This sounds both like people trying to RAW the mechanics and munchkin-ing it out istead of going for RAI
as you said, the first one is easy to reign in as a combat only thing
for the second, my suggestion would be to also make it combat only with the addition of 'not your own blood' which fits the general magical logic of the class (you cant draw you own power, it is already yours)
Deriven Firelion wrote:
This information is new to me and makes everything about Lord of the Rings actively worse.
not to mention that the story tells us of one prototype while only kinda worked several years after its construction with a single person deciphering the process and then being subject to experiments for decades without anyone finding out the process before he fled and the only test subject the nexian mages had went missing I think it is safe to assume that automatons stay rare
require many materials, big effect on a large area, (arbritrary) additional limitations honestly, I do wonder why they are not just another type of ritual
While I dont dislike the idea (and havent seen the actual spells yet) it feels like the page space could have been better invested in...lets say additional archetypes or regular spells, that characters can just use and are relevant as more then a campaign mcguffing
Yep, as I told with the Magus some Pages ago Names are really hard to be definitive set within the world. It depends on a lot of factors, Not least of them the culture and the language the specific character grew up with. For some the 'necromancer' will be everything that influences dead and death with any Kind of magic
JiCi wrote:
You get me Magi have to first hit with an attack and then the enemy gets a save vs a secondary, maybe even tertiary attribute, depending on the buildand unlike full casters they also finish up at master spell proficiency and that later so we first need to hit with an attack
and since we have to reload the spellstrike we dont even have an advantage in action economy if we dont have extra feats or use a limited recource
I mean, the solution is simple:
Magus is literally just latin for a Mage
Might be different in other languages, never forget that while you use english for common, Golarion has a lot of different languages and even has discriptions for the sound of many of them I always did have a feeling that Magi had a distinct space within the lore, as there is for example a specific accademy for Magi in Kyonin (I want to say near greengold but I am not sure, was 1e stuff and had a Magus archetype there Greensting...something) But I can also imagine elves with their long lives and extensive study of magic having specific words for Magi, Wizards, Battlemages and other adjecent stuff but then Ulfen probably just use'Mage' for all of them. Except the ones living in Irrisen because the winter witches prefer to be distinct. Names for classes are always hard to pin down and in universe culture and languages do a lot of work on how they register for people. As languages were mentioned I can tell a little anecdote about those on top:
are we really derailing into a 'no more evil' discussion? Fine lets do this: (I put this in sub-points for anyone wanting to react to make it easier) 1) Saying things like that is really reductive. We have no alignment anymore but good and evil, order and chaos are clearly still things. I mean, there seems to be at least *SOME* sort of Karma involved that Pharasma and the Psychopomps use to assign the afterlife. 2) What we now have is an holy/unholy system which does not influence anyone, but if you get blessed or interact with aligned stuff often enough, it certainly racks up some karm in one of the two directions. 3) That does not mean that necromancy by default is unholy. Necromancy from the origin of the word is 'Speak with Dead', Seances and maybe a commune spell/ritual directed at ancestors. In the context of magic in pathfinder 2e it seems to be mostly the manipulation of life force - remember that pathfinder 2e before the remaster had heal tagged with necromancy? 4) There is a whole plane with rampant void energies out there, people can live there without having their sould smoldering or them all going to hell because of the ambient radiation. (Not saying that they are all healthy and there are certainly people like the Kayal who adapted and probably didnt have a very good time before) 5) Too much void energy seem still to influence the soul in some way, but it is fair to assume that the dosage of void energy in the creation of intelligent undead is on a whole different level as the minor levels from the netherworld that people seem to be able to shrug off more or less without big problems. 6) Most of the spells that summon or handle undead do not have the consecrated or unholy traits, which leads that while they are not exactly inherently nice, are probably also not exactly evil. 7) A necromancers thralls are created, last a minute and disperse. Compared to what happens in the gravelands that is hardly a drop in a full bucket 8) We do not have the final spell and its tags, but the animated thrall might work different then actual summoned/bound undead. Most necromancy so far seems to be domain of the divine, but as the Necromancer is an occult caster, things might look different here. I notice I strayed a little from my initial starting point tldr: there is good and evil, just no rules depiction; sanctification clears it up for some people, I dont think necromancers have to be evil or suffer a lot for their art (they certainly seem to have to learned advanced usage)
Hey people, you seem to not to be able to change each others mind
and let the thread here return to the discussion about impossible magic without arguing about the setting metaphysics
Errenor wrote:
If you are so worried about a remove curse thing eating through the finances, they might be a little tight in the first place But, as other mentioned before, there are enough ways around it, even though most of them are more on the storytelling site. The most typical way would be that the party is send on a quest to retrieve the ingredient by a magical alchemist or something. Second most typical way would be to get a priest of sufficient level to heal the character, either for doing a quest to earn it, or owning the priest/church in question a favor.
