been told about Witch’s Armaments. Everything else is pretty much the same as Premaster.

Beyond class features and the other hex cantrips/focus spells, we mostly have the complete picture.