Of course, Rituals are always an option, a specified ritual might even be easy to execute - finding the 'how to' and the ingredients in turn, might also be a sidequest. Of course, there is the mostly organisatory measure to tell the gm 'I dont enjoy stories where my character is too much tied down by curses and the like, please consider how the enemies picked influence the adventure in the long term'
monk standces are basically advanced two-handed weapons
if you play a monk you should take 2+ dex boosts at the start of the game you start with expert proficiency in unarmed defense, thats +2 free AC
if you take only 2 you are at the same defensive level as basically every martial and grow a little faster if you take full 4 boosts you are ahead of the curve of every martial with champion and guardian at some point catching up (potentially getting slightly ahead on the cost of mobility) and dont forget that your mobility can also be leveraged for defense, another strength of the monk
Those are just monikers for them. There can be overlap. If I had to throw my lot in with one of them I still would go to asmodeus
Spoiler:
Wasnt he also rovagugs jailor? at least he helped to imprison the rough beast so he does occassionally something useful for everyone But generally, what was said is correct.
So they both can be decently fitting called that.
I wouldnt say its a shrödingers weapon situation while I get where it comes from, it seems pretty clear to me a fan is a fan and a fighting fan is a fighting fan while the last one can fulfill the functions of the first, it is always a weapon and the regular fan is usually mad eof light materials that are just not made to whack ot slice people with
Honestly, as a gm I would quickly put a stop to it as well Argument: fighting fans need lots of movement and buckler, no matter how well made, is going to limit that (and make the grip on the fan worse, also the buckler is going to cover half the fan) while RAW there is some wiggle room for shenanigans
while you are not at my table, I believe that many gms would argue similar and shut down attempts to play the rules like that (of course, there are always exceptions and I am sure some would be quite amused about it)after all, you are supposed to play the game, not the rules. as a note in 3 parts
My favourite take on Iado which was successfully used at my table is: Swashbuckler
that being said, those feats look fun, very tactical Suggestion for another item:
Another note:
there are surely ways to make them clumsy, off-guard, sickened and other using one of the not-so good saves
again, something that should not be done every combat, but can be used once in a while to make it easier for enemies to fight the optimized character
Sir Belmont the Valiant, II wrote:
you suggest that sounding like a standard tactic to deal with perceived high power of a character that is perfectly within the rule expectations if the shield gets destroyed because the player deemed it better to use it, its fine, if it gets destroyed because the dm decides it is a problem it leaves a bad aftertasty
It is a question of trust as much as of game design a disarmed sword can be picked up, a destroyed shield that just gets sniped turn one is out until at least the next combat dispelling haste is also a valid tactic - if it happens once in a while. But if it would happen every other combat or just every hard combat, it starts to feel like counterplay of course you now and then have to play out the weaknesses of the players, just as much as you have to give them opportunity to shine with their strengths The character uses the normal system math and is slightly optimized, which means most enemies still can hit them and if they fight against above party level threats they still gonna suffer
now and then disabling haste is valid, now and then disarming is valid, putting so much pressure on the tank that the shield breaks is valid Sniping the shield of the frontline tank and circumventing raw and rai to do so will leave the players with any number of negative emotions
Sir Belmont the Valiant, II wrote: Have the (Boss) monster target the shield, it should be broken (-2 AC) after the first hit. so the boss uses an action to invalidate a core of the players tactic the player will be annoyed at the very least even if pf would handle item attacking/damaging better then it does, if you just go in and snipe one of the core equipment parts, that would feel very bad for the player its basically the same as stealing the sword of a fighter or the alchemists satchel or a gunslingers rifle always consider both sides of such an action
that actually reminds me of an expanded dnd 3.5 class The truespeaker - was a mage, but used a skill check instead of spellslots. Repeating the same spell on the same target within a short time increased the DC, but they were basically an all day caster. Could easily be coupled to Class DC in 2e. And that in turn reminds me on the expanded book incarnum, where basically magic 'juice' could be shaped into pseudo magic items that basically all had a cantrip or passive effect and a strong active spell like effect if you undo the 'item'.
I think people tried already to convert the shifter. The way pf2 handles its math and abilities, it should be theoretically, easy enough to pull off. Give abilities to shapeshift to get new attacks and traits and special actions. Words of power was something I also found rather interesting,but is very hard to integrate as straightup alternative system. One would have to completely rework how the system interacts with spell slots.
While I am also annoyed by the ammount of stuff that is coming for 5e instead of literally anything else I have to say 2 things before we continue: 1. this might not be the entirely correct forum, but I am not sure because
I had a long day today, but I am sure other people would be more willing to say something if that whole block got split up into a few smaller chunks that are easier to digest
Okay, not in detail read through all the posts but a few things to the world that can be said and are likely good to know: 1) Technology: Many parts of the world act on a high or late medieval technology level, there are exceptions. Alkenstar in the Mana Wastes and Ustalav hav basically reached Victorian/Steampunk/Clockpunk Tech level and stuff like that can be found in trade centers (like Absalom) 1.1) Guns: The general baseline assumption for guns in this world is cartrige based, break action, smoothbore guns - which is realistically the closest to the mechanical side of how they function 2) Recources: Golarion has a decent ammount of natural recources that can be found roughly where expected. The world also has access to recources in multiple ways that are not quite as natural.
3) Air travel: It is still rare and only availible in a few places. One of the simplest reasons why it is still rare is just what you find in the air: Next to birds you go hippogriffs, griffons, drakes in different sizes, real dragons, rocs, air elementals and the occassional outsider. Despire being above a lot of the usual trouble, travel is not neccessarily safer since the things that you meet that are dangerous are *very dangerous*
4) Ancestries around the world: There is no real good rule of thumb here. Some settlements in some areas have actual population numbers, but things can easily skew in one way or another.
5) Classes around the world: There is little guideline here. Usually you can just apply what seems logical to you, there are a few pointers though:
a few more general tips: 1) If you come from pathfinder 1e, treat this as a new system. You have to unlearn a whole lot anyway, easiest way of dealing with it is pretending its a new system - it virtually is 2) encounter level: no matter if you want a heist or a dungeon, there are two easy ways to set it: look at the level of the party or just set a level ton the place.
3) Sustainability: As was said before, focus spells and the heal wounds skill are your new friends here. No more lugging around a fifty charge want of a minor heal spell because its just the cheapest option (never liked that anyway)
Came recently up in my campaign. One of the party members is a geniekin and theorized they might go to the elemental planes after they die instead of the 'regular' afterlife.
So what happens if elementally hypercharged beings or straightup elementals dies? a) they go to pharasma like everybody else
exequiel759 wrote:
hmmm...how about an ability instead that takes all those crappy d4 brawling weapons (yup, just checked, ther is not a single brawling weapon in the AoN that has more then d4) and gives them an extra die size (and maybe a little something on top like the grapple trait if they are simple)
I played the first games of the series and I think Clank is much better represented by either a clockwork familiar, possibly using familiar master
another possibility, more for dual class alternate rules, would be to combine the summoner and inventor
alchemical ammunition is made as a single bullet
thinking logicly (which I know not always applies) weapons with a magazine probably have no point to really enter special ammunition, so that would mean going ahead and out of combat removing a regular shot and then filling it with the special ammunition in question, which would make the loading of the ammo just part of loading the magazine, but of course comes with the disadvantage of having less flexibility in its use
James Jacobs wrote:
Honestly, I was a little disappointed that she was not listed in Divine Mysteries. And that she was not listed in the following expanded list of deities and similar powerful entities
QuidEst wrote:
Then they need to make some other limitation on top even if that limits the utility, that is what expansive spellstrike would be for then (restoring some or all of it)or add the incapacitation tag to spells that deal (only) status effects there are ways to work around it
My bigest worry about the reprint of magus is that spellstrike will not be updated *enough* interaction with save spells is awkward and we have a notibly diminished number of attack spells I advocated for it before, but I will do so again:
I dont mind if the spell just goes kaputt in case of a missed attack, that would be the disadvantage of the otherwise improved action economy (If that wont be the case I will certainly homebrew it for my tables, but the current state of spellstrike feels just awkward)
Okay, my view on things as someone who loves to experiment with builds and gamemasters a lot 1) Medium armor is good, light also, if your campaign goes high level, picking up heavy armor with a feat is a misinvestment as heavy gives you +1 ac over medium, -5ft movementspeed but your proficiency lacks behind by -2 1.1) Light armor has the advantage of being cheaper in the early levels and giving a better saving throw, heavy armors can compensate for that but you need an archetype to really use them properly 2) as said before, tower shields and similar are too action intensive (and possibly slow you down), you are going to be action starved anyway and likely have to use your focus spell for shield raising (or at least want to do that as often as possible for the action economy)
3) imaginary weapon is arguibly the strongest spell you can regulary use for your spellstrike, in fact is so good that there are people forbidding the archetype for your class wwith houserules and there are rumors of possible spell nerfs 4) Spellstrike is build with attack spells in mind, we do have enough of those but just in case you should check with your gm on how he rules expansive spellstrike in particular, using the spellstrike to deliver a saving throw spell is not quite as effective in the current ruling, but the system has a certain leaning towards those 5) I would advise against the guardian archetype *except* you get specifically the shield raise taunt
teachmehowto wrote: I'm relatively new to the Pathfinder universe and I've been doing a lot of research on Nocticula and Shelyn for an upcoming campaign since they overlap as patrons of art/artist and just curious what others may think. It seems to me like Shelyn's focus is more on technical perfection and conventional beauty when it comes to art and Nocticula focuses more on the artists themselves and on unconventional artworks. So I guess my question is more on the nuances between the two and what might be considered under whose purview since art is so subjective. I also haven't seen much on the relationship between these two given this overlap. Two deities having similar or even the same areas of concern is not a rarity In divine Mysteries the in universe author even comments on that with the context of multiple moon deities and how the moon looked different depending on whom they were closer tooor two major sun deities (Desna in Avistan, Shizuru in the Dragon empires) Overlaps can happen even for big things - it is more that they are linked to the underlying concept of those things, enabling them to tap into the power (via domains, for example) There are also deities and fiends who are worshipped on differnt planets
In universe, the divine energies are complicated aligned, so the most surprising things can be either unique, or be around multiple times as area of concern for multiple gods (which also in turn makes it easy to think up your own homebrew gods and inject them into the setting)
consider also this: the high grade of duskwood is probably the heartwood, so to be able to cut a tree you need to get a tool with at least 8, possibly more hardness
so to get that on a 'big scale', which is still restricted to mostly 1 big forest on 1 continent in the whole world, which on top is guarded by fey, werewolves, (magical) beasts and other stuff
the terming of extracting duskwood on a 'big scale' must be weighed carefully
Dragon disciple is back? neat now I can put more dragon in my dragon by playing a Kobold with Dragonblood heritate, picking additional draconic kobold feats, be a draconic sorcerer with draconic acolyte archetype
make way dnd, if I go dungeoneering I am fitting in more dragon per square cube then you ever could
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